Should I just give up? what now?

[turtle36]

I just feel absolutely defeated. This is my 4th time applying and I'm just burnt out. After applying to 13 schools, I've had nothing but straight up rejections from every school. Despite taking the advice of previous file reviews verbatim (retaking pre-requisites, getting a whole masters degree, getting more unique experience, and learning a new language), I have not even received an interview. At this point, now that I have a masters in microbiology more career choices have opened up for me which pay rather well, and my current job as a veterinary technician is just not paying the bills. My current living situation is toxic, I graduated undergrad in 2020 and moved home with parents while I applied to veterinary school, here we are 5 years later with no success.

On top of this, I am not delusional and am acutely aware of the direction this field is heading. We may not like to talk about this, but there is still a mass exodus of veterinary support staff permanently abandoning the field. The VPA positions will surely further to complicate matters as well. Many new veterinarians might potentially be forced to perform the tasks needed to see patients as there may not be a technician available to do that work. This is also before we acknowledge the vast amount of changes coming to veterinary academia with these 10 new schools opening in the next few years meaning that class sizes are going to be continuously stretched thin with few instructors to teach them. The costs of attending veterinary school is also outrageously expensive, this is a lot of debt to accrue for a field facing such concerning issues. Many people will point out that I could always apply down the road, but if these are the tough realities we have to face as a field I can't justify being buried in potentially a few hundred thousand dollars in debt

If you all were in my position, what would you do? Being a veterinarian is a dream, I know I would be an incredible vet, but this application process is decimating my mental health and working as a technician is not sustainable financially. I know I am not alone in feeling this way, I've seen similar sentiments on here and facebook. I also work with other people who applied and they feel equally crushed. Any kind words or advice for directions to take from here would be great, because feeling this inadequate and unwanted hurts a lot.

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[DVM882029]

I'm not the most familiar with this topic, but there are ways to work in veterinary medicine without being a DVM! Could you pursue a Ph. D in microbiology or see about doing research at a teaching hospital? I think it's absolutely fine if you have to prioritize your day to day life and put your DVM dreams on the back burner. I did, for 10 years. Now the time has come around for me to apply and I'm so much more prepared (granted, I did stay in the field, I didn't leave it but I can't imagine that would be a big issue). Working in the sciences with your degree may give you a break, a chance to earn some money, move out, focus on your life as it is and not just application cycles. My $0.02 is to work on yourself and get yourself into a good place, and see what comes around down the road. It also gives you time to see how these new programs shake out and how the political landscape changes with respect to student loan debt.

 

[vampyrica]

I sympathize with you and understand your frustration. I fully support utilizing your Masters degree to get a better paying job. Since you've accrued so many hours working as a tech, I don't see a reason for you to stay if you have enough hours and have made meaningful connections in the field to request LOR should you choose to re-apply next year. If you have it in you, I would say try one more time. As exhausting is it, you deserve to live out your dream. Maybe taking a year off just to work in a different field away from vet med will help you mentally, financially and allow you to move elsewhere possibly and obtain residency in a different state who's school you love and have the best shot at getting into.

I understand how difficult it can be to think positively when the world feels like it's crumbling down on you. Take a break, go enjoy life, get a job that pays you well, and think about trying again. Wishing you all the best and hoping you end up exactly where you manifest yourself (maybe not this cycle, but how about Jan 2026?)

 

[pp9]

Overall, it seems you have a very negative impression of the field. Not that I think you are wrong, but it just doesn't seem like you want to be in the field anymore regardless of the role. Even without opinions you've stated here, most/all practicing vets would tell you 'If you can be happy with any other career, don't become a vet.' It's ideal to be realistic about what you'd be getting yourself into, but on multiple occasions you've given more reasons why you want to get out of this field than why you want to stay in/be a vet.

Can you objectively say you are applying because you truly want to be a vet still, as opposed to applying because you want to be accepted/achieve the goal? A lot of people, myself included, get caught up with 'This is what I've been wanting to do, I've been telling people I'm doing this, I haven't thought of anything else, follow your passion and never give up, etc.' type of mindset. So many of us have 'get into vet school' on the brain for years. When we get caught up in that, what we really want for ourselves as we grow (and what might even be best for us) tends to get put on the backburner for the sake of feeling like we accomplished what we wanted to do, even if that accomplishment no longer serves us.

Unfortunately no one can tell you why you were rejected. We speculate and give ideas, but we don't truly know. Some of us know people who applied multiple times and never got in - I myself know someone who applied 6 times, a few more who applied 3-4 times who never got in. It's certainly not unheard of. I think it's wise to draw a line in the sand (and stick to it). If you do decide to try again, all of the advice you've gotten still stands - choose schools wisely, overhaul your PS, and make sure you aren't getting meh letters from anyone.

 

[turtle36]

I sympathize with you and understand your frustration. I fully support utilizing your Masters degree to get a better paying job. Since you've accrued so many hours working as a tech, I don't see a reason for you to stay if you have enough hours and have made meaningful connections in the field to request LOR should you choose to re-apply next year. If you have it in you, I would say try one more time. As exhausting is it, you deserve to live out your dream. Maybe taking a year off just to work in a different field away from vet med will help you mentally, financially and allow you to move elsewhere possibly and obtain residency in a different state who's school you love and have the best shot at getting into.

I understand how difficult it can be to think positively when the world feels like it's crumbling down on you. Take a break, go enjoy life, get a job that pays you well, and think about trying again. Wishing you all the best and hoping you end up exactly where you manifest yourself (maybe not this cycle, but how about Jan 2026?)

I think all of those problems I highlighted about the field in general will still be major issues next year. If I ever applied again it would be 10 years from now, when I can see what the realities of this field will be. I hate how tumultuous the field seems at the moment and I’m not sure it’s worth risking the debt.

 

[vampyrica]

I think all of those problems I highlighted about the field in general will still be major issues next year. If I ever applied again it would be 10 years from now, when I can see what the realities of this field will be. I hate how tumultuous the field seems at the moment and I’m not sure it’s worth risking the debt.

It is okay to step away from the field if you feel as if this isn't the field for you anymore. You have a stacked resume, multiple degrees and so much life to live. You do what you believe is best for you, and if in 10-15 years you still feel passionately about this, come back and try again 🙂

 

[turtle36]

Overall, it seems you have a very negative impression of the field. Not that I think you are wrong, but it just doesn't seem like you want to be in the field anymore regardless of the role. Even without opinions you've stated here, most/all practicing vets would tell you 'If you can be happy with any other career, don't become a vet.' It's ideal to be realistic about what you'd be getting yourself into, but on multiple occasions you've given more reasons why you want to get out of this field than why you want to stay in/be a vet.

I'm absolutely jaded from my experience. As much as I love what I do, I continue to discover things I heavily dislike about this field. Quite frankly if I made a pros vs cons list they would be just as long as one another.

Can you objectively say you are applying because you truly want to be a vet still, as opposed to applying because you want to be accepted/achieve the goal? A lot of people, myself included, get caught up with 'This is what I've been wanting to do, I've been telling people I'm doing this, I haven't thought of anything else, follow your passion and never give up, etc.' type of mindset. So many of us have 'get into vet school' on the brain for years. When we get caught up in that, what we really want for ourselves as we grow (and what might even be best for us) tends to get put on the backburner for the sake of feeling like we accomplished what we wanted to do, even if that accomplishment no longer serves us.

I can say that, weirdly enough. Honestly one of my biggest fears about leaving the field is the constant regret I will face for that decision. I'm trying to gauge pursuing dreams vs protecting mental health and I feel conflicted about what to do.

Unfortunately no one can tell you why you were rejected. We speculate and give ideas, but we don't truly know. Some of us know people who applied multiple times and never got in - I myself know someone who applied 6 times, a few more who applied 3-4 times who never got in. It's certainly not unheard of. I think it's wise to draw a line in the sand (and stick to it). If you do decide to try again, all of the advice you've gotten still stands - choose schools wisely, overhaul your PS, and make sure you aren't getting meh letters from anyone.

How can I find out about my LOR if we can't view them? I keep seeing this brought up as a point to improve applications but how does one even know which letters were good and which letters were bad? A lot of the schools that have been recommended to apply to would also make me miserable to live in or would be unbelievably expensive, so it becomes hard to want to invest in their education. Given my concerns about the field, I would have hesitations about spending that level of money to live somewhere I hate while the field continues to operate in a state of chaos. I'm extremely nervous about what schooling will look like when these new vet schools open and I'm extremely nervous about becoming a dvm if there is no support staff to work with. It doesn't feel like I'm allowed to have autonomy in my decision making process and that also feels repressive.

 

[DVM882029]

I can say that, weirdly enough. Honestly one of my biggest fears about leaving the field is the constant regret I will face for that decision. I'm trying to gauge pursuing dreams vs protecting mental health and I feel conflicted about what to do.

If that's what you feel, regret about leaving the field, then that's information you can use to make a decision down the road. I'm 36 and just applied for my first cycle. A friend of mine works at UGA and they had a 60-something in a recent class (clinics last year maybe?). I know multiple people who went back in their late 30s or early 40s. There's time. If the field is right for you, then a break will bring you clarity. If it's not, you won't regret it. And the nice thing is, if you get a good job and lots of experience with your Masters, it'll help you stand out down the road. Time away from applying is not a bad thing and time away from a field you aren't sure you love anymore isn't a bad thing.

 

[indysadventures]

If that's what you feel, regret about leaving the field, then that's information you can use to make a decision down the road. I'm 36 and just applied for my first cycle. A friend of mine works at UGA and they had a 60-something in a recent class (clinics last year maybe?). I know multiple people who went back in their late 30s or early 40s. There's time. If the field is right for you, then a break will bring you clarity. If it's not, you won't regret it. And the nice thing is, if you get a good job and lots of experience with your Masters, it'll help you stand out down the road. Time away from applying is not a bad thing and time away from a field you aren't sure you love anymore isn't a bad thing.

Seconding this general statement. I’m 33; when I was 25, I was rejected from every history PhD program I applied to. I had applied a couple years out of undergrad because I “wanted to make something of myself” and felt that a PhD in my field was the only way I could do what I loved. The inadequacy I felt from being rejected stung, as did telling those who helped me with my applications. I was embarrassed but ultimately decided not to reapply because I realized I was trying to force myself into something that just didn’t feel 100% right. I realized this by sitting down and envisioning the life I wanted, and it helped me realize that I was really only chasing the PhD dream because I didn’t know what else to do.

Nearly 10 years later, I am so indescribably happy that I did not gain admission to those programs. Because the truth is, I’ve done a lot of growing and learning over those years, and I found veterinary medicine in that process. And I know now, in hindsight, what I couldn’t see while in the thick of it.

Take a step back. Breathe. Get a new job, travel, find a hobby that you love that isn’t tailored to look good on an application.

And if you decide to come back, you’ll truly know this field is for you.

 

[Cowsrcool]

This is so difficult. I’m in the same place as you, turtle, as we have chatted on the side about our grievances with being told a masters is a great option to boost our apps. I truly empathize with the pain of just rejection after rejection. It HURTS. And I’ve been questioning if I’m meant for the field as well. For me, what keeps me motivated to continue pursuing my dream is that I 100% cannot see myself happy in any other career or position. If you think you can see yourself being happy working using your masters, then I say do it! But that absolutely doesn’t diminish your worth as a person or a prospective veterinarian. As much as we can speculate why people get accepted and why some get denied, I truly believe there is a randomness to it that we will never understand because we aren’t the admissions committee. You have a strong application and would be an incredible vet, but if the timing just isn’t right for you, I would step away and reevaluate once you’re financially back on your feet.

 

[pp9]

How can I find out about my LOR if we can't view them? I keep seeing this brought up as a point to improve applications but how does one even know which letters were good and which letters were bad? A lot of the schools that have been recommended to apply to would also make me miserable to live in or would be unbelievably expensive, so it becomes hard to want to invest in their education. Given my concerns about the field, I would have hesitations about spending that level of money to live somewhere I hate while the field continues to operate in a state of chaos. I'm extremely nervous about what schooling will look like when these new vet schools open and I'm extremely nervous about becoming a dvm if there is no support staff to work with. It doesn't feel like I'm allowed to have autonomy in my decision making process and that also feels repressive.

I'm going to generalize here, but if you felt at all weird/awkward/nervous to approach someone to ask for a letter, there's a good chance that person and you don't know each other all that well...resulting in a meh letter. That letter often tends to be from a professor - I think it's pretty rare for a student to be able to have a good rapport with a professor that is teaching a few (or less) of their classes. I'm under the belief (based on my anecdotal experiences, again no hard data here) that a truly outstanding letter from a professor is uncommon. You need people to be able to speak towards who you are as a person, not just 'Turtle36 did well in my class, so I recommend them for vet school.' IIRC, you couldn't be 100% certain that your academic letter was good or not.

Also, if you know that someone wrote your letter the night before it was due (submitting it hours before the deadline is a clue), there's also a decent chance it wasn't a well written letter. The latter is entirely out of your hands, unfortunately, but may change who you'd approach for a letter in the future. If you did happen to do a file review and were told 'Your essays were fine, your letters were fine, no red flags, try again' then I'd tell you your essays and letters weren't good enough to make you stand out (me, my first round). If I were you, I'd actually consider not waiving my right to read the letters that were submitted if I applied again. I know there are opinions on that, but just an idea. There isn't room for average application components - knowing you had a meh letter, or proving to yourself that you didn't, might change things for you. That would only help you for a following cycle, though.

Four years of living in a cold/far/whatever state would not have stopped me from going to vet school. Living in a college town is fairly isolating from the rest of the world - I know you've mentioned some political concerns, but college/university towns are about as liberal as you can get regardless of the state.

As for the future of the field, you won't get an answer because none of us know. Truly, any applicant should have hesitations about the debt regardless of the current or future state of the field. I don't really have a solution for that.

I can say that, weirdly enough. Honestly one of my biggest fears about leaving the field is the constant regret I will face for that decision. I'm trying to gauge pursuing dreams vs protecting mental health and I feel conflicted about what to do.

Out of the techs, assistants, and two vets I know that have left the field entirely, I don't believe a single one regretted the decision To be fair, none were trying to get into vet school, but still. There is a world of more lucrative and less mentally draining careers out there.

 

[BigBang1234]

When you're at the bottom of something, the only way is going up. So if you are still interested in being a vet, keep it up for next year!!!

 

[littlebalto]

I’ve seen you in a few other threads and I know you’re incredibly frustrated with how things are (I would be too if I were in your shoes). Maybe you could look into a job that you like that uses that Microbio Masters and see if you like that (or at least see if you’re better off money-wise). You can always come back to being a vet or at least pursue other opportunities while simultaneously applying again.

In regards to the future of the profession, it honestly seems like every field is doing terrible right now even the “safe” ones so you kind of just have to decide what you’re willing to put up with (that’s late-stage capitalism for ya).

If it makes you feel any better, you’re incredibly accomplished with multiple degrees in difficult disciplines and you’re clearly determined and perseverant. I’m sure you’ll excel in whatever you pursue next. Rooting for you!

 

[turtle36]

I’ve seen you in a few other threads and I know you’re incredibly frustrated with how things are (I would be too if I were in your shoes). Maybe you could look into a job that you like that uses that Microbio Masters and see if you like that (or at least see if you’re better off money-wise). You can always come back to being a vet or at least pursue other opportunities while simultaneously applying again.

In regards to the future of the profession, it honestly seems like every field is doing terrible right now even the “safe” ones so you kind of just have to decide what you’re willing to put up with (that’s late-stage capitalism for ya).

If it makes you feel any better, you’re incredibly accomplished with multiple degrees in difficult disciplines and you’re clearly determined and perseverant. I’m sure you’ll excel in whatever you pursue next. Rooting for you!

I think it’s incredibly hard to know so many people in the field and have so much of my life be invested in veterinary medicine just to walk away like that. As for now I will try to look for job options but I feel like I’m operating in a state if shock so I don’t know when I can be serious about that.

 

[DVM882029]

I think it’s incredibly hard to know so many people in the field and have so much of my life be invested in veterinary medicine just to walk away like that. As for now I will try to look for job options but I feel like I’m operating in a state if shock so I don’t know when I can be serious about that.

Maybe it's time to invest in yourself and not just a profession. (said with compassion)

 

[battie]

If you all were in my position, what would you do?

I was going to leave and never come back. I told myself 3 application cycles because 1) it's expensive and 2) I wanted to be a mom earlier rather than later. I had a single acceptance at the very end of my third application cycle. I already had a new profession I enjoyed lines up and was looking into masters programs that would further that new professional goal.

I then failed first year and had to repeat. Then I was borderline for failing second year when my sister died. When I has an emergency meeting with the dean and he asked what my plan would be if I failed again, I told him I would not repeat second year, I would leave.

There are more important things than a job or career. You work to live, you do not live to work. And unless someone could guarantee they will graduate with less than 200k in loans, I don't know if I would recommend someone become a vet any more for all the reasons you've stated. I strongly feel that vet med will have a crash sometime this year, particularly urgent care and emergency medicine. I think it will be a wild ride and I feel bad for everyone graduating for the next 5 years or so until there's a drastic realignment.

I don't think *any* profession with the ROI we have is worth spending this time and money to get into is worthwhile. At least human medicine doctors get paid 3x what I do and have discussions of becoming millionaires in the EM forums 5-10 years out of graduation (without acknowledging the BS that is human medicine; they have it rough too).

Only you know if it's worth it to keep going for you. But on February 27, 2016, I was in your position. And I had already said I was done once my last decision came through.

 

[pp9]

I don't think *any* profession with the ROI we have is worth spending this time and money to get into is worthwhile. At least human medicine doctors get paid 3x what I do and have discussions of becoming millionaires in the EM forums 5-10 years out of graduation (without acknowledging the BS that is human medicine; they have it rough too).

I see those threads and want to throw up. Some of them are talking about switching to working only 1-2 shifts a week (or less) once they hit a million in the bank within 5-10 years, too. That means they went through their (relatively) poorly paid residencies +/- fellowships, all undergrad/med school loans have been paid off, they've established themselves presumably (bought a house, car, etc.) and still ended up with a million in savings in that time frame. Vet med is not a career I'd recommend to anyone wanting a comfy lifestyle, unless you come from a family that can/will comfortably pay your tuition and you graduate with no debt.

I strongly feel that vet med will have a crash sometime this year, particularly urgent care and emergency medicine.

I agree with you here - if not this year, soon. We are one of the few professional industries out there that are almost entirely dependent on people having disposable income. Pet care goes out the window very quickly when money gets tight, moreso for ER stuff. ER during early COVID was super rough with the number of people that had suddenly lost their jobs.

The media has been quiet about it, but there are a lot of people being laid off right now in this country (my area in particular, our main industry is very dependent on the rest of the country's economy/disposable income). My husband's very well known, very large international company just laid off multiple thousands of people across multiple states right before the holidays. Another nearby large company laid off thousands just a few months prior. I've seen this episode before...

 

[turtle36]

The media has been quiet about it, but there are a lot of people being laid off right now in this country (my area in particular, our main industry is very dependent on the rest of the country's economy/disposable income). My husband's very well known, very large international company just laid off multiple thousands of people across multiple states right before the holidays. Another nearby large company laid off thousands just a few months prior. I've seen this episode before...

Our hospital is cutting hours again and it doesnt seem to be helping. They already told our doctors that layoffs seek inevitable at this point. I know I will likely be cut if we are forced to downsize further. 😞

 

[pp9]

Our hospital is cutting hours again and it doesnt seem to be helping. They already told our doctors that layoffs seek inevitable at this point. I know I will likely be cut if we are forced to downsize further. 😞

I hate hearing that, but I'm not surprised. In early COVID, there was a brief moment of panic for us when the majority of our caseload was treat and street or euthanasia, for several months. We got lucky in our state because things opened up quickly, and the caseload nation-wide went into overdrive anyways. It was bound to slow down, and Mars in particular got really bloated with the hiring they were doing imo. Me being selfish, I know that the days of my ER/urgent care relief being a lucrative side hustle are numbered.

What's the current caseload like these days? Are layoffs for support staff as well as ER/specialty doctors?

 

[DVM882029]

What's the current caseload like these days? Are layoffs for support staff as well as ER/specialty doctors?

BP is laying off a fair amount of staff - financial coordinators, inventory staff, outreach/PDVM relations staff as of today (notice was given to them a couple of months ago). Not necessarily clinical staff as of yet.

 

[turtle36]

I hate hearing that, but I'm not surprised. In early COVID, there was a brief moment of panic for us when the majority of our caseload was treat and street or euthanasia, for several months. We got lucky in our state because things opened up quickly, and the caseload nation-wide went into overdrive anyways. It was bound to slow down, and Mars in particular got really bloated with the hiring they were doing imo. Me being selfish, I know that the days of my ER/urgent care relief being a lucrative side hustle are numbered.

What's the current caseload like these days? Are layoffs for support staff as well as ER/specialty doctors?

They restructured initially, so we no longer have an in-hospital financial department. Hours were cut for everyone across the board because our local leadership is trying to avoid layoffs for as long as possible. No one is allowed overtime.

Caseload on ER is slow most days. Staffing shortages are causing wait times more so than caseloads. Our department’s caseloads are all over the place, but some of our specialists who were previously booked months in advance consistently have same day opening, or even leave early due to lack of appointments. Layoffs will probably be for non-contracted technicians and assistants, cleaning crew, and front desk but not doctors for now. This is all I heard directly in the most recent doctor meeting (I walked into my doctor listening).

 

[battie]

ER during early COVID was super rough with the number of people that had suddenly lost their jobs.

I think all these little urgent cares that VCA has been opening up in my area are about to get a rude awakening.

 

[KK5820]

I think all these little urgent cares that VCA has been opening up in my area are about to get a rude awakening.

I work at one right now, we either have a steady flow or one case the whole day. There’s no in between. I’m an assistant so I could certainly see myself being laid off, but thankfully we have a GP attached that still is consistently busy🤞

 

[pp9]

I work at one right now, we either have a steady flow or one case the whole day. There’s no in between.

I'm banking on the latter for all of the shifts I've got scheduled at the new UrgentVets popping up near me

 

[JaynaAli]

I’m trying to save money so we can begin construction on a new build house hopefully this fall, and you bet I’m 100% accepting as much extra work right now as they’ll give me and that I can do without major burnout. On top of general economic concerns, clin path also gets to worry about AI replacing us in coming years too. I’m definitely trying to earn as much money as I can now, while it’s still available. I don’t really think I’d lose my job, but you never know. I’m definitely beefing up the savings just in case.

 

[battie]

thankfully we have a GP attached that still is consistently busy🤞

I think the GP/UCs will be okay. None of the VCA UCs in my area have the GP aspect. And they're cost just as much as we do and end up transferring a ton of things to us to begin with

 

[PixelPenguinz]

[QUOTE="JaynaAli”] accepting as much extra work right now as they’ll give me and that I can do without major burnout. On top of general economic concerns, clin path also gets to worry about AI replacing us in coming years too. I’m definitely trying to earn as much money as I can now, while it’s still available. I don’t really think I’d lose my job, but you never know. I’m definitely beefing up the savings just in case.[/QUOTE]

Sorry about this lol - one of the research techs helping to code this AI technology

 

[renacuaja]

I don't think it's wrong to move on. I'm in a leave of abscence from vet school and I still debate whether the degree is worth it. With the SAVE plan unlikely to survive this political climate as well it just adds to the reasons that becoming a vet is not the smartest choice out there.

 

[KK5820]

I work at one right now, we either have a steady flow or one case the whole day. There’s no in between. I’m an assistant so I could certainly see myself being laid off, but thankfully we have a GP attached that still is consistently busy🤞

Update to this! Just told yesterday that VCA is closing down all UC in Colorado, including ours. Thankfully I still have a job since we are connected to GP. The timing is crazy!

 

[battie]

Update to this! Just told yesterday that VCA is closing down all UC in Colorado, including ours. Thankfully I still have a job since we are connected to GP. The timing is crazy!

Sorry, friend. I'm ER in Denver. I didn't think this would happen this soon. Let me know if you're looking for work. I'm not sure if we're hiring right now. But when the Blue Pearl in Lakewood closed about a year ago, we took in like half the staff between our three hospitals.

 

[schmeebus25]

My current living situation is toxic.

If you all were in my position, what would you do?

I faced this ten years ago with med school. Being so invested in pursuing something only to be rejected is soul-destroying. I suggest you take some time to grieve, reflect, and take care of yourself. Based on how you’ve been writing, right now doesn’t seem to be a good time to be making big life decisions. You have a while until the next cycle opens. Toy with the idea of not becoming a vet, and see how it fits.

I know we’re getting kind of doom-and-gloom in here, but the profession will still in fact be here in ten years, if you’re afraid of the regret should you pursue another path.

 

[KK5820]

Sorry, friend. I'm ER in Denver. I didn't think this would happen this soon. Let me know if you're looking for work. I'm not sure if we're hiring right now. But when the Blue Pearl in Lakewood closed about a year ago, we took in like half the staff between our three hospitals.

I appreciate you!! I’m transferring over to my GP side so I should be okay. I’m also in FoCo so Denver is a tough commute. However, ill keep that in mind incase something else happen! I’m just going to miss seeing the more emergent cases.

 

[JaynaAli]

I appreciate you!! I’m transferring over to my GP side so I should be okay. I’m also in FoCo so Denver is a tough commute. However, ill keep that in mind incase something else happen! I’m just going to miss seeing the more emergent cases.

Small world moment, when I was an intern in Loveland we rotated through your GP clinic for a couple weeks throughout that year. That was 9 years ago and pre-urgent care component, but still.

 

[KK5820]

Small world moment, when I was an intern in Loveland we rotated through your GP clinic for a couple weeks throughout that year. That was 9 years ago and pre-urgent care component, but still.

That’s crazy!! It really is a small world. It’s unfortunate they’re shutting down urgent care but I could see it coming. I’ve been thinking about trying out ER in Loveland, but waiting to see where life takes me with vet school first

 

[battie]

I appreciate you!! I’m transferring over to my GP side so I should be okay. I’m also in FoCo so Denver is a tough commute. However, ill keep that in mind incase something else happen! I’m just going to miss seeing the more emergent cases.

There are a couple of decent ERs up that way besides CSU. If things go sideways, might be worthwhile looking around!

That’s crazy!! It really is a small world. It’s unfortunate they’re shutting down urgent care but I could see it coming. I’ve been thinking about trying out ER in Loveland, but waiting to see where life takes me with vet school first

Four Seasons is a great group of people so I hear and privately owned. Might also be an option.

 

[turtle36]

I know we’re getting kind of doom-and-gloom in here, but the profession will still in fact be here in ten years, if you’re afraid of the regret should you pursue another path.

With peace and love (because I appreciate the comment and the input) do you see some of the other comments most recently posted im this thread about several VCAs and BPs suddenly shutting down? My own hospital is teetering on the edge of sweeping layoffs. I’m about to be forced out of this field and it wont even be my decision. This current model is not sustainable, I can’t see veterinary medicine and academia functioning appropriately if changes are not implemented soon. I hate to be doom and gloom, but the situation is rather dire and I don’t see a light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[pp9]

With peace and love (because I appreciate the comment and the input) do you see some of the other comments most recently posted im this thread about several VCAs and BPs suddenly shutting down? My own hospital is teetering on the edge of sweeping layoffs. I’m about to be forced out of this field and it wont even be my decision. This current model is not sustainable, I can’t see veterinary medicine and academia functioning appropriately if changes are not implemented soon. I hate to be doom and gloom, but the situation is rather dire and I don’t see a light at the end of the tunnel.

This happened 15 years ago with the last crash. Newly graduated vets couldn't find jobs, people weren't spending money on their pets, hospitals were closing. Granted, corps weren't as big then, but still. The demand for vets grew astronomically during covid for multiple reasons, anyone who had any idea of anything would have told you that the demand was temporary. Corporations got excited with the increased revenue, expanded at a massive rate, and now we are now in a downswing, which was pretty predictable. We will upswing again, I just don't know when or to what degree. Probably depends on how low we go in the next 4 years.

Honestly I think it boils down to vet med wanting to grow in size, prestige, and quality alongside human medicine without having the money in our clientele to make it happen. Culturally, I don't think it's possible for us to get much closer to human med than we are. It's a huge conversation. For example, doctors and families are willing to put millions of dollars into a sick person's care (not all out of pocket, obvi...another conversation to have) for them to have a questionable prognosis/QOL should they survive. Meanwhile, in vet med, we've still got clients who have the money but are choosing euthanasia for simple diabetes cases, fractures, stable foreign bodies, won't pay for heartworm and flea prevention or vaccines, etc. The dichotomy is massive.

I know we’re getting kind of doom-and-gloom in here, but the profession will still in fact be here in ten years, if you’re afraid of the regret should you pursue another path.

Yes, the profession will still be here, but with an exponential increase in the number of vets floating around. Pet ownership and spending may not increase alongside the number of vets. That's the problem. Only time will tell, but there is a chance we will have thousands of new grads in hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt with absolutely no job prospects.

 

[battie]

I'm glad I graduated several years ago and add extra stuff to the team besides money (externship coordinator, willing to do overnights, etc.). I should be okay. But everyone who comes onto the team in the next year might not be.

And here I was hoping to get a COL raise in March 🙄

 

[vampyrica]

This happened 15 years ago with the last crash. Newly graduated vets couldn't find jobs, people weren't spending money on their pets, hospitals were closing. Granted, corps weren't as big then, but still. The demand for vets grew astronomically during covid for multiple reasons, anyone who had any idea of anything would have told you that the demand was temporary. Corporations got excited with the increased revenue, expanded at a massive rate, and now we are now in a downswing, which was pretty predictable. We will upswing again, I just don't know when or to what degree. Probably depends on how low we go in the next 4 years.

Honestly I think it boils down to vet med wanting to grow in size, prestige, and quality alongside human medicine without having the money in our clientele to make it happen. Culturally, I don't think it's possible for us to get much closer to human med than we are. It's a huge conversation. For example, doctors and families are willing to put millions of dollars into a sick person's care (not all out of pocket, obvi...another conversation to have) for them to have a questionable prognosis/QOL should they survive. Meanwhile, in vet med, we've still got clients who have the money but are choosing euthanasia for simple diabetes cases, fractures, stable foreign bodies, won't pay for heartworm and flea prevention or vaccines, etc. The dichotomy is massive.


Yes, the profession will still be here, but with an exponential increase in the number of vets floating around. Pet ownership and spending may not increase alongside the number of vets. That's the problem. Only time will tell, but there is a chance we will have thousands of new grads in hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt with absolutely no job prospects.

I'm curious! Does this pertain to every aspect of vet med or just GP/ER? Do you you believe it will affect GP/ER first, and as new grads look for a job, they will gravitate towards LA, Food, Research, Government etc?

 

[JaynaAli]

I'm curious! Does this pertain to every aspect of vet med or just GP/ER? Do you you believe it will affect GP/ER first, and as new grads look for a job, they will gravitate towards LA, Food, Research, Government etc?

Pretty much all. The other areas of vet med have only a limited capacity of absorb more people. The non-small animal areas probably have less room for growth in general than small animal med. Job searchers may look to those areas, but only a small percentage will actually find spots there. There’s a need for more large animal and equine practitioners, but the issues in those fields right now is crappy pay and crappy work life balance because of on-call requirements. That’s not going to improve. If the economy tanks, the large animal owners seek less vet care and do more themselves and only seek vet input on the real bad stuff so it’s harder for those clinics to survive too. More people may get desperate for some paycheck and take those jobs but I don’t see them staying in those roles long term especially when small animal swings back up again. And most “city people” really don’t want to come to my little town of 12k people and make 70k a year. It’s hard to get ahead on that small of a salary, especially if you have giant student loan balances.

In the short term, more people may decide they want to pursue specialties to avoid entering the “real” job market for a while, so those may get even more competitive. but the number of residencies is limiting (and should be, imo) and churning out specialists when people aren’t paying for general level care isn’t smart either. And even if there was a need for more specialists, that Boards process takes so long that it would be like 6 years before programs could increase size and train grads and, as we’ve seen, the profession changes a lot within six years and will they be needed or not?

I’m in pathology and we get fewer submissions when the economy is bad. People won’t spend the money. Then pathologists get laid off or at minimum newly boarded residents don’t get jobs.

It’s always a cycle. But what scares me a little about this one is that all these new schools are gonna flood this cycle and compound a problem we usually bounce back from relatively quickly. Only time will tell how it’ll play out. Hopefully it’s all okay.

 

[battie]

I'm curious! Does this pertain to every aspect of vet med or just GP/ER? Do you you believe it will affect GP/ER first, and as new grads look for a job, they will gravitate towards LA, Food, Research, Government etc?

All of vet med will shrink. The decently okay sectors will get sketchy (GP/ER) and the hard off ones (LA, food animal) will get worse. Fewer people will be buying animal products as well, so herds will be culled and people will sell off their critters. There is less money for research grants. Government jobs are already pretty limited.

And all of these positions will have lower starting salaries. Those on pro-sal are at risk of salary reduction.

 

[pp9]

All of vet med will shrink. The decently okay sectors will get sketchy (GP/ER) and the hard off ones (LA, food animal) will get worse. Fewer people will be buying animal products as well, so herds will be culled and people will sell off their critters. There is less money for research grants. Government jobs are already pretty limited.

And all of these positions will have lower starting salaries. Those on pro-sal are at risk of salary reduction.

Relief markets are already taking a hit for GP/ER/UC, relief is probably the canary in the coal mine. FT reliefers in my market are already making crazy lowball bids on shifts to outcompete each other because the number of shifts has dropped pretty dramatically. My bids are always pretty reasonable, and there are a few people winning these bids by going several hundred less than I am. When you think of how much of the bid ends up going straight to taxes, these people are taking home like $600 per shift for 10+ hours of ER/UC work. The corporatization of relief work is helping and hurting the market as well.

ETA:

as new grads look for a job, they will gravitate towards LA, Food, Research, Government etc?

New grads cannot afford to work in these fields, with the exception of those that graduated with very little (<60k, although depends on who you ask) or no debt. You almost need to be able to make production to live comfortably with student loan payments these days, or have a pretty high straight salary. Some government positions can pay well, but usually only after many years of service...there also aren't a ton of government jobs out there. Research possibly, although more likely if you are a consulting vet for a very large research/medical firm of some sort and either get paid well, or consult on the side of another FT gig.

 

[battie]

Relief markets are already taking a hit for GP/ER/UC, relief is probably the canary in the coal mine.

This is why I'm not super worried for myself. I'm 6th in line in seniority (3rd without the med directors) out of 22 doctors across three hospitals. The old and the new do fine financially and they middle child hospital is a good space with a lot of perks. So none of the hospitals will close. So they'll need the staff doctors to fill the time (270 shifts per month). I'm at 75/hr (actually hourly!) and will definitely be cheaper than relief thankfully

 

[battie]

Lol as an update on two fronts:

1. Having to change to an income based repayment student loan plan cause I cannot afford to keep my standard 10 year plan at 1380/month as an ER doctor.

2. Between the three hospitals in my hospital group, we do not have a single relief doctor covering a shift in February.

 

[maybeavet11]

I know at the end of the day everyone is on an even playing field, but I've got to say... being rejected from the vet program at the same place you did your undergrad is a different level of hurt

 

[turtle36]

my only update is that I feel numb and have no direction about next steps.

Thank you everyone for the helpful, honest, real feedback. I feel like there can be both toxic positivity and biased negativity that come from conversations like this, so the feedback was useful.

As of now, I am just taking every day as it comes, I don’t really have a lot of other options. Hearing many of concerns be validated plus the upcoming political climate, I think stepping away from the field is overall a net positive for myself. Good luck to others like @vampyrica and @Cowsrcool as you continue on your paths forward.

And to any potential applicants here: listen to @pp9 as they are incredibly intelligent, patient, and educated about the application process as a whole.

If I ever return, it’ll be here, but again thanks for everything everyone!

 

[indysadventures]

my only update is that I feel numb and have no direction about next steps.

Thank you everyone for the helpful, honest, real feedback. I feel like there can be both toxic positivity and biased negativity that come from conversations like this, so the feedback was useful.

As of now, I am just taking every day as it comes, I don’t really have a lot of other options. Hearing many of concerns be validated plus the upcoming political climate, I think stepping away from the field is overall a net positive for myself. Good luck to others like @vampyrica and @Cowsrcool as you continue on your paths forward.

And to any potential applicants here: listen to @pp9 as they are incredibly intelligent, patient, and educated about the application process as a whole.

If I ever return, it’ll be here, but again thanks for everything everyone!

I wish you the best of luck as you take a break and rest and put yourself first.

It’s not failure to walk away from something that isn’t working anymore. It’s not failure to want to build something that makes you happy, to take care of yourself.

I hope you can explore and learn about yourself, and if you come back, we’ll be here.

May you thrive and adventure and find great happiness. ❤️

 

[Cowsrcool]

my only update is that I feel numb and have no direction about next steps.

Thank you everyone for the helpful, honest, real feedback. I feel like there can be both toxic positivity and biased negativity that come from conversations like this, so the feedback was useful.

As of now, I am just taking every day as it comes, I don’t really have a lot of other options. Hearing many of concerns be validated plus the upcoming political climate, I think stepping away from the field is overall a net positive for myself. Good luck to others like @vampyrica and @Cowsrcool as you continue on your paths forward.

And to any potential applicants here: listen to @pp9 as they are incredibly intelligent, patient, and educated about the application process as a whole.

If I ever return, it’ll be here, but again thanks for everything everyone!

I’m so sorry to see you go. I truly hope you can heal and move forward whether that leads you to a new path or back to this one! I have no doubts you will be an amazing contribution to whatever you decide to go towards. Truthfully, I’m also in a place where I’m questioning if this is even what I want anymore. The continued rejection and doubt surrounding that continues to plague me :/ idk how people can do this for 3,4,5,6 cycles and still have any shred of self worth bc I’m decimated. I truly envy those people that stare this process down and continue forward. If you ever need someone to commiserate with, I’m here ❤️

 

[littlebalto]

my only update is that I feel numb and have no direction about next steps.

Thank you everyone for the helpful, honest, real feedback. I feel like there can be both toxic positivity and biased negativity that come from conversations like this, so the feedback was useful.

As of now, I am just taking every day as it comes, I don’t really have a lot of other options. Hearing many of concerns be validated plus the upcoming political climate, I think stepping away from the field is overall a net positive for myself. Good luck to others like @vampyrica and @Cowsrcool as you continue on your paths forward.

And to any potential applicants here: listen to @pp9 as they are incredibly intelligent, patient, and educated about the application process as a whole.

If I ever return, it’ll be here, but again thanks for everything everyone!

Wishing you the best in your future work! I know you’ll do great things 🙂

 

[vampyrica]

my only update is that I feel numb and have no direction about next steps.

Thank you everyone for the helpful, honest, real feedback. I feel like there can be both toxic positivity and biased negativity that come from conversations like this, so the feedback was useful.

As of now, I am just taking every day as it comes, I don’t really have a lot of other options. Hearing many of concerns be validated plus the upcoming political climate, I think stepping away from the field is overall a net positive for myself. Good luck to others like @vampyrica and @Cowsrcool as you continue on your paths forward.

And to any potential applicants here: listen to @pp9 as they are incredibly intelligent, patient, and educated about the application process as a whole.

If I ever return, it’ll be here, but again thanks for everything everyone!

sending so much love and light your way, turtle. i have no doubt in my mind that you would have made such a compassionate and field-changing veterinarian however we understand your reasons for leaving the field 🖤

should you ever choose to return, we will await for you with open arms, eager to watch you conquer! best of luck to you on your future endeavors, you are going to kick ass at whatever you do. it has been a pleasure getting to know you over these past few months. we are so sorry to see you go but so excited to see and hear about your next journey! 🖤🖤