So late in application process.... Should I just wait another year?

[deleted917883]

Hello all! I've been so stressed with two classes and two jobs that I couldn't work on my med school apps much at the beginning of the summer. Am I too late if I submit to AMCAS, AACOMAS, and TMDSAS in August now? I have no particular goals to get into top medical schools, so I just want a good chance of getting into one. I don't have stellar stats : 507;128/127/127/125, 3.6 sGPA, 3.6 cGPA, upward trend, 2 years of research, 90 hours of shadowing, and 300+ hours of clinical & non-clinical volunteering. Is this lateness going to majorly affect my chances with schools? This coming year is already my gap year, so I really don't want to take a second one.

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[Hirro]

Do you have your personal statement written? If you have two jobs and no PS, don't do it. If you have one written and have two jobs, I'd still probably wait. I took a long time to write my primary with a full time job. Secondaries took even longer.

Take your time, improve your application over the next year, and kill it next cycle. Good luck!

 

[Catalystik]

I've been so stressed with two classes and two jobs that I couldn't work on my med school apps much at the beginning of the summer. Am I too late if I submit to AMCAS, AACOMAS, and TMDSAS in August now? I have no particular goals to get into top medical schools, so I just want a good chance of getting into one. I don't have stellar stats : 507;128/127/127/125, 3.6 sGPA, 3.6 cGPA, upward trend, 2 years of research, 90 hours of shadowing, and 300+ hours of clinical & non-clinical volunteering. Is this lateness going to majorly affect my chances with schools? This coming year is already my gap year, so I really don't want to take a second one.

Your stats aren't eye-grabbers, but are decent. Is there anything about your application that would make you stand out, like ex-military, rare demographic, extraordinary accomplishment in some field of endeavor?

You wouldn't be late for an AACOMAS application since their cycle runs longer, and your stats give you a shot at MD schools, except for the lateness of the cycle. Not sure about TMDSAS, but let's ask an expert if it's too late to get an application in and still get reasonable consideration. @wysdoc

If you are from Texas, I'd suggest not applying to AMCAS OOS schools at all, unless you have an excellent answer to my question in the first paragraph.

 

[wysdoc]

Your stats aren't eye-grabbers, but are decent. Is there anything about your application that would make you stand out, like ex-military, rare demographic, extraordinary accomplishment in some field of endeavor?

You wouldn't be late for an AACOMAS application since their cycle runs longer, and your stats give you a shot at MD schools, except for the lateness of the cycle. Not sure about TMDSAS, but let's ask an expert if it's too late to get an application in and still get reasonable consideration. @wysdoc

If you are from Texas, I'd suggest not applying to AMCAS OOS schools at all, unless you have an excellent answer to my question in the first paragraph.

The deadlines for med school applications are really NOT like the deadlines for college apps, in which you can turn in your stuff on the day of the deadline and still get equal consideration.
If you are a procrastinator - and being one myself, I know one when I see one - I think you would have a hard time getting everything done by the end of August, which is the latest I would say anyone should squeak in a TMDSAS application. Do you have letters of recommendation already turned in on your behalf, or not?
Remember that once you hit the submit button, it can take up to a month for TMDSAS to verify your application so that puts your app in the hands of the committee in late September. Absolute date to be complete in TX is Sept 29 for all but Oct 16 for UTRGV and Nov 1 for Baylor. Complete means primaries, secondaries, letters, tests including CASPer, and transcripts. Four TX schools now ask for CASPer.
@Lucca has made some fabulous graphs showing the likelihood of getting a Texas interview depending on the date of application submission.
People submitting in August, Sept, or Oct (what the heck? October is past the deadline but some do, I guess) make up 47% of the TX applicants but get only 25% of the interviews.
If you read all that, the gist is, I think you should wait until next cycle and apply in June as soon as the application opens. You will give yourself the best chance to get in that way. Lots of people take gap years and if asked about it, just say honestly that you were finishing your pre-reqs and working to save $$ for medical school application expenses. Your stats are solid for TX schools.

 

[Lucca]

The deadlines for med school applications are really NOT like the deadlines for college apps, in which you can turn in your stuff on the day of the deadline and still get equal consideration.
If you are a procrastinator - and being one myself, I know one when I see one - I think you would have a hard time getting everything done by the end of August, which is the latest I would say anyone should squeak in a TMDSAS application. Do you have letters of recommendation already turned in on your behalf, or not?
Remember that once you hit the submit button, it can take up to a month for TMDSAS to verify your application so that puts your app in the hands of the committee in late September. Absolute date to be complete in TX is Sept 29 for all but Oct 16 for UTRGV and Nov 1 for Baylor. Complete means primaries, secondaries, letters, tests including CASPer, and transcripts. Four TX schools now ask for CASPer.
@Lucca has made some fabulous graphs showing the likelihood of getting a Texas interview depending on the date of application submission.
People submitting in August, Sept, or Oct (what the heck? October is past the deadline but some do, I guess) make up 47% of the TX applicants but get only 25% of the interviews.
If you read all that, the gist is, I think you should wait until next cycle and apply in June as soon as the application opens. You will give yourself the best chance to get in that way. Lots of people take gap years and if asked about it, just say honestly that you were finishing your pre-reqs and working to save $$ for medical school application expenses. Your stats are solid for TX schools.

Those graphs were actually from TMDSAS themselves, they’re not mine!

To reiterate, I think you’re solid for TX if you apply early next cycle. If you are IS for TX, then don’t bother with OOS schools and just apply everywhere IS (including TCOM).

If you are OOS for TX then don’t bother applying to TX. To be competitive for TX as OOS you need to be a highly desirable candidate and your stats aren’t quite there.

 

[Catalystik]

Those graphs were actually from TMDSAS themselves, they’re not mine!

Can you provide your link here?

 

[Lucca]

Can you provide your link here?

Yes

http://tmdsas.com/Forms/EY17,18-ApplyingEarlyTMDSAS.pdf

You can see that in the previous cycle (EY 2018), >70% of all interviews went to people who submitted in May and June. <10% to ppl who submitted in August. People are applying earlier and earlier every year.

 

[MajesticPanthera]

Quoting gonnif, please read:

"AMCAS 2019 Timeline Summary
-AMCAS May 2, 2018, Primary application opens up. Can send formal requests for transcripts from your schools and letter requests to your letter writers.
-AMCAS May 31, 2018, Completed primary applications with all ECs, PS, and course information can be submitted. You enter the verification queue only when both completed primary application and all transcripts have been received.
-AMCAS does not, repeat, does not verify LOR or MCAT score. Your primary application will be verified regardless of LOR or MCAT score status
-AMCAS June 29, 2018, begins transmission verified applications (though some schools have secondaries sent to contact info upon submission to AMCAS)
-Verification peak is about August 1st and takes 20 days
-Most Primary Apps are transmitted early July thru early September
-Secondaries timelines can vary widely as to when to they are sent out from almost immediately upon submissions to 3 months, though most are in the range 1-3 weeks after transmission.
-Letters via AMCAS are processed/transmitted separately from primary
-Letters can be added after primary has been submitted and transmitted and are mostly not needed until secondary reviews at the earliest.
-There are usually 3 main phases in processing application
----1) Initial Screening/Evaluation: A hybrid of automatic GPA/MCAT screen plus human for "quick review" of application. Used to for general priority and, in some cases, which team/subcommittee gets application. In some cases preset criteria can lead to II.
----2)Full Evaluation: This is where evaluator/reader/team/subcommittee will fully evaluate all sections of primary, secondary, and LOR and generally summarize in broad categories or point system. This essentially becomes your priority for adcom review and II. This function may be split up among several evaluators and may go to a team or subcommittee for II decision. Application are not typically evaluated until complete with Primary, Secondary, MCAT, and LOR
----3) Full adcom: this is where your fully evaluated application is reviewed and voted on by adcom for II on later on for acceptance/WL/rejection
-Application and candidate evaluations timeline varies widely by school may not done in a linear, chronological order. EDP, High achievers, URM, family of alumni, feeder schools, associated UG programs, linked postbaccs, and other factor may push an app forward in the process.
-Most adcoms dont start meeting for review of evaluated applicants until at least mid-August, more likely September, though some reviews may be done earlier for groups mentioned above. Evaluation may start almost immediately at schools.
-Schools receive 5,000-10,000 application but can only evaluate several hundred applications a week. Therefore, it can take 12 weeks or more to be evaluated, reviewed and invited for interview.
-Schools must reduce several thousand applications to several hundred interviews. Therefore 80% of applicants at any individual school must be rejected pre-interview.
-Submitting Primary Application June is Early, July Medium, August Late
-Having Primary verified and transmitted to school by end of August is normal speed
-Having Secondary and all LORs complete to school by Labor Day is early/ontime. By late or end of September is about middle/normal speed, by end of October is about late.
--After that point you will generally start getting impacted by the number of applications submitted, the finite number of interview slots, and seats given by rolling admissions. These aren’t absolute dates nor is it a fixed timeline. It should be used as a guideline

Getting primary in on time does matter because of all the other items that follow it. But applicants often see the beginning and not understanding how it flows from there. Additionally, how each school then opens a file, reviews them on GPA, MCAT, and other factors, and what order they wind up in a queue has less to do with when the primary arrives then when the secondary is completed and received. Since the majority of schools, I dare say, send out pre-transmission, unscreened, or minimal cut off screened secondaries, this is probably a larger factor in where you wind up in the queue for 1) reading an application and 2) decision on interview invite. As I have said previously, and will undoubtedly say dozens of time during this 2019 application cycle (see count above) review of apps is not simply done in a linear chronological order. High achievers, URM, family of alumni, feeder schools, associated UG programs, linked postbaccs, and other factor may push an app forward in the process."

 

[wysdoc]

Those graphs were actually from TMDSAS themselves, they’re not mine!

See, this is why I love @Lucca, helpful and honest

 

[deleted917883]

Do you have your personal statement written? If you have two jobs and no PS, don't do it. If you have one written and have two jobs, I'd still probably wait. I took a long time to write my primary with a full time job. Secondaries took even longer.

Take your time, improve your application over the next year, and kill it next cycle. Good luck!

Thanks for the reply. I do have my PS and recs all ready! I am no longer working at my university, so if I hauled ass now and submitted, do you think I would be able to complete my secondaries before Sept 29?

 

[deleted917883]

Your stats aren't eye-grabbers, but are decent. Is there anything about your application that would make you stand out, like ex-military, rare demographic, extraordinary accomplishment in some field of endeavor?

You wouldn't be late for an AACOMAS application since their cycle runs longer, and your stats give you a shot at MD schools, except for the lateness of the cycle. Not sure about TMDSAS, but let's ask an expert if it's too late to get an application in and still get reasonable consideration. @wysdoc

If you are from Texas, I'd suggest not applying to AMCAS OOS schools at all, unless you have an excellent answer to my question in the first paragraph.

Thanks so much for your reply. I am not ex-military, but I will be in the Air Force reserves if/when I begin medical school. I was only thinking about AMCAS OOS to increase chances of getting in SOMEWHERE, but yes I am TX IS. Would you still advise that I only apply to TX & AACOMAS?

 

[deleted917883]

The deadlines for med school applications are really NOT like the deadlines for college apps, in which you can turn in your stuff on the day of the deadline and still get equal consideration.
If you are a procrastinator - and being one myself, I know one when I see one - I think you would have a hard time getting everything done by the end of August, which is the latest I would say anyone should squeak in a TMDSAS application. Do you have letters of recommendation already turned in on your behalf, or not?
Remember that once you hit the submit button, it can take up to a month for TMDSAS to verify your application so that puts your app in the hands of the committee in late September. Absolute date to be complete in TX is Sept 29 for all but Oct 16 for UTRGV and Nov 1 for Baylor. Complete means primaries, secondaries, letters, tests including CASPer, and transcripts. Four TX schools now ask for CASPer.
@Lucca has made some fabulous graphs showing the likelihood of getting a Texas interview depending on the date of application submission.
People submitting in August, Sept, or Oct (what the heck? October is past the deadline but some do, I guess) make up 47% of the TX applicants but get only 25% of the interviews.
If you read all that, the gist is, I think you should wait until next cycle and apply in June as soon as the application opens. You will give yourself the best chance to get in that way. Lots of people take gap years and if asked about it, just say honestly that you were finishing your pre-reqs and working to save $$ for medical school application expenses. Your stats are solid for TX schools.

Thanks so much for your reply. I do have my letters of rec ready through Interfolio, but not sent in directly by my profs. So if I submitted now, you mean I wouldn't be sent a secondary application until it's in the hands of the committee? That's so scary, but it looks like there's a chance. I wouldn't mind UTRGV either. Besides wasting money, what's the harm in trying to submit to TMDSAS now and then again next year?

 

[Catalystik]

I was only thinking about AMCAS OOS to increase chances of getting in SOMEWHERE, but yes I am TX IS. Would you still advise that I only apply to TX & AACOMAS?

Yes. You won't get much traction at OOS MD schools because they know they can't compete with the attractiveness of Texas' low tuition, unless you're in a caregory where you're a candidate for merit aid.

If you were already in the reserves, I don't know how that would play out. What proportion of your tuition, fees, living expenses might they pay, wherever you chose to attend?

 

[Hirro]

Thanks so much for your reply. I am not ex-military, but I will be in the Air Force reserves if/when I begin medical school. I was only thinking about AMCAS OOS to increase chances of getting in SOMEWHERE, but yes I am TX IS. Would you still advise that I only apply to TX & AACOMAS?

I would highly advise waiting for next cycle if you think you may want to do something outside of primary care. If not, go ahead and apply now. TX schools are basically too late at this point. OOS MD you already know about. DO schools have a later cycle so you're still ok for them.

Just know that you will fare better if you choose to wait. This time last year, I decided to wait to apply this cycle. I believe my 2 II's right now I may not have gotten had I applied back then. I took the advice I was given here and waited.

 

[wysdoc]

Thanks so much for your reply. I do have my letters of rec ready through Interfolio, but not sent in directly by my profs. So if I submitted now, you mean I wouldn't be sent a secondary application until it's in the hands of the committee? That's so scary, but it looks like there's a chance. I wouldn't mind UTRGV either. Besides wasting money, what's the harm in trying to submit to TMDSAS now and then again next year?

If you submitted NOW, your application will take 30 to 40 days to be verified by TMDSAS. That means med schools won't lay their eyes on it until September 8 to 18. Does this seem like a good idea to you? Of the 10 Texas schools, only 4 either have no secondary or don't screen before inviting you to do a secondary. Hence only maximum of 12 days to do all the secondaries.

You are asking the same question again, though the consensus in this thread is to wait. "Because I want to" is not a valid reason. See, I have heard this argument before as a pediatrician and mom of 3 boys LOL. In neither of these roles would I change my answer!

In terms of your final question, "what's the harm in trying to submit to TMDSAS now and then again next year?" I will quote from @LizzyM who is even tougher than me:

LizzyM on reapplicants:

The person who reapplies was either a bad applicant the first time around (poor grades/scores and/or poor written application and/or poor interviews) or was a good applicant who made bad choices (applied to too few schools and/or applied too late and/or applied too high or too low). So, when we see this person the second time around, we might see what was bad the first time (grades and scores, or perhaps, lack of experiences) and how the application has been improved since the previous time. Or we might see someone who looks good on paper and who looks like someone who should have been admitted in an earlier cycle. Then the question becomes, why wasn't this applicant scooped up last season? Is there any hope that whatever hurt them previously has been rectified? If you have to choose between someone who looks good on paper and is a reapplicant and someone with a nearly identical application who is a first time applicant, which do you endorse for interview? There can be a bit of bias against the person who is a reapplicant.

 

[Catalystik]

So, in light of wysdoc's response: @pochimochi for the current cycle, if you can't bear to wait, AACOMAS DO schools are your best bet. And do you really want to go to schools that are so much more expensive when some patience could possibly open up better options for you?

 

[deleted917883]

If you were already in the reserves, I don't know how that would play out. What proportion of your tuition, fees, living expenses might they pay, wherever you chose to attend?

100% of any school's Tuition + a living expense stipend which is why I just need to get in anywhere. I only preferred TX schools more because my family is here.

 

[deleted917883]

@wysdoc @Lucca @Catalystik @MajesticPanthera

Wanted to update that I didn't apply to TMDSAS. Thanks for taking the time to send info and for beating some hard sense into me. You've really saved my ass!

 

[tibwolf]

Yes. You won't get much traction at OOS MD schools because they know they can't compete with the attractiveness of Texas' low tuition, unless you're in a caregory where you're a candidate for merit aid.

If you were already in the reserves, I don't know how that would play out. What proportion of your tuition, fees, living expenses might they pay, wherever you chose to attend?

Hate to derail, but is Texas residency really such a turnoff for other state school applications? Does veteran status (and post 9/11 GI Bill funding, I presume) reopen doors that other states would close on less than stellar applicants?

 

[Catalystik]

You won't get much traction at OOS MD schools because they know they can't compete with the attractiveness of Texas' low tuition, unless you're in a caregory where you're a candidate for merit aid.

1) is Texas residency really such a turnoff for other state school applications?
2) Does veteran status (and post 9/11 GI Bill funding, I presume) reopen doors that other states would close on less than stellar applicants?

1) I wouldn't use the word "turnoff." Rather, OOS MD schools have limited resources for interviewing thousands of applicants and are more likely to make a choice (based on decades of experience) among higher yield applicants. This is "resource protection."

2) Good question. I've seen this happen at other picky state schools for their (non-Texan) OOS veteran applicants. As for Texan military veterans with remaining GI benefits (or not) applying to OOS MD schools, @wysdoc in case she has comments to share on the topic, as I have no relevant observations to share.