Ross University School of Medicine MATCH 2016 Results!

[Psai]

Who this law affects is the off-shore no name schools that sprout like candida in the oral cavity of an HIV patient.

You're from ross though?

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[username456789]

What?

You ask that we base our opinions of IMGs on their knowledge and acumen. We have been, for years, and much of the time it ain't pretty.

 

[673441]

At this point I'm getting a strong wiff of personality disorder coming from this dude delusional/ narcissistic. Most likely why he's in the carib.

Ya well I'm getting a whiff of jerk from you. Where do you get off insulting me? I have maintained professionalism throughout and you consistently berate me on here. If you are a psychiatrist as your username suggests, you obviously don't understand consideration and etiquette.


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[deleted731525]

this thread sounds promising....

Called it!

 

[Ismet]

This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and professional. Thanks.

 

[piii]

Called it!

You're the prophet SDN needs but doesn't deserve..

 

[maxplankton]

I feel bad for anesthesiology and radiology...just a few years ago they were some of the most competitive specialties that even the small and community programs were getting good US grads. Now it just sad to see how those programs had to settle for IMG. The medicine merry-go-round is really in full effect with these two specialties...

I can't speak for rads but there isn't a single competitive anesthesiology program on that list. Undoubtedly, the competitiveness in anesthesia is dropping, generally, but to get into a "top 20" program you still gotta have solid stats. My class (USMD) matched 6 into anesthesia and all were top 25% and of the step I scores I know, all were >240. Top tier anesthesia is not yet a foreign med grad destination.

 

[Psai]

I can't speak for rads but there isn't a single competitive anesthesiology program on that list. Undoubtedly, the competitiveness in anesthesia is dropping, generally, but to get into a "top 20" program you still gotta have solid stats. My class (USMD) matched 6 into anesthesia and all were top 25% and of the step I scores I know, all were >240. Top tier anesthesia is not yet a foreign med grad destination.

Top tier anesthesia is no joke although probably a little easier than top tier im

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

ehhh... A lot of IM and FM spots on that list, with a few anesthesiology and peds programs.

Imagine the super high USMLE scores and lackluster rotations and ****ty living situations and hoops to jump through that most of the students probably had to endure to barely squeeze by and get into such programs.

A US student MD or DO that barely passes their step here can most likely match into IM or FM.

A carib applicant from this list OTOH... most likely matched with 230 and above on their Step.

If only they had stayed in the states...

Paging @the argus !

Let's have some fun!!!! TURN UP!

 

[tymont12]

The same tired old tune is played and has been played since the inception of SDN. "Caribbeans got about 5 years max before they are pushed out of the picture... " -says every SDN'er ever! It's getting old... Just accept those who are IMG for their knowledge and acumen, not their place of graduation. Enough already with this 2-bit discrimination tactic.

Edit:
Also, Devry in all of their glory is a very smart business. They don't eff around with their money. Granted they have pending litigation for other universities, but look at this way, would a for profit college continue investments into an offshore, high-risk asset if they didn't think long term recuperation was possible? Also, this is highly political whether others want to acknowledge this or not. To protect their asset they have a very nice budget for those good old lobbyists in Washington. Why do you think Texas is currently being sued for their lock out of IMGs? Ross continues getting hefty investments from Devry evidenced by their newly built 20M student center. I would be worried if investment was not taking place and their was no TP in their restrooms. Then I would start to worry.

Devry's long-term recuperation is not built off of you becoming a full-fledged physician. It is built off of getting kids to gleefully write away $200,000 or more in federal loans. And based on their attrition rate, they are clearly poaching people who have no real potential for graduating just to get their money. As long as they can paint the picture of being a 'last resort' for people, they will make money.

I'm not saying you can't turn lemons into lemonade, but recognize it for what it is. For-profit schools have been increasingly in the hot seat for their tactics and misrepresented job placement numbers. Ross is no different.

 

[piii]

Devry's long-term recuperation is not built off of you becoming a full-fledged physician. It is built off of getting kids to gleefully write away $200,000 or more in federal loans. And based on their attrition rate, they are clearly poaching people who have no real potential for graduating just to get their money. As long as they can paint the picture of being a 'last resort' for people, they will make money.

I'm not saying you can't make lemons from lemonade, but recognize it for what it is. For-profit schools have been increasingly in the hot seat for their tactics and misrepresented job placement numbers. Ross is no different.

The hands down top priority of every Caribbean school is to make money and profit.

 

[GimpGenius]

Oh so my 3.1 because of full time work and supporting of my family with a 26 MCAT precludes me from being a better doctor? Consider my situation and compare me to the rich kid with mommy and daddy catering to their every need who got a 3.8 and a 30 MCAT. The rich kid gets in because his numbers look better but I don't and my situation is irrelevant. But you're right, this discussion is definitely a dead-end since the culture of down-right intellectual discrimination is rampant in this forum.

Way to generalize after calling someone out for generalizing. There are quite a few non-traditional students in MD/DO programs in the U.S., many of whom had similar or more difficult circumstances than yours. How exactly are you making a reasoned point here? I'm genuinely curious.

 

[deleted564680]

I can't speak for rads but there isn't a single competitive anesthesiology program on that list. Undoubtedly, the competitiveness in anesthesia is dropping, generally, but to get into a "top 20" program you still gotta have solid stats. My class (USMD) matched 6 into anesthesia and all were top 25% and of the step I scores I know, all were >240. Top tier anesthesia is not yet a foreign med grad destination.

For rads, the Ross matches are similar to anesthesia...most of them aren't even top half programs.
The best of the bunch are Case/UH and Gainesville which are ~top 50 programs and Yale which is somewhere around top 30-40. Yale has a history of taking multiple Carib grads each year though for some reason.

 

[piii]

For rads, the Ross matches are similar to anesthesia...most of them aren't even top half programs.
The best of the bunch are Case/UH and Gainesville which are ~top 50 programs and Yale which is somewhere around top 30-40. Yale has a history of taking multiple Carib grads each year though for some reason.

Is there some concrete ranking of residency programs I'm unaware of?

 

[deleted564680]

Is there some concrete ranking of residency programs I'm unaware of?

Nothing is concrete but I would say it's pretty accurate general consensus.

 

[DRsmartypants]

I feel bad for anesthesiology and radiology...just a few years ago they were some of the most competitive specialties that even the small and community programs were getting good US grads. Now it just sad to see how those programs had to settle for IMG. The medicine merry-go-round is really in full effect with these two specialties...

I don't want to insinuate that IMGs are worse then AMGs, but if I were to guess, the average AMG is probably of higher quality then the average IMG which scares me when IMGs are entering specialties like radiology which effect not only the image of radiologists(and probably their pay in the long-run), but the impact on the patients. I really hope these guys know their stuff before PGY-2 Radiology.

 

[Psai]

For rads, the Ross matches are similar to anesthesia...most of them aren't even top half programs.
The best of the bunch are Case/UH and Gainesville which are ~top 50 programs and Yale which is somewhere around top 30-40. Yale has a history of taking multiple Carib grads each year though for some reason.

From what i remember, the anesthesia programs are bottom of the barrel except rochester which is solid

 

[GlennGuglia]

And this is a different tone that where this thread started. Definitely more realistic portray of how difficult the road is. No one can argue with what you describe above (except the part of US students having a ton of second chances; maybe 2-3 is more realistic).

Also, step 1 >230 (and especially over 260) is unrealistic for the average medical student. Just saying.

I know the Caribbean road is difficult. I'm sorry that we rain on your parade when you find data that gives you hope. That's not the objective. The goal is to make sure any lurking pre-med students trying to make an informed decision understand the full picture.

I have have to defend Lazymed here. I applied three times with several alternate lists before finally getting an MD allopathic acceptance (30 MCAT, 3.7 average stuff). After the first time through with no acceptances, the standard advice I heard from everyone was to "head to the Caribbean" and everyone was quick to offer up these anecdotal inspirational stories about someone they knew doing great things now out of the Caribbean. I have no doubt there are cases of this but it's far from typical from what I've seen.

 

[Gorne]

Going to the Caribbean regardless of which school will always be looked down upon. Be honest with yourself, would you have gone if you were a more competitive applicant? Nobody and I mean nobody goes to the Caribbean as a first choice. You know this, AMG's know this, IMG's know this, ADCOM's know this.

The only person I ever knew who went Caribbean had absolutely no business being a physician, she was a party girl with rich parents that never scored higher than a 24 MCAT. It frightens me that one day she may practice medicine.
These are the people that go to the Caribbean and no matter how much you may want to change that, it will always be the case.

 

[673441]

Going to the Caribbean regardless of which school will always be looked down upon. Be honest with yourself, would you have gone if you were a more competitive applicant? Nobody and I mean nobody goes to the Caribbean as a first choice. You know this, AMG's know this, IMG's know this, ADCOM's know this.

The only person I ever knew who went Caribbean had absolutely no business being a physician, she was a party girl with rich parents that never scored higher than a 24 MCAT. It frightens me that one day she may practice medicine.
These are the people that go to the Caribbean and no matter how much you may want to change that, it will always be the case.

I have no doubt that some people who go to the Caribbean have no business becoming doctors. But you have to really wonder how Ross placed these physicians into any spots if we are "so bad." Were a cut of a different fabric when it comes to the Caribbean schools. Please believe that. RUSM alums are chief residents, directors of programs and associate professors at other medical schools in circulation... So it is very annoying to hear from people who know nothing about the progress that my school is making and how well perceived we are by PDs. This is not what Ross has been telling me but actual students who entered the match and PDs themselves!


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[deleted564680]

Going to the Caribbean regardless of which school will always be looked down upon. Be honest with yourself, would you have gone if you were a more competitive applicant? Nobody and I mean nobody goes to the Caribbean as a first choice. You know this, AMG's know this, IMG's know this, ADCOM's know this.

The only person I ever knew who went Caribbean had absolutely no business being a physician, she was a party girl with rich parents that never scored higher than a 24 MCAT. It frightens me that one day she may practice medicine.
These are the people that go to the Caribbean and no matter how much you may want to change that, it will always be the case.

I agree completely but I did meet an attending once who went to the Carib as a no. 1 choice because he was 18 and it was the only school that would let him in at that young age.

 

[Gorne]

I have no doubt that some people who go to the Caribbean have no business becoming doctors. But you have to really wonder how Ross placed these physicians into any spots if we are "so bad." Were a cut of a different fabric when it comes to the Caribbean schools. Please believe that. RUSM alums are chief residents, directors of programs and associate professors at other medical schools in circulation... So it is very annoying to hear from people who know nothing about the progress that my school is making and how well perceived we are by PDs. This is not what Ross has been telling me but actual students who entered the match and PDs themselves!


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I admire your pride in your program, that's a good thing regardless of what you hear. All you can do is go out and kick ass and when people ask where u went to school say Ross. There isn't much Ross can do or say or publish that's gonna change opinions, all they can hope to do is crank out competent Drs and to do that they need competent students.

 

[Giovanotto]

To be fair, Todd went to the Caribbean and he's a surgeon now, so....

 

[W19]

What ought to be focused on is not the couple of good matches but the 20+ people who just got prelim years (esp prelim surgery) and are basically going to have to try again next year. A lot of these spots are potentially dead end. This is the real travesty with offshore schools -- not that nobody makes it --but that between a high attrition rate and lots of dead ends, lots of people will spend years of their lives and hundreds of thousands of dollars and still not become a doctor. And this is at one of the big three -- the other competitors in this group don't even fare as well.

The system is unfair to FMG... US students can get a license to practice medicine in many states after 1-year post grad training, so why use a different standard for FMG?

Anyway, I have said that in another thread... The only Caribbean schools that are worth going to are located in Puerto Rico.

 

[FindMeOnTheLinks]

The system is unfair to FMG... US students can get a license to practice medicine in many states after 1-year post grad training, so why use a different standard for FMG?

Fairly certain anybody who completes PGY1 can become licensed. The problem for many FMG's who only complete a prelim year is that they can't get a job - nobody wants to hire someone with incomplete training. That's where the dead end is.

Edit: and this is considering the fact that in many states it's not possible to become licensed after pgy1 (thanks WingedOx). Even in states where it is possible, still a dead end to practice in most scenarios, unless you are willing to set up your own practice for general medicine in an underserved area or something.

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[WingedOx]

Fairly certain anybody who completes PGY1 can become licensed.

Varies by state. It's 2 years where I'm at. I didn't really have time to moonlight until PG3 so no big loss.

 

[Law2Doc]

I agree completely but I did meet an attending once who went to the Carib as a no. 1 choice because he was 18 and it was the only school that would let him in at that young age.

Ah but this shows a level of impatience and immaturity that in and of itself is really not a positive attribute for practicing medicine in the US, certainly not a justification for choosing offshore. In this country it's been determined that we want our physicians to do college first, for a variety of very good reasons. Being in a rush and bypassing this is not something you should be applauding.

Additionally years ago getting a good residency from offshore was much more realistic so depending how old this attending is the decision may not even be comparable. Investing in Blockbuster video was also a good idea decades ago, but now, it's a sucker play. Offshore is similar.

 

[Stagg737]

Legit question. Somewhere near the top of the list it says someone matched anesthesiology as a PGY-3, anyone know what the deal is with that? Is that someone that was kicked out/left residency and had to go through the match again or something?

Is there some concrete ranking of residency programs I'm unaware of?

Not really concrete, but doximity has "rankings" of programs. It's not concrete, but it'll give you a good reference for which are top tier programs vs. mediocre vs. weak in each specialty. You can also sort by region, publications, and number of people sub-specializing/doing fellowships. Not a bad tool for those unfamiliar with the programs.

 

[WingedOx]

Not really concrete, but doximity has "rankings" of programs. It's not concrete, but it'll give you a good reference for which are top tier programs vs. mediocre vs. weak in each specialty. You can also sort by region, publications, and number of people sub-specializing/doing fellowships. Not a bad tool for those unfamiliar with the programs.

Not a good tool either. There's nothing to back up the rankings besides mass opinion, really, and the rankings are more or less correlated with the rep of the parent institution rather than the actual specific training qualities of the actual program.

Ask me to rank the programs that are local to me and I could give you a ranking and the very specific reasons why said program is placed the way it is. Ask me to rank programs in Texas or California, and I'm basically going to make a guess based on what I've heard or well-known people there... Most of what makes up their rankings are people doing the latter.

 

[username456789]

Were a cut of a different fabric when it comes to the Caribbean schools.

Reminds me of the classic joke:

Q: What's better than winning a silver medal at the Special Olympics?

A: Not being ******ed


Awaiting the SJW outrage

 

[673441]

Reminds me of the classic joke:

Q: What's better than winning a silver medal at the Special Olympics?

A: Not being ******ed


Awaiting the SJW outrage

You're terrible

 

[username456789]

You're terrible

Gracias.

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

Reminds me of the classic joke:

Q: What's better than winning a silver medal at the Special Olympics?

A: Not being ******ed


Awaiting the SJW outrage

HA! GOTEEEEEEEM

 

[673441]

Gracias.

I'm really at a loss for how unprofessional future health care professionals really are. Differing opinions aside, this is really just sad and sends a negative perception to our future patients who may lurk on these forums. You are so far out of line to make a joke like that. It's appalling.

 

[Stagg737]

Not a good tool either. There's nothing to back up the rankings besides mass opinion, really, and the rankings are more or less correlated with the rep of the parent institution rather than the actual specific training qualities of the actual program.

Ask me to rank the programs that are local to me and I could give you a ranking and the very specific reasons why said program is placed the way it is. Ask me to rank programs in Texas or California, and I'm basically going to make a guess based on what I've heard or well-known people there... Most of what makes up their rankings are people doing the latter.

I mean, sure for the reputation part, but there's more that goes into the ranking than just that. Besides, it depends on what the individual is looking for out of a program. If someone doesn't care about research, then all of the rankings which include research funding are going to be less useful. If someone wants to practice rural med, then the rankings will also likely be less useful as a lot of the 'top tier' programs are closer to major metro areas. My point was it's not useful for differentiating the #1 program from the #5, but it is useful in differentiating a top 5 institution from an average program. Although I agree that the whole reputation thing can skew it either way.

Also, still wondering about that PGY-3 match...

 

[WingedOx]

I mean, sure for the reputation part, but there's more that goes into the ranking than just that. Besides, it depends on what the individual is looking for out of a program. If someone doesn't care about research, then all of the rankings which include research funding are going to be less useful. If someone wants to practice rural med, then the rankings will also likely be less useful as a lot of the 'top tier' programs are closer to major metro areas. My point was it's not useful for differentiating the #1 program from the #5, but it is useful in differentiating a top 5 institution from an average program. Although I agree that the whole reputation thing can skew it either way.

Also, still wondering about that PGY-3 match...

That's the thing though... not really. I see a few programs highly listed that make me roll my eyes for reasons that their program in my specialty doesn't match the quality of the rest of the hospital, or programs that have taken a hit with an exodus of faculty recently, etc. At the same time I see a number of places doing the opposite. Reading a list of residencies in a ranking isn't really any different than trying to read a match list. You're getting far less useful information than you think you are.

 

[DOFOSHO]

how bout those NPs

 

[username456789]

I'm really at a loss for how unprofessional future health care professionals really are. Differing opinions aside, this is really just sad and sends a negative perception to our future patients who may lurk on these forums. You are so far out of line to make a joke like that. It's appalling.

Disconnect yourself, for a moment, from your utter disgust and contempt and you will see it was an apt analogy in the form of a joke.

 

[Stagg737]

That's the thing though... not really. I see a few programs highly listed that make me roll my eyes for reasons that their program in my specialty doesn't match the quality of the rest of the hospital, or programs that have taken a hit with an exodus of faculty recently, etc. At the same time I see a number of places doing the opposite. Reading a list of residencies in a ranking isn't really any different than trying to read a match list. You're getting far less useful information than you think you are.

By that logic you could make the exact same argument about tiers of medical schools, but I don't see anyone arguing against which schools are top 5-10 vs. mid-tier. Like I said, it's all subjective based on what the individual is looking for and rankings typically skew towards a specific kind of school/program (big name with high volumes of publications and lots of $$$ for research).

 

[username456789]

FWIW, Johns Hopkins, for example, is a pretty terrible program in my field.

 

[WingedOx]

By that logic you could make the exact same argument about tiers of medical schools, but I don't see anyone arguing against which schools are top 5-10 vs. mid-tier. Like I said, it's all subjective based on what the individual is looking for and rankings typically skew towards a specific kind of school/program (big name with high volumes of publications and lots of $$$ for research).

No one is arguing that there aren't specific tiers in quality of programs. However, Doximity simply isn't a particularly useful tool to tell you which is which.

 

[deleted564680]

I don't know about other fields, but for radiology Doximity fits pretty well. Sure, any program 20-40 or 50-75 could be interchangeable, but for the most part it puts them in relatively good tiers of programs. The top programs fit the consensus of what I've always heard in rads and puts some programs that arent as strong as their name lower down like they should be. Yeah, it's not great, but it's something.

 

[673441]

Disconnect yourself, for a moment, from your utter disgust and contempt and you will see it was an apt analogy in the form of a joke.

My contempt and utter disgust? I understand the point you were trying to make. Your attempt was to put me down and in doing so also putting down the mentally disabled.


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[Stagg737]

No one is arguing that there aren't specific tiers in quality of programs. However, Doximity simply isn't a particularly useful tool to tell you which is which.

What source that med students can access would you recommend then? I'd like to get at least some general ideas without having to personally poll people in the field, and as Cubsfan said, it's the best I've been able to find.

 

[Law2Doc]

The problem with Doximity is that at the various programs I have been affiliated with, the administration sends us numerous emails to please complete positive surveys on the programs and make the program look better. Not exactly scientific. So Doximitys rankings really just tell you which programs administrative people are the pushiest. Which may not really be a positive.

 

[Law2Doc]

What source that med students can access would you recommend then? I'd like to get at least some general ideas without having to personally poll people in the field, and as Cubsfan said, it's the best I've been able to find.

You get yourself a mentor or two in your desired field. It's all word of mouth.

 

[piii]

No one is arguing that there aren't specific tiers in quality of programs. However, Doximity simply isn't a particularly useful tool to tell you which is which.

+1 anyone saying "XYZ residency is ranked in the 20s" is making things up

 

[Law2Doc]

...Your attempt was to put me down and in doing so also putting down the mentally disabled...

You pretty much walked into another joke here...

 

[WingedOx]

You get yourself a mentor or two in your desired field. It's all word of mouth.

Yeah, this. No one knows everything especially when you're looking at a broad range of programs across a large geographic area, but I'm thankful that both my home program PD and clerkship director were knowledgeable and brutally honest about the various programs I was interested in.

 

[tymont12]

My contempt and utter disgust? I understand the point you were trying to make. Your attempt was to put me down and in doing so also putting down the mentally disabled.


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There's been a recent trend of people posting here who are hypersensitive to anyone questioning their opinion and also coming across as a SJW...