Stats Thread-So what would be the best place to apply?

[OtakuVet]

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Alright, I read through the wonderful thread of where should I apply to but it really didnt help me in the fact on what places would you reccomend according to stats. Now if anyone wants to join in feel free. But I really could use the help because even though I have been researching vet schools for two years there are still many programs I havent heard of. So here are my stats:
Im a full time student.
Ive worked mainly a full time job most of my undergraduate career.
My gpa: 2.99 without a couple of A's added from Community College classes, So I expect that my overall to be around 3.02 or something or another.
I have thousands of Veterinary experience both volunteering and in practice.
I'm working at a small animal exotic practice right now.
I probably have less than 30 hours experience with large animals.
Im currently working on a research project under a professor.
And Im hoping to start doing some graduate work even before I graduate undergrad.
I expect to take the gpa this summer. I have and will be taking the Kaplan Course again and I hope to make between a 1200-1300. My last practice was an 1160, so I dont believe its completely undetainable.
Ive decided to apply to the following schools:
Ross, Tuskegee, Vtech, CSU, and St. George's.
Quite frankly, I dont really want to apply to ross and Tuskegee isnt looking too great either.
So any other suggestions? in the US and abroad?
Thanks,
Aya

 

[sumstorm]

Unfortunatly, stats don't always say that much.... your GPA, is that due to the work or is it a few bad grades or a bad semester? In other words, is it something that can be explained easily? I know it seems like working full time would be explanation enough, but it doesn't really seem to be (I worked FT as well throughout undergrad.)

There are fewer than 35 AVMA accredited schools, do you know which ones you have ruled out completly? I am not sure how much most of us know about other schools, other than the caribbean schools.

Some schools have grade exception programs, but some of that will depend on the above answer. NCSU has a grade exception, but as they put it, there must be an excellent reason and the candidate must be an otherwise strong candidate.

 

[eventualeventer]

What is your in-state school? VA-MD and CSU are both VERY competitive for OOS applicants and have a reputation for picking applicants with high GPA's.

Western has a lower average GPA for matriculants (3.25) and has a reputation for looking at the whole picture. They also do not take residency into account.

Why not Tuskegee?

ETA: sumstorm's post reminds me, there is some school (I think it might be Mississippi?) which allows you to start over. As I understand it, you can ask them to ignore all grades before a certain date, but that means that if you took any prereqs before that date you must retake them.

 

[TSUJC]

You might want to look at the requirements for each individual school. Some schools have a minimum overall and science GPA requirement that must be met in order to have your application considered. Also, some schools except trig. while others school want calculus. I think the best thing for you to do is make a list and rule out which schools you fulfill the requirements for.

 

[david594]

How badly do you want to go to vet school? Would you seriously considering going to Ross or St. George if you were only accepted to one of those schools? Its similar money to OOS at many US vet schools, but its much farther from home, and island lifestyle is very different than what one might be used to in the US. If you are paying with loans, you will need to find private loans to fund your education there.

On the other hand pretty much everyone who applies to Ross is accepted.

 

[rouxeny]

.

 

[sumstorm]

If I were you I'd consider waiting a year to apply and re-taking some classes to boost the ol' GPA to at least a 3.5, not to say that anything below completely rules out acceptance into veterinary school.

Unfortunatly, that is often easier said than done. My 5 classes of 4.0 only boosted my GPA from a 3.39 to a 3.41. There are calculators online that can show you what you need to get in how many classes to improve a gpa.

 

[incendium04]

I definitely would consider more schools considering your GPA. Include those that have average GPA's that are closer to yours. When I was comparing schools, I made a spreadsheet and just listed the # of out of state students accepted (or instate if I counted as that) for each and every school... along with average GPA, average GRE, prereqs, everything. Then I narrowed it down to schools accepting a lot of OOS or low GPA, etc. Since I doubted I would get in to any schools, I applied to 12 to make sure I didn't regret applying to one school or the other.

 

[OtakuVet]

alright, to be frank, there are a few Cs in the past two semesters. But alot of my grades can be explained through certain circumstances, such as death in family, work, mental instability. the works. I probably can increase my gpa. More or less, the grades can be explained. As for completely saying to not to apply because of just my gpa, I dont think that is such a great idea either.
I really am having a hard time ruling out schools just because of stats, I know I cant get into UCDavis, Purdue,Auburn and Penn if that is what you mean.

As for David594, what you say may be true but I think it is sort of condescending, so try to reword your statements next time. I have an interesting story to tell in my explanation if that helps none. Also, St. George's does have a program that you go there and experience it before you actually apply (in it currently). I think it helps going to a place before getting an acceptance. (also, you dont know till you try.)

I believe that research experience, a good GRE Score, and Veterinary experience should help some correct? I mean you guys seem to be completely ruling out chances all because of the gpa. I like the exceptional circumstances position, but what schools offer that if any of you know?
Also my in-state schools is VA-MD. Sorry about that. Only reason why Im applying is because it is my instate school. I know that its notorious for the gpa and gre requirements.
Only reason why I dont want to wait a year is because Im looking into going into research and that is going to take awhile anyway, for what I want it could take up to 7-10 years.
I dont want to believe I am completely sunk. I think that is sorta premature.

 

[david594]

As for David594, what you say may be true but I think it is sort of condescending, so try to reword your statements next time. I have an interesting story to tell in my explanation if that helps none. Also, St. George's does have a program that you go there and experience it before you actually apply (in it currently). I think it helps going to a place before getting an acceptance. (also, you dont know till you try.)

Condescending? 😕

If you look back to posts from last fall you will see some of the people who applied to Ross were put into a bit of an awkward situation. Non-accredited schools do not have play by the same rules as accredited schools. So some students had acceptances from Ross early in the fall, and then the school was looking for a $500 deposit from them way before they ever heard from US schools. All accredited schools have a specific decision deadline so you arn't stuck committing to one without hearing from all your other options.

My comments have nothing to do with you, or your story. I am simply pointing out some of the considerations when thinking about non-accredited schools.

My point was simply: Dont apply to schools your not willing to go to.

Ive decided to apply to the following schools:
Ross, Tuskegee, Vtech, CSU, and St. George's.
Quite frankly, I dont really want to apply to ross and Tuskegee isnt looking too great either.

Your first post says you have decided to apply to 2 schools you don't actually want to apply to??
Now what happens if you are only accepted at one of those?

 

[alliecat44]

Apply to K-State! I had the same GPA. 🙂

 

[sumstorm]

alright, to be frank, there are a few Cs in the past two semesters. But alot of my grades can be explained through certain circumstances, such as death in family, work, mental instability. the works. I probably can increase my gpa. More or less, the grades can be explained. As for completely saying to not to apply because of just my gpa, I dont think that is such a great idea either.
I really am having a hard time ruling out schools just because of stats, I know I cant get into UCDavis, Purdue,Auburn and Penn if that is what you mean.

I believe that research experience, a good GRE Score, and Veterinary experience should help some correct? I mean you guys seem to be completely ruling out chances all because of the gpa. I like the exceptional circumstances position, but what schools offer that if any of you know?

In all honesty, I believe that most of us would be just as happy if you applied to every school in the world; you asked for advice, and are unhappy with what you are hearing. Since I also had more than a few C's (more than I can count on one hand, which qualifies as more than a few in my mind) I understand how C's pull a GPA down. The issue is that schools want to see an exception to the rule that causes the low grades...or an upward trend. In other words, 5 or 6 explanations aren't as effective as a single cohesive explanation ('I had a 2.8 in Fall 200X due to a death in the family' or 'I didn't realize I what I wanted career wise until my Jr year, and when I becamse serious about my pursuit of vet med, my GPA improved signficantly, and my science GPA is excellent.') If you can increase it and bring it closer to a 3.5, that would probably help, but in my personal experience, serious increases in the last year of UG is difficult, even with 4.0 semesters.

As far as not applying due to GPA...if the school has a cut off (I believe NCSU's is 3.4) at which they will not consider your application if your gpa is lower than the cut off, unless the school has a forgiveness or an alternative eligibility program, then you are wasting money applying, since your app won't get past the first screening. However, it doesn't affect us, so have at it. As far as which schools have programs that would suit you or offer alternative eligibility and such, some were mentioned. If the suggestions aren't good enough, spending more time researching the schools will provide you with that information. Plus, any info you receive here is unofficial...you will eventually have to do the leg work to confirm any of what is suggested here.

Research experience can help, but it isn't always better than a good GPA. I had a lot of remarkable research experience, a 1400 GRE, lots of animal and vet experience in a variety of fields. I had one acceptance, 0 interviews. We are not suggesting that you not apply, or saying it is impossible. Most of the grade forgiveness programs have a cut off date...so you 'sacrifice' all the grades before that date, which may include some pre-reqs...which then need to be retaken. Are you in a position where you could do such a program? I am trying to remember what school I applied to that did that....I think it was either Illinois or Purdue.

Anyways, like I said above, defensiveness just suggests you feel the concerns about your GPA are justified....if you have a great reason, you know that in the center of your being. If you have a bunch of reasons that life is just too difficult too frequently for you, it will raise concerns about whether it will be too difficult too frequently in vet school. We can only tell you what we have experienced; then you have to do the leg work to figure it out and make the decisions for yourself.

Best wishes.

 

[OtakuVet]

well thanks for that. I understand about cut offs, I wouldnt apply to a school that had a particular cut off gpa that I did not meet, like you said that would mean you are losing money. As for david, I just found your post in regards that everyone is accepted to Ross as condescending, as though as if people who just dont feel that they cant make it in the US cant go there. If that isnt what you meant then that is my fault, and I am sorry for misjudging you. Also, I was willing to do the legwork, I wasnt asking for anyone to tell me what schools to apply to but what suggestions there would be according to those particular stats. And if you have ever sifted through a problem such as mine. Now of course I would look up the schools myself, but I was just asking for a bit of help. But sorry for bothering everyone.

 

[david594]

As for david, I just found your post in regards that everyone is accepted to Ross as condescending, as though as if people who just dont feel that they cant make it in the US cant go there.

Too many negatives in one sentence right there for me to get exactly what you are trying to say. Students who feel they are qualified to go to a US school cant go there?

But to clarify my views on Ross(which I have been pretty open about).

They are a for-profit institution with that being their highest priority.

They have low admissions standards and have no issues over-admitting their classes and simply allowing the system to prune out the excess(unqualified) students.

Their admissions deadline does not jive with the rest of the US schools putting students in an awkward financial situation if they want to hold their spot at Ross.(To ross's financial benefit)

And I have asked it here before, but does anyone know a person who has been outright rejected from Ross? All the students I have heard of being "rejected" have been offered a seat in their "vet-prep" program.

 

[OtakuVet]

Wow, sorry about that sentence. I guess I was just writing with my thoughts and my hands were not keeping up. Anyway what I meant to say was that people who went to Ross go there for the reason that they may feel unqualified for US Schools. This type of statement can be seen as condescending in the fact that you are assuming that everyone is accepted to Ross. Now, your statements above seem to provide pretty reasonable reasons for not liking Ross. And we can only hope that they do not accept everyone for the sake of their reputation and their students. And sorry, I havent been exposed on your particular statement on Ross University. But most of the people I've heard from seem to like it and a lot of the veterinarians Ive worked with knows of good veterinarians that came from Ross University. So we cannot assume all bad. But you have the right to your own opinion.

 

[david594]

I have no issue with the people who graduate from there. I've worked with a couple of them and they have all been quite competent vets.

My issue is with the significant number of people who are admitted there and are unable to finish out there first year. Ross admits more people than they are capable of graduating which guarantees that some will have to be failed out/expected to quit. I think the situation is unfair to them.

 

[Pandacinny]

I think everyone is right about increasing your GPA if possible. Also, if you can aim for a slightly higher GRE it wouldn't hurt either. Be careful about how you write your explanation statement. You don't want it to look like a big long list of excuses. Other people can probably help you more here.

GPA and GRE are both hard to work on, but you can always boost your experience. If you're in MD or northern VA, I know large animal experience can be difficult to find. You can contact Days End Farm Horse Rescue in Lisbon. They're always looking for volunteers and are really nice.

Having a lot of really varied experience looks better than, say, 6,000 hours at the same small animal clinic. Try to get some kind of experience that really stands out to people. I applied to vet school three times and finally got in on the third. I think what helped me was getting some really interesting experience with some lab animal vets. If you can find an experience that's unique or interesting or really sparks some passion in you, you'll have an easier time at interviews and you'll be a better candidate.

 

[susiewaits]

I agree with most people's replies here, in that it would certainly be beneficial for you to take another year of courses and boost your GPA. It sounds like your C's are peppered throughout your coursework, and though you may have legitimate reasons for this, the admissions commitees (the forgiving ones) will look for proof that you can in fact handle the academic rigors in vet school. They will be looking for an extended period of time in which you performed well academically. An extra year of coursework could prove this to them.

Now if you are talking about Ross/SGU and other schools, they can provide you with a fantastic education. I have worked with several veterinarians who graduated from these schools and thought they were great(honestly some of their colleagues thought that they were better prepared right out of school than some of the US schools' graduates) They are more forgiving re. your application GPA; instead you prove yourself as a student in your first/second year. I considered SGU in my first application cycle. I liked it a lot as a school (went to visit), however I am primarily interested in large animal medicine.

 

[bunnity]

If I were you I'd take CSU off that list because it's hard to get into out of state. Maybe add Western since they don't differentiate between IS/OOS and if you feel you have an interesting / unique story.

 

[CatVet2Be]

Aside from minimum cutoffs, some schools will require a higher GPA if you're out of state just to make it through the first round of cuts. When I did my undergrad my GPA was abysmal and would have never gotten me through the first rounds so I had to go back and take a lot of classes to prove I could handle full time classes and achieve great grades. If you wan to get into a US school you may have to seriously consider doing the same. Also, if there are schools you don't really want to apply to then don't because if you don't even want to apply, how will you feel about going there for 4 years? There are a few overseas programs that are AVMA accredited such as one in New Zealand, Scotland (I think) and England. If you don't mind going overseas you may want to consider those. A lot will have pre selection semesters that give you a chance to prove to the school that you can handle the courses so these may be a good option if you don't want to re-do 1-2 years of classes here.

Take a look at the successful applicants thread and see what others have done whose situations may be similar and what programs they applied to.

 

[OtakuVet]

Well that is defiantly helpful. If I do have to redo courses or perhaps do a Pre-vet program through an accredited school, I wouldn't mind that so much. Its just sifting through the many schools. I understand that the explanation statement cannot be a long list of problems, instead I decided to write it similarly to my personal statement. And what comes comes. These final two semesters I will be working with raising my gpa, but I do not want to get another degree or something of the sort because then that does waste time. I dont mind spending time in veterinary school, I just dont like the fact of adding another 20k to my already 22k of student loans. But lets not get into that, I think I am going to buy the Veterinary Medical School Matriarch book for this year and look into Kansas State. If you guys really think that CSU is out of my reach then I will take it into consideration. But you guys are right, it isnt good to have a huge set of explanations or excuses. But its always nice to hear other options too. Thats really all I was looking for was for options of other schools. But thanks alot you guys for all your help.

 

[flyhi]

Their admissions deadline does not jive with the rest of the US schools putting students in an awkward financial situation if they want to hold their spot at Ross.(To ross's financial benefit)

What's 'awkward' about it? They have rolling admissions, which is no secret. So, no, Ross' deadline would not 'jive' with the US. You view this as a negative for the applicant and obviously only a benefit to Ross. I disagree wholeheartedly. It provides those who missed the US deadline an opportunity to still apply (and get accepted) to a vet school essentially year round - if they so choose. Let the buyer beware. If you are going to apply to Ross, then you should be prepared to pay a deposit to hold your seat, should you be accepted, regardless of what time of year it is. Ross (and other Carib schools) offer rolling admissions and the applicant should know the deal. It is up to the applicant to determine the appropriate time to submit their application. Ross offers 3 matriculation dates a year and as part of their business plan, would need to have different deposit deadlines than the US in order to not only accommodate their students, but to also maintain their business. You have issue with them being for profit, but again - supply and demand. Can't really blame them for filling a need. Everyone is well aware of attrition rates, non accreditation, island issues and what not....so, what's the big deal?

You also state they 'have low admissions standards'..... what is your backup on this?

 

[david594]

What's 'awkward' about it? They have rolling admissions, which is no secret. So, no, Ross' deadline would not 'jive' with the US. You view this as a negative for the applicant and obviously only a benefit to Ross. I disagree wholeheartedly. It provides those who missed the US deadline an opportunity to still apply (and get accepted) to a vet school essentially year round - if they so choose. Let the buyer beware. If you are going to apply to Ross, then you should be prepared to pay a deposit to hold your seat, should you be accepted, regardless of what time of year it is. Ross (and other Carib schools) offer rolling admissions and the applicant should know the deal. It is up to the applicant to determine the appropriate time to submit their application. Ross offers 3 matriculation dates a year and as part of their business plan, would need to have different deposit deadlines than the US in order to not only accommodate their students, but to also maintain their business. You have issue with them being for profit, but again - supply and demand. Can't really blame them for filling a need. Everyone is well aware of attrition rates, non accreditation, island issues and what not....so, what's the big deal?

You also state they 'have low admissions standards'..... what is your backup on this?

You definitely had a very good summary for them. I can see thats it would only be "awkward" if someone wasn't expecting it. I guess I was specifically thinking of students applying to Ross concurrently with US schools.

I have no data to backup my thoughts on their "admissions standards". They aren't accredited, so are under no obligation to publish any of this data. Can you find any data that would demonstrate their level of admissions standards?

 

[tanoshii66]

I know someone who was rejected by Ross this past Spring based on her low BioChem grade (I believe she received a D in the course) and her low GPA (not certain what her GPA was but I know it was below a 3.0). This is the only person I've heard of who has been rejected from Ross. Everyone else I've heard who's applied has been accepted. Not sure if Ross posts their admission stats anywhere, but I'd be interested in them. 🙂

 

[OnceBitten]

As a few other people have recommended, I would not apply to CSU, as it would very likely turn out to be a waste of money in the end. Avoid all schools that either accept very few OOS students (like UF, Georgia, and Auburn) or receive an inordinate amount of OOS applications (like CSU). Personally, I would also avoid Illinois, as I believe they toss applications in the first round if they don't meet the GPA requirement.

I would, however, apply to Kansas and Missouri, as I know both accept a large amount of OOS students (40+). I know there must be others, as well, but I can't remember which at the moment. Perhaps Ohio? Anyone know?

 

[twelvetigers]

Ohio accepts quite a few!

Oklahoma gets looked over a lot, but I think it's worth a shake. A fair number of OOS applicants are accepted.

ETA: Iowa takes in a good bunch of OOS applicants as well.

 

[mekia02]

As for David594, what you say may be true but I think it is sort of condescending, so try to reword your statements next time.

This is so interesting that you perceived David594's statement as condescending, yet you didn't feel inhibited in your statement about applying to two schools that you don't want to go to.

Applying to a school that you don't want to be at ( for any reason) is insulting to the people who attend that school. If you don't want to be there but you apply, get accepted, and attend, you are taking an opportunity away from someone else who might have enjoyed the education.

It is also interesting how you were asked several times why you made that statement and you have not responded as to WHY you would not want to go there or why you would consider applying to those schools in the 1st place.

A little advise: If you don't want to go there, DON'T APPLY!!! You will not be able to go 4 years putting on an act like you appreciate being there, and a bad/unappreciative attitude will only alienate you from your classmates who did want to be there.

And to let you know, even though Tuskegee's website says 2.8 GPA is the cut off, at the beginning of the year the stats for the entering class are announced, and the reality is that no one accepted for c/o 2012 had a GPA below 3.0, and that most likely will be officially changed in the near future.

 

[gracietiger]

SUMSTORM-
When you say that your five classes only boosted your GPA a small amount, was that five classes looking at two semesters of Bio as one class, two semesters of Chem as another class, etc. or was that two semesters of Bio as counting as two classes, two semesters of Chem another two etc?

I hope that makes sense.

 

[TSUJC]

I don't know about Sumstorm but I took 46 hours (credits) of courses with all A's and B's and it only raised my GPA from a 2.79 to a 3.12. Raising your GPA is not as easy as it sounds!

 

[sumstorm]

17 credit hours, if that helps, single semester classes. there are calculators available to help figure out how much change you will see with x credits and y gpa

 

[gracietiger]

wow tsujc, that's for sure!!! fortunately, it sounds like many vet schools heavily consider the last 45 hours, so your A's and B's are very impressive.

thanks, sumstorm, i will do a search for the calculator. i've tried doing some calculations, but get really confused trying to convert the quarter hours i'm on now to the semester hours it seems the rest of the country is on🙂

 

[sumstorm]

thanks, sumstorm, i will do a search for the calculator. i've tried doing some calculations, but get really confused trying to convert the quarter hours i'm on now to the semester hours it seems the rest of the country is on🙂

I totally understand. My school did credits. Meet 3 times a week with 2 labs for a class? 1 credit. Meet twice a week, no lab? 1 credit. Conversions drove me nuts, and I had to explain that our organic chem sequences was 2 trimesters but the equivalent of 2 semesters.

 

[cwazy cat lady]

I just read a book that had one piece of interesting advice I hadn't considered yet. Essentially, the author, a former Cornell Admissions advisor, argued that one way of evaluating state schools is to consider the tax base of the state in which the school is located. Essentially, the more money/fudning potentially available, the likelier it is to be a 'better' school.

Sounds a bit like a no-brainer... but I hadn't actually considered that factor before.

I'm not sure if that influences the OP's thinking on where to apply.

 

[bunnity]

I just read a book that had one piece of interesting advice I hadn't considered yet. Essentially, the author, a former Cornell Admissions advisor, argued that one way of evaluating state schools is to consider the tax base of the state in which the school is located. Essentially, the more money/fudning potentially available, the likelier it is to be a 'better' school.

Sounds a bit like a no-brainer... but I hadn't actually considered that factor before.

I'm not sure if that influences the OP's thinking on where to apply.

That doesn't really make sense to me... every state is going to make its budget differently and amount given to a vet school does not necessarily reflect a state's total revenue. The amount the state gives to the school does not necessarily reflect its available cash either - they may have more or less fundraising / donations / investments. The other thing is that a school with a class of 50 will require less funding than a school with a class of 125 - less space, materials, cadavers, TA's, etc. needed, so it's not really fair to compare schools of different sizes.

Edit: and I'm not convinced more money necessarily makes a better school, either.