RANT HERE thread

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end "veterinary assistant" schools
So real. Back home there’s a big vet assistant program so it became the norm to only hire assistants who have it. It does not provide the education necessary to be a tech and it’s entirely unnecessary for actual assistant duties. Massive scam to make people pay for a $10000 degree (yes, it’s more expensive than a year of undergrad at any school in the same province) to make $14/hr not doing what they were told they were preparing for because, surprise, technicians exist!
 
Reasons why midlevels are bad:
1. They have destroyed human medicine. Ask most MDs and DOs and they will tell you to try as best you can to avoid them.
2. Vet med is shoved into 4 years, it really could easily be double that length, we barely scratch the surface of medicine in vet med during our training. We already learn a ton of breadth with very little depth as our basic veterinary school training. There is no way to truncate this.
3. Midlevels are trained to follow flow charts more or less. If something is "off" they don't have the training/knowledge/experience to pick up on that right off.
4. Animals are masters at hiding serious medical issues, it takes a lot of training to start picking up on the more subtle cues and indications that something is very wrong. Something that can't be taught in 2 years, really hard to even teach in the current 4 years.


The education/cost issue:
1. As mentioned above how do you truncate down an already very broad veterinary education from 4 years to 2 years?
2. The education won't be that much shorter, you still have to take all the same pre-reqs, it only shaves off 2 years of vet school.
3. The cost, the current estimated cost for tuition they are suggest for veterinary mid-level courses is insane. It will still cost 150Kish to become a veterinary mid-level
4. There isn't that big of a gap between vet tech pay and DVM pay, what exactly are they planning on paying a mid-level? Will this be a salared position or an hourly position?

The biggest reasons are the finanical ones.
Coporate medicine LOVES the idea of a veterinary mid-level. Why? Money.

A veterinary mid-level will make less money than a DVM.
They can replace veterinarians with mid-levels and only have to hire a few veterinarians to "supervise" the mid-levels.
Having worked for corporate, they will 100% have mid-levels working while there are no veterinarians on premise to "superivse", they will expect you to be able to "supervise" on your day off aka "well you can review what they did when you come in the next day".
This will effectively make it so that veterinarians are pushed toward specialization because the "mid-levels" will be doing all the GP jobs and it will be harder to actually find a job as a GP veterinarian. Most veterinarians still go into vet school because they want to be GPS, they want to give vaccines, see puppies/kittens, create the life-long relationship with a client. Removing this from veterinarians will actually have more vets leaving the field.

Legal issues/things that matter as the DVM dealing with mid-levels:
1. There is currently no developed licensing for a veterinary mid-level
2. There is no currently developed liability for a veterinary mid-level, the current proposed recommendation is that the supervising DVM be responsible. That means any errors, mistakes, etc made by a veterinary mid-level would fall onto the supervising DVM. If you think practicing medicine is stressful, try being responsible for the medicine you practice AND the medicine someone else practices on an animal that you have not physically seen/touched, depending on how the corporation/clinic allows the dice to roll. Even if you are in the building you don't have time to see ALL of your patients/cases AND put hands on ALL of the mid-levels patients/cases.
3. Even in human medicine if a mid-level makes an error or causes your death your recourse is minimal you have to go after the "supervising" MD/DO even in states where mid-levels have been given autonomy to practice alone. Still doesn't matter, you have minimal to no recourse.

And finally as @Trilt stated, we have severly underutilized and underpaid our veterinary technician staff.

There is zero reason for a veterinary mid-level when we are still not utilizing our veterinary technician staff to their full abilities. Another aspect on this is the absolute zero consistency in veterinary technician licensing across the country. Also we have got to STOP hiring veterinary assistants and end "veterinary assistant" schools. Assistants are often utilized in some clinics as "on the job trained technicians" we have to become serious on that a vet tech is a very specfic position in the clinic, with schooling, licensing, etc and that we have to stop yanking high school kids off the street and plopping them into the clinic as "veterinary assistants" and pretending they are anything equivalent to a trained and licensed vet tech.

Also, there are already veterinary technician specialty licenses as well that I don't think get discussed about/utilized near as much as they should be.

I could probably keep going but I will stop here.

********************/soapbox****************************

Thank you for taking the time to give me such a detailed and informative response. I definitely understand everything you just said and agree with your points. Definitely seems like a bad idea and very predatory in nature.

I am *crying in vet assistant who was definitely plucked from the streets as a HS kid in a clinic without an RVT* lol
 
Thank you for taking the time to give me such a detailed and informative response. I definitely understand everything you just said and agree with your points. Definitely seems like a bad idea and very predatory in nature.

I am *crying in vet assistant who was definitely plucked from the streets as a HS kid in a clinic without an RVT* lol

I was also the HS kid plucked off the street and tossed into the vet assistant/OTJ trained tech.
 
The discussion for adding a mid-level position to vet med has been engaged by the AVMA and it's just disappointing. Multiple states have also been inquiring and (at least in my state) the answer has been a solid "No!" If those most affected by this change are repeatedly saying this is a bad idea, why do our "leaders" continue to approach this idea?
The human medical field is already under a lot of fire for this, so I’m not sure why they would think it’s a great idea (other than it’s an excuse to cut costs).
 
Also I am vehemently against the concept and think the LMU program is basically a cash grab. In general, we have PAINFULLY underutilized staff in our technicians already - especially in general practice. Utilize them for client education, basic procedures, etc, and you can be massively more efficient.
Agreed, definitely a cash grab. As a funny aside of sketchy educational ventures, during this current cycle and last cycle, Midwestern told students they rejected from the vet med program to apply to the pharmacy program. 🙄 Not shady at all.
Ugh. Unfortunate.
 
As a funny aside of sketchy educational ventures, during this current cycle and last cycle, Midwestern told students they rejected from the vet med program to apply to the pharmacy program. 🙄
What in the world
 
I’m pissed off at the world and ready to throw hands with god personally. My mentor in veterinary medicine was killed in a car accident yesterday after driving over the median into oncoming traffic. My first thought was maybe it was suicide or he just fell asleep.

It’s not fair, that the good ones keep being taken. He was going to help with vet school, and keep teaching me. I was looking forward to working for him again in the summer. Now his practice is gone and everyone is left wondering how to pick up the pieces. I feel broken
 
I don't even know what to feel or say today and I just wish I was back home to be with my family.

First bummer of the day was shelter club elections. I am very passionate about shelter medicine and I really wanted an officer role. Today we got an email from shelter club with just a poll of who to vote for. They never asked us to write a blurb, post a quick video, or speak at the last meeting about why we want an officer position (all other clubs did this). I'm aware these things are typically popularity contests anyways, but now I don't even stand a chance. If I knew this was how they were going to do it, I wouldn't have bothered.

Then my parents called me to tell me that my newborn niece is being taken off of life support. I am extremely heartbroken and want nothing more than to be there for my sister (who is across the country from me since I moved for vet school). I miss her so much. I don't know how to help her or show her I love her from here while she is dealing with saying goodbye to her child and a crazy amount of hospital bills.

And then I saw a lil kitten with a URI posted in the group I foster for. I am a sucker for caring for sick babies and thought helping him out would cheer me up. I could keep him separated from my other kittens easily while he was being treated. The vet examined him, told me he also has ringworm, and that I shouldn't take him in since I have 4 pets in my apartment including a FIP kitten who doesn't need any more troubles. I agree that it's for the best, but we couldn't find another foster or rescue group to take him in. So he's most likely going to be euthanized.

Is it really only Monday??
 
Sigh. I really thought this might be my first 4.0 semester. My GPA is slightly above average, but mediocre science (3.45)

After I spoke to a school’s admissions director, they advised me to submit my fall grades if they were a 4.0 to prove I could handle a more rigorous course load (I’m taking 16 credit hours of math/science). Admissions said this could factor in to me getting an interview.

Well, now my final in org 2 is coming up and I’m almost positive I am going to get a B in the class. I’m just really sad because now I won’t get to email them and I hope they don’t notice. I really want to attend this school.

This has caused me so much stress that it has affected my studying in other courses and I’m afraid I’ll even get a B in my calculus class. I don’t know. I almost was admitted to the hospital last night because I had a panic attack that lasted for almost 8 hours. I feel smart…I just want to feel good enough.
 
The amount of drama my class has is astounding…. Has anyone else experienced this? There’s been a lot of drama surrounding competition, cliques, and between certain people. It’s really uncomfortable.

I didn't feel my class had too much drama, but I definitely felt like it tended to be clique-y and there was certainly some drama here and there. At times it felt like high school. I do not miss it.
 
I didn't feel my class had too much drama, but I definitely felt like it tended to be clique-y and there was certainly some drama here and there. At times it felt like high school. I do not miss it.
There’s literally a war of people reporting each other for “professionalism.” People going at professors and each other over how a class is structured / how a professor handles things. People are also OBSESSED with class rank and comparing themselves.
 
The amount of drama my class has is astounding…. Has anyone else experienced this? There’s been a lot of drama surrounding competition, cliques, and between certain people. It’s really uncomfortable.
We had several classes known for drama while I was in school. I'm sorry if you get drawn into it. :/
 
There’s literally a war of people reporting each other for “professionalism.” People going at professors and each other over how a class is structured / how a professor handles things. People are also OBSESSED with class rank and comparing themselves.
Someone in my original class emailed a professor that a quiz was too easy when the average was a 60%. 🙄
 
There’s literally a war of people reporting each other for “professionalism.” People going at professors and each other over how a class is structured / how a professor handles things. People are also OBSESSED with class rank and comparing themselves.
My previous class was honestly like this - I have my own friends leftover in the class, but I don't trust most of the rest of them. New class is far kinder and more collaborative, I'm definitely happy I was reclassified with this group!
 
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How I feel inside after being rejected by schools that heavily weight GPA & Course load.

Like “yo, I managed a 3.78 with a full course load while also working full time & living on my own”. Sorry it wasn’t 18 credit hours, but I promise I can handle the rigor. LET ME PROVE IT
 
Officially received my B+ in Ochem 2 today. There goes my first 4.0 semester
B+ is an excellent grade for Ochem 2!

You did WELL and deserve to be congratulated for your hard work!!! 🙂

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There’s literally a war of people reporting each other for “professionalism.” People going at professors and each other over how a class is structured / how a professor handles things. People are also OBSESSED with class rank and comparing themselves.
I didn’t expect there to be drama during vet/professional school… that is very disheartening! I dealt with enough competition in undergrad
 
Soooo, I need to make a 10 hr cross country drive this weekend and I am not happy about it

From southern Indiana to Omaha, Nebraska. I’m really worried about the snow storm and driving conditions.

Anyone from around any of these areas that can give insight on how road conditions on highways typically look after snowfall? I don’t even know if these areas will get hit.

Mt. Vernon, Columbia, St. Louis, Kansas City, Mound City, Council Bluffs, Omaha
 
Soooo, I need to make a 10 hr cross country drive this weekend and I am not happy about it

From southern Indiana to Omaha, Nebraska. I’m really worried about the snow storm and driving conditions.

Anyone from around any of these areas that can give insight on how road conditions on highways typically look after snowfall? I don’t even know if these areas will get hit.

Mt. Vernon, Columbia, St. Louis, Kansas City, Mound City, Council Bluffs, Omaha
I'm quite a bit farther north of those cities, but in general I think the states that get a lot of snow get the roads cleared pretty quickly. How familiar are you with driving in snowy and icy conditions? The most important thing is not to do anything suddenly - braking, accelerating, turning - leave yourself a lot of extra space between you and the person in front of you, and make all of your transitions as smooth as possible.

I know north of those cities, we're supposed to get a really gross mix of sleet/rain/snow, which makes the roads a lot worse than just snow by itself.
You may want to check out potential stopping points where you can layover for the night if the conditions are really bad. It's not ideal to add a night to your trip, but it's worth it if conditions are so bad that your safety is really at risk by staying on the road.
 
I'm quite a bit farther north of those cities, but in general I think the states that get a lot of snow get the roads cleared pretty quickly. How familiar are you with driving in snowy and icy conditions? The most important thing is not to do anything suddenly - braking, accelerating, turning - leave yourself a lot of extra space between you and the person in front of you, and make all of your transitions as smooth as possible.

I know north of those cities, we're supposed to get a really gross mix of sleet/rain/snow, which makes the roads a lot worse than just snow by itself.
You may want to check out potential stopping points where you can layover for the night if the conditions are really bad. It's not ideal to add a night to your trip, but it's worth it if conditions are so bad that your safety is really at risk by staying on the road.
True, a layover spot would be nice! Except, I’m leaving on Friday for a volleyball game on *Saturday (the national championship is being hosted in Omaha). I’m only making the trip if my team wins their final four game on Thursday and advances to the natty. I won’t even know for sure until about midnight on Thursday if I’m even making the drive on Friday lol.

Sigh. If it gets that bad, I’d likely miss the game and just watch it on my laptop but I would be bummed. Better safe than sorry, I guess.

I’m from KY, so we get about four or five good snows a year, but the most snow I’ve ever seen was about a foot and I didn’t drive in it. I’ve done ice storms before, but no more than 30 minutes drive. I typically stay off the roads when they’re bad. I don’t know if I could handle 10 hours of poor conditions.

Im most worried about driving on highways where things look completely fine and there’s no bad weather…and then there being slick spots/black ice that I can’t see/didn’t expect.
 
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Soooo, I need to make a 10 hr cross country drive this weekend and I am not happy about it

From southern Indiana to Omaha, Nebraska. I’m really worried about the snow storm and driving conditions.

Anyone from around any of these areas that can give insight on how road conditions on highways typically look after snowfall? I don’t even know if these areas will get hit.

Mt. Vernon, Columbia, St. Louis, Kansas City, Mound City, Council Bluffs, Omaha
You’re coming near my area and typically the roads are cleared pretty quickly even in bad weather. I’ve driven on the interstate in pretty bad weather (most notably on the way to my vet school interview) and other drivers are pretty cautious and safe. I second what shorty said to do for driving in poor weather. I’m driving home after finals on Friday so we could theoretically pass each other on the highway! If the weather is bad you can reach out to me and I’ll try to help you find a safe place to stay. Safe travels, and I hope you get to see the game!
 
Yep. Vet school has felt more like high school than actual high school ever did. I feel like once you get into your 20's, there is no correlation between emotional/mental maturity and aging.
I totally agree!
 
You’re coming near my area and typically the roads are cleared pretty quickly even in bad weather. I’ve driven on the interstate in pretty bad weather (most notably on the way to my vet school interview) and other drivers are pretty cautious and safe. I second what shorty said to do for driving in poor weather. I’m driving home after finals on Friday so we could theoretically pass each other on the highway! If the weather is bad you can reach out to me and I’ll try to help you find a safe place to stay. Safe travels, and I hope you get to see the game!
Thank you so much!!

Not to dox myself, but it’s possible that my wife will be playing in the national championship game so it’s so important for me to be there!
 
I didn’t expect there to be drama during vet/professional school… that is very disheartening! I dealt with enough competition in undergrad
It’s apparently in almost ever professional school. My undergrad roommate is in the medical school and there’s similar drama/competition. I guess it’s bound to happen when you have a group of very high achieving people together.
 
It’s apparently in almost ever professional school. My undergrad roommate is in the medical school and there’s similar drama/competition. I guess it’s bound to happen when you have a group of very high achieving people together.
Overall have you enjoyed your experience/ made friends that stay out of drama? Also why is there so much competition? Is it more so people who want to specialize and go beyond the 4 years ?
 
I didn't personally experience much competition-type drama in my class or those directly above and below mine (can't speak for other classes I was less familiar with). There were some personality clashes and stuff, which will happen anytime you stick 80+ people together for 8 hours a day every day, but nothing like what was described above with needlessly reporting people for professionalism and such. Grade comparisons were just...not a thing. We never talked about class rank at all. Overall it was a much more collaborative than competitive environment.
 
I didn't personally experience much competition-type drama in my class or those directly above and below mine (can't speak for other classes I was less familiar with). There were some personality clashes and stuff, which will happen anytime you stick 80+ people together for 8 hours a day every day, but nothing like what was described above with needlessly reporting people for professionalism and such. Grade comparisons were just...not a thing. We never talked about class rank at all. Overall it was a much more collaborative than competitive environment.
Yeah, same. My class had some drama, but it was never that kind of drama.
 
Overall have you enjoyed your experience/ made friends that stay out of drama? Also why is there so much competition? Is it more so people who want to specialize and go beyond the 4 years ?
I have made some really good friends! Im not exactly sure why there’s so much competition in my class? A lot of people want to specialize and others just get satisfaction from being the best I guess. I have not been involved and any drama thank god, it’s just sort of awkward when people are having public disputes I guess. But overall I really like a lot of people in my class!
 
I didn't personally experience much competition-type drama in my class or those directly above and below mine (can't speak for other classes I was less familiar with). There were some personality clashes and stuff, which will happen anytime you stick 80+ people together for 8 hours a day every day, but nothing like what was described above with needlessly reporting people for professionalism and such. Grade comparisons were just...not a thing. We never talked about class rank at all. Overall it was a much more collaborative than competitive environment.
Goes for my class as well
 
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