Sexuality

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I don't think being LGBT will give you bonus points unless you have some major and well documented hardship as a result; for instance if your family write you off when you come out, and you were homeless for a period etc. but being lgbtq alone does not make one more special, as is not any different than been hetero, since is Medical School, not an Adult film acting job 🙂
 
MrMe123 said:
I received a good amount of pressure from my colleagues / advisors when deciding to include my orientation in my application. A bit of research, even on sdn, shows some bigoted views from faculty/students regarding disclosure of orientation within the past several years. I doubt people are currently going out of their way to fake being gay for med school apps.
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At that you make a point, while a school as whole might be very LGBTQ friendly some Adcoms have lots of members, and you cant control the individual views or bias of some, so it is a safer bet to cautious about disclosure! '
 
malick1 said:
I don't think being LGBT will give you bonus points unless you have some major and well documented hardship as a result; for instance if your family write you off when you come out, and you were homeless for a period etc. but being lgbtq alone does not make one more special, as is not any different than been hetero, since is Medical School, not an Adult film acting job 🙂
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Being in an underprivileged minority does provide advantages for someone entering into a medical profession. A minority individual can have stronger cultural competency for their minority group, which may therefore affect the quality of their treatment to that group. I've had plenty of experiences in doctor's offices / hospitals where I've raised an eyebrow at something a nurse / physician has said or done in the context of my sexuality. I'm not saying that a hetero/cis doctor can't learn how to be a good physician for LGBT patients, but it takes training to have a strong understanding of LGBT culture, which an LGBT physician naturally, to some degree, possesses.
 
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MrMe123 said:
Being in an underprivileged minority does provide advantages for someone entering into a medical profession. A minority individual can have stronger cultural competency for their minority group, which may therefore affect the quality of their treatment to that group. I've had plenty of experiences in doctor's offices / hospitals where I've raised an eyebrow at something a nurse / physician has said or done in the context of my sexuality. I'm not saying that a cis doctor can't learn how to be a good physician for LGBT patients, but it takes training to have a strong understanding of LGBT culture, which an LGBT physician naturally, to some degree, possesses.
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I actually didn't believe this until we had a conference specifically on the issue where several members of the community talked about the difficulties they had in obtaining health care. Most people assume that LGBTQ people have the same needs as a straight person but just different sexual preferences or whatever, but there are a LOT of unique challenges that the community faces, from finding accepting medical personnel to getting providers that know how to deal with some of the unique disease patterns and prevention methods required for different types of LGBTQ patients.
 
J Senpai said:
Being an atheist can negatively affect you almost anywhere, I'm afraid. Hemant Mehta is an atheist blogger who - as far as I know - was attending med school for a short period of time and he actively discourages people from mentioning their atheism or affiliation to irreligious organizations in the application process because so many people, even those who aren't necessarily fundamentalists, have negative impressions when they see "atheist" or "secular humanist", etc.
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You're so right about this. So many people hear "atheist" and think "amoral" -- Tragic really. We're the last closeted minority, and I don't see many signs of this changing. It's not some religious belief or fear of divine retribution that guides me to 'right' over 'wrong'. It's a simple desire to improve the lives of others that drives many of my decisions -- same as it is for most of my religious counterparts.

Interesting - I see you lump "secular humanist" in with the "atheists". Do you think people react the same way to both labels? Seems to me that those who are knowledgeable enough to know what a secular humanist is would also be knowledgeable enough to know what it isn't. Then again, the same could be said of "feminist"...
 
MrMe123 said:
Being in an underprivileged minority does provide advantages for someone entering into a medical profession. A minority individual can have stronger cultural competency for their minority group, which may therefore affect the quality of their treatment to that group. I've had plenty of experiences in doctor's offices / hospitals where I've raised an eyebrow at something a nurse / physician has said or done in the context of my sexuality. I'm not saying that a cis doctor can't learn how to be a good physician for LGBT patients, but it takes training to have a strong understanding of LGBT culture, which an LGBT physician naturally, to some degree, possesses.
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Yeah not every LGBTQ person is underprivileged, not every cis person needs diversity training, some people just treat people and do not worry about who they love, I am sorry if you are in a non friendly LGBTQ area, but then again, while comments can hurt, you can always go see a different provider.
 
Mad Jack said:
I actually didn't believe this until we had a conference specifically on the issue where several members of the community talked about the difficulties they had in obtaining health care. Most people assume that LGBTQ people have the same needs as a straight person but just different sexual preferences or whatever, but there are a LOT of unique challenges that the community faces, from finding accepting medical personnel to getting providers that know how to deal with some of the unique disease patterns and prevention methods required for different types of LGBTQ patients.
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Again if you are LGBTQ in Alabama this could be true, but if live in Boston for example is not true at all so an applicant from Alabama who is LGBTQ might be considered underprivileged on the basis of sexual orientation, but one from Boston will not ETC.
 
J Senpai said:
Being an atheist can negatively affect you almost anywhere, I'm afraid. Hemant Mehta is an atheist blogger who - as far as I know - was attending med school for a short period of time and he actively discourages people from mentioning their atheism or affiliation to irreligious organizations in the application process because so many people, even those who aren't necessarily fundamentalists, have negative impressions when they see "atheist" or "secular humanist", etc.
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Oh I definitely won't mention the fact I am an atheist.. That to me is an issue like abortion, gun control, etc.. People are on one side of the fence or another.
That is also good advice for school projects. It is sometimes best to stay away from those touchy topics because you never know where your professor might truly stand on the issue(s)..
 
malick1 said:
Yeah not every LGBTQ person is underprivileged, not every cis person needs diversity training, some people just treat people and do not worry about who they love, I am sorry if you are in a non friendly LGBTQ area, but then again, while comments can hurt, you can always go see a different provider.
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This is hogwash.

A physician's job is to treat their patient's where they are at. As much as it sounds nice to "treat everyone the same" that's not how the world works, and that actually devalues your patients experience and may cause you to have a blind eye to their overall health. When you say "treat everyone the same" that's the fallacy of the 70 kg white male all over again. You have to take into account a patient's life, you have to know what they are at risk for just be virtue of being a member of a particular minority group. If you have an HIV positive MSM you should be looking for syphilis. You should be asking about magnetic couples, you should be making sure that transmen are getting proper gynecological care. This isn't just about homophobic comments this is about putting patient's lives in danger because of ignorance, callousness, and hiding behind falsehoods like "not worrying about who they love" This doesn't just happen in homophobic areas either, it happens all across the country. And your attitude isn't helping.
 
malick1 said:
Again if you are LGBTQ in Alabama this could be true, but if live in Boston for example is not true at all so an applicant from Alabama who is LGBTQ might be considered underprivileged on the basis of sexual orientation, but one from Boston will not ETC.
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Depends on their personal experience. While there may be less discrimination based upon their sexuality or perceived gender, some people in major cities may still find that they experience a great deal of homophobia etc. Being a gay kid going to high school in Boston may be easier than being one in Alabama, but it's probably going to make their life more difficult than if they were straight. It's kind of like the situation that exists with some of the well-off URM students out there. Sure, they may not have the economic difficulties typically associated with URM status, but they still have to deal with the stereotypes, the hiring practices, the police bias, and the media portrayals of members of their group every day of their life. So while they might be better off than a first generation Mexican immigrant that's scraping by in the inner city, they still have substantially more barriers to deal with than a lot of the white and Asian kids they went to school with.
 
touchpause13 said:
This is hogwash.

A physician's job is to treat their patient's where they are at. As much as it sounds nice to "treat everyone the same" that's not how the world works, and that actually devalues your patients experience and may cause you to have a blind eye to their overall health. When you say "treat everyone the same" that's the fallacy of the 70 kg white male all over again. You have to take into account a patient's life, you have to know what they are at risk for just be virtue of being a member of a particular minority group. If you have an HIV positive MSM you should be looking for syphilis. You should be asking about magnetic couples, you should be making sure that transmen are getting proper gynecological care. This isn't just about homophobic comments this is about putting patient's lives in danger because of ignorance, callousness, and hiding behind falsehoods like "not worrying about who they love" This doesn't just happen in homophobic areas either, it happens all across the country. And your attitude isn't helping.
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Yeah I encourage you to read my post again 🙂, at no point I said treat everyone the same 🙂
 
I'm from one of the most gay friendly cities in the country, that didn't make my time at a Catholic high school any easier, that didn't change how my family felt about it at the time. I still had friends who ended up on the streets after being kicked out.
 
malick1 said:
Yeah not every LGBTQ person is underprivileged, not every cis person needs diversity training, some people just treat people and do not worry about who they love, I am sorry if you are in a non friendly LGBTQ area, but then again, while comments can hurt, you can always go see a different provider.
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Here's the trouble- those "other providers" often don't exist. There was a person from the trans community that was refused by doctor after doctor because they were afraid she'd drive other patients away or that they'd come to be viewed as some kind of trans specialist if they started treating her. There's an epidemic of cervical cancer in the lesbian community because many physicians improperly inform them that they do not need regular gynecological screening since they aren't sexually active with men. Anal cancer is killing gay men left and right because no one wants to perform the screening tests for it and gay men are too nervous to ask their providers to screen them. There are a lot of issues out there, far more than most non-LGBTQ providers realize.
 
Mad Jack said:
Depends on their personal experience. While there may be less discrimination based upon their sexuality or perceived gender, some people in major cities may still find that they experience a great deal of homophobia etc. Being a gay kid going to high school in Boston may be easier than being one in Alabama, but it's probably going to make their life more difficult than if they were straight. It's kind of like the situation that exists with some of the well-off URM students out there. Sure, they may not have the economic difficulties typically associated with URM status, but they still have to deal with the stereotypes, the hiring practices, the police bias, and the media portrayals of members of their group every day of their life. So while they might be better off than a first generation Mexican immigrant that's scraping by in the inner city, they still have substantially more barriers to deal with than a lot of the white and Asian kids they went to school with.
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That's why I said in my initial post, that lead to this extended conversation it will have an effect if there is documented events that show that being LGBTQ has produce hardship, but not every person who is LGBTQ has gone to great struggles, some have been lucky enough to be in understanding environments!
 
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Mad Jack said:
Here's the trouble- those "other providers" often don't exist. There was a person from the trans community that was refused by doctor after doctor because they were afraid she'd drive other patients away or that they'd come to be viewed as some kind of trans specialist if they started treating her. There's an epidemic of cervical cancer in the lesbian community because many physicians improperly inform them that they do not need regular gynecological screening since they aren't sexually active with men. Anal cancer is killing gay men left and right because no one wants to perform the screening tests for it and gay men are too nervous to ask their providers to screen them. There are a lot of issues out there, far more than most non-LGBTQ providers realize.
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Bingo

This is exactly what I was getting at
 
malick1 said:
That's why I said in my initial post, that lead to this extended conversation it will have an effect if there is documented events that show that being LGBTQ has produce hardship, but not every person who is LGBTQ has gone to great struggles, some have been lucky enough to be in understanding environments!
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I've yet to meet an LGBTQ person who did not face a hardship solely because of their orientation/gender.
 
DokterMom said:
You're so right about this. So many people hear "atheist" and think "amoral" -- Tragic really. We're the last closeted minority, and I don't see many signs of this changing. It's not some religious belief or fear of divine retribution that guides me to 'right' over 'wrong'. It's a simple desire to improve the lives of others that drives many of my decisions -- same as it is for most of my religious counterparts.

Interesting - I see you lump "secular humanist" in with the "atheists". Do you think people react the same way to both labels? Seems to me that those who are knowledgeable enough to know what a secular humanist is would also be knowledgeable enough to know what it isn't. Then again, the same could be said of "feminist"...
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Thank you! I like to see people who get it. "Secular humanist" may be in the vocabulary of those who vilify atheism, though atheists as a group definitely receive the most negative responses. I would have thought the same thing except, after watching God's Not Dead and seeing how they specifically pointed out how one atheist character was associated with secular humanism, I can see that there are those who know all the names and associations yet know abaolutely nothing about the secular movement.
 
malick1 said:
You are foruming (<-- not a word ) with one. I am a Lesbian, and I have not surfer hardship 🙂
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here's a cookie
Pepperidge-Farm-Nantucket-Cookie.jpg
 
touchpause13 said:
Bingo

This is exactly what I was getting at
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That was one Doctor, I know many Doctors who work with trans, and a close trans friend works with cutting edge research being done in transgender health and life skills 🙂. Also while this is the T on LGBT transgenders are a group of its on with far more challenges that some one who is homosexual.
 
malick1 said:
Yeah not every LGBTQ person is underprivileged, not every cis person needs diversity training, some people just treat people and do not worry about who they love, I am sorry if you are in a non friendly LGBTQ area, but then again, while comments can hurt, you can always go see a different provider.
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I think other people have already pointed out the shortcomings with this thinking, but I also wanted to point out that saying someone "can always go see a different provider" is a pretty shortsighted comment. There are a lot of places where the other providers don't have openings or the wait to get in is six months out for primary care. In addition to that, insurance company restrictions can severely limit access as well.

My best friend is a lesbian working for a major well know company. They kept her hours just shy of being where they'd have to provide her with full benefits. She gets a lower tier health insurance and works other jobs to make up the difference. A few years ago, she needed to see a psychologist or psychiatrist. The insurance company give her a short list of network providers, none were psychologists or psychiatrists. Most were masters level counsellors working at religious organizations.

The only place she could get in was one of those. The counselor didn't agree with her sexuality and wouldn't discuss anything related to it in therapy even though that and her relationship was one of the big things she'd been struggling with because her family kicked her out and she had to drop out of school as a result. She dropped out of therapy and still struggles because the lack of providers she's covered for.

So lots of people can't just "see a different provider"

Mad jack did a great job addressing why providers need to understand and treat members of the lgbt community differently. There are plenty of different populations in medicine that can't be dealt with the same as everyone else.
 
wholeheartedly said:
I think other people have already pointed out the shortcomings with this thinking, but I also wanted to point out that saying someone "can always go see a different provider" is a pretty shortsighted comment. There are a lot of places where the other providers don't have openings or the wait to get in is six months out for primary care. In addition to that, insurance company restrictions can severely limit access as well.

My best friend is a lesbian working for a major well know company. They kept her hours just shy of being where they'd have to provide her with full benefits. She gets a lower tier health insurance and works other jobs to make up the difference. A few years ago, she needed to see a psychologist or psychiatrist. The insurance company give her a short list of network providers, none were psychologists or psychiatrists. Most were masters level counsellors working at religious organizations.

The only place she could get in was one of those. The counselor didn't agree with her sexuality and wouldn't discuss anything related to it in therapy even though that and her relationship was one of the big things she'd been struggling with because her family kicked her out and she had to drop out of school as a result. She dropped out of therapy and still struggles because the lack of providers she's covered for.

So lots of people can't just "see a different provider"

Mad jack did a great job addressing why providers need to understand and treat members of the lgbt community differently. There are plent of different populations in medicine that can't be dealt with the same as everyone else.
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I dread to think that this is probably not all that uncommon, especially in certain parts of the U.S. I hope your friend gets the help she deserves.
 
malick1 said:
That was one Doctor, I know many Doctors who work with trans, and a close trans friend works with cutting edge research being done in transgender health and life skills 🙂. Also while this is the T on LGBT transgenders are a group of its on with far more challenges that some one who is homosexual.
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The issue with what you are saying is that you feel certain doctors don't require competency training and LGBT individuals should not be actively recruited based on their identities / orientations because you know some hetero/cis physicians that magically understand all LGBT issues with no competency training. Why would someone that naturally experiences no LGBT health-related issues have any developed understanding of those issues?

It isn't a matter of whether an LGBT patient lives in a progressive area or not that they will receive adequate enough treatment. Tolerance is only one part of the picture. Proper education is another. A doctor at Johns Hopkins can mean well, but when he phrases a question to his (presumably) female patient as "Do you have a husband?" that is a sign of cultural incompetence and can have a larger effect on an LGBT patient than one realizes (and studies show that this sort of heteronormative behavior DOES have a negative effect on disclosure of orientation/identity by LGBT patients, which is obviously a BAD thing for reasons already stated above)
 
J Senpai said:
I dread to think that this is probably not all that uncommon, especially in certain parts of the U.S. I hope your friend gets the help she deserves.
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It was very much third hand but I heard that a friend of a friend who had had an abortion when she was younger was struggling with depression and guilt issues from it and went to use our employers employee counseling services. The counselor wouldn't talk to her about it, even though that was what she needed to talk about. This is at a major well respected medical center. I think if you feel your personal beliefs don't allow you to treat someone, you should at least have the decency to refer them.
 
MrMe123 said:
The issue with what you are saying is that you feel certain doctors don't require competency training and LGBT individuals should not be actively recruited based on their identities / orientations because you know some hetero/cis physicians that magically understand all LGBT issues with no competency training. Why would someone that naturally experiences no LGBT health-related issues have any developed understanding of those issues?

It isn't a matter of whether an LGBT patient lives in a progressive area or not that they will receive adequate enough treatment. Tolerance is only one part of the picture. Proper education is another. A doctor at Johns Hopkins can mean well, but when he phrases a question to his (presumably) female patient as "Do you have a husband?" that is a sign of cultural incompetence and can have a larger effect on an LGBT patient than one realizes (and studies show that this sort of heteronormative behavior DOES have a negative effect on disclosure of orientation/identity by LGBT patients, which is obviously a BAD thing for reasons already stated above)
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Some doctors don't require diversity training, because they have already experience diversity in their life. Any Doctor that stays of today with current topics in medicine will have read at some point that both MSM and Females are a risk of oral cancer and colorectal cancer due to exposure to HPV, with out needing to go to an Intense LBGTQ health retreat. in other words ( since people are reading my words as they feel ) some Doctors are LGBTQ friendly by Nature and some are not, and while I love to sing cumbya ( not sure how to spell that one ) is not a perfect world and will never be, so people will not always get what they need ! so those who can should keep looking until they find a provider that fit their needs.
 
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I think you are overestimating how much doctors keep up with new information once out of training and underestimating the sheer volume of new information that there is to keep up with.

I keep up with the major medical literature for my job and grad program and rarely ever come across anything related to lgbt care.

Exposure to diversity doesn't give someone the full scope of what they need to know.

Schools recruit for diversity because they know, people with far more experience in healthcare and medical training, that it's necessary. The literature shows lots of issues with providers stereotyping patients from certain groups and not providing adequate care. I think you're going to be very surprised by what you see as you leave your current location and go through training.
 
malick1 said:
Some doctors don't require diversity training, because they have already experience diversity in their life. Any Doctor that stays of today with current topics in medicine will have read at some point that both MSM and Females are a risk of oral cancer and colorectal cancer due to exposure to HPV, with out needing to go to an Intense LBGTQ health retreat. in other words ( since people are reading my words as they feel ) some Doctors are LGBTQ friendly by Nature and some are not, and while I love to sing cumbya ( not sure how to spell that one ) is not a perfect world and will never be, so people will not always get what they need ! so those who can should keep looking until they find a provider that fit their needs.
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That's more hogwash. Just being a member of the LGBTQ community doesn't mean that you automatically know every risk factor for every other group. I've had to work to learn about the healthcare needs of the T community as they have unique challenges. And no, most doctor's don't know that. Those aren't taught at most medical schools, and most people just don't care to be frank. A lot of doctors just make the assumption that lesbian women have never had any exposure to HPV so why do pelvics? Which is stupid because most lesbians aren't "gold star"
 
touchpause13 said:
That's more hogwash. Just being a member of the LGBTQ community doesn't mean that you automatically know every risk factor for every other group. I've had to work to learn about the healthcare needs of the T community as they have unique challenges. And no, most doctor's don't know that. Those aren't taught at most medical schools, and most people just don't care to be frank. A lot of doctors just make the assumption that lesbian women have never had any exposure to HPV so why do pelvics? Which is stupid because most lesbians aren't "gold star"
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please point me at which point I said that being a Member of the LGBTQ community X? so in case you miss read having experience diversity does not make a person LGBTQ by default 🙂
 
Mad Jack said:
It's a bit speciesist, sure. But it's fairly good about treating all members of a given species equally.

Sharks and the ocean are BFFs, they hang out literally all the time and talk about killing things.
Humans, on the other hand, just give the ocean a murder boner.
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Both Human and sharks come from Animalia, and some Oceans are better than others 🙂
 
DokterMom said:
You're so right about this. So many people hear "atheist" and think "amoral" -- Tragic really. We're the last closeted minority, and I don't see many signs of this changing. It's not some religious belief or fear of divine retribution that guides me to 'right' over 'wrong'. It's a simple desire to improve the lives of others that drives many of my decisions -- same as it is for most of my religious counterparts.

Interesting - I see you lump "secular humanist" in with the "atheists". Do you think people react the same way to both labels? Seems to me that those who are knowledgeable enough to know what a secular humanist is would also be knowledgeable enough to know what it isn't. Then again, the same could be said of "feminist"...
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When the average adcom is a white, Christian male in his 50s-60s, some minorities don't fare as well, unfortunately.
 
I doubt that faking an LGBT status is going to be a thing. The simple fact of that alone isn't some kind of magical admissions currency - the school only cares if it's had an effect of your wish to pursue medicine that you are able to articulate well, or if it led you to pursue some significant community service in that regard.

As far as wishing for all the special treatment you'd get if you were only URM - you're free to go back in time and magically convert if you can survive what comes with it.
 
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DokterMom said:
You're so right about this. So many people hear "atheist" and think "amoral" -- Tragic really. We're the last closeted minority, and I don't see many signs of this changing. It's not some religious belief or fear of divine retribution that guides me to 'right' over 'wrong'. It's a simple desire to improve the lives of others that drives many of my decisions -- same as it is for most of my religious counterparts.

Interesting - I see you lump "secular humanist" in with the "atheists". Do you think people react the same way to both labels? Seems to me that those who are knowledgeable enough to know what a secular humanist is would also be knowledgeable enough to know what it isn't. Then again, the same could be said of "feminist"...
Click to expand...

This is precisely why I try to be as out-of-the-closet as possible re: my atheism! I don't walk around telling everyone I see that I'm atheist, but I do mention it on a fairly regular basis to people. It's safe to say that my entire med school class has figured it out by now... (I even wrote the "atheism/agnosticism" section of our student-written booklet for applicants during MS1). I have found that everyone I've told has been largely perfectly okay with it, regardless of their beliefs (or if they weren't, they didn't say anything to my face) - many have even "come out" to me in response! My (med school) husband is quite religious and many of my classmate-friends are pretty strict Catholics and we're all very happy together.
 
lisi326 said:
This is precisely why I try to be as out-of-the-closet as possible re: my atheism! I don't walk around telling everyone I see that I'm atheist, but I do mention it on a fairly regular basis to people. It's safe to say that my entire med school class has figured it out by now... (I even wrote the "atheism/agnosticism" section of our student-written booklet for applicants during MS1). I have found that everyone I've told has been largely perfectly okay with it, regardless of their beliefs (or if they weren't, they didn't say anything to my face) - many have even "come out" to me in response! My (med school) husband is quite religious and many of my classmate-friends are pretty strict Catholics and we're all very happy together.
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Haha, what is a med schol husband?
 
lisi326 said:
This is precisely why I try to be as out-of-the-closet as possible re: my atheism! I don't walk around telling everyone I see that I'm atheist, but I do mention it on a fairly regular basis to people. It's safe to say that my entire med school class has figured it out by now... (I even wrote the "atheism/agnosticism" section of our student-written booklet for applicants during MS1). I have found that everyone I've told has been largely perfectly okay with it, regardless of their beliefs (or if they weren't, they didn't say anything to my face) - many have even "come out" to me in response! My (med school) husband is quite religious and many of my classmate-friends are pretty strict Catholics and we're all very happy together.
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Yeah, I'm definitely not a closeted atheist, but we as a group generally don't believe in martyrs, so if it serves me well to keep such beliefs to myself until I get accepted, that's probably what I'm going to do. Obviously, I'd never go as far to say I was religious, but I'd avoid wearing it on my sleeve during the app process, I suppose unless I were expressly asked about my beliefs in an interview, which I really don't think will happen.
 
malick1 said:
I don't think being LGBT will give you bonus points unless you have some major and well documented hardship as a result; for instance if your family write you off when you come out, and you were homeless for a period etc. but being lgbtq alone does not make one more special, as is not any different than been hetero, since is Medical School, not an Adult film acting job 🙂
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This is offensive, in case you didn't realize.
 
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