Starting Salaries

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scienceguy13

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Okay, so I'm just curious... To anyone out there who is already in Pharmacy school and almost finished, have you heard anything about the actual starting salaries in the field? Perhaps some of you have friends that recently graduated, and you've heard from them. Any information will do: independent, hospital, chain-pharmacy, and in any location. I've just been thinking a lot recently if a career in pharmacy is really worth the expense. I mean if I have to sink in well over $100,000 for schooling, I feel like I'm going to need a pretty good starting salary to pay that off. Also with all the talk of saturation in the field, I was wondering if it has driven down salaries.
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I'm in Texas, first year, but I know someone who graduated from the same school I'm at and she just graduated May 2011 with $114,000 annual salary. She works at a hospital.
 
scienceguy13 said:
Okay, so I'm just curious... To anyone out there who is already in Pharmacy school and almost finished, have you heard anything about the actual starting salaries in the field? Perhaps some of you have friends that recently graduated, and you've heard from them. Any information will do: independent, hospital, chain-pharmacy, and in any location. I've just been thinking a lot recently if a career in pharmacy is really worth the expense. I mean if I have to sink in well over $100,000 for schooling, I feel like I'm going to need a pretty good starting salary to pay that off. Also with all the talk of saturation in the field, I was wondering if it has driven down salaries.
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Wow ... I don't know why I'm still surprised by seeing people post this so ... bluntly.

One important thing to note is that saturation is a relatively recent, within the past few years. Therefore, when you graduate the program, salaries may be much lower. Would you still pursue the field is salaries are $70K-80K? Just something to think about.
 
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Well, that's good to hear a high salary from the first post. Also, if salaries were around 70-80K then I guess financially it would still be worth it. I hate to put it so straightforward, but when salaries dip below 70K the job just isn't worth it to me. For the amount of loans I'd have take out, the salary after taxes and loan payments would be a little higher than if I was a high school teacher (for the next 10 years at least). Again, I do hate to put it that way, but it's just numbers.
 
You'd definitely be making a lot less as a high school teacher. And its not like loans will take you your entire life to pay off (hopefully), so you will still get 30+ years in the field without having part of your salary automatically nullified from loan payments, where as with teaching, you'd just be making crap for 40+ years.
 
klj5269 said:
You'd definitely be making a lot less as a high school teacher. And its not like loans will take you your entire life to pay off (hopefully), so you will still get 30+ years in the field without having part of your salary automatically nullified from loan payments, where as with teaching, you'd just be making crap for 40+ years.
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depending what type of teacher you are:

friends mother makes 80k as a teacher in elementary school. she has all summer off, and other holidays/vacations in the year. she earns a pension, has GREAT benefits.

dont short change teaching, for those that do it, it is very good
 
aznhomieboi1689 said:
I'm in Texas, first year, but I know someone who graduated from the same school I'm at and she just graduated May 2011 with $114,000 annual salary. She works at a hospital.
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that is a lot higher than what they pay in the north east.

hospitals here pay around 90k
 
PharmaTope said:
depending what type of teacher you are:

friends mother makes 80k as a teacher in elementary school. she has all summer off, and other holidays/vacations in the year. she earns a pension, has GREAT benefits.

dont short change teaching, for those that do it, it is very good
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You include all of these GREAT examples without any actual information about how they acquired the position and how abnormal salaries like that are. Interesting because you use the same tactic when saying how HORRIBLE pharmacy has become. It makes one give even less stock to the claims that you are making frequently on the board.

In the state of North Carolina, what you posted is HIGHLY uncommon and next to impossible for new grads. The Wake county teaching base for high school SCIENCE teachers is less than 40K for teachers who have a Master's in Education. (I think that it is 33-36K and some schools provide a supplement to the base.) Note: Wake County is one of the, if not the, highest paying county in North Carolina.
 
chemguy79 said:
You include all of these GREAT examples without any actual information about how they acquired the position and how abnormal salaries like that are. Interesting because you use the same tactic when saying how HORRIBLE pharmacy has become. It makes one give even less stock to the claims that you are making frequently on the board.

In the state of North Carolina, what you posted is HIGHLY uncommon and next to impossible for new grads. The Wake county teaching base for high school SCIENCE teachers is less than 40K for teachers who have a Master's in Education. (I think that it is 33-36K and some schools provide a supplement to the base.) Note: Wake County is one of the, if not the, highest paying county in North Carolina.
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please post me NC state salary information from reputable sources.... herp derp
 
PharmaTope said:
please post me NC state salary information from reputable sources.... herp derp
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Where are your sources for teachers earning 80K a year or radiology technicians making similar incomes? herp derp, full of crap, herp derp.

My initial sources were that I have THREE colleagues who left my PhD program to earn their MS in Education from NC State.

Furthermore, it's not THAT difficult to find the base salaries for a respective county.

http://www.wcpss.net/salary-schedules/teachers/

TAH DAH! Note: These salaries are for those with National Board Certification, i.e., a teaching license. Non-licensed teachers make 5K less, as shown from the same link.

$38K with a Bachelor's and THREE years of experience.
$42K with a Master's and THREE years of experience.

New grads receive less than that, of course. =)

A teacher in Wake County, according to the salaries listed, will NEVER make the $80K that you were bragging out.

I'm just amazed that pharmacists who constantly rain on the pharmaceutical profession have absolutely NO idea what goes on in other professions that are allegedly "better."
 
And you have to deal with 15 yr boys who don't want to learn. Teaching High School is very hard. Your too tough, your too lenient, your tests are too hard and (same class) too easy. And ya get paid 45K. Blah.
 
PharmaTope said:
depending what type of teacher you are:
friends mother makes 80k as a teacher in elementary school.
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The name of this thread is "Starting Salaries". Teachers just graduating and trying to find a job will rarely start above $40k/yr. Obviously your friend's mother has been teaching a while because $80k/yr is very nice for a glorified baby sitter :p I am doing my undergrad at a highly-ranked teaching school and most of my friends are teaching majors or already graduated and trying to enter the field. Pharmacy, even with the recent saturation in some areas, seems like a cake walk to me compared to being a new teacher.
 
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Why would anyone teach for less than 75k per year? That's crazy.

I kid, I kid. My mom is a teacher. She has never even heard of anyone making 80k per year anecdotal-y, let alone BLS data. Outlier hardly even covers it.
 
Teachers do get paid in the 80k range in decent districts if they've worked long enough. The key is that it takes them 20 years to get to that pay range.

http://www.pkwy.k12.mo.us/hr/salaries.cfm

That is a link to the salary steps at my old school district.

You just have to take some night courses your first few years and get a masters. But it's well worth the 2 fold increase in salary.
 
UNMorBUST said:
The salary you quoted is definatly an outlier.
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QFT. This is a ridiculous epidemic on this board.

I am finding the counter argument very frustrating. The way some posters are phrasing is highly insulting - if some people can earn that, anybody can, right? And you're inadequate or substandard if you can't. Yeah, I just need to back off these threads.

Standard TL;DR: It's fun to make up numbers!
 
PharmyC said:
Teachers do get paid in the 80k range in decent districts if they've worked long enough. The key is that it takes them 20 years to get to that pay range.

http://www.pkwy.k12.mo.us/hr/salaries.cfm

That is a link to the salary steps at my old school district.

You just have to take some night courses your first few years and get a masters. But it's well worth the 2 fold increase in salary.
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Night classes AND 20 years of experience. Emphasis should be on the former rather than the latter, imo.
 
In Alabama there have been no raises for the last 5 yr, teachers took a 10% paycut last year, and they are layoffs/attritions in the thousands for the last 2 years with no/very little new hires and 40 kid classrooms. 80K is a huge outlier.
 
PharmyC said:
Teachers do get paid in the 80k range in decent districts if they've worked long enough. The key is that it takes them 20 years to get to that pay range.

http://www.pkwy.k12.mo.us/hr/salaries.cfm

That is a link to the salary steps at my old school district.

You just have to take some night courses your first few years and get a masters. But it's well worth the 2 fold increase in salary.
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Heck. With that salary system, maybe I should move back to STL.

Then again, I really dont want to deal with all the idiots on 270...
 
hye345 said:
Give it a decade or two, it might happen
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This is a fallacious point of view. Everything is cyclical. While pharmacy may be saturated now, it has been saturated before, and will be saturated again. By extension, pharmacy has been in demand before, and will be in demand again.
 
ValeUC said:
This is based on what? I see that you're Pre-pharm so I'm guessing your extensive experience?
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No, its just simple economics. In the last 20 years or so, roughly 30 new pharmacy programs have opened. This is roughly a 25% increase. Is it possible that when supply exceeds demand, salaries might drop, since all the new students have loans to repay, and will gradually accept less and less? Notice I'm not saying that they will definitely drop, just that they might, simply based on the laws of supply and demand.
 
hye345 said:
No, its just simple economics. In the last 20 years or so, roughly 30 new pharmacy programs have opened. This is roughly a 25% increase. Is it possible that when supply exceeds demand, salaries might drop, since all the new students have loans to repay, and will gradually accept less and less? Notice I'm not saying that they will definitely drop, just that they might, simply based on the laws of supply and demand.
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Despite the increase in supply of qualified individuals, the role of the pharmacist is ever expanding. MTM is becoming more viable, immunizing and other activities. Our role is becoming more important, not less. This can only help solidify our salaries if not increase.
 
chemnerd99 said:
In Alabama there have been no raises for the last 5 yr, teachers took a 10% paycut last year, and they are layoffs/attritions in the thousands for the last 2 years with no/very little new hires and 40 kid classrooms. 80K is a huge outlier.
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Sounds like the district here. No raises for 3 years and they are taking more out of their checks this year for benefits so they make less. So sad.:(
 
ValeUC said:
Salaries won't drop to 70-80k.
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QFT. +111

I don't even see why this is a discussion time and time again. If you're afraid of saturation, challenges, poor ~*~future~*~ pay, poor job markets, do not go into Pharmacy. In fact, don't try to get a job in any field that earns anything over 45k. I've never seen people so worried in my life, especially future professionals....Go get a damn zen garden, do some yoga, buy a fresh plant and smell it -or- drop out and work at whole foods, save this forum and it's posters lots of time.
 
Where is PharmaTope to spew more fallacies or to reply to any of the comments that have been posted? :confused: Eagerly anticipating your "comments" ...
 
I don't even see why this is a discussion time and time again. If you're afraid of saturation, challenges, poor ~*~future~*~ pay, poor job markets, do not go into Pharmacy. In fact, don't try to get a job in any field that earns anything over 45k. I've never seen people so worried in my life, especially future professionals....Go get a damn zen garden, do some yoga, buy a fresh plant and smell it -or- drop out and work at whole foods, save this forum and it's posters lots of time.
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I think I have every right to worry about the future job market of a field when I have to invest over $100,000 in schooling. It would be pretty foolish to not consider the future job market actually, not very smart to invest tons of money and not be able to get a job or pay loans. Part of the reason this forum exists is to answer questions people have about the profession. I was just wondering how the field is looking to people getting ready to graduate, and how the salaries are...
 
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Alright, since you want legit advice. I say go talk to recent graduates in your area. Salary and saturation is so dependant on area that what one person says in area A will not match up with someone from area B. Go ask around in your area, also while you are there go shadow or volunteer and get a LOR.
 
$110-130K is what I'm seeing for residency-trained clinical pharmacists. I imagine starting salaries for retail pharmacists are similar. I make $61/hr at my float retail job.
 
I think I have every right to worry about the future job market of a field when I have to invest over $100,000 in schooling. It would be pretty foolish to not consider the future job market actually, not very smart to invest tons of money and not be able to get a job or pay loans. Part of the reason this forum exists is to answer questions people have about the profession. I was just wondering how the field is looking to people getting ready to graduate, and how the salaries are...
Click to expand...

The question that I have for you is how much debt is reasonable? You are ... an interesting chap if you think that investing in education for a career isn't worth it if you don't make a certain income. That sense of entitlement is just odd to me and frankly, you're going to be in for a rude awakening when you start your career. Have you ever had a job?

FACT: Most students who attend college leave with student loan debt. It is a fact of life.

Furthermore, you have 3 to 4 years of school in your future. What will you do if the job market completely collapses after you are starting your 3rd year of school? Will you quit your program because you won't make at least 100K? Of course not. Therefore, go into the career if you want to pursue it, not because of a salary guarantee that NO ONE can promise you in 3-4 years.
 
chemguy79 said:
The question that I have for you is how much debt is reasonable? You are ... an interesting chap if you think that investing in education for a career isn't worth it if you don't make a certain income. That sense of entitlement is just odd to me and frankly, you're going to be in for a rude awakening when you start your career. Have you ever had a job?

FACT: Most students who attend college leave with student loan debt. It is a fact of life.

Furthermore, you have 3 to 4 years of school in your future. What will you do if the job market completely collapses after you are starting your 3rd year of school? Will you quit your program because you won't make at least 100K? Of course not. Therefore, go into the career if you want to pursue it, not because of a salary guarantee that NO ONE can promise you in 3-4 years.
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+127 :thumbup:
 
chemguy79 said:
The question that I have for you is how much debt is reasonable? You are ... an interesting chap if you think that investing in education for a career isn't worth it if you don't make a certain income. That sense of entitlement is just odd to me and frankly, you're going to be in for a rude awakening when you start your career. Have you ever had a job?

FACT: Most students who attend college leave with student loan debt. It is a fact of life.

Furthermore, you have 3 to 4 years of school in your future. What will you do if the job market completely collapses after you are starting your 3rd year of school? Will you quit your program because you won't make at least 100K? Of course not. Therefore, go into the career if you want to pursue it, not because of a salary guarantee that NO ONE can promise you in 3-4 years.
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Well, if pharmacy school were to cost $1,000,000, then that debt is probably unreasonable for today’s salaries. It’s just simple dollars and cents. If I have to invest $130,000 in schooling and get a job paying above $70,000 or so, then it’s worth it financially. However, if I still spend $130,000 in schooling and then get a job paying around $55,000, then it isn’t worth it. I could make the same or more money (for the first 10 years at least) in other careers that I would enjoy just as much. It not a sense of entitlement to expect a certain salary for your potential career, it’s just being smart about investing large amounts of money. As I said before, it would pretty foolish to invest that much money with no idea of your future ability to pay it back.

And yes, I have had a job... I’ve been working for as long as I can remember because I grew up with very little. I work multiple part-time jobs while I’m school now to support myself as well. So yeah, I’m not completely oblivious to how the real world works. But I suppose you might be if you think that investing in an education is always worth it, without any thought to your future salary and ability to repay those loans.

At any rate, all I was interested in were the salaries people are actually getting when they’re out of school. I figure in 4-5 years, it probably won’t change a huge amount from what people report now. It may go down due to saturation I suppose, but I was really just trying to get an idea if the investment makes sense financially. And I appreciate the people who posted some salary information. It was very helpful to see some real numbers, so thank you.
 
scienceguy13 said:
At any rate, all I was interested in were the salaries people are actually getting when they're out of school. I figure in 4-5 years, it probably won't change a huge amount from what people report now. It may go down due to saturation I suppose, but I was really just trying to get an idea if the investment makes sense financially. And I appreciate the people who posted some salary information. It was very helpful to see some real numbers, so thank you.
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If you want really numbers, may I suggest BLS? I would trust those numbers more than anything I found in a forum.
 
scienceguy13 said:
I think I have every right to worry about the future job market of a field when I have to invest over $100,000 in schooling. It would be pretty foolish to not consider the future job market actually, not very smart to invest tons of money and not be able to get a job or pay loans. Part of the reason this forum exists is to answer questions people have about the profession. I was just wondering how the field is looking to people getting ready to graduate, and how the salaries are...
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http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes291051.htm

May 2010
Lowest 10% earning 82k
Highest 10% earning 132k

You can register for salary.com or payscale.com and multiple sites like these to narrow down the data (based on years experience, etc)

Data I found on PayScale.com

Eu2SQ.png




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1. McAllen, Texas
Median Salary: $133,374
COL relative to Raleigh: -13%
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5. Temple, Texas

Cities Hardest on Your Wallet
1. New York, New York
Median Salary: $106,913
COL relative to Raleigh: 115%
2. Boulder, Colorado
3. Honolulu, Hawaii
4. San Francisco, California
5. San Jose, California
 
chemguy79 said:
The question that I have for you is how much debt is reasonable? You are ... an interesting chap if you think that investing in education for a career isn't worth it if you don't make a certain income. That sense of entitlement is just odd to me and frankly, you're going to be in for a rude awakening when you start your career. Have you ever had a job?

FACT: Most students who attend college leave with student loan debt. It is a fact of life.

Furthermore, you have 3 to 4 years of school in your future. What will you do if the job market completely collapses after you are starting your 3rd year of school? Will you quit your program because you won't make at least 100K? Of course not. Therefore, go into the career if you want to pursue it, not because of a salary guarantee that NO ONE can promise you in 3-4 years.
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Hmmm. I don't get your point. There is a big difference between a "sense of entitlement" and doing what only makes financial sense. I went back to school, taking on the debt I did knowing what a pharmacist makes. If I went back for my MSW, knowing what a social worker makes, I certainly would hope to take on significantly less debt than I did for a $100K job.

It's not being spoiled, it's being sensible. If you take on 50K to make 35K, you haven't made a very good financial decision. It's no different than any other huge purchase; you wouldn't buy a $400K house on a $100K salary no matter how good of an "investment" the $400K house was.

Why do you think there are virtually no full rides to professional school vs PhD or MPH programs? It's not because the cost of education for them is less.
 
spacecowgirl said:
Hmmm. I don't get your point. There is a big difference between a "sense of entitlement" and doing what only makes financial sense. I went back to school, taking on the debt I did knowing what a pharmacist makes. If I went back for my MSW, knowing what a social worker makes, I certainly would hope to take on significantly less debt than I did for a $100K job.

It's not being spoiled, it's being sensible. If you take on 50K to make 35K, you haven't made a very good financial decision. It's no different than any other huge purchase; you wouldn't buy a $400K house on a $100K salary no matter how good of an "investment" the $400K house was.

Why do you think there are virtually no full rides to professional school vs PhD or MPH programs? It's not because the cost of education for them is less.
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There is a difference between understanding what a pharmacist can make relative to their upcoming student loan debt versus practically requiring that one will make a certain salary in order to pursue a career before you even start the program.

I mean if I have to sink in well over $100,000 for schooling, I feel like I'm going to need a pretty good starting salary to pay that off.
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Yes, you will need a "pretty good starting salary". However, my point is that if you state that you need to make (i.e., entitled) 100K for a career in order to find the career feasible ... It shows a bit of ignorance and that person feels entitled to earning that salary. I believe that because one can reasonably pay off 100K of student loans when making 70K without living in a cardboard box.

Furthermore, Is it truly necessary to make 100K to pay off 100K of student loan debt? Not at all. Hell, is it necessary to make 100K to pay off 200K of student loan debt? Not necessarily. However, it wouldn't be nearly as easy to manage, but completely feasible.

I'm all for making intelligent financial decisions, but let's be honest here ... Pharmacy students are in no position to request that they make a certain salary upon graduation. There are no guarantees in the work force and banking your career on something like a salary request that can easily change while you're enrolled in the program is fiscally ignorant.
 
I work at a large hospital and a small hospital and I have seen starting salaries at $115k typically. Residencies are becoming mandatory for applicants for hospital jobs.

There are state jobs for pharmacist starting at $75k but you need to take inconsideration the benefits and hours. There are hourly jobs versus salary too. It really depends what you want to do. I don't know much about retail at all. That is an area I need to spend some time in learning even though I prefer hospital.
 
chemguy79 said:
There is a difference between understanding what a pharmacist can make relative to their upcoming student loan debt versus practically requiring that one will make a certain salary in order to pursue a career before you even start the program.

Yes, you will need a "pretty good starting salary". However, my point is that if you state that you need to make (i.e., entitled) 100K for a career in order to find the career feasible ... It shows a bit of ignorance and that person feels entitled to earning that salary. I believe that because one can reasonably pay off 100K of student loans when making 70K without living in a cardboard box.

Furthermore, Is it truly necessary to make 100K to pay off 100K of student loan debt? Not at all. Hell, is it necessary to make 100K to pay off 200K of student loan debt? Not necessarily. However, it wouldn't be nearly as easy to manage, but completely feasible.

I'm all for making intelligent financial decisions, but let's be honest here ... Pharmacy students are in no position to request that they make a certain salary upon graduation. There are no guarantees in the work force and banking your career on something like a salary request that can easily change while you're enrolled in the program is fiscally ignorant.
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We'll have to agree to disagree. :)

I had a bunch more written but figured, who cares?
 
chemguy79 said:
Wow ... I don't know why I'm still surprised by seeing people post this so ... bluntly.

One important thing to note is that saturation is a relatively recent, within the past few years. Therefore, when you graduate the program, salaries may be much lower. Would you still pursue the field is salaries are $70K-80K? Just something to think about.
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Saturation, yes very much a problem. Perhaps the answer is to limit the class sizes of Pharm School, or better yet, close down some schools completely (preferably the lower tier schools).
 
kfi4463 said:
Saturation, yes very much a problem. Perhaps the answer is to limit the class sizes of Pharm School, or better yet, close down some schools completely (preferably the lower tier schools).
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this will never happen.
 
spacecowgirl said:
Hmmm. I don't get your point. There is a big difference between a "sense of entitlement" and doing what only makes financial sense. I went back to school, taking on the debt I did knowing what a pharmacist makes. If I went back for my MSW, knowing what a social worker makes, I certainly would hope to take on significantly less debt than I did for a $100K job.

It's not being spoiled, it's being sensible. If you take on 50K to make 35K, you haven't made a very good financial decision. It's no different than any other huge purchase; you wouldn't buy a $400K house on a $100K salary no matter how good of an "investment" the $400K house was.

Why do you think there are virtually no full rides to professional school vs PhD or MPH programs? It's not because the cost of education for them is less.
Click to expand...

I agree 120%. It's about having some common sense. I have been told several times that it would be down right stupid to take out more money than your first year of pay. So if your starting salary is 120K than your student loans better be LESS than 120K. If it's over that you made a bad decision. There will be people on here trying to justify their decision on taking out 150K or 200K in loans...well, there is no justification unless you are going to make 200K+ the first year it will not be wise to take on that kind of debt. It's that simple. Yes there are some expensive for profit schools out for your money that will tell you it's smart to take out 200K in loans...but you gotta look at your sources here. :laugh:

The question isn't whether or not you can afford to pay off 200K debt with a 100K salary...the question is is it WORTH IT????? That's the question here! Can I choose to pay 120K for a beat up 1999 Honda Civic? Yes. Can I choose to pay someone $100 for a new manicure? Yes. Can I choose to pay 500K for a house that's valued at 80K? Yes. Can I also choose to flush $1000 down the toliet? Sure! But is it WORTH IT? I think you know the answer to this question folks.

If I had to take out more than 100K in student loans I'll just go find something else to do. There are millions of easier ways to make money. Pre-pharms are just to naive to figure that out. :laugh:
 
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I also agree that it's sensible to ask how much the salary is to determine if the debt is worth it. Jeez, can everyone stop ignoring the elephant in the room - which is people go into the healthcare profession to make MONEY - not only pharmacists but doctors and nurses as well! Sure, they like the job, it's satisfying, but they also like the money. I wish it wasn't so taboo to admit that.

Also, starting salaries for teachers in some counties of CA is 45-50K. For a first year teacher. If you have a master's, it more. One of my friends worked as a teacher and by the 5th year she made 65k. Within 10 years I think you can go up to 80K....I think the cap is 90k. It's not bad for having a cheap or even free degree if you go to a Cal State, having summers off, excellent benefits, all that. So, if pharmacist salaries were to ever drop to 80k in CA (I just saw a posting that USC Hospital was hiring a pharmacist with RESIDENCY for only $45/hr)....then that can be comparable to being a teacher. Atleast here! Especially since pharmacy school debt isn't $100k like the poster, but $200k in CA!

Edited to say - I mentioned a lot of ifs, but the bottom line is don't try to dime up your profession and compare it to others and see if you would make $100 more in the longrun either here or there. As long as it's not a crazy investment (like paying $200k for a teaching degree) and you are sure you want to do it and would be able to pay off your loans, then do it, if that's the job you want to have.
 
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