Mission ImpoWWssible Game Thread

Veterinary Science Graduate Programs from U. of I.
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Day 4 Yeet Vote

  • Total voters
    15
  • Poll closed .
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SARdoghandler said:
I do think this was a perfect game for the new players to dip their toe into a more "standard" sdn game after the champs practice

I eventually stopped commenting on game set up and what is possible because it didn't seem to be as helpful as I was hoping so I just sort of went "well, they'll figure it out in the end"
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i was infact educated on what the etiquette is for threads. noted for next time 😉
 
I am officially not volunteering to spearhead another game for a bit, though happy to help if anyone else wants to run one soon and needs some assistance.

Otherwise I'm taking a break until probably at least mid-July.
 
I have 4 more weeks of internship, so I will not be (actually) running any games during that time because I am quite certain I won't have time.
However, after that, expect my modding activity to pick up.

as in I'll actually design and mod things, not be a useless lump of dog.

However
if you did not enjoy the design of this game, I do not recommend signing up for mine, because anyone who has played the Stardeww games can attest that they are 100% not mechanics-solvable and I write my own rules.
(my games have historically ended up well-balanced, but if you like your mafia games to fit in neat boxes, you will not find mine enjoyable)
 
I will say, fruit, I deeply appreciate your care reacts, they're so sweet. I genuinely hope that you come back and give us another try sometime - the game can definitely get very heated (as I'm sure you've seen) but in the end we're all one big rowdy family 🥰

There was much less screaming in tot chat about my outrageous mech solving than I anticipated. I haven't played a forum game in a long time (I think last time was maybe PaWWsta? or Make Your Own?), but most recently was in a few live action games, and ours are always (semi)open setup/hidden flip where mech can make or break it (lots of fakeclaims, very fun) - and indeed, sometimes the joy is in finding how to break the system as much as it is psychologically solving haha. I'm super rusty on SDN's playstyle and of course these mods would design a game with a crazy set of characters 🤪

I'm glad I got to hang out a little bit with y'all before 3rd year starts. It's time for 12-hour days (or nights) on rotations :') The end is so close yet so far.
 
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If people want to play a game this month, I could probably have time to run one in a week or so if Dubz etc can't

Usually mine have somewhat less flavour (depending on my time commitments) but similar role madness to this game where roles are mostly for fun but may not help you solve 😂
 
vampyrica said:
i’m down to write flavor/storyline if someone wants to do the actual mechanics/roles aspect!
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I can definitely bring you on for a game in the future! I think I've already got something baaaaaa-ad really good planned

(For those who know, iykyk 😈)
 
For the record I really did think I had submitted the Clem vote in the poll, but I was also trying to cook dinner and I guess it got lost in everything I was doing.

FruitSalad I did also have really bad internet that night and kept trying to refresh the page and Samac had just gotten there and I decided to say **** it and go be a good host. Especially since I knew I was screwed anyway after the Clem debacle.
 
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SARdoghandler said:
I can definitely bring you on for a game in the future! I think I've already got something baaaaaa-ad really good planned

(For those who know, iykyk 😈)
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oh yes for sure! i should have specified that this was for the future haha, im moving in *checks calendar* 39 days and i am severely behind on arrangements 😭 😭 😭
 
vampyrica said:
oh yes for sure! i should have specified that this was for the future haha, im moving in *checks calendar* 39 days and i am severely behind on arrangements 😭 😭 😭
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Classes start in 21 days for me pookie i feel you :scared:

Season 2 Starz GIF by Hightown
 
chicandtoughness said:
I'm going to be honest I hate playing as town lol

My brain: act normal! because you are!
Me: uhhhhh hello kids how do you do
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You're a rare breed :biglove:So many people hate scumming
 
Zenge142 said:
For the record I really did think I had submitted the Clem vote in the poll, but I was also trying to cook dinner and I guess it got lost in everything I was doing.

FruitSalad I did also have really bad internet that night and kept trying to refresh the page and Samac had just gotten there and I decided to say **** it and go be a good host. Especially since I knew I was screwed anyway after the Clem debacle.
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I did get there at 8:58. My rude ass should have set in the car until 9
 
potentialsheltervet said:
Speculating about mechanics may be rarely useful, but it pleases my brain to try puzzling things out.
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Honestly the wild speculation is entertaining from the mod perspective (and something i participate in myself when I'm playing), it was the narrowing of possibilities that that had me more :eyebrow:
 
WildZoo said:
Honestly the wild speculation is entertaining from the mod perspective (and something i participate in myself when I'm playing), it was the narrowing of possibilities that that had me more :eyebrow:
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Yeah, tinfoiling is amusing

wrapping yourself so tight in the tinfoil that you cut off your oxygen supply and declare something can't possibly be in the game... is a poor decision 😉
 
I stand by my solving from what I know of mafia. I don’t think it was communicated very well to newer players that role madness here didn’t follow any standard mafia procedures or I would’ve adjusted how I solved mechanical info to account for that. I was invited here from another mafia community so I had no reason to assume I should leave all my mafia knowledge behind when trying to puzzle out the game.

I’m still pretty happy with how I solved based on the social deduction aspect. But to me, that’s not the only side of the game so I wasn’t going to ignore mechanics.
 
Perhaps our games are not the best fit for you if your preferred style is more what the champs practice game was. And there's nothing wrong with that! But closed role madness means exactly what it sounds like.

You're always welcome to play, but I'll say that it is, imo, in poor taste to be continuously complaining about the game design. We put a lot of work into our games here to make them fair, balanced, and winnable for all sides.
 
KayJayQueue said:
I stand by my solving from what I know of mafia. I don’t think it was communicated very well to newer players that role madness here didn’t follow any standard mafia procedures or I would’ve adjusted how I solved mechanical info to account for that. I was invited here from another mafia community so I had no reason to assume I should leave all my mafia knowledge behind when trying to puzzle out the game.

I’m still pretty happy with how I solved based on the social deduction aspect. But to me, that’s not the only side of the game so I wasn’t going to ignore mechanics.
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Yes, I totally get there being an adjustment since you're new here. Multiple people who have played here for a long time did try early on to communicate that there were assumptions being made that don't apply here, and were either ignored or chewed out for it.

We don't know what your experience is coming into a game or how exactly games run where you're coming from. It would have been easy enough to ask "hey what does role madness mean here" or ask for examples of role madness game thread since we have many of those.
 
supershorty said:
Perhaps our games are not the best fit for you if your preferred style is more what the champs practice game was. And there's nothing wrong with that! But closed role madness means exactly what it sounds like.

You're always welcome to play, but I'll say that it is, imo, in poor taste to be continuously complaining about the game design. We put a lot of work into our games here to make them fair, balanced, and winnable for all sides.
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I don’t think it’s in poor taste to give my opinion. I’ve played plenty of closed role madness and bastard games that are insane amd fun, I just don’t think I was properly prepared for the change of balance between my first game here and this one and that needs getting used to on my end. I’m having fun playing here and part of playing the game is having an opinion on that game. I didn’t realize giving feedback based on my personal experience was in poor taste. I admire and appreciate the effort the mods put forth to run these games.

If anything, I think it’s a bit poor taste to be invalidating my feelings and admonishing me for expressing them because you don’t like my opinions. Clearly I was invested in the game and stayed to engage with it because I was enjoying it. I think you’re reading my posts from a tilted perspective that I’m complaining when I’m not. My previous post said I would’ve adjusted how I played had I known I needed to, it didn’t say I wouldn’t have played. So to say I’m complaining about your game feels like a false assumption on your part.

When I was voted out and expressed frustration, you all told me to wait to see the setup before commenting on the balance, etc. so I continued watching and solving the game and enjoyed doing so. Once the game ended and I saw the setup, I gave my opinions on it and my perspective, which I didn’t realize I wasn’t supposed to do.

WildZoo said:
Yes, I totally get there being an adjustment since you're new here. Multiple people who have played here for a long time did try early on to communicate that there were assumptions being made that don't apply here, and were either ignored or chewed out for it.

We don't know what your experience is coming into a game or how exactly games run where you're coming from. It would have been easy enough to ask "hey what does role madness mean here" or ask for examples of role madness game thread since we have many of those.
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Once in the game, it’s hard to take things at face value from other players as there might be alignment motivation behind it, so while it would’ve been helpful for me to take what they said at face value, my mafia brain didn’t allow me to.

As I said, it’s an adjustment *I* need to get used to, not the other way around. I’m not expecting anything to change with how games are run here, I’m expecting to learn from each experience so *I* can get better and more knowledgeable in order to play a better game.
 
KayJayQueue said:
I don’t think it’s in poor taste to give my opinion. I’ve played plenty of closed role madness and bastard games that are insane amd fun, I just don’t think I was properly prepared for the change of balance between my first game here and this one and that needs getting used to on my end. I’m having fun playing here and part of playing the game is having an opinion on that game. I didn’t realize giving feedback based on my personal experience was in poor taste. I admire and appreciate the effort the mods put forth to run these games.

If anything, I think it’s a bit poor taste to be invalidating my feelings and admonishing me for expressing them because you don’t like my opinions. Clearly I was invested in the game and stayed to engage with it because I was enjoying it. I think you’re reading my posts from a tilted perspective that I’m complaining when I’m not. My previous post said I would’ve adjusted how I played had I known I needed to, it didn’t say I wouldn’t have played. So to say I’m complaining about your game feels like a false assumption on your part.

When I was voted out and expressed frustration, you all told me to wait to see the setup before commenting on the balance, etc. so I continued watching and solving the game and enjoyed doing so. Once the game ended and I saw the setup, I gave my opinions on it and my perspective, which I didn’t realize I wasn’t supposed to do.


Once in the game, it’s hard to take things at face value from other players as there might be alignment motivation behind it, so while it would’ve been helpful for me to take what they said at face value, my mafia brain didn’t allow me to.

As I said, it’s an adjustment *I* need to get used to, not the other way around. I’m not expecting anything to change with how games are run here, I’m expecting to learn from each experience so *I* can get better and more knowledgeable in order to play a better game.
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I am totally fine with and open to thoughtful game design critiques. I think there are a lot of things that can reasonably be critiqued about this design, there are things I would do differently (I am working on a post about the design process because I do enjoy those discussions and find them useful). I think some of my reaction is due to perceived tone, which of course can be a side effect of internet communication. I will say that one off, short jabs at specific roles without a discussion of how they fit in the overall context of the game feels less like a constructive critique to me personally. I am less interested in "don't do this, it's inherently unbalanced" than in "maybe this specific change would have made it feel more balanced in this game."

And yes, I understand it being difficult to trust comments about overall game design meta from players in the middle of a game, that's why I mentioned the option to ask for links to threads (or spreadsheets, we have plenty of those) if you were questioning what people were telling you. In general though my comments about being open to possibilities are intended to be something to take into future games. As I mentioned in dead chat, I often forget that the things we take for granted here are not standard elsewhere, even the things that seem relatively "normal" (conversions, anyone?).
 
I do try my best to make things balanced for any team to have a reasonable chance to win. I do not pretend to be able to make that an equal chance, I don't know if that is possible, and depending on your game philosophy it may not even be desirable - for instance, I pretty firmly believe that exclusive 3p wins should be inherently difficult and rare.


For this game, the design started with the idea to make The Entity have one, single power - the power of knowledge. That was the only thing genny had going for her, and that was very intentional. One could argue it's an inherently broken role, which is fine, we can agree to disagree, that particular critique just isn't helpful for me because it is the foundation that the rest of the game was built around. My goal for the rest of the design was to first build the wolf pack to allow them to withstand having a player in the game who knew who they were (but wasn't allowed to outright state she knew), make sure her win condition didn't allow her to win by just railroading the pack, and then balance the village in a way that allowed them to reasonably stand a chance against a wolf pack that had been designed with an extra member, without swinging too far in the other direction. And all of that while maintaining connective threads to the theme.


- The Entity inclusive wincon was inherently anti-village, but also fairly difficult for her to carry out given Ethan could have been any one of 8 players and she had no way of directly killing him. The exclusive wincon was intended to make it so she needed to allow the wolves to live long enough to narrow the player pool to the final 3. Since every wolf yeet reveals information about the rest of the pack and clears villagers through interactions, it was intended to make her work to keep them alive for some time, and then figure out how to manipulate the village into voting for them before the game ended too early, all without drawing too much attention to herself. That...obviously didn't go how I envisioned. I did consider tightening the relationship between Gabriel and The Entity and obscuring the other wolves more, and I think maybe that would have worked better.

- A 12 player game is a bit of a number balance anomaly, at least with how I typically balance numbers. 3 wolves feels like too many, 2 feels like too few. Given the existence of The Entity, I made the pack 3 because it felt like they needed that buffer since The Entity would eventually be targeting them. However, if you remove The Entity from the numbers equation, that is 3 wolves to 8 villagers, which is a little dicey considering there was no guarantee genny would actually have a negative impact on the wolf wincon or live long, given that I expected at some point she would draw wolf attention by pushing them.


- Given wolf numbers, I gave village more power. But I didn't want it to be easy for these PRs to be cleared just by existing, hence some being silent actions, some being limited use, some overlap in utility, and the seer being fairly crippled by 3 different roles and the ripple effect of distrust in her results that would be a longer-term consequence after the first inaccurate result.


- The wolves were all given abilities that were intended to provide a bit of a buffer against the village power, in case they got unlucky and all those PRs survived deep into the game or had made particularly good choices, or the Entity was particularly good at getting the village to follow their plans and decided to village-side excessively. I think given the chance to alter things, I would have given them some kind of information/investigative power as well. Obviously losing their blocker D1 was unfortunate given the rest of the setup.


I know that what seems balanced on paper (not claiming this game is balanced on paper, just that it did indeed seem that way to me when I finalized the design and randed roles) does not always stand up to the inherent unpredictability of player actions, and weaknesses in the game design often become more apparent during the process. That's why I am open to critiques and like to know how the game felt as a whole, regardless of the intellectual aspect. But hopefully this at least explains my thought process!
 
WildZoo said:
I do try my best to make things balanced for any team to have a reasonable chance to win. I do not pretend to be able to make that an equal chance, I don't know if that is possible, and depending on your game philosophy it may not even be desirable - for instance, I pretty firmly believe that exclusive 3p wins should be inherently difficult and rare.


For this game, the design started with the idea to make The Entity have one, single power - the power of knowledge. That was the only thing genny had going for her, and that was very intentional. One could argue it's an inherently broken role, which is fine, we can agree to disagree, that particular critique just isn't helpful for me because it is the foundation that the rest of the game was built around. My goal for the rest of the design was to first build the wolf pack to allow them to withstand having a player in the game who knew who they were (but wasn't allowed to outright state she knew), make sure her win condition didn't allow her to win by just railroading the pack, and then balance the village in a way that allowed them to reasonably stand a chance against a wolf pack that had been designed with an extra member, without swinging too far in the other direction. And all of that while maintaining connective threads to the theme.


- The Entity inclusive wincon was inherently anti-village, but also fairly difficult for her to carry out given Ethan could have been any one of 8 players and she had no way of directly killing him. The exclusive wincon was intended to make it so she needed to allow the wolves to live long enough to narrow the player pool to the final 3. Since every wolf yeet reveals information about the rest of the pack and clears villagers through interactions, it was intended to make her work to keep them alive for some time, and then figure out how to manipulate the village into voting for them before the game ended too early, all without drawing too much attention to herself. That...obviously didn't go how I envisioned. I did consider tightening the relationship between Gabriel and The Entity and obscuring the other wolves more, and I think maybe that would have worked better.

- A 12 player game is a bit of a number balance anomaly, at least with how I typically balance numbers. 3 wolves feels like too many, 2 feels like too few. Given the existence of The Entity, I made the pack 3 because it felt like they needed that buffer since The Entity would eventually be targeting them. However, if you remove The Entity from the numbers equation, that is 3 wolves to 8 villagers, which is a little dicey considering there was no guarantee genny would actually have a negative impact on the wolf wincon or live long, given that I expected at some point she would draw wolf attention by pushing them.


- Given wolf numbers, I gave village more power. But I didn't want it to be easy for these PRs to be cleared just by existing, hence some being silent actions, some being limited use, some overlap in utility, and the seer being fairly crippled by 3 different roles and the ripple effect of distrust in her results that would be a longer-term consequence after the first inaccurate result.


- The wolves were all given abilities that were intended to provide a bit of a buffer against the village power, in case they got unlucky and all those PRs survived deep into the game or had made particularly good choices, or the Entity was particularly good at getting the village to follow their plans and decided to village-side excessively. I think given the chance to alter things, I would have given them some kind of information/investigative power as well. Obviously losing their blocker D1 was unfortunate given the rest of the setup.


I know that what seems balanced on paper (not claiming this game is balanced on paper, just that it did indeed seem that way to me when I finalized the design and randed roles) does not always stand up to the inherent unpredictability of player actions, and weaknesses in the game design often become more apparent during the process. That's why I am open to critiques and like to know how the game felt as a whole, regardless of the intellectual aspect. But hopefully this at least explains my thought process!
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this was extremely well thought out. now that you explain it, it all makes much more sense! (keep in mind though, there is no mechanics in ToS, roles are randomized but keep the same ratio every time. 15 players, 3 maf, 4-7 true town, 2-3 neutral, 1-3 3p (serial killer, arsonist etc))
 
vampyrica said:
this was extremely well thought out. now that you explain it, it all makes much more sense! (keep in mind though, there is no mechanics in ToS, roles are randomized but keep the same ratio every time. 15 players, 3 maf, 4-7 true town, 2-3 neutral, 1-3 3p (serial killer, arsonist etc))
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Oh that's interesting! I had no idea ToS was so regimented. Or always had third parties lol
 
WildZoo said:
Oh that's interesting! I had no idea ToS was so regimented. Or always had third parties lol
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well there's only so much randomizing a computer can generate for a game! at the beginning of the game, your character spins a wheel and it lands on your role for the game. there are multipliers you can purchase to increase your chances for certain roles (ie you can make it so that you have a 43% chance of being GF), but the structure is pretty much the same. time allotted for each task is also the same.

Screenshot 2025-06-03 111806.png

hence why i'm still getting used to the fact we have hoursss and hourssss of discussion to get through before making decisions. also why i'm always hesitant to vote D1, bc we only get 15 seconds so chat usually just goes "gl hf" or recently, lots of people trolling.

but im enjoying this format more than ToS!! after a while, it can get predictable! just excuse me if it takes me a little while to understand what a traditional game versus chaos game looks like haha!
 
vampyrica said:
well there's only so much randomizing a computer can generate for a game! at the beginning of the game, your character spins a wheel and it lands on your role for the game. there are multipliers you can purchase to increase your chances for certain roles (ie you can make it so that you have a 43% chance of being GF), but the structure is pretty much the same. time allotted for each task is also the same.

View attachment 404465
hence why i'm still getting used to the fact we have hoursss and hourssss of discussion to get through before making decisions. also why i'm always hesitant to vote D1, bc we only get 15 seconds so chat usually just goes "gl hf" or recently, lots of people trolling.

but im enjoying this format more than ToS!! after a while, it can get predictable! just excuse me if it takes me a little while to understand what a traditional game versus chaos game looks like haha!
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Yes I can understand why this would be such an adjustment, wow
 
WildZoo said:
Yes I can understand why this would be such an adjustment, wow
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hey, it's working out in my favor though! quick thinking from having *checks chart* less than a minute to read a person is helping me make decisions and sticking with them *cough* staying on fruitsalad and zenge *cough* all in good fun ofc!
 
KayJayQueue said:
I don’t think it was communicated very well to newer players that role madness here didn’t follow any standard mafia procedures
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I don't think it's on sdn to communicate that sdn norms aren't the same as [norms on whatever other site], frankly. There's nothing wrong with making assumptions, but you also have to remember when you're playing on a new site or in a new mafia culture that they aren't necessarily going to conform to exactly the same norms you're used to. And that's ok! If everyone had the exact same standards and norms there wouldn't be much point in playing different places.
 
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