Should I tell on a "friend" who is going to lie on AMCAS?

[Mornhavon]

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[DokterMom]

Why did you bother typing all of that? Only your very last sentence was relevant. Everything else sounds like a case study on megalomania.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

That's the point, I think.

 

[Ismet]

When I pulled out my phone to scan the latest threads and saw this title, I figured it was a no brainer that this would be something you report. Imagine my surprise upon seeing the poll results and the vast majority of forum members and moderators alike spouting catch phrases like MYOB or U mad brah. Making a joke about someone who is trying to do the right thing is low. Telling the OP to let this go under the thin excuse that "other people do this too" is even worse. Does anyone realize how many stressed out premeds in the midst of submitting their AMCAS are lurking here and absorb all of this information? By telling OP to look the other way, what is the message that you're telling them? Shame on you.

Thank you for your post, hubriz.

It has been mentioned several times that the correct action to take in this situation, if any action, would be to talk to the girl about what you saw on the application. Explain that you know she is lying, and explain to her the possible consequences of lying, up to and including never becoming a physician. This is what you do in the real world, what you are supposed to do in situations like this when you are a physician and patient care is not at stake. No one here is saying that cheating is okay or that we should just let cheating slide. Cheating is horrible, and I hope she does get caught. I believe she will get caught at some point. But it should not be in the way OP proposed. The message we are telling to the stressed out premeds is that this is not the correct way to handle this situation. It actually has a bigger potential to either hurt OP or not do anything to hurt the girl than it does to actually stop the girl from getting into medical school. That is why the advice is to let it go, or talk to the girl about it.

And FWIW, I don't agree with the argument that OP needs to let it go because other people lie too. Yeah everyone lies, but that doesn't make it okay. I just don't agree with how shady OP is being, and how he didn't even consider talking to the girl before going behind her back and potentially ruining her career without her knowledge. I think THAT is a horrible message to send to premeds, because that is NOT the correct thing to do in the real world.

Edit: I get that pre-meds are enraged by this. It is very upsetting and unfair to know that people are getting ahead by lying while you are fighting hard and being honest. But it should be rather telling that most (all?) of the med students, residents, attendings, and adcoms in this thread agree that reporting the girl is not the right thing to do. It's not because we condone cheating or think it's okay to let it slide. It's because we have a broader and more experienced perspective on what to do in situations like these.

 

[James1992]

Lying is obviously wrong, but I would never feel comfortable deliberately destroying someones future.

 

[hubriz]

I think it's been posted 25 times now. You switch from apathy to responsiveness when patient care is affected.

Negative. It is advisable to respond to this type of behavior before a patient is adversely affected. This is precisely why students who are caught cheating in medical school (or any school, at any level) are reprimanded, perhaps dismissed from the program.

You're now swimming against a consensus that exists at even the lowest level of organized education in the country. Perhaps it is time for you to consider taking the moral highground, and set a positive example.

 

[Ismet]

It is advisable to respond to this type of behavior before a patient is adversely affected.

...by talking to the person in question, not immediately going to report her to AMCAS and medical schools.

In situations where patient care is not affected, it is advisable to talk to the person in question first.

 

[hubriz]

It has been mentioned several times that the correct action to take in this situation, if any action, would be to talk to the girl about what you saw on the application. Explain that you know she is lying, and explain to her the possible consequences of lying, up to and including never becoming a physician. This is what you do in the real world, what you are supposed to do in situations like this when you are a physician and patient care is not at stake. No one here is saying that cheating is okay or that we should just let cheating slide. Cheating is horrible, and I hope she does get caught. I believe she will get caught at some point. But it should not be in the way OP proposed. The message we are telling to the stressed out premeds is that this is not the correct way to handle this situation. It actually has a bigger potential to either hurt OP or not do anything to hurt the girl than it does to actually stop the girl from getting into medical school. That is why the advice is to let it go, or talk to the girl about it.

And FWIW, I don't agree with the argument that OP needs to let it go because other people lie too. Yeah everyone lies, but that doesn't make it okay. I just don't agree with how shady OP is being, and how he didn't even consider talking to the girl before going behind her back and potentially ruining her career without her knowledge. I think THAT is a horrible message to send to premeds, because that is NOT the correct thing to do in the real world.

I believe the courtesy you mention may be advisable should their be any uncertainty surrounding the falsfication of EC's. Aside from that, it is not beyond reason that bringing this to light with one's roommate could cause harm to the accuser. I believe anonymity is offered to reporters of cheating at most institutions; I just checked several online student handbooks. There is good reason for that.

 

[Doodledog]

...by talking to the person in question, not immediately going to report her to AMCAS and medical schools.

In situations where patient care is not affected, it is advisable to talk to the person in question first.

As a longtime adcom member, I concur entirely with this perspective. We are not looking for fellow applicants to inform us of inaccuracies in other applications. We are looking for outstanding applicants to med school. Please focus on making your own application the best it can be and helping to guide ones friends to make the best decisions, not reporting them for this type of thing.

 

[hubriz]

...by talking to the person in question, not immediately going to report her to AMCAS and medical schools.

In situations where patient care is not affected, it is advisable to talk to the person in question first.

This is a call that has to be made by the accuser and is entirely dependent on their comfort level and situation.

Trust story: When I was pursuing my PhD, I briefly had a roomate that was bipolar. I witnessed him (he was 6'4" probably 300 lbs) become extremely aggressive and violent over an innocuous comment made by his friend, as a response to my roomate picking on him for about an hour. I would not feel comfortable approaching him had I suspected he was cheating.

 

[hubriz]

As a longtime adcom member, I concur entirely with this perspective. We are not looking for fellow applicants to inform us of inaccuracies in other applications. We are looking for outstanding applicants to med school. Please focus on making your own application the best it can be and helping to guide ones friends to make the best decisions, not reporting them for this type of thing.

I too would not advise OP to contact all the schools the roommate is applying to. There are other, more reasonable, avenues of recourse, one of which is discussing the matter with the roomate should that available. Contacting AMCAS and putting it on their radar for when they verify the application is another. Or, as Goro mentioned, speaking to the pre-med adviser who can quietly address the matter with the student.

 

[hubriz]

This is a call that has to be made by the accuser and is entirely dependent on their comfort level and situation.

Trust story: When I was pursuing my PhD, I briefly had a roomate that was bipolar. I witnessed him (he was 6'4" probably 300 lbs) become extremely aggressive and violent over an innocuous comment made by his friend, as a response to my roomate picking on him for about an hour. I would not feel comfortable approaching him had I suspected he was cheating.

Edit: I am not suggesting this is the case with OP. However, I think it is important to address this issue in such a way that other pre-meds are left with appropriate recourse and the understanding that their response is situation-dependent.

 

[Ismet]

I too would not advise OP to contact all the schools the roommate is applying to. There are other, more reasonable, avenues of recourse, one of which is discussing the matter with the roomate should that available. Contacting AMCAS and putting it on their radar for when they verify the application is another. Or, as Goro mentioned, speaking to the pre-med adviser who can quietly address the matter with the student.

AMCAS is just an application service. They are there to verify the courses you put in your application with your transcripts. They are not there to verify your work/activities. That is up to individual medical schools to call the contact information listed on AMCAS. Contacting AMCAS will literally do nothing.

This is a call that has to be made by the accuser and is entirely dependent on their comfort level and situation.

Trust story: When I was pursuing my PhD, I briefly had a roomate that was bipolar. I witnessed him (he was 6'4" probably 300 lbs) become extremely aggressive and violent over an innocuous comment made by his friend, as a response to my roomate picking on him for about an hour. I would not feel comfortable approaching him had I suspected he was cheating.

Of course if the person has the potential to physically harm you or is mentally unstable, it would not be wise to confront them. I would hope that would be common sense.

This girl is not OP's roommate. From the sounds of it, it's just an acquaintance, of whom the OP seems jealous.

 

[mimelim]

This is going to be one of my interview questions next season.

 

[jm192]

Negative. It is advisable to respond to this type of behavior before a patient is adversely affected. This is precisely why students who are caught cheating in medical school (or any school, at any level) are reprimanded, perhaps dismissed from the program.

You're now swimming against a consensus that exists at even the lowest level of organized education in the country. Perhaps it is time for you to consider taking the moral highground, and set a positive example.

I'm just agreeing to disagree at this point. You'll have ethics sessions in school.. You'll face these situations, and I would encourage you to seek counsel of those ahead of you in their training.

 

[hubriz]

I'm just agreeing to disagree at this point. You'll have ethics sessions in school.. You'll face these situations, and I would encourage you to seek counsel of those ahead of you in their training.

I am a 32-year old Naval Officer and war-veteran with a PhD that has conducted human subjects research with severely-injured combat casualties. I made a living dealing with ethical dilemmas on a daily basis, but I do look forward to those discussions in medical school. I would encourage you to keep an open mind, and thank you for the discussion.

 

[Planes2Doc]

Now, she got a 36 on her MCAT(pretty damn impressive). And she has a good GPA.

They treat you like a criminal when you take the MCAT. Unless she had James Bond's technology, she did pretty darn well!

But then I got to the ECs section...she completely lied about going to Ecuador and building steps and taking care of children for two weeks.

Unless it's a huge well-known organization that sends people abroad on mission trips, it's probably very easy to find someone random to list as a contact.

She also fabricated her volunteer hours a ton(I know because I volunteer with her). When I say a ton, I mean turning about 30 hours in 500 hours. Not only that, she worked in an office with me not in an emergency department like she claims.

Wait a minute, you said you volunteer with her? Then how does she only have 30 hours? Does this mean that she's taking advantage of the site and doing something like signing in, leaving, and then signing out at the end of the shift? This is a pretty common tactic that the less-than-honest pre-meds use to heavily inflate their verifiable hours, yet not actually do the work. Maybe she personally knows the volunteer coordinator or someone there that can vouch for her.

Moreover, she also put down she is doing 200 hours shadowing in radiology and putting her cousin down as the contact, who is really just an ultrasound tech.

If you're shadowing a physician, why would you not list the physician as the contact? This makes absolutely no sense. She's probably going to screw herself over quite badly because of this. On the other hand, if you're friends with the doctor, you can probably ask them to kindly sign off on heavily inflated hours.

And most egregious of all? The credit she is taking for a research poster presented at the University's undergraduate research conference that another one of my friend's did most of the work on. Lastly, she put down that she is part of the medical fraternity at school.

She might get grilled about this. ADCOMs can also use Google and other methods to uncover the truth regarding this.

She hates poor people and constantly goes on about her ayn rand philosophy of caring about only herself.

Every year you have countless of medical school applicants proclaiming their love to help the underserved and work in primary care. Yet, every year, the underserved are still underserved, and there is still a big primary care shortage all across the country. I think people put a little too much weight on one's intentions for becoming a doctor. But at the end of the day, does it really matter? When I go to my PCP to get treated for something, do I care whether he is doing it for the love of money, or for the love of helping people? I'm not a mind reader, I don't know what his intentions are. Unless your physicians explicitly told you, I don't think that you'll ever know their true intentions. But does it really matter? You're there to get treated for something, you're not there to make friends!

This is why I agree with @circulus vitios regarding ECs, where they are mostly a big dog and pony show and ultimately have little to no bearing on what kind of physician you'll be. Another issue that I mentioned earlier is, where exactly do you draw the line? If she did 270 hours of volunteering, but wrote down 300, is that still lying? I think people here all might have different perspectives on what they would consider to be honest in the application process.

Finally, I don't think many of us will know who the liars really are. Most people who lie on their applications aren't dumb enough to brag about it to others. They are quiet about it, and as long as they never say a word, no one will be suspicious. I'm willing to guess that a large number of your future classmates in medical won't be those super dooper honest morally-upstanding SDN members who are always riding on their high course. If your friend bragged about these things, then I'm sure that she has her bases covered. If her activities are verified, they will likely come up legitimate, since she either knows the right people or manipulated things properly to her advantage. But hey, that's life. You'll have that happening everywhere. Like others said, unless someone's life is jeopardized as a result of this, I'd let it go.

I'm willing to guess she's kind of like George Costanza and Vandelay Industries:

 

[Ipper91]

I hope this thread does not make more people want to lie and cheat........

 

[23premes]

I hope this thread does not make more people want to lie and cheat........

Cheaters and liars don't just start now. They usually start much much earlier.

 

[rachel993]

.....wait what does OP mean?

 

[23premes]

.....wait what does OP mean?

If one is gonna lie on an application to med school they don't just magically decide they are gonna lie. They lie and cheat on a bunch of things. The only consideration one will have is if they will get caught...this thread isn't gonna magically make more people lie on their app.

 

[Planes2Doc]

.....wait what does OP mean?

OP = Original poster

 

[23premes]

OP = Original poster

Sorry, my bad.

 

[Planes2Doc]

Sorry, my bad.

All good. You provided a nice synopsis a few pages away from the original post. 🙂

 

[Annabell Lee]

This is just ignorance.

Are you picking up arms to go rescue the missing Nigerian girls? No? Oh, I guess you condone it.

To further it though--read the first post. I personally get the impression the OP just doesn't like the other girl.

Then OP asked to see it, and subsequently wants to report something they found. So, you don't like someone and asked to see their stuff? That sounds fishy. And then your fishy behavior leads you to turn someone in? And we're going to act like THAT is ethical?

Same here. Giving the benefit of the doubt, but it's very easy to read OPs posts as someone who dislikes a class mate trying to justify doing something out of spite. Until she posted about talking to the professor, it also looked like she had absolutely no proof of her claims.

I'm always hearing about how ADCOMs lurk SDN. OP, if you do report this, especially if nothing comes back on her, even if no one saw this thread, it will reflect very poorly on you. Even after seeing some "proof", it is very hard to read your thread in a way that doesn't make you look petty, spiteful, and unprofessional.

 

[UlahSnackbar]

Same here. Giving the benefit of the doubt, but it's very easy to read OPs posts as someone who dislikes a class mate trying to justify doing something out of spite. Until she posted about talking to the professor, it also looked like she had absolutely no proof of her claims.

I'm always hearing about how ADCOMs lurk SDN. OP, if you do report this, especially if nothing comes back on her, even if no one saw this thread, it will reflect very poorly on you. Even after seeing some "proof", it is very hard to read your thread in a way that doesn't make you look petty, spiteful, and unprofessional.

How am I unprofessional? I am not lying. SHE IS. Sure, I do not like this person much at all, but that does not change the fact that she is doing something very wrong that affects all applicants this year.

 

[CardiologyPrincess]

Just worry about yourself, dude. Let it go.

I say just focus on yourself. Don't even worry about her issues because they most definitely will catch up with her. The interviewers have seen it all and I'm sure they'll smell the rat. But that's her problem not yours.


You are only stressing yourself out and for no reason. Cheers! 🙂!

 

[CardiologyPrincess]

It also looks bad if you do say something. Example if you talk bad about previous employers to interviews then they'll assume you'll talk badly of them and not hire you...

 

[BiochemMaster]

I think some people here think that you are being immature and medical schools will think you are whiny, so try this. Go to the head of the volunteer program in the hospital that she is at and ask him/her to confront your friend about this. I think that is the best person you can tell because:
1) he/she can destroy your friends future but also warn hr so she does not lie
2) you won't be harmed because he will hold the 'snitch' to be anonymous

 

[UlahSnackbar]

Unfortunately I did not take action soon enough and this person already submitted her AMCAS. I'm assuming unchanged from what I mentioned earlier, so the only option I have left is to write short, anonymous letters to medical schools. If she actually decided to tell the truth then no harm done and they won't know who wrote the letter, or if she kept the lies in her application, the hammer of justice will come down on her.

 

[Frazier]

Unfortunately I did not take action soon enough and this person already submitted her AMCAS. I'm assuming unchanged from what I mentioned earlier, so the only option I have left is to write short, anonymous letters to medical schools. If she actually decided to tell the truth then no harm done and they won't know who wrote the letter, or if she kept the lies in her application, the hammer of justice will come down on her.

Actually it isn't "no harm done".

I'm sure if a school received a letter about an applicant claiming how "terrible the person is and how much they lie", it will be leave a sour taste in the school's mouth [whether or not the made up trip to Ecuador is actually listed on the AMCAS].

There are so many applicants available to take seats, why bother with one that might come with extra baggage? There are 50 other applicants with a 36 mcat and good GPA that can take that seat -- applicants that don't come with random anonymous hate mail about their doings.

Long story short, yet again, you are seemingly oblivious to the ramifications of your actions and warped mode of thinking.

It is humorous how you now switched to anonymous letters in order to protect yourself.

You are deceitful and manipulative -- and it is a shame that you don't have the insight to realize either.

 

[Ismet]

Actually it isn't "no harm done".

I'm sure if a school received a letter about an applicant claiming how "terrible the person is and how much they lie", it will be leave a sour taste in the school's mouth [whether or not the made up trip to Ecuador is actually listed on the AMCAS].

There are so many applicants available to take seats, why bother with one that might come with extra baggage? There are 50 other applicants with a 36 mcat and good GPA that can take that seat -- applicants that don't come with random anonymous hate mail about their doings.

Long story short, yet again, you are seemingly oblivious to the ramifications of your actions and warped mode of thinking.

It is humorous how you now switched to anonymous letters in order to protect yourself.

You are deceitful and manipulative -- and it is a shame that you don't have the insight to realize either.

I agree with everything except that the school really won't put any stock into the fact that someone sent hate mail about another applicant. Maybe it would prompt them to call the contact information to confirm some of the work/activities, but there are LORs for a reason. Any jealous and spiteful pre-med can make up hate mail about another applicant, but the only letters that are taken into account are the letters of recommendation.

 

[Shjanzey]

Don't you know we that choose to post on SDN, all spent every summer in Africa or Latin America building steps, digging wells, and saving those poor under-served populations from their own lack of hygiene? I myself started volunteering and shadowing when I was in sixth grade, so I had accumulated a mediocre number of hours by the time I graduated. Although some people may consider 3000 hours "impressive", these days it is hardly enough to even raise eyebrows at my local state school.

As my mentor once said, he's a dermatologist that moonlights as a dual neurosurgery/rads on-call, "Only the chosen are called into this great field. As I was chosen by my mentor, so I have chosen you. You shall be my anointed one." I found those words so inspiring, I put them in my PS. I think the adcoms were impressed because they gave me a standing ovation.

Your friend is pretty impressive, but she should be glad she didn't meet some of us SDNers first, otherwise she might have written a spiteful thread about me instead. I probably wouldn't mind, I am still chasing that perfect 45 on the MCAT, so I am using this last free summer before med school to see if I can better my 43 🙁

 

[Frazier]

I agree with everything except that the school really won't put any stock into the fact that someone sent hate mail about another applicant. Maybe it would prompt them to call the contact information to confirm some of the work/activities, but there are LORs for a reason. Any jealous and spiteful pre-med can make up hate mail about another applicant, but the only letters that are taken into account are the letters of recommendation.

I can't really disagree with you because it never happened to me, or anyone I know. So I don't have the evidence. 🙂

That said, I know some schools have an initial screening process that can essentially go through a single person skimming the app for a couple minutes as to if the applicant is offered an interview or not.

How do I know? Because I had a few II's myself from schools that extended what appeared to be almost auto-invites [despite my numbers not warranting such]. The fastest? 15-20 minutes after I clicked "submit" on the secondary. Conclusion: At some school's someone goes through the entire file and does it quick.

All I can give is my n=1 opinion of:

If I'm that screener described above and I have a pile of 50 applicants with near identical mcats/gpa's/shining LOR's/well written essays/etc... I need to whittle down the number in some way. If the secretary decided to print out random hate mail letter (since I bet it is relatively rare to get such scathing things about applicants in the mail-- it's not like every other applicant has this happen to them) and decides to include it in a student's file with a big question mark on it, well, looks like that might be a good applicant to start pruning the list with (if for no other reason than there being 49 other near-clones that don't warrant hate mail).

 

[Annabell Lee]

How am I unprofessional? I am not lying. SHE IS. Sure, I do not like this person much at all, but that does not change the fact that she is doing something very wrong that affects all applicants this year.

I'm not saying you are, just that it is VERY easy to come across as such online.

 

[Got Heem]

Unfortunately I did not take action soon enough and this person already submitted her AMCAS. I'm assuming unchanged from what I mentioned earlier, so the only option I have left is to write short, anonymous letters to medical schools. If she actually decided to tell the truth then no harm done and they won't know who wrote the letter, or if she kept the lies in her application, the hammer of justice will come down on her.

Why an anonymous letter? I figured a beacon of truth and justice such as yourself would want to revel in all the accolades that are sure to come your way after ousting your friend as a liar.

 

[lobo.solo]

She is probably going to get caught. Adcoms are not idiots, they've been doing admissions for a while, so I imagine that if something is fishy they will find out eventually. Adcoms sort of verify the applicants activities through LORs and interviews. The question is why didn't you confront your "friend" right away? Why not ask her about the lies on her app? It seems weird to me that you didn't ask right away.

 

[mjhhockey98]

Unfortunately I did not take action soon enough and this person already submitted her AMCAS. I'm assuming unchanged from what I mentioned earlier, so the only option I have left is to write short, anonymous letters to medical schools. If she actually decided to tell the truth then no harm done and they won't know who wrote the letter, or if she kept the lies in her application, the hammer of justice will come down on her.

You are literally the worst kind of person

 

[UlahSnackbar]

Why an anonymous letter? I figured a beacon of truth and justice such as yourself would want to revel in all the accolades that are sure to come your way after ousting your friend as a liar.

Because everyone here is telling me for some reason that I will face retaliation if I report this person. If someone could guarantee me immunity from this then I would give my identity. I am no coward, unlike you sitting behind your keyboard and judging me.

 

[UlahSnackbar]

You are literally the worst kind of person

And you are another example of what is wrong with the pre-med community. By attacking me you support liars that perpetuate the cycle of denying qualified applicants to medical school because of lying applicants that take their spots.

 

[mjhhockey98]

And you are another example of what is wrong with the pre-med community. By attacking me you support liars that perpetuate the cycle of denying qualified applicants to medical school because of lying applicants that take their spots.

And your logic is terrible...

 

[23premes]

Wow, the OP went from trying to do the "right thing" to trying to screw someone over. Seriously, wth is wrong with you!? Maybe have someone that knows you well comb through your application and then write a nice fat anonymous letter about how you fudged your numbers or embellished your app. You have no freaking clue what she submitted. You did not watch her submit her application. If you are this concerned, go ahead and call the AMCAS. Do you really think Adcoms are so stupid that they are going to believe everything someone writes in their application!? You think they are so naive to think no one lies in their application? It's their job to figure that stuff out and what you are doing doesn't seem to be coming from some moral high ground but some spiteful gunner type personality.

 

[drcrispmd]

You should have talked with her when you were reading it instead if planning to go behind her back. When you have an issue with someone, you should talk directly to them about it. It is not your job to make sure or prove everything in her application was legit. You may think telling on her is the best, but you are "throwing her under the bus". Are you going to do that to your fellow medical student, or resident if you get that far? Concentrate on your own application. You missed the chance to discuss this with her.

 

[Sam212]

OP, whether your friend get into med school or not, I sure wish that you don't. I would hate work with anyone like you who stabs people in the back as opposed to confronting them. This friend of yours clearly thinks of you as their friend and confided in you when they showed you their AMCAS. And now you're out to sabotage them. This friend has worked really hard to get to where they are, and you have no regard for that. You are out to get them because you think they are not deserving/jealousy. I feel sorry for you. This **** won't ever fly with most people in medical field. You are a gunner and you know it, trying to benefit at other's expense. I don't care whether your friend gets into med school or not, but I sure as heck hope that you don't.

 

[el_duderino]

Well talking to people about something that concerns you is hard.

It's much easier to close your eyes until it's "too late" to talk to them and just send out anonymous letters instead.

 

[snaliger]

I just don't understand how anyone could lie so elaborately. I feel like at some point there will be an interview question that she won't be able to answer because she didn't do these things. It is one thing to use good wording to describe something that happened and another to completely fabricate it all.

Honestly, I feel bad for your friend. She shouldn't have to lie to get into medical school. Her stats are good, and medical schools don't care about quantity as much as quality and how much you learned from the experience. If she does feel like she needs more volunteer hours, maybe she should volunteer for a year and then apply to medical school. If AMCAS finds out she lied, she could get into big trouble. These aren't small lies.

If your friend really wants to be a doctor, she shouldn't lie on her application like that. It is a dishonest act and it really scares me what kinds of people are going into the field of medicine. Doctors are dealing with people's lives. If she lies about her AMCAS, who knows what life-threatening thing she could be lying about in the future?

I don't know if I would tell AMCAS, but I would tell an advisor at your school's premed office so at least they can tell you what actions to take.

 

[DermViser]

I like how @UlahSnackbar went from wanting to do the right thing based on principle of honesty to actively going out of their way to screw and backstab someone --- "I'm assuming unchanged from what I mentioned earlier, so the only option I have left is to write short, anonymous letters to medical schools. If she actually decided to tell the truth then no harm done and they won't know who wrote the letter, or if she kept the lies in her application, the hammer of justice will come down on her."

If she decided to tell the truth - then you doing this actually does hurt her.

 

[DermViser]

This is a call that has to be made by the accuser and is entirely dependent on their comfort level and situation.

Trust story: When I was pursuing my PhD, I briefly had a roomate that was bipolar. I witnessed him (he was 6'4" probably 300 lbs) become extremely aggressive and violent over an innocuous comment made by his friend, as a response to my roomate picking on him for about an hour. I would not feel comfortable approaching him had I suspected he was cheating.

I'm curious what comment you would describe as innocuous.

 

[Fabio Lanzoni]

I just don't understand how anyone could lie so elaborately. I feel like at some point there will be an interview question that she won't be able to answer because she didn't do these things. It is one thing to use good wording to describe something that happened and another to completely fabricate it all.

There are people who are extremely good at lying. It's great that so many people on this thread have a lot of faith in interviewers but in reality she'll probably get away with it. If you're not a good enough liar that you would get tripped up in your lies, you wouldn't fabricate to that extent in the first place. People aren't that stupid

 

[hubriz]

I'm curious what comment you would describe as innocuous.

I don't understand what your saying here. I've been out of the loop of this for several days.

 

[hubriz]

Unfortunately I did not take action soon enough and this person already submitted her AMCAS. I'm assuming unchanged from what I mentioned earlier, so the only option I have left is to write short, anonymous letters to medical schools. If she actually decided to tell the truth then no harm done and they won't know who wrote the letter, or if she kept the lies in her application, the hammer of justice will come down on her.

I don't think this is the right thing to do. There is uncertainty regarding the facts, and I think before any school is contacted the facts in question should be investigated by an unbiased source, and action should be taken on the basis of the findings.

You have the potential to unfairly harm this individual, and you are not in an appropriate position of authority to do so, which is why contacting your pre-med advisor or AMCAS would have been advisable; you would have essentially put the ball in their court and washed your hands of it.

Instead, you sit on your hands until the application ia submitted and claim writing anonymous letters to the schools is your only option. It is not.

I applaud anyone that stands up for fairness, but in your effort to do so, you have become tyrannical and unfair. You had the right idea, but you executed it poorly. It's a shame, really.