Since when does med school= nursing?

[Ismet]

Even if it's an understandable reaction, you still have to admit, people assuming you're becoming a nurse when you're busting ass to become a physician is in a word, ****ty.

I guess I'm in the minority that it really doesn't bother me. Other people's misconceptions and judgments about who/what I am doesn't really affect me, I'm still going to do what I plan and need to do. A pt thinks I'm a nurse? That's nice. I'm still going to do your H&P.

Sometimes you can even take it as a compliment, as pts tend to like nurses more than doctors. Medical students are actually more like nurses in regards to the amount of time they spend with patients. I can spend 40 minutes talking to a patient, then give a few minute presentation to the doctor, the doctor sees her for 5 minutes, and she's out the door. I know when I'm a doctor I won't have 40 minutes to talk to a patient, and it's mostly not the doctor's fault that he can't spend more time with the patient. But for now, I care less about the patient thinking I'm a nurse and more about the patient feeling comfortable enough with me to tell me some of the harder or more embarrassing parts of her medical history.

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[mvenus929]

Maybe you shouldn't be wearing scrubs outside? Theres a reason why there's basically no more distinction between community and hospital acquired mrsa. Also it's gross

One of my attendings actually did research on this and found that hospital acquired MRSA is a very wimpy bug that preys on the relatively immunocompromised. Most people aren't at risk of acquiring it. Community acquired MRSA, on the other hand, affects like 20% of people out in the community, relatively healthy people because it is a much hardier bug. Based on these findings, he actually recommended that we don't screen for MRSA at admission anymore, and don't put those with CA MRSA on isolation because it does a ton of harm, with relatively no benefit. And there are some hospitals who don't.

And, as far as I am aware, there are no studies showing that wearing scrubs outside the hospital in affects transmission of microbials (specifically increased wound infections, etc as related to surgery). If you are aware of any, I'd love to read them.

 

[Psai]

You don't need a study for everything and having a paper that says something doesn't make it true. It's a little common sense otherwise why even bother having scrubs at all

 

[tdram]

You don't need a study for everything and having a paper that says something doesn't make it true.

Well unless you have a paper saying it's false, the evidence we have is the only evidence we have. If we're gonna start ignoring studies we should just flip a coin instead when we make decisions.

 

[Psai]

Well unless you have a paper saying it's false, the evidence we have is the only evidence we have. If we're gonna start ignoring studies we should just flip a coin instead when we make decisions.

That's basically our job, it's called clinical judgment

 

[Mosa]

I recently spoke to my female cousin and she was complaining to me about people assuming she's in nursing school anytime someone asks her "so what do you do" or "what have you been up to." She says almost 95% of the time they respond with something like "oh my sisters a nurse too" or something about how great it is that she's becoming a nurse. She's a pretty girl, not sure if that has anything to do with it. But I think it's rather bizarre that almost everyone (who is not in medicine) thinks med school= nursing school. I assume this happens all the time too while in the hospital rotations and even when she graduates. Anyone else experience this?

This has to do with the fact that she is female. If you ask female doctors, residents, medical students, etc, etc, they've all heard this one. It's a shared experience in my medical school.

 

[Smurfette]

I still get called nurse a LOT as an attending. And not necessarily only by older male patients; I've had some women and some 20-something men do it too.

In the last 2 months, I had an inpatient consult refuse to see me based only on the fact that I'm female and have had several male patients make comments about a "girl" or "nurse" doing their surgeries despite it being very clear what my title is and ancillary staff also trying to correct them. Friday in clinic, one patient (s/p emergency procedure) said I "did ok, despite being handicapped as a woman"...it took him two days in the hospital to finally stop referring to me as a nurse and to finally acknowledge that I'm a doctor, so I considered a grumbled "doing ok" a victory.

It usually doesn't bother me if someone calls me nurse; I have accepted that this is going to happen and I simply politely correct them. It does bother me if they continue to refer to me as nurse once I have explained otherwise.

 

[DermViser]

See but then what happens.
I am talking to a girl (who is not my wife).
I ask "What do you do?"
She says "I'm in medical school."
I reply "So you're going to be a doctor?"
To which I hear "No... a nurse."
*my surprised face*

Hence, how you know she's a Nurse Practitioner.

 

[maxxor]

Hence, how you know she's a Nurse Practitioner.

But they practice nursing.

 

[DermViser]

But they practice nursing.

Only when it comes to taking blame. They're "doctors" when it comes to taking credit.

 

[mvenus929]

You don't need a study for everything and having a paper that says something doesn't make it true. It's a little common sense otherwise why even bother having scrubs at all

Sorry, let me be more clear. The studies I have seen on the subject specifically state that changing scrubs does not decrease the rate of post surgical infections. There are plenty of studies that show white coats and ties and whatnot are covered in microbials, but these studies do not necessarily translate to spread of infection.

There are a lot of things we considered "common sense" that have been proven false or harmful (blood letting, going out with your hair wet causes colds, etc), so that's not a very good argument for doing something. I'd argue that we have scrubs for the benefit of the surgeon and staff... So that they don't get bodily fluids on their nice clothes. After all, in surgeries, they're all gowned and booted up anyway, so it's not like the scrubs come into contact with the open wound.

 

[drcrispmd]

Females medical students and residents will be called nurse a lot. you have to learn to deal with it and politely correct them. As a resident you will be asked "when do you finish school," "so when will you be a real doctor," etc. When a patient says, oh the nurse is here when I walk in a room, I just introduce myself as "Dr.xxx." Our white coats that our residency gave us had our names on them (Dr. XXX, MD/DO) and I was still called a nurse. As a medical student, introduce yourself as Student Dr. to patients.
Now when people ask me what kind of doctor I am, I get "oh you are just a general practioner." It is annoying, but I clarify that I am family medicine and did 3 years of post medical school training and not just 1 year.

 

[ChEMD]

Females medical students and residents will be called nurse a lot. you have to learn to deal with it and politely correct them. As a resident you will be asked "when do you finish school," "so when will you be a real doctor," etc. When a patient says, oh the nurse is here when I walk in a room, I just introduce myself as "Dr.xxx." Our white coats that our residency gave us had our names on them (Dr. XXX, MD/DO) and I was still called a nurse. As a medical student, introduce yourself as Student Dr. to patients.
Now when people ask me what kind of doctor I am, I get "oh you are just a general practioner." It is annoying, but I clarify that I am family medicine and did 3 years of post medical school training and not just 1 year.

Do students actually introduce themselves as student doctor? Sounds quite pretentious to me. And I doubt anyone outside of the medical field, and anyone in it under 40, even recognize the distinction that you're trying to get at with the term "general practitioner" (I personally had to look it up). I get that people who only completed a year of residency were called general practitioner a while back by the newly recognized family med doctors, but in today's world, general practitioner = primary care, and I don't really see the need to take offense or even correct patients on the distinction. When a patient says you're a general practitioner, they are just referring to the fact that you are not a specialist, and are no way implying that you only completed one year of post-graduate training.

 

[Ismet]

Do students actually introduce themselves as student doctor? Sounds quite pretentious to me. And I doubt anyone outside of the medical field, and anyone in it under 40, even recognize the distinction that you're trying to get at with the term "general practitioner" (I personally had to look it up). I get that people who only completed a year of residency were called general practitioner a while back by the newly recognized family med doctors, but in today's world, general practitioner = primary care, and I don't really see the need to take offense or even correct patients on the distinction. When a patient says you're a general practitioner, they are just referring to the fact that you are not a specialist, and are no way implying that you only completed one year of post-graduate training.

I've never introduced myself as "student doctor" but my attending has done that in instances where they're introducing me or in family-centered rounds when they ask me a question. When it's just me, I say "hello, my name is ________, I am the medical student working with Dr. ______ today"

 

[Winged Scapula]

Why is "student doctor" pretentious?

After all, I can verify that nursing students are referred to as "student nurse"; the OR tech students are "student techs" etc. Are those pretentious?

 

[Psai]

Why is "student doctor" pretentious?

After all, I can verify that nursing students are referred to as "student nurse"; the OR tech students are "student techs" etc. Are those pretentious?

Because everyone else wants to be called doctor

 

[Winged Scapula]

Because everyone else wants to be called doctor

Yes and then we've got the real (student) doctors who feel that actually calling themselves that is somehow pretentious.

 

[ChEMD]

Why is "student doctor" pretentious?

After all, I can verify that nursing students are referred to as "student nurse"; the OR tech students are "student techs" etc. Are those pretentious?

To be honest, it's just the way that it hits my ears...maybe pretentious isn't the exact right word, but it definitely sounds off to me. Unless explicitly told to do so, I don't think I'll be introducing myself as student doctor ____ (would you use your first or last name right there?). Do the nursing or tech students actually say "hello, I'm student tech ____"? Or is it more when they're referred to in 3rd person by a superior?

 

[ChEMD]

Double post, sorry.

 

[drcrispmd]

Medical students in clinical training are student doctors. I introduce the students following me as this. I don't see why is should be an issue. It allows the patient to know what your role is on the team.

Patients were not the ones who say "oh you are JUST a general practioner," it is people in my small home town and it the community. It was the fact they used JUST like family med doc is a easy thing and anyone could do it. I had one who after me telling them I am a family medicine doc said "oh I thought you were going to school to be a real doc." Her child had grown up telling everyone they were going to be a doc and ended up failing out of the first year of college.

 

[Winged Scapula]

To be honest, it's just the way that it hits my ears. Unless explicitly told to do so, I don't think I'll be introducing myself as student doctor ____ (would you use your first or last name right there?). Do the nursing or tech students actually say "hello, I'm student tech ____"? Or is it more when they're referred to in 3rd person by a superior?

Both, but most of the time the nursing and tech students don't introduce themelves to me (too scared I guess).

When I have student in the office, I'll ask them what they prefer and usually end up saying something like, "this is X, a senior student finishing their medical school training before going into specialty x". I believe most introduce themselves to the patient as "medical student" but since the term medical student seems confusing to the laypublic I don't blame anyone for attempting to clarify that with the term student doctor.

 

[drcrispmd]

Most of the attending a I had as a student wanted us to introduce ourselves in this manner. this is also how we were introduced by the attending and residents most of the time.

 

[DermViser]

Females medical students and residents will be called nurse a lot. you have to learn to deal with it and politely correct them. As a resident you will be asked "when do you finish school," "so when will you be a real doctor," etc. When a patient says, oh the nurse is here when I walk in a room, I just introduce myself as "Dr.xxx." Our white coats that our residency gave us had our names on them (Dr. XXX, MD/DO) and I was still called a nurse. As a medical student, introduce yourself as Student Dr. to patients.
Now when people ask me what kind of doctor I am, I get "oh you are just a general practioner." It is annoying, but I clarify that I am family medicine and did 3 years of post medical school training and not just 1 year.

And soon it will be "oh you are just a nurse practitioner" bc every DNPer wishes to to be addressed as doctor.

 

[ChEMD]

Both, but most of the time the nursing and tech students don't introduce themelves to me (too scared I guess).

When I have student in the office, I'll ask them what they prefer and usually end up saying something like, "this is X, a senior student finishing their medical school training before going into specialty x". I believe most introduce themselves to the patient as "medical student" but since the term medical student seems confusing to the laypublic I don't blame anyone for attempting to clarify that with the term student doctor.

I definitely see what you all are saying, and I wouldn't mind if a superior introduced me as a student doctor. However, if I were the one saying it, I almost feel like it could be seen as though I'm just trying to throw the word doctor in there to command more respect. Does it ever seem like patients feel that way? I could just see it being a little off putting, especially to a less educated patient that may interpret it as you trying to establish superiority over them.

 

[maxxor]

I definitely see what you all are saying, and I wouldn't mind if a superior introduced me as a student doctor. However, if I were the one saying it, I almost feel like it could be seen as though I'm just trying to throw the word doctor in there to command more respect. Does it ever seem like patients feel that way? I could just see it being a little off putting, especially to a less educated patient that may interpret it as you trying to establish superiority over them.

You worked hard to get into medical school. The time for imposter syndrome has passed. Own your role.

You are a student doctor, where doctor is the title you are studying to become.

 

[Psai]

Both, but most of the time the nursing and tech students don't introduce themelves to me (too scared I guess).

When I have student in the office, I'll ask them what they prefer and usually end up saying something like, "this is X, a senior student finishing their medical school training before going into specialty x". I believe most introduce themselves to the patient as "medical student" but since the term medical student seems confusing to the laypublic I don't blame anyone for attempting to clarify that with the term student doctor.

I tell them that I'm a medical student and that it means that I'm practicing to be a doctor. If someone calls me a doctor by accident I correct them. People seem to get it. All the residents I've met so far say to call them by their first name and don't insist on me calling them doctor. People who aren't actually doctors but have a doctorate seem to be kinda adamant about getting called doctor though, I don't know what it is.

 

[DermViser]

I tell them that I'm a medical student and that it means that I'm practicing to be a doctor. If someone calls me a doctor by accident I correct them. People seem to get it. All the residents I've met so far say to call them by their first name and don't insist on me calling them doctor. People who aren't actually doctors but have a doctorate seem to be kinda adamant about getting called doctor though, I don't know what it is.

It's called insecurity. Hence: First Name Last Name BSN LPN RN ARNP FNP CRNA OMG BRB LOL LMAO

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nursing_credentials_and_certifications

• TNP: Telephone Nursing Practitioner

 

[Winged Scapula]

I definitely see what you all are saying, and I wouldn't mind if a superior introduced me as a student doctor. However, if I were the one saying it, I almost feel like it could be seen as though I'm just trying to throw the word doctor in there to command more respect. Does it ever seem like patients feel that way? I could just see it being a little off putting, especially to a less educated patient that may interpret it as you trying to establish superiority over them.

Nope; I don't see it. Patients are a lot more comfortable with it than you assume. Those that aren't just go ahead and call you (and the attending) by their first name anyway.

All adults are aware that there are people who have more education and more money than others. If they feel inferior, it's either because of their own psychological issues or perhaps because your behavior is off putting.

You describe your role - whether it's doctor, lawyer, congressman, architect and you proceed to do the job you've been consulted for. You can do that without being pretentious. Frankly I am more bothered by physicians who insist that patients call them by their first name (or "call me Dr Bob!" "See, I'm the same as you - I'm even wearing a trucker hat and I have lots of tattoos too!") as they are already making assumptions about a patients education/SES and level of comfort and understanding without giving them the benefit of the doubt.

I'm pretty liberal socially but this "doctor guilt" where everyone has to act like we're all the same is a recent invention; sort of like giving all kids blue ribbons for participation.

 

[ChEMD]

You worked hard to get into medical school. The time for imposter syndrome has passed. Own your role.

You are a student doctor, where doctor is the title you are studying to become.

It really has nothing to do with feeling like an imposter or a lack of confidence, it's more not wanting to come off in a negative way to a patient, because I know how I innately perceive the phrase "student doctor ____" when I hear it. But I'll take your word for it if you all say that it's not received in a negative way by patients.

Edit: Honestly, I think it's just the way it rolls off the tongue for me. For whatever reason, I'm even more comfortable with someone saying "Hello, my name is ____, and I'm a student doctor".

 

[Winged Scapula]

It's called insecurity. Hence: First Name Last Name BSN LPN RN ARNP FNP CRNA OMG BRB LOL LMAO

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nursing_credentials_and_certifications

• TNP: Telephone Nursing Practitioner

Yep.

On the placard outside our office, who has the most acreage on the sign?

The Gyn Oncologist? Nope.

The Breast surgeons? Nope.

The RN, APN, WXYandZ.

 

[DermViser]

Yep.

On the placard outside out our office, who has the most acreage on the sign?

The Gyn Oncologist? Nope.

The Breast surgeons? Nope.

The RN, APN, WXYandZ.

You should tell her that if her outcomes aren't any better, there is no need for those extra credentials.

 

[Ismet]

Meh, I don't really think the "student doctor" thing is pretentious, it's just something I never got in the habit of doing. I actually seem to remember someone telling us when we were 1st years to not introduce ourselves as student doctor because the patient might miss the "student" part and think you're a doctor. When we were first learning to do H&Ps on standardized patients, we were instructed to introduce ourselves as "medical student," so that just stuck. It would feel weird to me to call myself "student doctor," but that's just because "medical student" has been ingrained into my being for the last 2.5 years, not because I think I would be pretentious. To each his own though.

 

[Winged Scapula]

You should tell her that if her outcomes aren't any better, there is no need for those extra credentials.

LOL - well she works for the GYN ONC who's a friend of mine so not really my place. I just make snide comments that if she gets anymore initials behind her name they'll just need to take the doctors off the placard as there won't be room for us.

 

[KnuxNole]

You don't need a study for everything and having a paper that says something doesn't make it true. It's a little common sense otherwise why even bother having scrubs at all

To be fair, wearing scrubs on the floor is no different than wearing dress clothes in term of exposure. It's not like there is something unique about scrubs...in most hospitals, you see people drive to/from work in scrubs. Of course, if a patient has MRSA, they'll be in contact precautions.

Hell, most of the time, I feel dirtier in dress clothes compared to scrubs. As we all know, in surgery, we are scrubbed in which don't affect most of the scrub clothes.

 

[VisionaryTics]

I got asked today by the circulating nurse if I was a pre-med shadowing my attending. She seemed confused when I sawed the sternum open.

 

[Ismet]

I got asked today by the circulating nurse if I was a pre-med shadowing my attending. She seemed confused when I sawed the sternum open.

Did you do so while staring her in the face? Because that would have been BA.

 

[evilbooyaa]

I'm OK with being referred to student doctor in the 3rd person, but I wouldn't use it. I always use medical student working with so and so doctor.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

To be fair, wearing scrubs on the floor is no different than wearing dress clothes in term of exposure. It's not like there is something unique about scrubs...in most hospitals, you see people drive to/from work in scrubs. Of course, if a patient has MRSA, they'll be in contact precautions.

Hell, most of the time, I feel dirtier in dress clothes compared to scrubs. As we all know, in surgery, we are scrubbed in which don't affect most of the scrub clothes.

At the very least, at least I know the scrubs have (most likely) only been on for one shift/day. People who wear dress clothes to work everyday will often wear the same pair of pants/same skirt/blouse/etc multiple days in between trips to the dry cleaner...

 

[Geekchick921]

This has happened to be countless times in the last two years. It can be aggravating, especially when you've already said you're a medical student. As others have pointed out, it never happens to guys.

In fact, I'm surprised no one posted this yet.

This is the most diplomatic response. I think someone told it to me in person, but I might have read it here. It's also in a post on KevinMD. Just say, "Thanks for the compliment, but I'm not your nurse. I'm your doctor/student doctor."

 

[fab4fan]

LOL - well she works for the GYN ONC who's a friend of mine so not really my place. I just make snide comments that if she gets anymore initials behind her name they'll just need to take the doctors off the placard as there won't be room for us.

Hold it...she works for the gyn/onc, but her "acreage" is larger than his?

 

[Winged Scapula]

Hold it...she works for the gyn/onc, but her "acreage" is larger than his?

Yep.

She has more initials behind her name, so takes up more room on sign (she's also listed first for some reason).

 

[Winged Scapula]

This has happened to be countless times in the last two years. It can be aggravating, especially when you've already said you're a medical student. As others have pointed out, it never happens to guys.

In fact, I'm surprised no one posted this yet.

This is the most diplomatic response. I think someone told it to me in person, but I might have read it here. It's also in a post on KevinMD. Just say, "Thanks for the compliment, but I'm not your nurse. I'm your doctor/student doctor."

Wait until you're the attending and patients call you by your first name while referring to the male consultants as Dr.

 

[fancymylotus]

Wait until you're the attending and patients call you by your first name while referring to the male consultants as Dr.

I have a large subset of patients who insist that I'm the nurse(since when did you see a nurse in a dental office) and think its "so cute" that they "let girls become doctors nowadays"

 

[Roxas]

I saw this little gem on my news feed this morning:

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I saw this little gem on my news feed this morning:

Aside from the stupidity of the action this Amy person took...what's really amazing is the audacity to brag about it on Facebook. Someone should forward this to her hospital's office of clinical affairs.

 

[fancymylotus]

What a twit

 

[BANGO]

.

 

[Roxas]

In hearing NP/DNP students explain their career path, anyone else think it sounds exactly like the DO shmeal? "yeah I'm going to school to become a doctor. one way you can do it is an MD, but the other way is by getting a DNP. We focus more on the whole person though." Heard NP students tell this to their friends and no one bats an eye.

With more med schools springing up like rabbits every year and proliferation of DNP degrees (that take as long as an MD), the line is going to blur even more. At the majority of the medical practices I've gone to, the NP's and PA's are strategically blended into the group of physicians, almost as if to dupe the patient into thinking they are getting top notch care every visit.
- When you call the office, they ask you who your doctor is....you respond that you actually saw the NP, Sally (had absolutely no physician interaction at the visit and she takes her own patients)...and they say OK we will forward this message to your doctor.
- I used to call and ask to see a doctor/physician at my old school's student clinic, and 90% of the time arrive only to be seen by an NP.
- the prescription bottle or medical documents has DOCTOR or PROVIDER followed by the full name of the NP.
^ with all of this, I honestly don't know how a layperson would ever know the difference.

I'm obviously biased as a future DO, but the difference between training for MD and DO (2 years preclinical, 2 years clinical, residency) is near indistinguishable compared to the training a DNP goes through. They may say it's equivalent, but everyone here knows that's total BS.

As far as what the layperson perceives, what can we do about that?

 

[touchpause13]

I saw this little gem on my news feed this morning:

DEFRIEND

 

[BestDoctorEver]

In hearing NP/DNP students explain their career path, anyone else think it sounds exactly like the DO shmeal? "yeah I'm going to school to become a doctor. one way you can do it is an MD, but the other way is by getting a DNP. We focus more on the whole person though." Heard NP students tell this to their friends and no one bats an eye.

With more med schools springing up like rabbits every year and proliferation of DNP degrees (that take as long as an MD), the line is going to blur even more. At the majority of the medical practices I've gone to, the NP's and PA's are strategically blended into the group of physicians, almost as if to dupe the patient into thinking they are getting top notch care every visit.
- When you call the office, they ask you who your doctor is....you respond that you actually saw the NP, Sally (had absolutely no physician interaction at the visit and she takes her own patients)...and they say OK we will forward this message to your doctor.
- I used to call and ask to see a doctor/physician at my old school's student clinic, and 90% of the time arrive only to be seen by an NP.
- the prescription bottle or medical documents has DOCTOR or PROVIDER followed by the full name of the NP.
^ with all of this, I honestly don't know how a layperson would ever know the difference.

That is why I would be in favor of states letting MD without residency to have a restricted medical license so we can put these DNPs out of business.