RANT HERE thread

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SkiOtter said:
They are still supervised by a DO/MD.
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This is highly dependent. They now have full independent practice authority in one state and are pushing for more. And in most states their “supervision” is extremely minimal. PAs have much better education than NPs and actually are prime to be fantastic physician extenders if they are actually supervised properly. The problems are that a. they aren’t most of the time, and b. many of them don’t want to be.

MLPs simply do not have the education to practice independently. My friend just graduated PA school and is going to work in primary care. I asked her if she was nervous, and she said not really because there isn’t that much to know for primary care. They don’t know what they don’t know.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
This is highly dependent. They now have full independent practice authority in one state and are pushing for more. And in most states their “supervision” is extremely minimal. PAs have much better education than NPs and actually are prime to be fantastic physician extenders if they are actually supervised properly. The problems are that a. they aren’t most of the time, and b. many of them don’t want to be.

MLPs simply do not have the education to practice independently. My friend just graduated PA school and is going to work in primary care. I asked her if she was nervous, and she said not really because there isn’t that much to know for primary care. They don’t know what they don’t know.
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Ugh. I argue there's the most to know in primary care, it is the starting point for everything. You have to know what you might be dealing with so you can refer appropriately. I don't want to say it is the hardest job, but it definitely requires the broadest knowledge base.
 
DVMDream said:
Ugh. I argue there's the most to know in primary care, it is the starting point for everything. You have to know what you might be dealing with so you can refer appropriately. I don't want to say it is the hardest job, but it definitely requires the broadest knowledge base.
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Yeah I don’t want to just turn this thread into a rant about MLPs thread, but there are so many studies showing they cost patients more money, order way more unnecessary, and are 20x more likely to prescribe opioids than physicians. Also under the sunshine act, NPs don’t have to disclose payments from pharmaceutical companies and are more likely to prescribe expensive and unnecessary medications.

Okay, rant over. I promise. I just really hate seeing patients harmed and given ****ty care in the name of making corporations money and the ego of some MLPs who wish they had MD/DO after their names but don’t.
 
Elkhart said:
Found out last night that I have a family member in TX who is currently in the ICU with COVID-19 and is not doing well. So that sucks.

I'm quickly approaching utter frustration over this virus at this point, between having to deal with it at work, in my family, and constantly hearing and reading about it. I wouldn't feel quite so exasperated, maybe, if people would actually care about others and do all that they can to help slow the spread instead of waxing lyrical about their "freedoms" to be a dingus and not follow common sense public health guidance. I'm tired of getting harassed for wearing a mask in public and thinking twice about gathering for Thanksgiving because I may have been exposed at work and don't want to take the chance of potentially passing it along to others. It's really hard to want to continue to care and do my best to limit contact with others when nobody else seems to have any shred of empathy anymore, at least where I live (and that's assuming that they ever truly did).
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Yep totally get you. I hope your family member gets better. I had a family member get it, but he didn’t make it. The frustration I have with how selfish and narcissistic our country is has only gotten worse.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
Yep totally get you. I hope your family member gets better. I had a family member get it, but he didn’t make it. The frustration I have with how selfish and narcissistic our country is has only gotten worse.
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I think scientists and allies should fight an information war against the misinformation spreaders and conspiracy theorists on social media. Because the problem is otherwise going to be a lot worse with antivax sentiment rapidly becoming the norm.
 
Lawpy said:
I think scientists and allies should fight an information war against the misinformation spreaders and conspiracy theorists on social media. Because the problem is otherwise going to be a lot worse with antivax sentiment rapidly becoming the norm.
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Yep. While the rest of the world is advancing and embracing scientific discovery, our country is running as far away from science and evidence as possible.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
Yep. While the rest of the world is advancing and embracing scientific discovery, our country is running as far away from science and evidence as possible.
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Never have more truer words been spoken. After visiting S. Korea a few years ago I was amazed by the difference...
 
MixedAnimals77 said:
Never have more truer words been spoken. After visiting S. Korea a few years ago I was amazed by the difference...
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Or Australia. Cervical cancer is on pace to be a rare disease (<4/100,000 cases) there thanks to the HPV vaccine. Meanwhile here, we’re like “tHe VaCcInE wIlL mAkE mY dAuGhTeR a SlUt”
 
Lawpy said:
I think scientists and allies should fight an information war against the misinformation spreaders and conspiracy theorists on social media. Because the problem is otherwise going to be a lot worse with antivax sentiment rapidly becoming the norm.
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I do my best to post my own statuses about the statistics and the gravity of the situation. But commenting on people’s statuses or replying to people on sites like Instagram are just exercises in futility. We’re coming at this from an educated standpoint understanding that facts are facts. They, on the other hand, are not. Presenting them with facts will fall on deaf ears. There is always an excuse.

For example: There have been over 260,000 deaths in the US alone. “That’s over reported and they’re just labeling other deaths as COVID to get more money for hospitals. Also comorbidities” No, just because someone had an underlying condition doesn’t mean COVID didn’t kill them. And hospitals are not making more money from reporting COVID deaths. You’re confusing the program that was put in place to help hospitals most heavily hit by COVID (provides source). “Well of course you believe that. You’ve been brainwashed by the liberal mainstream media.” No, I’ve learned most of this in school and my resources our the world’s most trusted medical journals. “So you trust big Pharma? Those journals are all run by big Pharma.”

No matter what you say, no matter how it’s presented, the goal posts are always moved. Or they simply look facts in the eye and call them lies. I’ve always been a fairly cynical person. But this past year, especially the election, has made me far more cynical. I truly believe that at least a third of the people in our country are lost causes.
 
ajs513 said:
I do my best to post my own statuses about the statistics and the gravity of the situation. But commenting on people’s statuses or replying to people on sites like Instagram are just exercises in futility. We’re coming at this from an educated standpoint understanding that facts are facts. They, on the other hand, are not. Presenting them with facts will fall on deaf ears. There is always an excuse.

For example: There have been over 260,000 deaths in the US alone. “That’s over reported and they’re just labeling other deaths as COVID to get more money for hospitals. Also comorbidities” No, just because someone had an underlying condition doesn’t mean COVID didn’t kill them. And hospitals are not making more money from reporting COVID deaths. You’re confusing the program that was put in place to help hospitals most heavily hit by COVID (provides source). “Well of course you believe that. You’ve been brainwashed by the liberal mainstream media.” No, I’ve learned most of this in school and my resources our the world’s most trusted medical journals. “So you trust big Pharma? Those journals are all run by big Pharma.”

No matter what you say, no matter how it’s presented, the goal posts are always moved. Or they simply look facts in the eye and call them lies. I’ve always been a fairly cynical person. But this past year, especially the election, has made me far more cynical. I truly believe that at least a third of the people in our country are lost causes.
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Yes, it is very difficult. The moving goalposts is part of their tactic too. They will move them until you get frustrated, and the second you say anything that is not perfectly calm and logical, they will call that a personal attack and use it as “proof” that you have no argument and are wrong.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
Yes, it is very difficult. The moving goalposts is part of their tactic too. They will move them until you get frustrated, and the second you say anything that is not perfectly calm and logical, they will call that a personal attack and use it as “proof” that you have no argument and are wrong.
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My new argument is that COVID is now the third leading cause of death behind cancer and heart-related causes. It doesn’t help with the moving goalposts, but it hammers the point home for people who understand but are a little skeptical. Maybe when the stats are released on the number of deaths in the US in 2020 and we see how many excess deaths there were despite lockdowns, people will understand.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
I had 26 Ws and 3 Fs on my transcript, plus like 5 different schools cause I kept transferring. Now I’m an MS2 finishing up preclinicals in med school. **** happens. You get knocked down, you just get up again.

I realize this is vettie territory, but I still wanted to contribute. Also veteran sounds kind of like veterinarian.
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Doesn't matter that you're MS2 and not vet. Still a true and relevant story.

FWIW, @thathorsegirl, I failed out of college as a punk kid. In the middle of failing out of college I went to the U of MN for one semester and received a GPA of 0. So... failed out of my main school and had a GPA of 0 from UMN.

When I went to apply to UMN vet school, like any school, they required transcripts from any school attended. So I had to send UMN a transcript from UMN with a GPA of 0 on it. (In addition to transcripts from the other school that I actually got tossed out of ..... twice.)

So, yanno, stuff happens. Now I'm an ER doc making as much as many clinical specialists.

You can recover in life, most of the time, with enough dedicated effort and time.
 
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supershorty said:
I had a DO tell me that my torn rotator cuff (that ultimately required surgery) was "just the way god made [me]."

It has made me, unfairly IMO, very leery of DOs.
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I have a strong build-in bias against DOs. I had to push back very hard against myself recently when my son had to have surgery and his surgeon was a DO.

My instinct was to be a dick and go find an MD, but the DO's credentials were good, he is well-respected, he has the background to support his expertise, his bedside manner was decent, and he tolerated my (admittedly dickish) questions.

My bias is because of the underpinnings of it - the whole concept of evaluating all pathology starting from the bone is just silly. But intellectually I know contemporary DOs receive a solid education and are probably generally on par with MDs.

SkiOtter said:
They are still supervised by a DO/MD.
Click to expand...

Well. They are supposed to be supervised by a DO/MD. Whether or not that supervision is effectively implemented in all cases ..... I doubt it.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
Yeah I don’t want to just turn this thread into a rant about MLPs thread, but there are so many studies showing they cost patients more money, order way more unnecessary, and are 20x more likely to prescribe opioids than physicians. Also under the sunshine act, NPs don’t have to disclose payments from pharmaceutical companies and are more likely to prescribe expensive and unnecessary medications.

Okay, rant over. I promise. I just really hate seeing patients harmed and given ****ty care in the name of making corporations money and the ego of some MLPs who wish they had MD/DO after their names but don’t.
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I only know my limited personal experience, but having had a PA at one point and knowing someone very well who became one ....

My perception is that they are much more "flow chart" oriented to their care. As in, "patient presents for clinical signs X, you automatically order up diagnostics Y" kind of care. No real thought process to the whole thing. Much less understanding of the underlying pathophysiology, potential impact of comorbidities, etc.

I would be extremely hesitant to entrust my care to a PA based on my own limited experiences. Just too much concern that they aren't going to thoroughly evaluate my health.

Kinda like my ICU techs. They're fantastic at their job, but everything is reflex to them. Patient is acting up - they want trazodone orders. Never mind if that might not be appropriate for some reason. They aren't thinking about the little 'gotchas' and whether drug X plays well with drug Y. They just know that when they have a grumpy dog in ICU they want to give it trazodone. I feel like PAs are a little like that. It's all recipe-based medicine.
 
LetItSnow said:
Shoot, Lupin, we've had lots of people in our hospital test positive. Just come work here. 😉
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haha! Somehow I think the point is for me to quarantine so if I was exposed, I don't spread it about! I feel horrible as we basically function as day emergency for the area and have been dealing with a lot of local clinics' overflow that they can't handle. Our docs also are crucial in covering eclinic shifts, so this next week or so will be hairy for all. 🙁
 
LetItSnow said:
I only know my limited personal experience, but having had a PA at one point and knowing someone very well who became one ....

My perception is that they are much more "flow chart" oriented to their care. As in, "patient presents for clinical signs X, you automatically order up diagnostics Y" kind of care. No real thought process to the whole thing. Much less understanding of the underlying pathophysiology, potential impact of comorbidities, etc.

I would be extremely hesitant to entrust my care to a PA based on my own limited experiences. Just too much concern that they aren't going to thoroughly evaluate my health.

Kinda like my ICU techs. They're fantastic at their job, but everything is reflex to them. Patient is acting up - they want trazodone orders. Never mind if that might not be appropriate for some reason. They aren't thinking about the little 'gotchas' and whether drug X plays well with drug Y. They just know that when they have a grumpy dog in ICU they want to give it trazodone. I feel like PAs are a little like that. It's all recipe-based medicine.
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Yes, it’s this exactly. There is good data that they can be very useful when adequately trained and when appropriately supervised by physicians, but even in those situations they provide inadequate care up to 45% of the time—which is why they need supervision.

In my experience, PAs are much better. They have a much more solid medical knowledge foundation that preps them for good training in whatever specialty they are working in (under supervision of course). I can almost always tell when an NP is caring for someone because they will be inappropriately managed and loaded on tons of meds that are inappropriate and shouldn’t be on the same patient.
 
ajs513 said:
I do my best to post my own statuses about the statistics and the gravity of the situation. But commenting on people’s statuses or replying to people on sites like Instagram are just exercises in futility. We’re coming at this from an educated standpoint understanding that facts are facts. They, on the other hand, are not. Presenting them with facts will fall on deaf ears. There is always an excuse.

For example: There have been over 260,000 deaths in the US alone. “That’s over reported and they’re just labeling other deaths as COVID to get more money for hospitals. Also comorbidities” No, just because someone had an underlying condition doesn’t mean COVID didn’t kill them. And hospitals are not making more money from reporting COVID deaths. You’re confusing the program that was put in place to help hospitals most heavily hit by COVID (provides source). “Well of course you believe that. You’ve been brainwashed by the liberal mainstream media.” No, I’ve learned most of this in school and my resources our the world’s most trusted medical journals. “So you trust big Pharma? Those journals are all run by big Pharma.”

No matter what you say, no matter how it’s presented, the goal posts are always moved. Or they simply look facts in the eye and call them lies. I’ve always been a fairly cynical person. But this past year, especially the election, has made me far more cynical. I truly believe that at least a third of the people in our country are lost causes.
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This is exactly my (hopefully soon to be former) workplace.
 
I cannot begin to express how upset I am with my mother, let’s call her Leslie. Fortunately I do not live with her. She’s kind of a narcissist and her home life is toxic so I haven’t lived with her in almost 2 years because I don’t need that in my life. Leslie decided it was a good idea to go see her girlfriend, let’s call her Jane, in wisconsin for thanksgiving. I call Jane, leslie’s sugar mama because it’s kind of what she is. Leslie was in wisconsin from last Wednesday until Sunday morning. Sunday evening, Jane started showing symptoms of covid. She didn’t think to tell my brother, let’s call him Benjamin, that her girlfriend she just was with for several days is now showing signs and is getting tested for covid. She didn’t think to mention any of this to Benjamin before he decided that he would spend a few days with her. Benjamin just came home (I live with my other mom and Benjamin splits his time between houses) yesterday evening and apparently Leslie started showing symptoms yesterday and didn’t think to tell anyone. She got a positive covid test this evening. Now Benjamin has been directly exposed and I have been indirectly exposed and all of this could have been prevented if she had just said something. It puts me in a bind with work as I do not know if I will be able to work tomorrow. Also she’s been a nurse practitioner for a long time so you would think she would know. I don’t think I’ve been more upset or disappointed with her in my life.

TL;DR my mom is a nurse practitioner and tested positive for covid today. She didn’t tell my brother before he went to her house that she had been with someone who had recently shown symptoms. Now I’ve been indirectly exposed and it’s affecting my ability to work.
 
PippyPony said:
In general, I feel like this is especially not the time to be belittling others who work in the medical profession or playing the "whose degree is better" game.

Really disappointing to see those kinds of attitudes here on this forum, actually.
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I have no issues with DOs. I've had the best experiences with them.

I won't change my mind on NPs and PAs though. I'm not saying they don't have a place in medicine, but that place isn't and shouldn't be replacing a doctor (MD/DO). It isn't a "who's degree is better" it is that a PA/NP does not equal that of an MD in education.

It would be like comparing a vet tech with a specialty license to a DVM, sure that tech is more knowledgeable with that advanced license but they still aren't and don't have the education of a DVM.
 
PippyPony said:
*deleted grumpy post about disappointing prejudices surrounding DOs and PAs*

Take a second and think about who you might be calling bad at their jobs. Lots of us here have friends and family with those degrees.
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PippyPony said:
In general, I feel like this is especially not the time to be belittling others who work in the medical profession or playing the "whose degree is better" game.

Really disappointing to see those kinds of attitudes here on this forum, actually.
Click to expand...

Completely agree.
 
PippyPony said:
*deleted grumpy post about disappointing prejudices surrounding DOs and PAs*

Take a second and think about who you might be calling bad at their jobs. Lots of us here have friends and family with those degrees.
Click to expand...

First, you clearly chose to ignore the part where I talked about recognizing my own bias and moving past that to trust my son's health to someone I had a prior bias to avoid. You're cherry picking. So if you want to talk about prejudices, you should ask why you're cherry picking from my post(s).

Second, I was very clear that I was speaking from my own experience. If there are PAs and NPs out there practicing excellent medicine within the confines and scope of their training and medical limitations, great on them! I have had repeated experiences where that isn't the case, and it makes me naturally cautious about extending trust in my health to a PA or NP, who has - by definition - less training than an MD. There is nothing wrong acknowledging that. YMMV. I was very clear to state I was talking from "my experience" and "my perception."

If you feel comfortable trusting your health to someone with a two-year post-undergrad degree, that's awesome. That's all that matters. For my part, I feel that is insufficient training. On top of it, my perception is that the oversight that is supposed to be in place is often not as thorough as it should be. Couple those together, and I would not be comfortable trusting that person with my health. Is what it is. You can go see a PA/NP and feel great about it. I can hunt around for an MD. Lucky us.

I said nothing about anyone's degree being "better". I'm not sure where that came from.
 
I board 3 retired ponies for their owners, and last night the 28 year old banged his eye on something and somehow luxated his lens +/- retinal detachment and will need an enucleation :arghh: I know it's not my fault or anything, but still feels pretty bad that this lovely old fellow got hurt under my care... silly ponies. I hope it wasn't one of my idiots that did it to him :annoyed:
 
awesomenessity said:
I board 3 retired ponies for their owners, and last night the 28 year old banged his eye on something and somehow luxated his lens +/- retinal detachment and will need an enucleation :arghh: I know it's not my fault or anything, but still feels pretty bad that this lovely old fellow got hurt under my care... silly ponies. I hope it wasn't one of my idiots that did it to him :annoyed:
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Oh noooooo that’s so sucky nessie 🙁
Hoping for quick healing for him!!!!
 
Thanks to Covid-surges (and many colleagues and co-workers becoming ill), I'm spending LOTS of my time at work.

I have not been able to spend quality time with my cat ... and I miss my sweet little tabby cat! 😻

I also miss the SDN vetties - all of you! 😍

Today, I'm staying home ... and I'm gonna love my cat, and I'll catch-up with my loved ones, and I'll take a long walk outdoors to enjoy the sunshine and fresh air.

It will be an awesome day! 🙂
 
I wish there's a good covid tracing app or sonething because it feels we're going in blind. I had moderate symptoms a few days ago out of nowhere which is weird because i always go out wearing a mask and keeping well more than 6 ft. Luckily i recovered fast but it's always on back of mind whether i inadvertently became immune to covid after that nasty flu in March. Still going to end up quarantining anyways which sucks

Man i wish this pandemic is over already. The whole year (starting late 2019) royally sucked
 
Lawpy said:
I wish there's a good covid tracing app or sonething because it feels we're going in blind. I had moderate symptoms a few days ago out of nowhere which is weird because i always go out wearing a mask and keeping well more than 6 ft. Luckily i recovered fast but it's always on back of mind whether i inadvertently became immune to covid after that nasty flu in March. Still going to end up quarantining anyways which sucks

Man i wish this pandemic is over already. The whole year (starting late 2019) royally sucked
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Feel better Lawpy!

Don't let quarantine get you down; as long as you're feeling ok, use it as an opportunity to loaf around and discover new books, TV, or a crafty hobby (as long as it's stuff you don't have to shop for).
 
Stupid general vent because people can be annoying sometimes. Why are so many people resistant to the idea that vet students and vets know more about animals than them? Especially when it comes to animal behavior. I realize that it’s tough to come to terms with the fact that something you’ve been doing for your whole life is actually wrong, and your dog has been telling you this whole time that they don’t like what you’re doing, but come on. Wouldn’t it be really concerning if the people who devote their entire lives, several years of education, and hundreds of thousands of dollars to learning about animals didn’t know more than the average person about animals?

And like I said, I get that they get defensive. But it’s just annoying trying to help people and they try to bring you down and convince you that you have no idea what you’re talking about.
 
ajs513 said:
Stupid general vent because people can be annoying sometimes. Why are so many people resistant to the idea that vet students and vets know more about animals than them? Especially when it comes to animal behavior. I realize that it’s tough to come to terms with the fact that something you’ve been doing for your whole life is actually wrong, and your dog has been telling you this whole time that they don’t like what you’re doing, but come on. Wouldn’t it be really concerning if the people who devote their entire lives, several years of education, and hundreds of thousands of dollars to learning about animals didn’t know more than the average person about animals?

And like I said, I get that they get defensive. But it’s just annoying trying to help people and they try to bring you down and convince you that you have no idea what you’re talking about.
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People don’t like to be told they're wrong or have been mistreating their animals their whole lives so they try and make you feel dumb instead.
 
ajs513 said:
Stupid general vent because people can be annoying sometimes. Why are so many people resistant to the idea that vet students and vets know more about animals than them? Especially when it comes to animal behavior. I realize that it’s tough to come to terms with the fact that something you’ve been doing for your whole life is actually wrong, and your dog has been telling you this whole time that they don’t like what you’re doing, but come on. Wouldn’t it be really concerning if the people who devote their entire lives, several years of education, and hundreds of thousands of dollars to learning about animals didn’t know more than the average person about animals?

And like I said, I get that they get defensive. But it’s just annoying trying to help people and they try to bring you down and convince you that you have no idea what you’re talking about.
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My dad is the absolute worst for not understanding I WENT TO VET SCHOOL :bang: Every time something happens with the horses and I text him to let him know he starts giving me advice... lol. It drives me insane!
 
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Lawpy said:
I wish there's a good covid tracing app or sonething because it feels we're going in blind. I had moderate symptoms a few days ago out of nowhere which is weird because i always go out wearing a mask and keeping well more than 6 ft. Luckily i recovered fast but it's always on back of mind whether i inadvertently became immune to covid after that nasty flu in March. Still going to end up quarantining anyways which sucks

Man i wish this pandemic is over already. The whole year (starting late 2019) royally sucked
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I live in MD and we have a statewide app that uses Bluetooth pings to keep anonymity. If you get a positive test, you report it on the app and it notifies anyone you've been in contact with that they were exposed. Only problem is you have to trust that people will actually download the app and actually report their test results. It's called MD COVID Alert.
 
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