MD Soon-to-be international medical graduate in a difficult situation

[badnelly123]

Hello everyone.

If this is the wrong place to post this I sincerely apologize. I realize this is an IMG-related post but I figured/hoped that the larger audience here could be more helpful. If I should move this to the IMG forum please let me know.

I'm a 4th year medical student in a program in Asia. I'm originally from the Caribbean. My medical program is only on its 5th year since inception. The biggest problem with the program is that it is currently not accredited nationally and that will be finalized in 2019-2020, while I graduate now in June 2018. This means that my degree will be useless essentially everywhere until that date (IF it does get accredited/approved/whatever you want to call it). The national accreditation will be needed to obtain any international recognition (like being included in the World Directory of Medical Schools to take the USMLE for instance).

This creates a problem for me because whenever I research to apply for residency positions everywhere (including my home country) I find out that either I'm not allowed to (e.g. I can't sit for the USMLE and enter the MATCH), that they won't take an international degree (e.g. France doesn't accept degrees outside the EU and some other countries like the US), or that applying would take A LOT of paperwork and money that I simply don't have (this only applies to my country and a few others where things are rather bureaucratic and difficult; it'd also take up to a year simply to be allowed to apply, and these are places where I don't want to do my residency or practice in anyways).

On top of it all the education here has just sucked. Our preparation has honestly been crap and it's made me really unhappy because I expected to have some decent teaching at the very least but have not had even that. I know that I just have to make up for that by studying on my own, but a) I shouldn't have to be teaching myself over 2/3 of all the freaking material, and b) a lot of material can't be learned without hands-on practice, and we have essentially none of it here.

I'm feeling really stuck right now because I quite honestly don't know what to do. I wish I could go to med school again at a school that is already recognized/accredited internationally (in the WDMS) so at least applying to places wouldn't be impossible or extremely expensive and time-consuming), but I don't have the money for it. Plus having "wasted" the last 4 years of my life would just suck you know?

I've looked at countries where the education is free (like Germany and the Scandinavian countries), but I'd have to learn the language (completely fair to require), which I don't have the means to do, and I wouldn't have the money to pay for my living expenses while studying either.

Waiting until 2019-2020 for a POSSIBILITY of being able to apply to places is a waste of 2 years, during which I have no clue what I would do.

Right now I'm just feeling so trapped and out of options and extremely discouraged. Can anyone point me to any possibilities which may work in my situation? Scholarships I could apply for, special programs of some sort that would assist me financially even as loans, etc? I don't know what exactly but any piece of information would be truly appreciated.

I know I have a lot of information to make up for studying wise, but it's just so much that it feels daunting and impossible. If you could offer any advice on how to make up for lost ground on that as well I'd truly appreciate it.

Edit: If anyone knows of where I could get a 1 year internship at least to supplement my learning and also to potentially open up other options those would be very welcome as well. Somewhere where I'd get paid enough to live on I guess is the only requirement besides it being a recognized hospital within said country.

I apologize for the long post and thank you in advance for your time. Have a great one!

TL;DR: Currently studying in a non-accredited/recognized medical program so I essentially have no options for residency. Looking for options either for going back to school from scratch or applying for residency in my position or going somewhere for a 1-year internship to possibly expand my options.

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[Osteoth]

Hello everyone.

If this is the wrong place to post this I sincerely apologize. I realize this is an IMG-related post but I figured/hoped that the larger audience here could be more helpful. If I should move this to the IMG forum please let me know.

I'm a 4th year medical student in a program in Asia. I'm originally from the Caribbean. My medical program is only on its 5th year since inception. The biggest problem with the program is that it is currently not accredited nationally and that will be finalized in 2019-2020, while I graduate now in June 2018. This means that my degree will be useless essentially everywhere until that date (IF it does get accredited/approved/whatever you want to call it). The national accreditation will be needed to obtain any international recognition (like being included in the World Directory of Medical Schools to take the USMLE for instance).

This creates a problem for me because whenever I research to apply for residency positions everywhere (including my home country) I find out that either I'm not allowed to (e.g. I can't sit for the USMLE and enter the MATCH), that they won't take an international degree (e.g. France doesn't accept degrees outside the EU and some other countries like the US), or that applying would take A LOT of paperwork and money that I simply don't have (this only applies to my country and a few others where things are rather bureaucratic and difficult; it'd also take up to a year simply to be allowed to apply, and these are places where I don't want to do my residency or practice in anyways).

On top of it all the education here has just sucked. Our preparation has honestly been crap and it's made me really unhappy because I expected to have some decent teaching at the very least but have not had even that. I know that I just have to make up for that by studying on my own, but a) I shouldn't have to be teaching myself over 2/3 of all the freaking material, and b) a lot of material can't be learned without hands-on practice, and we have essentially none of it here.

I'm feeling really stuck right now because I quite honestly don't know what to do. I wish I could go to med school again at a school that is already recognized/accredited internationally (in the WDMS) so at least applying to places wouldn't be impossible or extremely expensive and time-consuming), but I don't have the money for it. Plus having "wasted" the last 4 years of my life would just suck you know?

I've looked at countries where the education is free (like Germany and the Scandinavian countries), but I'd have to learn the language (completely fair to require), which I don't have the means to do, and I wouldn't have the money to pay for my living expenses while studying either.

Waiting until 2019-2020 for a POSSIBILITY of being able to apply to places is a waste of 2 years, during which I have no clue what I would do.

Right now I'm just feeling so trapped and out of options and extremely discouraged. Can anyone point me to any possibilities which may work in my situation? Scholarships I could apply for, special programs of some sort that would assist me financially even as loans, etc? I don't know what exactly but any piece of information would be truly appreciated.

I know I have a lot of information to make up for studying wise, but it's just so much that it feels daunting and impossible. If you could offer any advice on how to make up for lost ground on that as well I'd truly appreciate it.

I apologize for the long post and thank you in advance for your time. Have a great one!

TL;DR: Currently studying in a non-accredited/recognized medical program so I essentially have no options for residency. Looking for options either for going back to school from scratch or applying for residency in my position.

Goes to an unaccredited medical school ... has a bad time.

I don't mean to be overly harsh, but why are you at your school? How did you think going to an unaccredited medical school would be a smart idea? Do you think that the accreditation process is just for ****s and giggles?

 

[badnelly123]

Goes to an unaccredited medical school ... has a bad time.

I don't mean to be overly harsh, but why are you at your school? How did you think going to an unaccredited medical school would be a smart idea? Do you think that the accreditation process is just for ****s and giggles?

I wasn't made aware of all the legalities of the whole situation until my second year there. They had never made any mention of these problems being present. Then when they were brought up the school made it seem like it wasn't a big issue, like it was a done deal, etc. Only once my classmates and I did our own research did we really get into the harsh reality of our situation.
For many of my classmates this doesn't matter because their countries will take care of training them as they need the manpower (the purpose of the program is to ameliorate relations between host country and allied countries and training professionals here is one of the things they do). My country has a medical education system in place and they won't care at all for one more student so they won't go all out to assist me like the home countries of some of my classmates will.

It was only in my second year that I really got to the whole "Crap I'm fu**ed" situation. I was also not allowed to leave because when we signed our scholarship contract one of the stipulations was that we could only leave with permission from the institution that pays for our stuff or otherwise they'd charge us for all the money they invested in us, which I most definitely can't afford to pay back.

 

[Osteoth]

I wasn't made aware of all the legalities of the whole situation until my second year there. They had never made any mention of these problems being present. Then when they were brought up the school made it seem like it wasn't a big issue, like it was a done deal, etc. Only once my classmates and I did our own research did we really get into the harsh reality of our situation.
For many of my classmates this doesn't matter because their countries will take care of training them as they need the manpower (the purpose of the program is to ameliorate relations between host country and allied countries and training professionals here is one of the things they do). My country has a medical education system in place and they won't care at all for one more student so they won't go all out to assist me like the home countries of some of my classmates will.

It was only in my second year that I really got to the whole "Crap I'm fu**ed" situation. I was also not allowed to leave because when we signed our scholarship contract one of the stipulations was that we could only leave with permission from the institution that pays for our stuff or otherwise they'd charge us for all the money they invested in us, which I most definitely can't afford to pay back.

So can you immigrate after graduation to one of the host countries that is more ameliorable to the situation of graduates from your university?

 

[badnelly123]

So can you immigrate after graduation to one of the host countries that is more ameliorable to the situation of graduates from your university?

I don't think so. Each country just has agreements to take back their own (for those countries that need it), or wouldn't accept me because I'm a foreigner. Plus not all these countries have the facilities to train their doctors, so some have to go elsewhere to do internship and residency but their countries will pay for it, or just have very limited resources and wouldn't allocate part of those resources to someone who isn't going to stay there. These countries are, for the most part, small Pacific island nations, so going there would honestly not really help me much.

 

[Osteoth]

I don't think so. Each country just has agreements to take back their own (for those countries that need it), or wouldn't accept me because I'm a foreigner. Plus not all these countries have the facilities to train their doctors, so some have to go elsewhere to do internship and residency but their countries will pay for it, or just have very limited resources and wouldn't allocate part of those resources to someone who isn't going to stay there. These countries are, for the most part, small Pacific island nations, so going there would honestly not really help me much.

So is this place like a scam or can you go to your administration with these questions?

 

[badnelly123]

So is this place like a scam or can you go to your administration with these questions?

While it sucks big time and everything, can't say it's a scam. The program is trying to get accredited, and each country has the responsibility of dealing with their own doctors. I just got the short end of the stick with my country not caring and the accreditation taking as long as it has/is.
The administration's responsibility is to teach us (which in their opinion they're doing well) and to get the program accredited, which they have been trying to do.
It may sound like a lot of complaining but I just really don't like it here. I don't feel well-prepared, I haven't enjoyed my time in this country, the program honestly isn't good (won't disclose what kind of things they've done/are doing in public but it just hasn't been pretty) and to wait 2 years for just a possibility is an annoying and scary thought. It seems like my only options are to move back in with my parents and take out loans to start going to my local university (which feels like a failure to me and would just suck, not to mention that I doubt my parents would want me to considering that this place may indeed get accredited and eventually get recognized internationally), or study my ass off while waiting these next 2 years. Neither sounds particularly appealing to me.

 

[IMG69]

Hello everyone.

If this is the wrong place to post this I sincerely apologize. I realize this is an IMG-related post but I figured/hoped that the larger audience here could be more helpful. If I should move this to the IMG forum please let me know.

I'm a 4th year medical student in a program in Asia. I'm originally from the Caribbean. My medical program is only on its 5th year since inception. The biggest problem with the program is that it is currently not accredited nationally and that will be finalized in 2019-2020, while I graduate now in June 2018. This means that my degree will be useless essentially everywhere until that date (IF it does get accredited/approved/whatever you want to call it). The national accreditation will be needed to obtain any international recognition (like being included in the World Directory of Medical Schools to take the USMLE for instance).

This creates a problem for me because whenever I research to apply for residency positions everywhere (including my home country) I find out that either I'm not allowed to (e.g. I can't sit for the USMLE and enter the MATCH), that they won't take an international degree (e.g. France doesn't accept degrees outside the EU and some other countries like the US), or that applying would take A LOT of paperwork and money that I simply don't have (this only applies to my country and a few others where things are rather bureaucratic and difficult; it'd also take up to a year simply to be allowed to apply, and these are places where I don't want to do my residency or practice in anyways).

On top of it all the education here has just sucked. Our preparation has honestly been crap and it's made me really unhappy because I expected to have some decent teaching at the very least but have not had even that. I know that I just have to make up for that by studying on my own, but a) I shouldn't have to be teaching myself over 2/3 of all the freaking material, and b) a lot of material can't be learned without hands-on practice, and we have essentially none of it here.

I'm feeling really stuck right now because I quite honestly don't know what to do. I wish I could go to med school again at a school that is already recognized/accredited internationally (in the WDMS) so at least applying to places wouldn't be impossible or extremely expensive and time-consuming), but I don't have the money for it. Plus having "wasted" the last 4 years of my life would just suck you know?

I've looked at countries where the education is free (like Germany and the Scandinavian countries), but I'd have to learn the language (completely fair to require), which I don't have the means to do, and I wouldn't have the money to pay for my living expenses while studying either.

Waiting until 2019-2020 for a POSSIBILITY of being able to apply to places is a waste of 2 years, during which I have no clue what I would do.

Right now I'm just feeling so trapped and out of options and extremely discouraged. Can anyone point me to any possibilities which may work in my situation? Scholarships I could apply for, special programs of some sort that would assist me financially even as loans, etc? I don't know what exactly but any piece of information would be truly appreciated.

I know I have a lot of information to make up for studying wise, but it's just so much that it feels daunting and impossible. If you could offer any advice on how to make up for lost ground on that as well I'd truly appreciate it.

I apologize for the long post and thank you in advance for your time. Have a great one!

TL;DR: Currently studying in a non-accredited/recognized medical program so I essentially have no options for residency. Looking for options either for going back to school from scratch or applying for residency in my position.

Sounds like somebody didn't do any research and got sucked into the false security they seem to offer, similar to the Caribbean schools with their 'match rate' stats. I'm essentially in the same boat however the WDMS was the first thing I looked for so i'm covered and I came knowing that I would be learning 100% of a medical degree by myself.

Here is what I would do, go back to the University and work on research whether it be just translating/polishing the english off or actually doing the research, just get your name to papers. Use this 2 years to strengthen your application with research and USMLE study so you present a reasonable application despite graduating 2 years ago (I assume the longer you wait after graduation the further your chances decrease)


I know exactly how you feel I have to 100% learn a medical degree but I enjoy it and look forward to the future clinical subjects. You must've been passionate to take the risk of studying in Asia, why not try re-ignite that passion and take this time to build a good application while you wait; better yet try complete a masters degree in an area relating to where you plan to end up.

That's just my 2cents, good luck

 

[badnelly123]

Sounds like somebody didn't do any research and got sucked into the false security they seem to offer, similar to the Caribbean schools with their 'match rate' stats. I'm essentially in the same boat however the WDMS was the first thing I looked for so i'm covered and I came knowing that I would be learning 100% of a medical degree by myself.

Here is what I would do, go back to the University and work on research whether it be just translating/polishing the english off or actually doing the research, just get your name to papers. Use this 2 years to strengthen your application with research and USMLE study so you present a reasonable application despite graduating 2 years ago (I assume the longer you wait after graduation the further your chances decrease)


I know exactly how you feel I have to 100% learn a medical degree but I enjoy it and look forward to the future clinical subjects. You must've been passionate to take the risk of studying in Asia, why not try re-ignite that passion and take this time to build a good application while you wait; better yet try complete a masters degree in an area relating to where you plan to end up.

That's just my 2cents, good luck

Quite honestly that's what it was. I didn't truly know all that had to be in place to make it viable and etc. I didn't do my proper research and got sucked into something that wasn't nearly as good as it truly is.
Having to teach almost everything myself is something that I feel shouldn't happen, but yeah nothing more to do I guess.
I would stay here to work on research, but I'm not allowed to. Once I graduate I have to leave the country. If I could find a good research opportunity somewhere I'd take it to polish up my resume, but we don't do research back home and finding opportunities elsewhere will be very hard. I am looking into that though.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Unfortunately, I'm going to make your day somewhat worse.

If your school isn't accredited when you graduate, it almost doesn't matter if they get accredited in the future. I believe that your school must be accredited at the time you're attending to take the USMLE, and must be accredited for all 4 years of your education. From the ECFMG website:

Medical School Graduates
To be eligible for Step 1, Step 2 CK, and Step 2 CS, a medical school graduate must have graduated from a medical school located outside the United States and Canada that is listed in the World Directory as meeting eligibility requirements for its students and graduates to apply to ECFMG for ECFMG Certification and examination. The applicant’s graduation year must be included in the “Graduation Years” listed in the ECFMG note on the Sponsor Notes tab of the medical school’s World Directory listing. Additionally, he/she must have been awarded credit for at least four credit years (academic years for which credit has been given toward completion of the medical curriculum) by a medical school that is listed in the World Directory as meeting ECFMG eligibility requirements.

The 4 year detail is somewhat unclear, but it is very clear that if the school isn't certified the day you graduate, you won't be able to take the USMLE (unless they back date the certification process, which seems unlikely).

Many states in the US, especially those with large IMG residency programs (NY, for example), have a similar rule for licensing.

 

[badnelly123]

Unfortunately, I'm going to make your day somewhat worse.

If your school isn't accredited when you graduate, it almost doesn't matter if they get accredited in the future. I believe that your school must be accredited at the time you're attending to take the USMLE, and must be accredited for all 4 years of your education. From the ECFMG website:



The 4 year detail is somewhat unclear, but it is very clear that if the school isn't certified the day you graduate, you won't be able to take the USMLE (unless they back date the certification process, which seems unlikely).

Many states in the US, especially those with large IMG residency programs (NY, for example), have a similar rule for licensing.

Thank you for your input. Does make my day worse haha. Sigh.
From what I understand we have a provisional accreditation and my school are in talks with the WDMS to get included right now, but I have zero idea about how that's going or how that would work and what not. I've been told contradicting things by different people (that our provisional accreditation would hold for the WDMS and that it wouldn't wouldn't since it's not a full accreditation), which is one of the reasons why I'm looking at my options. Doesn't hurt to be informed of possibilities know what I mean? I'm aware that I have to wait until things play out the rest of the year but I still have to know all my options and see how I would proceed depending on the scenario.

This post/thread is honestly me just trying to see what I can do depending on the worst outcome possible, which is what I'm in right now with no accreditation, not included in the WDMS and requiring at least a year anywhere I go to just be told if I can apply to things or not. My family isn't well off, I'm honestly not a very good job candidate for anything above minimum wage since I have essentially no job experience and only a BA in biology, and for all the time I have to wait I also have to do something to support myself.

I realize that my choices put me here, even if they weren't all terrible choices per se (like studying biology in college), but I'm still scared and feeling really discouraged and trapped and hoping for some guidance or help.