Reality of this profession

[EastSide]

I'm a non-trad who completed a post-bac in order to apply to Med Schools.

I've been drowning myself in SDN forums as well as talking to other physicians on their lifestyle after the arduous process of Med School + Residency.

For me, this path is not about money. Making 250k vs 350k is no really different to me. I am more than willing to take such pay-cut if given an opportunity.
So as an attending, is it possible to work a normal 40-hour week in order to maintain a healthy life with family?
(I realized that some are offended by such remark, thinking that the life of a physician requires a lifetime dedication, thus demanding around 60 hrs // or considers this generation as "soft" not wanting to work)

Family is my #1 priority and I do not want to compromise it.
This concern has been so exacerbated to a point where I'm thinking of rescinding my DO applications to apply to PA programs.

I'm an EMT now and have been interested in EM and the lifestyle it provides. But as I dive deeper into their schedules, many "day offs" = "recovery" days. Also, some are growing weary on the relentless whack sleep schedule.

I was a pre-PT track in college. Looked into and shadowed PMNR, but really not that interested.

So please, Attendings (& residents / med students)
share with me the reality (or speculation) of your life upon completing the process.
- How is your life at home?
- time to invest in other hobbies?
- flexibility in your schedule?
- other advice, encouragements, warnings, etc?

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[Meridian32]

Yes, you can work 40 hours/week as an attending and maintain a good work/life balance - however, it is very specialty and practice setting dependent. I can speak a little about my experience.

I just finished internal medicine residency and am currently working as a hospitalist (an attending who takes care of patients admitted to the hospital). This is a "gap year" job that I'm planning to do for two years before moving on to fellowship. I specifically wanted to work part time, so I currently work ~2.5 days/week and ~10-14 hours/day on average. I work only days, no nights. I think the work/life balance is phenomenal, especially compared to residency. It averages out to less than 40 hours most weeks. For example, this week I am working only one day, and the rest of the time is for family (I have a preschooler), errands, exercise and my research project. Although I am paid less than a full time attending, I'm still earning 2x what I was paid as a resident and I feel fairly and well compensated for my time.

The caveats are the following:

(1) When I am on service, medicine is priority #1. If it is 6 PM but my patient is crashing, I cannot leave the hospital. This is non-negotiable - it doesn't matter whether my family is expecting me home for dinner, my preschooler has a parent-teacher conference, etc. The patient always comes first.
(2) This is very specialty and practice setting dependent. For example, a general surgeon is more likely to work longer weeks and to need to take home call where they can be summoned into the hospital in the middle of the night. An emergency physician may work 40 hour weeks on average, but as you said, those shifts could be at any hour of the day or night.
(3) You will not be able to put family first during med school and residency. In the third year of med school and in most residency programs, you will have 70-80 hour weeks and night duty at least some of the time.

Summary - it's possible to have a great work/life balance as an attending, but this is very specialty and practice setting dependent, and when you are working, patients always come first. Also, work/life balance is worse during med school and residency. As one of the doctors I spoke with before med school put it, even if you already have a spouse, "you will always be married to medicine."

If you can live with these compromises, medicine may be a good fit for you, but if family always has to come first, I would not recommend this route.

 

[Faha]

You could potentially have a lot of flexibility if you go into Emergency Medicine. You do not need to work 40 hours or more a week. I know of ER physicians who work two 12 hour shifts per week by choice. There are also locum tenens positions where you can specify that you do not wish to work nights ( I have one friend in ER who has not worked nights for several years). It is also possible to do one 24 hour shift per week in a low volume ER where you would be able to sleep several hours during the night (these are ERs that average less than 20 patients in 24 hours). ER is compatible with family life if you chose the right work environment.

 

[atomi]

I'm a non-trad who completed a post-bac in order to apply to Med Schools.

I've been drowning myself in SDN forums as well as talking to other physicians on their lifestyle after the arduous process of Med School + Residency.

For me, this path is not about money. Making 250k vs 350k is no really different to me. I am more than willing to take such pay-cut if given an opportunity.
So as an attending, is it possible to work a normal 40-hour week in order to maintain a healthy life with family?
(I realized that some are offended by such remark, thinking that the life of a physician requires a lifetime dedication, thus demanding around 60 hrs // or considers this generation as "soft" not wanting to work)

Family is my #1 priority and I do not want to compromise it.
This concern has been so exacerbated to a point where I'm thinking of rescinding my DO applications to apply to PA programs.

I'm an EMT now and have been interested in EM and the lifestyle it provides. But as I dive deeper into their schedules, many "day offs" = "recovery" days. Also, some are growing weary on the relentless whack sleep schedule.

I was a pre-PT track in college. Looked into and shadowed PMNR, but really not that interested.

So please, Attendings (& residents / med students)
share with me the reality (or speculation) of your life upon completing the process.
- How is your life at home?
- time to invest in other hobbies?
- flexibility in your schedule?
- other advice, encouragements, warnings, etc?

There are a lot of specialties where you can work 8-5 M-F with minimal call.

 

[OneTwoThreeFour]

I'm a non-trad who completed a post-bac in order to apply to Med Schools.

I've been drowning myself in SDN forums as well as talking to other physicians on their lifestyle after the arduous process of Med School + Residency.

For me, this path is not about money. Making 250k vs 350k is no really different to me. I am more than willing to take such pay-cut if given an opportunity.
So as an attending, is it possible to work a normal 40-hour week in order to maintain a healthy life with family?
(I realized that some are offended by such remark, thinking that the life of a physician requires a lifetime dedication, thus demanding around 60 hrs // or considers this generation as "soft" not wanting to work)

Family is my #1 priority and I do not want to compromise it.
This concern has been so exacerbated to a point where I'm thinking of rescinding my DO applications to apply to PA programs.

I'm an EMT now and have been interested in EM and the lifestyle it provides. But as I dive deeper into their schedules, many "day offs" = "recovery" days. Also, some are growing weary on the relentless whack sleep schedule.

I was a pre-PT track in college. Looked into and shadowed PMNR, but really not that interested.

So please, Attendings (& residents / med students)
share with me the reality (or speculation) of your life upon completing the process.
- How is your life at home?
- time to invest in other hobbies?
- flexibility in your schedule?
- other advice, encouragements, warnings, etc?

In 10 years you could have moderate control over your work schedule but definitely not until then. If time with family is your #1 priority right now then i believe that medical school + residency is not the right choice.

 

[GenSurgONLY]

In 10 years you could have moderate control over your work schedule but definitely not until then. If time with family is your #1 priority right now then i believe that medical school + residency is not the right choice.

Yes! I am okay with this but trying to drill this into my husband’s skull will take at least until I finish my pre-reqs before he truly understands this. I tell him, “Hun, I am probably going to miss a lot of school conferences and sports games(ECs for the kids). My “downtime” will be spent either studying or taking a nap”. We used to play disc golf a lot on the weekends but probably will not until I become an attending. Lol

After work, school, family and studying, the last thing I want to do on a Friday night or Saturday morning is go out.

 

[Goro]

Yes! I am okay with this but trying to drill this into my husband’s skull will take at least until I finish my pre-reqs before he truly understands this. I tell him, “Hun, I am probably going to miss a lot of school conferences and sports games(ECs for the kids). My “downtime” will be spent either studying or taking a nap”. We used to play disc golf a lot on the weekends but probably will not until I become an attending. Lol

After work, school, family and studying, the last thing I want to do on a Friday night or Saturday morning is go out.

Your family will need to get used to this conversation a lot:
Them: What are you doing?
You: Studying.

 

[Gfliptastic]

So please, Attendings (& residents / med students)
share with me the reality (or speculation) of your life upon completing the process.
- How is your life at home?
- time to invest in other hobbies?
- flexibility in your schedule?
- other advice, encouragements, warnings, etc?

Just as stated above, you need to devote 85% of your awake time, in medical school to studying. Which is no fun for family or significant others. So, do you have family now?? And is your spouse and kids ready for the time commitment involved. For a good 7 years or more of your life. Because once you finish 2 years of pre-clinical medical school, you start the "fun" w/ clinical rotations. Then your residency. Making you mostly an absentee from their lives.

That said, home life is not bad, but I'm not married or have kids. And this will depend on your speciality. There are "9-5" jobs. Mine is one of them as an outpatient internist. I am "committed" to a 32 hour work week (when I see patients). My weekends are perpetually off. So give me my wife and kids NOW lol.

EM has potential. It's usually 3-4 12 hour shifts. Which means you have days off. And if you are used to the "lifestyle" they aren't necessarily "recovery days". You get used to it. My cousin is an EM physician, he's so used to it, he can go from a 12 hour shift to the gym, etc.

Some of my friends/fellow residency grads do hospitalist. That's shift work. It's often 16 10-12 hour shifts a month. Splice that up however you like it. My friend, she front loads every month and get's 1/2 a month off. All the time. Some surgeons can do something like that. Work long hours for a streak, then off.

I have plenty of time for my hobbies. Right now I do hiking. I can go skiing when the snow hits. Again, I see patients from 8 and stop at 5. Total "banker hours". I can cook a fancy meal. Go to trivia night. Day trips or fly out of Boston on the weekends.

I do have work hours, but it's also flexible. I can just block time off my schedule if needed.

I know you said you wanted DO school, but the bigger question is WHY vs. PA school? Why a doctor specifically? And think about the life commitment.

 

[676188]

Yes! I am okay with this but trying to drill this into my husband’s skull will take at least until I finish my pre-reqs before he truly understands this. I tell him, “Hun, I am probably going to miss a lot of school conferences and sports games(ECs for the kids). My “downtime” will be spent either studying or taking a nap”. We used to play disc golf a lot on the weekends but probably will not until I become an attending. Lol

After work, school, family and studying, the last thing I want to do on a Friday night or Saturday morning is go out.

I can count on one hand how many school conferences, doctor’s appointments and kids’ sports events I’ve missed due to taking pre-reqs, volunteering, and working(from home, mind you) combined. Now, I know Med school will be a different ball game, but you can make it all work while you’re still a pre-med. I did have to give up a hobby, and recreational reading and TV. I catch up during the semester breaks.

 

[RNtoMD87]

Premed isn't bad at all. If I can work as a full time RN about 48 hrs per week, take a full course load of classes, while doing 10 hours of volunteer work a week, and hitting the gym 4 days per week, it isn't that bad.

Hoping I won't have too sacrifice too much gym time when I'm in med school.

 

[OneTwoThreeFour]

Premed isn't bad at all. If I can work as a full time RN about 48 hrs per week, take a full course load of classes, while doing 10 hours of volunteer work a week, and hitting the gym 4 days per week, it isn't that bad.

Hoping I won't have too sacrifice too much gym time when I'm in med school.

Pretty impressive comparing your gym schedule to OP's time with their kids!

 

[Gfliptastic]

Whatever one does, NEVER EVER EVER compare pre med to anything else they hope follows! They aren't even close.

Since it's all in the news, pre med = heroin. Med school = oxycodone. Residency = fentanyl. The potency changes way too much.

 

[RNtoMD87]

Whatever one does, NEVER EVER EVER compare pre med to anything else they hope follows! They aren't even close.

Since it's all in the news, pre med = heroin. Med school = oxycodone. Residency = fentanyl. The potency changes way too much.

Man. Then what is being an attending? ‍♂️

 

[Mad Jack]

Psych here, it is easy to do 40 hours in medical school and 50ish in most of residency in psych

 

[RNtoMD87]

Which specialities are easiest to get away with pulling the least hours? Like I said, now I currently work 48 hours a week as a critical care RN on top of volunteering, and taking 16 hours coursework, and don't mind having little time as a resident, but I have a lot of hobbies (Powerlifting, marksmanship/ammunition handloading, vinting/homebrewing, etc) and hope to have a family. If I could work even less than 40 hours a week that would be a dream.

I really wish dentistry or optometry appealed to me even in the slightest. M-Thursday 8-3 pm sounds like an absolute dream. and for 120k+! To make that kind of money now I have to work roughly 60-72 hrs a week!

 

[Gfliptastic]

Man. Then what is being an attending? ‍♂️

If I'm in the opiate potency analogy then I guess it's like finishing rehab and being clean!! As far as outpatient medicine goes. Because I love my job and rarely feel stress like anything similar to residency. And that's w/o a "safety net". Every nuance of the patient's medical care is my own.

 

[RNtoMD87]

If I'm in the opiate potency analogy then I guess it's like finishing rehab and being clean!! As far as outpatient medicine goes. Because I love my job and rarely feel stress like anything similar to residency. And that's w/o a "safety net". Every nuance of the patient's medical care is my own.

I am looking forward to that rush. It’s the one thing I miss about the military. All the responsibility = all of the glory. No other feeling like feeling “alive”. In nursing the only time I get that feel is when working a code and even then I hate being a bit player. Simply keeping record, or slamming drugs etc.

 

[deleted480308]

Which specialities are easiest to get away with pulling the least hours? Like I said, now I currently work 48 hours a week as a critical care RN on top of volunteering, and taking 16 hours coursework, and don't mind having little time as a resident, but I have a lot of hobbies (Powerlifting, marksmanship/ammunition handloading, vinting/homebrewing, etc) and hope to have a family. If I could work even less than 40 hours a week that would be a dream.

I really wish dentistry or optometry appealed to me even in the slightest. M-Thursday 8-3 pm sounds like an absolute dream. and for 120k+! To make that kind of money now I have to work roughly 60-72 hrs a week!

TONS of FM jobs are 4.5 days per week with zero weekends/night/holidays and make 200+

 

[RNtoMD87]

TONS of FM jobs are 4.5 days per week with zero weekends/night/holidays and make 200+

I would miss some of the excitement, but I guess I could find it elsewhere. I know I need a job that will allow for a family and aging.

 

[857770]

I would miss some of the excitement, but I guess I could find it elsewhere. I know I need a job that will allow for a family and aging.

After a family medicine or internal medicine residency, you could consider working as a hospitalist. Then you would get to run codes and spend time with the family when you are off.

 

[RNtoMD87]

Do they deal with many codes? Usually we have a CCMS physician at our codes. I'm not sure I've ever seen a hospitalist on a code. Usually when I'm consulting them its a more stable patient. On ICU I've never really dealt with them, but when I float to step down I have consulted them some.

 

[Gfliptastic]

Codes depend on your hospital. And there isn't anything like them for sure! You walk into a dead patient's room. You have to do what it takes to make them alive again!

If you work a community hospital, there's a good chance you will run the code, especially at night. Residents will run almost every single code if you work at a teaching hospital.

I am all about the hum drum of life and getting to know my patients, which is why I chose primary care. But yes, you can be a hospitalist which has a bit more immediate gratification since you handle acute patients requiring hospitalization. And then there IS always Pulm/Crit.

There's a wrinkle to medicine for everyone's needs. In a way, there is almost a schedule to suit everyone.

 

[RNtoMD87]

Its a toss up between residents and attendings here. I work at a 1400 bed hospital and its the only medical experience I have.

My only concern with hospital medicine is every single one I work with says they wish they had chosen pulmonology.

 

[QofQuimica]

Yes, it's possible. You have a lot more control over your schedule as an attending than you do as a trainee, especially if you're willing to take a significant pay cut. But the thing is, you would have 7+ years of training ahead of you to get to this point. If your main goal is to be there for your family over the next decade, then going to medical school isn't the best route to get there. Medical training is inherently inflexible and not family-friendly. Yes, people do go through it with families (and even have kids while in training), but the system is most definitely not set up to accommodate trainees who want to have a 40 hour work week and be home for dinner every night and off on weekends/holidays. I would strongly encourage you to either consider a different career path, or else readjust your work/life balance expectations.

 

[EastSide]

Its a toss up between residents and attendings here. I work at a 1400 bed hospital and its the only medical experience I have.

My only concern with hospital medicine is every single one I work with says they wish they had chosen pulmonology.

why pulm?
Curious now.

 

[NITRAS]

There is a solid clinic option for plum, as well as an avenue into sleep medicine.

If you have a closed ICU, you won’t see a Hospitalist at a code in micu.

I addend codes on the floor, but the pccm fellows show up pretty fast.

 

[RNtoMD87]

why pulm?
Curious now.

They said they felt like they were essentially doing the same thing but for less pay and valued having more knowledge. Three hospitalists told me that separately. They said they enjoyed HMS but would’ve chosen pulm to do CCMS if they could do it over.

Meanwhile the main pulm I work with said he originally wanted to be an orthopedist. Only doctors at this hospital that I work with seem that really seem to enjoy their job is ENT, and a trauma surgeon who started his own cosmetic medicine clinic. Still works on call as a trauma surgeon sometimes but mostly focuses on running his clinic. Good place to get T.

 

[GenSurgONLY]

I can count on one hand how many school conferences, doctor’s appointments and kids’ sports events I’ve missed due to taking pre-reqs, volunteering, and working(from home, mind you) combined. Now, I know Med school will be a different ball game, but you can make it all work while you’re still a pre-med. I did have to give up a hobby, and recreational reading and TV. I catch up during the semester breaks.

I have a son with special needs. Unless, you have child with such needs, it’s really hard to explain how little time you actually have. Most of my pre-med classes will run from 6-10:30PM 4 nights a week. This means my day starts at 6AM until maybe 1AM(the next day) factoring commuting and some studying after class.

And once I get to med school, my husband will pretty much be a single full time working parent. The positive is, my children will be older and my son will be more able to follow his “routines” without as much micromanagement.