Reapplicant - Considering DO

[deleted962871]

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[Whysoez]

You either applied way too top heavy or there is a giant red flag in your app somewhere to not receive any MD IIs.

 

[deleted962871]

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[WaterFlow]

Applied to far too few schools (14) and had no non-clinical volunteering (which is my focus for this year). Also didn't apply as early as I should have (submitted a few secondaries in late august-september).

Submitting “A few” secondaries in August and September is not terribly late.

I am very surprised you did not get a single interview. Were the 14 schools you applied to literally the top 14 schools in the country?

Yes, you probably should have applied to more schools. However, your MCAT is phenomenal and your gpa and ecs are fine. Definitely could have gotten an interview if you applied to a proper range of T40 schools.

I agree with @Whysoez , a red flag could be an issue

 

[enchantments]

1. Add non clinical volunteering (sounds like you’re on that)
2. Apply to 35+ MD’s (you’re a reapplicant so you will need to overcompensate)
3. Start prewriting secondaries (like now)
4. Have your PS/secondaries thoroughly vetted by people from varying backgrounds
5. Be complete at all schools by late August

Someone with your stats should NOT need to go DO. And you shouldn’t want to, not with the recent Step 1 news. You should only add on DO if you don’t have any luck this upcoming cycle.

 

[BASBaseball15]

Honestly, you might be able to add a few DO schools right now and get IIs..... I received an II last week for an app I submitted in July. The weakest part of your app is clinical experience and any possible red flags but you never know. If money isn't an issue, I would throw a few out there to schools you want to attend.

My stats: c/sGPA ~3.5, MCAT 504, clinical hours > 3,000 in multiple specialties, and multiple leadership positions, minimal research. I have had 9 DO IIs throughout the cycle, attended 6, 4 acceptances, 1 rejection, waiting to hear back from 1 interview.

 

[sab3156]

lol do not apply DO with your stats. Apply broadly to MD schools. You need to apply more strategically. What a waste of your hard work to end up at a DO school without trying appropriately to get into an MD school.

 

[DO2015CA]

Improve your application extracurricular wise and apply MD. You are fine. You will get in somewhere.

 

[Faha]

You should receive interviews from MD schools with your MCAT of 526. Which schools did you apply to ? Where is your state of residence ?

 

[Goro]

Hi everyone,

I'm likely going to have to reapply this year after receiving no IIs. I did MD-only this cycle, and am trying to figure out if it would be a good idea for me to add ~5-10 D.O. schools to my list when I apply. Here's what I'm hoping my app will look like by early June:

Stats:
cGPA: 3.62
sGPA: 3.52
(Upward trend, ~3.1-3.2 as a Freshman, ~3.8 since then)
MCAT: 526 (132/131/132/131)

ECs:
~200hrs hospital volunteering
~100-150hrs non-clinical volunteering (homeless food delivery, low-income tutoring)
~50hrs shadowing
~1800hrs bench research w/middle author publication
~1000hrs clinical research
-biochemistry TA for 2 years
-model UN for four years

My main questions are:

• Will the DO schools know I'm a reapplicant if I didn't apply DO this year?
• What is a reasonable number of D.O. schools to apply to (I'll be applying to 25-30 MD schools).
• If it's a good idea for me to apply to D.O. schools, could you recommend a few? I'd strongly prefer to be a D.O. in primary care than to be no doctor at all, but I'd still like to try to apply to the schools with the best rotations/matches.
• I know there was a recent thread in which Goro said that his school does not yield protect (/research protect?), but are there any schools that are known for doing this?

Thank you!!

I don't know of any DO school that does resource protection.

For you, Take a gap year and double your hours in clinical exposure and also non-clinical volunteering. No more research.
Rewrite all essays and have multiple eyeballs vet them

Then target these schools:
Your state schools
Wayne State
Duke
Pitt
Keck
Mayo
Case
BU
Vandy
Columbia
Miami
Seton Hall
Netter
SLU
Western MI
Jefferson
Emory
Dartmouth
Temple
Drexel
GWU
Gtown
Tulane
TCU/UNT
NYMC
Albany
Creighton
EVMS

Any DO school (pick about ten and avoid the newest schools). I can't recommend Nova, Wm Carey, BCOM, ICOM and LUCOM, for different reasons. MSUCOM? Read up on Larry Nasser and you decide. LMU has an accreditation warning, which concerns me. CalHS is too new and appears to be too limited in rotations sites.

 

[deleted962871]

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[hallowmann]

Illinois.

No Decision (Likely R except maybe einstein):

• UIC
• Einstein
• Emory
• Kaiser
• Jefferson
• Drexel (hold)

Rejected:

• BU
• Tufts
• Case
• Lerner
• Hofstra
• Rochester
• Penn
• Michigan

Latest applications were Case/Lerner at the end of August, and Emory mid-September

You applied to too few schools, too top heavy, and a little late. That said, I'm shocked you didn't get an interview at Drexel or even Jeff for that matter.

Also, I completely forgot Kaiser was opening up a school. The competition is probably fierce because of their waiving tuition for the first 5 years.

You need to apply to a LOT of the places on Goro's list as well as a bunch more (just go all in this application cycle), apply day 1, and have turn around of <1 wk for secondaries, preferably 1-2 days. I would apply to a handful of DO schools at best, but that would be purely for safety.

 

[deleted962871]

Thanks for the advice everyone! I think I might add around 5 DO schools in Sep/Oct, but until then, I'll be pedal to the metal on my volunteering/MD essays/savings to make sure I can apply very broadly very quickly.

Wish me luck, and thanks again!

P.S.

RIP to my wallet and weekends - I knew thee well

 

[Faha]

When you reapply I suggest all these schools:
UIC
Mayo (both schools)
Washington University
Western Michigan
U Michigan
Ohio State
Case Western
Cincinnati
Pittsburgh
Rochester
Tulane
Vanderbilt
Miami
USF Morsani
Duke
UVA
Jefferson
Hofstra
Einstein
Mount Sinai
NYU
Dartmouth
Brown
Tufts
Boston University
Vermont

 

[gyngyn]

I think you shot too low, not too high.

 

[sab3156]

I think you shot too low, not too high.

10000% agreed. Many of those schools probably ignored OP's application due to the high MCAT. They were expecting you to get into better schools.

OP, you need to forget the DO nonsense and just hit the top schools hard.

Apply extremely top heavy, including the schools that Faha mentioned. You will get love from schools like NYU and WashU, I'm willing to bet on that.

 

[hallowmann]

10000% agreed. Many of those schools probably ignored OP's application due to the high MCAT. They were expecting you to get into better schools.

OP, you need to forget the DO nonsense and just hit the top schools hard.

Apply extremely top heavy, including the schools that Faha mentioned. You will get love from schools like NYU and WashU, I'm willing to bet on that.

I don't know, Baylor, Michigan, Case, Penn, BU, etc. I don't know that you could really argue that's too low. Sure OP's got a high MCAT, but once you're above a certain level, programs stop caring about just the score. As for Kaiser its probably competitive because of location and tuition. NYU would be too. Sure Drexel, Hofstra, etc. are probably low for OP's stats, but they should have heard something.

OP, I think it is reasonable for you to apply to more competitive programs, but you should have a broad range. Don't only apply T20.

Faha's list has a lot of good options too, but 9 out of 14 of the ones OP applied to are on that list, so obviously something is missing.

 

[deleted962871]

I don't know, Baylor, Michigan, Case, Penn, BU, etc. I don't know that you could really argue that's too low. Sure OP's got a high MCAT, but once you're above a certain level, programs stop caring about just the score. As for Kaiser its probably competitive because of location and tuition. NYU would be too. Sure Drexel, Hofstra, etc. are probably low for OP's stats, but they should have heard something.

OP, I think it is reasonable for you to apply to more competitive programs, but you should have a broad range. Don't only apply T20.

Faha's list has a lot of good options too, but 9 out of 14 of the ones OP applied to are on that list, so obviously something is missing.

I understand - I’ll be applying very broadly and to a lot of schools. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst (in this case, hope I’m as competitive as @sab3156 or @Faha think I am, prepare for being as competitive (or less) as @Goro thinks I am.)

Like I said above, when I applied I had no non clinical volunteering. I also fell victim to the classic mistake of underestimating the time and expense of the whole process, especially for the secondaries and work/activities section of the primary. As a result, I’m sure that parts of my application appeared rushed or without a unifying theme. I feel as though I’ve learned my lesson from this experience- I’ve began to save up for the upcoming cycle, I’ve continue/added volunteering, and I’ve started writing down experiences and ideas that I can begin to use to prewrite essays in the upcoming months. I’m also going to get at least one new letter from a professor I’ve had several times.

@sab3156 I appreciate your advice, but I wouldn’t consider ending up at a DO school to be a waste of my hard work. I understand that the residency opportunities for DO students are limited, and perhaps more so now that Step 1 has changed. However, I still have to weigh that against a possible delay in terms of both spending another year not doing what I really want to do (become a physician, primary care or otherwise) and against a year of delayed earnings and general uncertainty about the future. Like I said before, I prefer MD over DO, but I also strongly prefer DO over not becoming a physician at all. Besides, I won’t even think about the DO process until my MD secondaries are in the books.

I really do appreciate everyone’s advice- I was in a pretty sorry state when I first made this post, but it’s given me a lot of confidence and motivation to go forward. Have a great weekend everyone!

 

[deleted962871]

Also, to other premeds reading this, when @Goro says “the secondaries can drown you”, heed his advice. He’s right in terms of both time and finances.

 

[BASBaseball15]

@skshalala You'll crush it, keep your head up. There's light and the end of this long tunnel.

 

[DO_or_Die]

Hi everyone,

I'm likely going to have to reapply this year after receiving no IIs. I did MD-only this cycle, and am trying to figure out if it would be a good idea for me to add ~5-10 D.O. schools to my list when I apply. Here's what I'm hoping my app will look like by early June:

Stats:
cGPA: 3.62
sGPA: 3.52
(Upward trend, ~3.1-3.2 as a Freshman, ~3.8 since then)
MCAT: 526 (132/131/132/131)

ECs:
~200hrs hospital volunteering
~100-150hrs non-clinical volunteering (homeless food delivery, low-income tutoring)
~50hrs shadowing
~1800hrs bench research w/middle author publication
~1000hrs clinical research
-biochemistry TA for 2 years
-model UN for four years

My main questions are:

• Will the DO schools know I'm a reapplicant if I didn't apply DO this year?
• What is a reasonable number of D.O. schools to apply to (I'll be applying to 25-30 MD schools).
• If it's a good idea for me to apply to D.O. schools, could you recommend a few? I'd strongly prefer to be a D.O. in primary care than to be no doctor at all, but I'd still like to try to apply to the schools with the best rotations/matches.
• I know there was a recent thread in which Goro said that his school does not yield protect (/research protect?), but are there any schools that are known for doing this?

Thank you!!

I would not apply DO with a 526 MCAT.

 

[Goro]

I would not apply DO with a 526 MCAT.

With a sGPA 0.2 basis points <national median, and some 0.4 points < the Really Top Schools, OP does need to have DO schools on their list. Single metrics do not yield interviews, and tons of MD schools can afford to Ignore the OP.

 

[WaterFlow]

With a sGPA 0.2 basis points <national median, and some 0.4 points < the Really Top Schools, OP does need to have DO schools on their list. Single metrics do not yield interviews, and tons of MD schools can afford to Ignore the OP.

I think OP will get MD interviews and acceptances next cycle if OP improves volunteer hours and is able to write and talk about experiences passionately.

However, since OP will need to reapply, the safest option is to include DO schools if OP wants to start medical school sooner rather than later. If OP doesn't want to include DO schools then OP should be ok with the possibility of having to apply a 3rd time.

 

[Goro]

I think OP will get MD interviews and acceptances next cycle if OP improves volunteer hours and is able to write and talk about experiences passionately.

However, since OP will need to reapply, the safest option is to include DO schools if OP wants to start medical school sooner than later. If OP doesn't want to include DO schools then OP should be ok with the possibility of having to apply a 3rd time.

There ARE MD schools that reward reinvention, but in a seller's market, beggars can't be choosy. Again, do not be blinded by that stellar MCAT score.

 

[deleted962871]

I won’t be blinded, not after what happened this time. 5-10 DO schools it is! Plus a LOT of MD schools (40+; I’ve already started rewriting primary material and will soon start with the secondaries).
Like I said above, hoping for the best and preparing for the worst.

(also, not counting on it but it would be clutch if Drexel or Einstein came through at the last minute lol)

Thanks everyone!

 

[WaterFlow]

I won’t be blinded, not after what happened this time. 5-10 DO schools it is! Plus a LOT of MD schools (40+; I’ve already started rewriting primary material and will soon start with the secondaries).
Like I said above, hoping for the best and preparing for the worst.

(also, not counting on it but it would be clutch if Drexel or Einstein came through at the last minute lol)

Thanks everyone!

Send Drexel and Einstein update letters (if they accept update letters) expressing high interest. Point out something specific in their programs that really excites you.

 

[_Cloud9]

Incredible MCAT OP! Great GPA as well. I second, apply to MD again but you need to be strategic. Apply early, to appropriate schools within your range, and make sure your personal statements and secondaries are all PERFECT, strong, proofread, reviewed.

 

[Splenda88]

To not have a single interview invite with these stats, there must be something OP is not telling us.


You should have applied to Wash U since they are obsessed about high MCAT score.

 

[deleted962871]

To not have a single interview invite with these stats, there must be something OP is not telling us.


You should have applied to Wash U since they are obsessed about high MCAT score.

I wish there was something I’m leaving out, but I really can’t think of anything. I have no IAs and my letter writers like me. I talked to my premed advisor in December, and she was surprised I hadn’t gotten any IIs as well - she looked over my primary and told me “this is a good application”.

All I can do now is improve ECs, get another letter, and put a lot of time into essays.

Even if it was unlikely that I wouldn’t get an II this cycle, unlikely things happen sometimes. I’ll be putting my best foot forward this cycle and hoping it doesn’t happen again.

 

[Splenda88]

I wish there was something I’m leaving out, but I really can’t think of anything. I have no IAs and my letter writers like me. I talked to my premed advisor in December, and she was surprised I hadn’t gotten any IIs as well - she looked over my primary and told me “this is a good application”.

All I can do now is improve ECs, get another letter, and put a lot of time into essays.

Even if it was unlikely that I wouldn’t get an II this cycle, unlikely things happen sometimes. I’ll be putting my best foot forward this cycle and hoping it doesn’t happen again.

In that case, you should make sure your LOR writers REALLY like you.

I have a friend that had multiple straight out rejections and was waitlisted. When he called the places he was waitlisted, one of the admission coordinator was kind enough to tell him that if he does not get accepted that cycle anywhere, he should not use the physics professor letter next cycle... He did not get accepted at all that cycle.

He applied the following cycle without that letter. It was the same application overall with a few more hours of ECs. He got accepted to at least 4 schools.

He still does not get why that professor tried to screw him up after getting an A- in the class and has been to his office hours multiple times

 

[Super Admissions]

I would not apply DO given your stats. Your MCAT can compensate for your GPA, especially given the upward trend. It is difficult to say exactly what happened, but I am quite surprised you didn’t even receive interviews. I would advise you to talk to your pre-med advisor or a third party that knows the process well about your entire application and find out what went wrong. If you took some time off before applying again, you could likely get into a solid program.

 

[insaiyan-premed]

A 526 troll.

 

[deleted962871]

A 526 troll.

rude lmao