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Re-apply with acceptance into inaugural class at DO school?

Discussion in 'Re-Applicants [ MD / DO ]' started by SaltySprings, May 15, 2018.

  1. SaltySprings

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    I know this question has been asked before. If this school was better established I would not be questioning taking this acceptance. 1 in the hand is 2 in the bush and all that.

    I am trying to decide whether or not to reapply MD and DO this upcoming cycle, take a gap year or take an offer at a brand new school. I am extremely tempted to take it but do not know if it will limit me in the future. I hope to keep my options open for residency and am worried about matching as well as dealing with a potential lack of research and rotational opportunities associated with a brand new school. The pre-accreditation seems to be going well but is always at least slightly scary.

    To everyone that may ask why I applied to a school I don't wish to attend, I applied because there was no secondary application. Having learned a bit more about the program I am second guessing it (mandatory attendance, dress code etc...).

    Story:

    I am a non trad career changer. Graduated undergrad in 2013, went and worked elsewhere for a few years and decided a career in medicine was what I wanted in 2015. I went back to school and did well in ochem, ochem lab, biochem, cell bio and genetics. I took the MCAT late in June 2017, thought I bombed, got my score back and decided I would apply. I was naive and didn't think a late/rushed app would hinder me all that much. Maybe it did, maybe it didn't, but at this point I wish I would have skipped last cycle and done it right one time.

    I completed secondaries at ~6 MD and 3 DO schools all pretty late in their respective cycles. Should have been far more but I didn't have time due to the late applications. Talking October and even into November/December for the MDs. I was offered 1 MD interview resulting in a middle of the pack waitlist spot at OHSU. I was offered 2 DO interviews (Touro-CA and New School) and was waitlisted at both and pulled from the waitlist at New School.


    Stats:

    3.1 Undergrad cGPA/sGPA (without Post Bacc)
    -Double Major General Science and Spanish
    3.95 DIY Post Bacc in the classes mentioned above 3 years post undergrad
    GPA AMCAS: cGPA 3.26/sGPA 3.18
    515 MCAT (131,127,129,128)

    ECs last cycle:

    72 hours volunteering on a medical mission to under-served country. helped clean/move patients etc...

    1450 hours (~35 hr/week for 10 months) as a Cardiac Technician at a major hospital
    --Direct patient care performing studies and interacting with physicians/nurses.

    55 Hours shadowing various fields

    Prior work experience in other fields unrelated to medicine. Some of these are fairly unique.

    Speak Spanish well

    Updates for next cycle:

    45 more volunteer hours on another medical mission to different underserved country. Similar experience although much harder work.

    Almost twice as many clinical hours with better leadership experiences in my department.

    Completed EMT course working towards National Registry

    Volunteering at Local Food bank (in the works)

    more shadowing hours (in the works)

    better personal statement. Noticed a minor error in my PS after having proofread the thing 100 times too many after submitting.

    More and potentially better Letters of Recommendation. Director of Cardiac department and another MD from the second mission.

    Previous schools applied to:

    MD:

    UW (in Region)
    OHSU (Mission based)
    UNR
    U of U (in Region)
    U of A
    1 more can't remember

    DO:

    Touro-CA
    Touro-NV
    New School

    I am seeking advice on how to proceed (take offer, reapply or gap year) from anyone willing to share it!
    Thanks for reading this long post.
     
    #1 SaltySprings, May 15, 2018
    Last edited: May 29, 2018
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  3. SaltySprings

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    I feel that if I apply very broadly I could potentially land an MD spot and probably a DO spot unless of course me not taking this acceptance is a death sentence for all DO schools.
     
    #2 SaltySprings, May 15, 2018
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
  4. frosted2

    frosted2 C/O 2023 hopeful!
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    GOD PEOPLE. TAKE THE FREAKING ACCEPTANCE OR DO. NOT. APPLY.

    :punch::rage::punch::rage::punch::rage::punch::rage::punch::rage::punch::punch::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
     
  5. SaltySprings

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    Everyone says this and I mostly get it. In this case though I am unsure if it is in my best interest. I admit, I should have just waited a full cycle to apply probably and had this year be my first go around.
     
    Syncrohnize likes this.
  6. You didn't really apply to that many MD schools. Assuming your interview skills are good you should a good shot at an MD if that's what you're after.

    You will definitely get DO interviews and acceptances another cycle.

    Apply to more schools. I know it will be expensive but that's how it goes.

    Again, if you're after MD, your stats should get you a good number of interviews. Interview skills is another layer of complexity. Only you know how would fare there if you're honest with yourself. Use the gap year to do something meaningful.
     
    parslea likes this.
  7. SaltySprings

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    So you suggest waiting an extra year to apply (entrance in 2020)? Or do you mean apply with the changes I have made to many more schools that I did not complete secondaries to?

    If I did not complete secondaries to a school can that school see my old application?
     
  8. I don't know how that works i.e. if you submitted an app but didn't fill out a secondary. You can ask @Goro about that. I assumed you just applied to a low number of schools.

    I am just saying that if you were to complete secondaries to ~25 schools you should get interviews to ~5 schools (at least) from which you will likely get AN acceptance. Just a numbers game based on your stats. That fact that you sent out your app may or may not change anything for your next cycle. I couldn't say anything about that though.
     
  9. SaltySprings

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    Gotcha. Yeah, I did apply to a low number of schools. I meant, will schools that I did not apply to at all have access to my last app?
     
  10. Goro

    Faculty 7+ Year Member

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    By all means, turn down the acceptance, because you clearly don't want to be a doctor. I'd prefer your seat go to someone who wants it.
    Your MD list will be donations. Take your dad out for Father's Day instead.

    Work on interview skills.

    DO schools will not know automatically that you've turned down an acceptance, but many MD and DO schools ask if you've been accepted somewhere. Are you going to lie?
     
    DrGainzzz, Shotapp, Trollest and 2 others like this.
  11. SaltySprings

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    @Goro thanks for the reply. I've seen you say this to many people. I do want to be a doctor. In this case it is less about the "I missed out on my dream school and want to try again" mentality and more about what is legitimately best for my future career. Matriculating could be a big risk to take on an expensive pre-accredited DO school without federal loans, unsure clinical rotations and no historical residency match data. As stated before, it was not the best idea to apply last cycle. Moving forward I am trying to gauge how big this risk actually might be in terms of landing a residency in something like anesthesia. I do not know how to guage this without expressing some worry to the staff of this school which seems like a bad idea at this point. I will not lie on an application about whether or not I have been accepted somewhere but feel I could explain within reason why I did not matriculate.

    I am also confused with your advice. MD list will be donations vs work on interview skills.

    Do you personally think with my stats etc... I have no chance at mid low MD schools? I only submitted secondaries to 6 schools last year and they were all late.
     
    Trollest likes this.
  12. Goro

    Faculty 7+ Year Member

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    I was harsh on you because I;m tired of these types of thread.
    I expect you to know what you're getting into. Why did you apply to a brand new school if you're familiar with the risks involved?
    Not all new schools are the same. I have have a higher regard for BCOM and UIW than I do for ICOM.

    OOS public MD schools don't seem to be that good of a target for reinventors (except for UCSF). Rather, I recommend the following:
    Your state school
    BU
    Duke
    Columbia
    Case
    Mayo
    Pitt
    Hofstra
    Drexel
    Albany
    NYMC
    U Miami
    Rosy F
    EVMS
    Wake
    Dartmouth
    Tufts
    Netter
    Gtown
    GWU
    Any DO school, expect for my list of Bad Boys
     
  13. SaltySprings

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    Really I applied because I am from the area and there was no secondary app (and it was a late deadline). I did not realize the many implications of actually applying to school. I was ill-informed last year for certain. Thanks for the list and the help.
     
  14. Faha

    Physician 5+ Year Member

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    You could also try the newer MD schools: Seton Hall, NOVA MD, California University, Oakland Beaumont, Western Michigan. Also apply broadly to at least 15 DO schools and apply in June and submit all your secondaries by July.
     
  15. twospadz

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    You would be crazy to not take the acceptance. Every year medical school and residency is getting more competitive. To delay for another year, you really don't know what the future will hold.
     
  16. calivianya

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    Your GPA is just really, really awful, tbh.

    Reapply if you want, but I wouldn't bother applying to any MD schools. Reinvention only gets you so far - I had a >3.90 postbacc with a ~3.55 c/s cumulative GPA and a 515 MCAT, and that wasn't even good enough for MD schools.
     
  17. AlexMack12

    AlexMack12 I have no idea what I'm doing.
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    The issue really comes down to, how will schools view your application once you report that you had a prior acceptance and you turned it down. I don’t disagree with your logic and reasoning; there are some valid concerns you bring up. However, for many schools, seeing that an applicant had an acceptance and turned it down is a red flag, and may negatively impact their decision to admit you.

    There may be one exception- and I’m not an adcom, so please, if I’m wrong, someone weight in.
    You mentioned that you can’t use federal loans for tuition?
    If this is true, you could perhaps explain in a secondary why you turned down the one admission offer you had: absolute inability to pay due to high costs due to the school not accepting federal loans (and how you do not have the resources to pay out of pocket, or co-signers for private loans in the amount you would need to attend medical school). Even better if it wasn’t clear from the get-go that this school didn’t accept federal loans and you were only informed of this after you were offered admission.
    Note that this wouldn’t work if you simply reapplied because you COULD get federal loans but felt the school was too expensive, you didn’t want to take out THAT many loans, etc.
    Although your reasons for not wanting to go to this school (uncertainty about future career prospects, etc) are not invalid, I don’t think they’d get you very far with other schools, since their answer could easily be, “why didn’t you think of this before?”

    Nonetheless, turning down the acceptance comes with its own risks. Even with the above explanation, schools may not be willing to look past your declined acceptance. Both of your options (take the acceptance vs reapply) have risks (unsure career prospects vs not getting another offer of admission), so it’s really up to you which risks you want to take.

    Best of luck to you.
     
  18. That doesn't mean OP won't be good enough for MD programs. Definitely DO in another cycle.

    I don't know anything about you and I am not judging but with 3.55 and 515 sounds like you may have had other things preventing an acceptance offer. As is always the case it's not just the GPA and MCAT score.

    I think that if asked why didn't you matriculate when offered an acceptance if OP said "I applied a little late in the cycle and didn't have a clear path in my mind on which schools might bet the right fit for me and after some thought I didn't feel school X was going to be for me for reasons ABC". I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

    In my mind it is no different from having 5 acceptances to multiple schools and selecting the school that is best suited for you. In this case it may span a few cycles rather than one cycle.
     
    #17 Deleted member 750603, May 19, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: May 19, 2018
  19. TheVFibKid

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    Take the ICOM acceptance. Late application or not, the fact that you did not even get an interview at UW as an Idaho resident does not bode well for you, as the non-Washington WWAMI states typically interview like 2/3 of their applicants.

    You should have applied to Pacific Northwest, but that is water under the bridge. Your only shot next year will be getting into another DO school, and there is no DO school worth waiting a year for instead of going to ICOM now that would be willing to accept you if you apply having already turned down an acceptance. The better, more established DO programs (PCOM, DMU, ATSU, etc.) are almost certainly out of the question, so you'd be looking at something like NYIT-Arkansas or some other school that has only been around < 5 years in a best-case scenario. That's not worth waiting for in my opinion.
     
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  20. SaltySprings

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    What were your ECs like? There was probably some other issue because those stats are certainly good enough for MD schools.
     
  21. SaltySprings

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    Thanks for the reply.

    I learned about the federal loan situation at my interview.

    I never understood the logic of why turning down an acceptance is such a terrible thing though. If the school seems like it would be an awful fit or you realize something is a deal breaker, why not reapply? Hopefully you would have weeded out all these issues with thorough research on every school but come on. People apply to 40 schools sometimes. No way are they reading every student handbook. If someone didn't get in to their dream school and is turning down an acceptance from a decent school simply because they want another shot at their dream school I can see why that would be problematic for sure.
     
  22. ibarne242

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    I don't know why I'm in these forums but take the damn acceptance.
    Go to the DO school. DO is better anyway. Harder to get a residency now more than ever but not THAT hard (still way easier than carribbean). Just take it. It got accredited, it's a real united states school, you learn musculoskeletal a little better at DO schools anyway. Take it.
     
  23. SaltySprings

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    Hey thanks for the advice. Technically its pre-accredited. I believe you must graduate a class to become accredited.
     
  24. Magus5454

    Magus5454 MS1 C/O 2022
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    Why do people do this.
     
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  25. Quackery445

    Quackery445 King of the Onion - to - Foot Detoxification
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    Seems to me like the school may have begun recruiting a bit early if they can’t offer federal aid yet. ARCOM was pretty good about that, planning the timeline to obtain provisional accreditation before actually accepting applications for their inaugural class in the 2016-2017 application season.
     
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  26. Trollest

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    His MCAT is in range for NOVA MD. His EC and GPA on the other hand I have no idea.
     
  27. SaltySprings

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    I only received one interview (OHSU) from the MDs. With a revised personal statement I got interviews from all the DOs. My personal statement was definitely regrettable looking back on it now for MD. Could a poor personal statement and/or activity descriptions have barred me from interview or do you think my stats/ECs were just too weak? Applying late didn't help regardless. Any input @LizzyM and @gyngyn?
     
  28. Magus5454

    Magus5454 MS1 C/O 2022
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    You only got one interview because you were beyond late with your MD apps
     
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  29. SaltySprings

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    To answer your previous question about why I applied late, I took my MCAT at the earliest possible date after finishing my post Bacc that would give me a reasonable time frame to study for it which was June 29th 2017. I thought I bombed the test and figured I would be retaking it so I didnt start apps at all until I got my score back a month later. I should have had everything in order to submit right when that score came back but felt that studying for the Mcat, working and applying was too much to do all at once if I wanted to succeed on the test. I got a little overzealous when I got my score back and figured I would apply when I should have waited to do it right this year.
     
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  30. Magus5454

    Magus5454 MS1 C/O 2022
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    That gives you your MCAT back in July. You have stated you got apps in in December..
     
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  31. SaltySprings

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    What you said is true. It gets my MCAT back July 29th. I had not written a personal statement, done any sort of transcripts I did not start anything on the AMCAS app until August. Getting all that done didn't get me submitted til the end of August then verified sometime after that. Without prewriting secondaries I didn't submit the last ones til quite a while later.
     
  32. Shotapp

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    Your concerns of attending a brand spanking new DO school is nonsensical. Everyone on this forum is fully aware of the risks of being one of the guinea pigs of a new program. There really is no excuse for you applying there. You need to relinquish your seat bruh.
     
  33. Syncrohnize

    Syncrohnize PGY-1
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    Got here by browsing recent threads and this is a complicated situations.

    #1. You really messed your application timing up which had a significant effect on your competitiveness and obscures the picture for how competitive you really are. If took your MCAT June 29th, SDN has the secondary prompts schools posted by then. You had a month to pre-write the secondaries. You unfortunately wasted 4 months. For your future information or if anyone else is reading this, secondary timing >>> secondary uniqueness. Write something respectable, but don't waste your time trying to make it amazing. The best way to think of it is like the writing prompt on a standardized test. You have 3 to write per day, GO!

    #2. I don't know re-invention application strategy as well as re-admissions experts like Goro & others, but who knows how competitive your application will be the second time around. The good news is OHSU gave you an interview. From what I know they're competitive, but they also have on older demographic. UW is also competitive, but someone here says they interview 2/3 of their applicants "WWAMI" applicants and if they didn't interview you despite your MCAT/ECs, that's not a good sign.

    #3. The thing no one seems to have addressed is what your priorities in life are. From those we can determine what your goals should be. You're in your 30s and applying to medical school so income's probably not the most important reason. I also can't imagine you'd want to spend 7+ years post-medical school. You need to outline this all for us. If you want to optimize your salary while finishing as quick as possible, this new DO school can get you an Emergency Medicine spot which will get your out early with a decent salary and time off. If you want to be a leader or pursue a fellowship in a less competitive field or even apply to a surgical subspecialty, the DO school is a poor choice.

    If it were my life, I'd prioritize getting out early and getting a good income with time off so I'd say go to the DO school so you can become a good EM physician/Hospitalist.
     
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  34. SaltySprings

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    Thank you for the thoughtful reply.

    #1 As a non trad I should have done a better job researching the application process prior to last year. I knew the general requirements to get into medical school but vastly underestimated the difficulty and time requirements of the application process. As someone who did not live and breathe premed for 4-5 years before applying, I did not fully understand the process and readily admit this. I should have found better advice than I did.

    #2 In respect to not getting a WWAMI interview at UW I agree. It was worrisome at the time and still is now. I thought if I would get an interview anywhere it would be there. This is where I am very unsure. Yes I applied late however I don't know if that would have affected this school in particular. I am beginning to believe it was either a GPA rule out or due to my personal statement which was not good. Possibly a combo of both. Rereading it with what I know now about adcoms and this process the PS was definitely not good.

    #3 My priorities are to graduate school and keep my options as open as possible. I don't want to be stuck with FM or IM when I am done which is my worry. If I start this year I will be 27. If I reapplied and (hopefully) got it I would be 28. I have my eyes set on something like Anesthesiology because I love the OR and it isnt uber competitive.
     
  35. Magus5454

    Magus5454 MS1 C/O 2022
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    If you want to do that go to the DO school
     
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