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Hospitalized

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...Because this is the only scenario in my life when I'm reading something on the computer and I won't be allowed to CTRL+F.
 
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premedkid1994

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I honestly think CARS shouldn't even be a part of the test. Like I don't understand how reading comprehension should stop someone reaching med school. I'm always scared that I'm going to do well on all the other sections and flunk CARS (English=second language).
It should just be sciences imo
 

aalamruad

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I honestly think CARS shouldn't even be a part of the test. Like I don't understand how reading comprehension should stop someone reaching med school. I'm always scared that I'm going to do well on all the other sections and flunk CARS (English=second language).
It should just be sciences imo
Reading comprehension is incredibly important..
 
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premedkid1994

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Reading comprehension is incredibly important..

You have to have reading comprehension skills to do well in every other section..
Why make a whole new section for it?
Furthermore, students whose first language is English usually do a lot better in it than students who came to united states when they were 5+ years old, like myself.
 

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CTRL-F is actually a waste of time on CARS. You are better off without it if you know the big themes of the passage. I also think CARS is not fair. Pre-meds do not emphasize reading throughout their college curriculum which is why this section feels like a slap in the face. But I do believe it has some benefits. CARS is purely logic whereas the other sections emphasize content. CARS heavily contributes to standardizing an exam that is already considered very "standardized" (in other words, an exam that evens out the playing field).
 
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Hospitalized

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CTRL-F is actually a waste of time on CARS. You are better off without it if you know the big themes of the passage. I also think CARS is not fair. Pre-meds do not emphasize reading throughout their college curriculum which is why this section feels like a slap in the face. But I do believe it has some benefits. CARS is purely logic whereas the other sections emphasize content. CARS heavily contributes to standardizing an exam that is already considered very "standardized" (in other words, an exam that evens out the playing field).

I don't have a problem with CARS in itself. I actually find it very useful and try to learn from the passages I read. But when there's a question that asks "what did the author mean by x word/phrase", I think it should be fair game to jump directly back to that phrase. Obviously this isn't about regurgitation the phrase, it's about understanding the context. I'm just saying it would save me a couple minutes every test if I could jump directly to some certain things. Sometimes I do remember exactly when/where a phrase was mentioned, but to say it would be a waste of time is a bit dismissive IMO. Would it help that much? I'm not quite sure, but having the option would be nice. I'm someone who is very efficient with a computer and grew up using one, so CTRL+F is just a part of how I use a computer. These kinds of skills should be rewarded in a health system that is becoming largely McDonaldized (okay I'm stretching the use of this term, but technology is extremely prevalent, e.g some physician chart from their phones). I use the equivalent of CTRL+F in medical charts to search for a lab result, imaging, diagnosis, etc.
 
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aalamruad

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You have to have reading comprehension skills to do well in every other section..
Why make a whole new section for it?
Furthermore, students whose first language is English usually do a lot better in it than students who came to united states when they were 5+ years old, like myself.
CARS tests a different kind of reading comprehension than the other sections do
 
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premedkid1994

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It's not changing regardless of whether you like it or not. Soooo...

I never said it was changing. Furthermore, you don't work for AAMC and develop tests so I'm pretty sure you don't know what they have planned for the future.
And you never know. I mean I'm pretty sure people didn't know the writing section was going to get taken off 20 years ago. I'm pretty sure nobody was expecting the psych section to be added. I'm pretty sure nobody was expecting them to change the whole interface of the exam. I'm pretty sure nobody was expecting them to go towards more experimental and physiologically-relevant passages.
 

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I never said it was changing. Furthermore, you don't work for AAMC and develop tests so I'm pretty sure you don't know what they have planned for the future.
And you never know. I mean I'm pretty sure people didn't know the writing section was going to get taken off 20 years ago. I'm pretty sure nobody was expecting the psych section to be added. I'm pretty sure nobody was expecting them to change the whole interface of the exam. I'm pretty sure nobody was expecting them to go towards more experimental and physiologically-relevant passages.

Brah, I'm replying to the OP so relax. Also, you don't know if I work for the AAMC or not-- I'd refrain from assumption if I were you. At any rate, I understand OP's concern but fact of the matter is that such a feature never was nor is available at this time. Test takers just gotta deal.
 

Hospitalized

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Brah, I'm replying to the OP so relax. Also, you don't know if I work for the AAMC or not-- I'd refrain from assumption if I were you. At any rate, I understand OP's concern but fact of the matter is that such a feature never was nor is available at this time. Test takers just gotta deal.

You're not a very fun person to vent around. Clearly I'm very serious based on the tags of this thread. Lighten up.
 

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I feel like they should definitely make CARS less "stupid." Lemme give you an example of how ridiculous it can be (based on an example someone else posted):
Question: How does the room feel?
A) Cold
B) Frigid
C) Cold and frigid
D) Cold but not frigid

See what I'm getting at? It should be less wishy-washy and more on actual understanding than an active attempt to trick us poor premeds
 
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ZPakEffect

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You have to have reading comprehension skills to do well in every other section..
Why make a whole new section for it?
Furthermore, students whose first language is English usually do a lot better in it than students who came to united states when they were 5+ years old, like myself.

Came to the US from third-world at 8 years old knowing zero English. Scored 100th percentile on verbal. Stop making excuses.
 
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premedkid1994

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Came to the US from third-world at 8 years old knowing zero English. Scored 100th percentile on verbal. Stop making excuses.

n=1
I'm not making excuses actually. CARS is my second highest scored section on fl. Just took nextstep fl 2 and got 125/127/126/129
congrats on your 100th percentile score, but everybody is entitled to their own opinions. I'm not making excuses, I'm stating my opinion. Obviously you need some reading comprehension help yourself regardless of what score you got (if you even got that), since you can't even comprehend the main point of my argument.
 

ZPakEffect

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n=1
I'm not making excuses actually. CARS is my second highest scored section on fl. Just took nextstep fl 2 and got 125/127/126/129
congrats on your 100th percentile score, but everybody is entitled to their own opinions. I'm not making excuses, I'm stating my opinion. Obviously you need some reading comprehension help yourself regardless of what score you got (if you even got that), since you can't even comprehend the main point of my argument.

I understood your argument perfectly. It's a terrible argument and wholly lacking in supporting evidence. Even if it were true that first-generation immigrants are at a disadvantage in CARS, that should not be a cause for removing the section. We should not compromise the standards for our physicians simply because certain demographics might not measure up.
 

premedkid1994

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I understood your argument perfectly. It's a terrible argument and wholly lacking in supporting evidence. Even if it were true that first-generation immigrants are at a disadvantage in CARS, that should not be a cause for removing the section. We should not compromise the standards for our physicians simply because certain demographics might not measure up.

you really think CARS is on the same level of importance as the science sections? Just curious..
You think a 125/130/125/125 shows a lot? Thats a mcat score of 505 and that person will get admission into at least a DO school.
But lets say if someone's second language was english and they got a score of 126/124/125/125 for a total of 500, and the 505 student gets admission over the 500 mcat student.
Do you really think the premed who scored a 124 would of made a worse doctor? That he/she had a higher chance of passing the USMLE which has no reading comprehension? Some students don't even practice CARS section and kill it. Furthermore every mcat section requires reading comprehension skills, so I don't quite understand the point of CARS being a whole different section itself. I personally think taking CARS out wouldn't drop the standard, it'll make it higher. I know a lot of people who rely on doing well on the CARS portion (130+) to take care of mediocre scores in other sections.
 

ZPakEffect

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you really think CARS is on the same level of importance as the science sections? Just curious..
You think a 125/130/125/125 shows a lot? Thats a mcat score of 505 and that person will get admission into at least a DO school.
But lets say if someone's second language was english and they got a score of 126/124/125/125 for a total of 500, and the 505 student gets admission over the 500 mcat student.
Do you really think the premed who scored a 124 would of made a worse doctor? That he/she had a higher chance of passing the USMLE which has no reading comprehension? Some students don't even practice CARS section and kill it. Furthermore every mcat section requires reading comprehension skills, so I don't quite understand the point of CARS being a whole different section itself. I personally think taking CARS out wouldn't drop the standard, it'll make it higher. I know a lot of people who rely on doing well on the CARS portion (130+) to take care of mediocre scores in other sections.

I think CARS is the MOST important of the sections because it more directly and strenuously tests Critical Analysis and Reasoning Skills than the other sections. While "reading comprehension" is necessary to perform well on CARS, it is merely the first step. Canadian medical schools hold this position as well and have the most stringent requirements for CARS.
 

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Yeah there's also the strongest correlation between verbal scores and success in 3rd and 4th year in med school or steps.

I forgot which. But yeah adcoms care about CARS for sure
 

JB50

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The people that love the CARS are those that do well in it. Those that hate it are those that don't. There was a student I knew who just got a 127,122,127,127. Talk about hating the CARS....
 

Hospitalized

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Yeah there's also the strongest correlation between verbal scores and success in 3rd and 4th year in med school or steps.

I forgot which. But yeah adcoms care about CARS for sure

From Wiki:

The first section assesses problem-solving ability in general chemistry and physics while the third section evaluates these abilities in the areas of biology and organic chemistry. The Critical Analysis and Reasoning Skills section evaluates the ability to understand, evaluate, and apply information and arguments presented in prose style. The Biological Sciences section most directly correlates to success on the USMLE Step 1 exam, with a correlation coefficient of .553 vs .491 for Physical Sciences and .397 for Verbal Reasoning.[17] Predictably, MCAT composite scores also correlate with USMLE Step 1 success.[18]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_College_Admission_Test
 
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Chromium Surfer

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From Wiki:

The first section assesses problem-solving ability in general chemistry and physics while the third section evaluates these abilities in the areas of biology and organic chemistry. The Critical Analysis and Reasoning Skills section evaluates the ability to understand, evaluate, and apply information and arguments presented in prose style. The Biological Sciences section most directly correlates to success on the USMLE Step 1 exam, with a correlation coefficient of .553 vs .491 for Physical Sciences and .397 for Verbal Reasoning.[17] Predictably, MCAT composite scores also correlate with USMLE Step 1 success.[18]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_College_Admission_Test
CARS was correlated with something important lol.
 

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The reason the CARS section is considered the toughest by many is because most students struggle with their timing. Time is very tight on the cars section, you basically have to read the passage and answer 7 questions in 9 minutes at most. Also, most people find it hard to focus when reading these boring passages with tough vocabulary and jargon. These two factors can sink your cars score, so a lot of practice is needed to master it. However, since There's no content on cars, the section is usually neglected where people think they can do well on it without practicing, and therefore eventually ending up bombing that section.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 

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I did terribly (125) but I didn't find the passage challenging. Boring? Some. But tough vocab and jargon? Never. The passages are never a problem.

It's just the questions and logic of the answers. I mean I didn't shoot for 132/131 because when I did the AAMC I didn't agree with the reasoning of the ones I missed, like at all. I thought the other 3 would save me (they kinda did but the final score was frustrating to look at). So I went in the real thing expecting only some of those would emerge, and I tried to think the "AAMC way" as much as possible: even if I thought an answer was correct I speculated what the AAMC thought would be correct and picked accordingly. That whole practice was absurd for me personally. But anyway, it was my fault to take CARS halfassedly when my thought process had yet been molded. I deserved that.

It tested an ability all right. But is that ability useful? Does it actually test your ability to think or your ability to take tests?

The other sections can be mastered just by acquiring knowledge with few practices (I did that). Only CARS requires pure practice. What does it say about that section?
 
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JB50

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I did terribly (125)

A 125 isn't terrible... you've been reading too much on SDN. If you pulled 127-128+ in every other section, youd get a 509 or higher which tells anyone with half a brain you're adequate enough to pass. A 125 is 56th percentile. You did better than half of the people that take the exam in just the cars. chill out mane.

I do agree the CARS is a bit ridiculous. For me, the problem doesn't come in the test but in the usefulness of what it's assessing. My patients aren't going to be writing to me nor will I have to decipher their meaning based on how they write. I will have to read body language and tone of voice. That's why it irritates me. In addition, my medical school textbooks and professors aren't going to write like the cars section. I guess I just have trouble seeing the usefulness in the CARS. I 100% can see the other sections as that is how we are going to have to think about the information we know/learn.
 
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