T20 next year or state school (T50) this year?

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sasukeuchiha33

sasukeuchiha33

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Hi everyone- so I’m in a peculiar situation. I took the MCAT twice in 2020 and got a 503 both times. I applied to 20 schools, and so far only got one interview from my state school (Indiana University) My GPA is pretty high at 3.9+ too.

I just got my MCAT from January 15 back and am very fortunate to have scored a 525. I was in a much different mindset and it drastically changed how I approached the test, so I’m happy to see it paid off. That being said, if I get into IU this year, should I take my admission offer, or should I withdraw and reapply this upcoming cycle to several top 20 schools?

I am willing to take out more loans if it means I can get a stronger name. I’m interested in very competitive specialties like derm and plastics (though not academic medicine) and have heard that a strong name can go really, really far with helping to match these residencies. Although, I am burnt out from the exhaustion of taking the MCAT three times and don’t know if I have the strength to push through applying and interviewing another year (I have a masters program and research lined up in the meantime since I thought I wouldn’t get in this year). So- if I get in to IU, do I take it, or do I wait and apply again to try and secure a top 20 admission? Adcom and expert advice appreciated @Goro @LizzyM @gonnif @WedgeDawg @gyngyn Thanks everyone!
 
What's the rest of your application like? Even with that MCAT (huge congrats!) there's no guarantee that you can get into medical school again--let alone a T20. Whole process is just too unpredictable. And if you do want to reapply next year...would you need to possibly withdraw from IU before getting an acceptance?
 
I personally would take the Indiana acceptance and run if it came through, but just note that you should make this decision before you hear back from Indiana. If you get accepted to Indiana, you basically have to take it, or risk being blacklisted from all MD schools. Turning down any med school acceptance is generally taboo.
 
Congrats on the amazing score! Unfortunately though, it would look really bad if you declined an acceptance anywhere, because you have to disclose that when you apply next year. I believe I've seen all those experts you've tagged mention that MD schools would judge you harshly even for declining a DO acceptance in a previous cycle, so it could make it even more unlikely for you to get in anywhere.
 
Hey Sasuke,

Congrats on the huge MCAT score jump! Just keep in mind that some schools use your average MCAT score (510), and T20 next year is never guaranteed. Adcoms on here will probably suggest that you take the IU acceptance if you can this year, especially since it'll be cheap IS tuition. I'd do the same. Plus if you withdrew your application from IU this year, they may not interview you again next year (there goes your state school).

Your loving bro,
Itachi
 
Granted, I've never taken the CARS but do you have an offer from IU or only an interview invitation? Don't count your chickens before they hatch but if you do get an offer of admission this year, grab it and go. Regardless of the specialty you go into, you are losing a year of attending salary (or delaying retirement) by postponing a year and holding out for a better offer in a subsequent cycle.

Some schools will average 503, 503, 525 bringing you to just over 510. That won't get you looked at by some top schools. Some will wonder why it took 3 tries to do what a handful of applicants do on the first try.

Pedigree can matter but what matters more is what you do with the opportunity you are given. Even if most people at the school where you matriculate want to do primary care or one of the less competitive specialties, you can be proactive in getting research experience, doing audition rotations, developing a portfolio that will generate a strong letter of support from your dean of students, etc. In fact, the lack of competition at a school with fewer gunners may mean that opportunities are easier to come by.
 
You should absolutely take the Indiana acceptance if you get it; it is a good medical school and will get you anywhere you need to get to. Take a look at their match list and see the plastics/derms matches over the past few years. If you don't get accepted, well you don't have much of a choice but to apply again - the new MCAT will certainly help.
 
sasukeuchiha33 said:
Hi everyone- so I’m in a peculiar situation. I took the MCAT twice in 2020 and got a 503 both times. I applied to 20 schools, and so far only got one interview from my state school (Indiana University) My GPA is pretty high at 3.9+ too.

I just got my MCAT from January 15 back and am very fortunate to have scored a 525. I was in a much different mindset and it drastically changed how I approached the test, so I’m happy to see it paid off. That being said, if I get into IU this year, should I take my admission offer, or should I withdraw and reapply this upcoming cycle to several top 20 schools?

I am willing to take out more loans if it means I can get a stronger name. I’m interested in very competitive specialties like derm and plastics (though not academic medicine) and have heard that a strong name can go really, really far with helping to match these residencies. Although, I am burnt out from the exhaustion of taking the MCAT three times and don’t know if I have the strength to push through applying and interviewing another year (I have a masters program and research lined up in the meantime since I thought I wouldn’t get in this year). So- if I get in to IU, do I take it, or do I wait and apply again to try and secure a top 20 admission? Adcom and expert advice appreciated @Goro @LizzyM @gonnif @WedgeDawg @gyngyn Thanks everyone!
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Always go with the sure bet and the cheaper tuition.

IU is a good school and you'll go far.

EDIT: Always best to get into medical school first, and then worry about residency and specialty.
 
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Goro said:
Always go with the sure bet and the cheaper tuition.

IU is a good school and you'll go far.

And frankly, yours is not the trajectory of someone who is on track for Derm or plastics. Those people don't need three tries at the MCAT to score super high.
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Thanks to everyone for all the amazing advice, I really appreciate it. It's given me a lot of perspective.

Thanks @Goro too, I appreciate the advice, but was that last part really necessary 😭 I was going through a lot in my personal life at that time- my family had to relocate and downsize, there was a lot other significant stuff happening with my extended family, and my MCAT had been cancelled 5 different times (second one got cancelled twice) before I finally took it because of continuously new COVID policies in my area. I think I showed with this recent score that when my life isn't going to hell, I'm more than capable of holding my own with people who plan to go into these fields, so I don't appreciate that remark. Although you always tend to give me good advice, so thank you for all those other times.
 
sasukeuchiha33 said:
Hi everyone- so I’m in a peculiar situation. I took the MCAT twice in 2020 and got a 503 both times. I applied to 20 schools, and so far only got one interview from my state school (Indiana University) My GPA is pretty high at 3.9+ too.

I just got my MCAT from January 15 back and am very fortunate to have scored a 525. I was in a much different mindset and it drastically changed how I approached the test, so I’m happy to see it paid off. That being said, if I get into IU this year, should I take my admission offer, or should I withdraw and reapply this upcoming cycle to several top 20 schools?

I am willing to take out more loans if it means I can get a stronger name. I’m interested in very competitive specialties like derm and plastics (though not academic medicine) and have heard that a strong name can go really, really far with helping to match these residencies. Although, I am burnt out from the exhaustion of taking the MCAT three times and don’t know if I have the strength to push through applying and interviewing another year (I have a masters program and research lined up in the meantime since I thought I wouldn’t get in this year). So- if I get in to IU, do I take it, or do I wait and apply again to try and secure a top 20 admission? Adcom and expert advice appreciated @Goro @LizzyM @gonnif @WedgeDawg @gyngyn Thanks everyone!
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Go to IU and be happy about it
 
sasukeuchiha33 said:
Thanks to everyone for all the amazing advice, I really appreciate it. It's given me a lot of perspective.

Thanks @Goro too, I appreciate the advice, but was that last part really necessary 😭 I was going through a lot in my personal life at that time- my family had to relocate and downsize, there was a lot other significant stuff happening with my extended family, and my MCAT had been cancelled 5 different times (second one got cancelled twice) before I finally took it because of continuously new COVID policies in my area. I think I showed with this recent score that when my life isn't going to hell, I'm more than capable of holding my own with people who plan to go into these fields, so I don't appreciate that remark. Although you always tend to give me good advice, so thank you for all those other times.
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I agree that's not the way to address a premed who is asking for advice! I doubt that many can go from 503 to 525.
 
Something else I just thought I'd add in here for argument's sake... I just talked to a mentor who is a renowned vascular surgeon (he also served on admissions committees when he was still in academic medicine). Granted, that's not a field I think I'm interested in at the moment, but it's a very competitive specialty nonetheless. Just got off the phone with him a while ago and he told me that for what I wanted, I'd be better off waiting for the following reasons.

1. If I really want derm/plastics, I need to avail myself of every possible advantage. He also mentioned that with Step 1 now going P/F, he suspects school prestige is going to play a much larger role in the match.

2. Many schools have a policy where they only consider the latest score or the highest score (his school only looked at the latest score). I know this to be true as many school websites say the same thing as well. If this is the case, then my previous scores shouldn't matter.

3. If I can manage to get in, I will reap tremendous benefits- more prestigious research opportunities, better connections, and therefore LORs that hold a significant amount of weight to help with the match.

He himself went to a lower-ranked MD (90-100 as ranked by USNWR) school and had a very difficult time getting into vascular surgery- he's said that he thinks he would've had a much easier time and matched at his top choice had he gone to a T20 school, so he strongly suggested I consider waiting. Idk, I'm getting confused now haha. This is a much harder thing to discuss than I was originally anticipating.
 
sasukeuchiha33 said:
Something else I just thought I'd add in here for argument's sake... I just talked to a mentor who is a renowned vascular surgeon (he also served on admissions committees when he was still in academic medicine). Granted, that's not a field I think I'm interested in at the moment, but it's a very competitive specialty nonetheless. Just got off the phone with him a while ago and he told me that for what I wanted, I'd be better off waiting for the following reasons.

1. If I really want derm/plastics, I need to avail myself of every possible advantage. He also mentioned that with Step 1 now going P/F, he suspects school prestige is going to play a much larger role in the match.

2. Many schools have a policy where they only consider the latest score or the highest score (his school only looked at the latest score). I know this to be true as many school websites say the same thing as well. If this is the case, then my previous scores shouldn't matter.

3. If I can manage to get in, I will reap tremendous benefits- more prestigious research opportunities, better connections, and therefore LORs that hold a significant amount of weight to help with the match.

He himself went to a lower-ranked MD (90-100 as ranked by USNWR) school and had a very difficult time getting into vascular surgery- he's said that he thinks he would've had a much easier time and matched at his top choice had he gone to a T20 school, so he strongly suggested I consider waiting. Idk, I'm getting confused now haha. This is a much harder thing to discuss than I was originally anticipating.
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His advice is also not wrong but you are comparing T20-T50 and you know T10s are hard to predict. If you want bolster your research experience for competitive residency may be you can take one gap year during med school to bolster your research exp. Remember with Covid situation you may not find that many opportunities now.
 
Look at match lists. T20's aren't the only ones producing derm/plastics residents. Of course you want advantages but people match into these residencies every year from all over.

Adcoms may ding you a point for being a reapplicant. May ding you a point for declining a medical school acceptance. May ding you a point for having a seemingly outlier MCAT (I'm not saying it is, but when you only have 3 data points that's what it looks like).

Do you want to go through the application process again? You applied to 20 schools and got only a single interview, from your state school nonetheless - has that been stressful for you? Are you eager to do it again?

It's your cycle so do what you want but since you're here soliciting opinions, it's not like IU is by any stretch a bad school, and if you're lucky enough to get an acceptance there you should absolutely take it. Bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
 
Goro said:
It's all about consistancy.
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How PD knows about an applicant consistency? Is it something med school or medical student required to report for residency process?
 
sasukeuchiha33 said:
Hi everyone- so I’m in a peculiar situation. I took the MCAT twice in 2020 and got a 503 both times. I applied to 20 schools, and so far only got one interview from my state school (Indiana University) My GPA is pretty high at 3.9+ too.

I just got my MCAT from January 15 back and am very fortunate to have scored a 525. I was in a much different mindset and it drastically changed how I approached the test, so I’m happy to see it paid off. That being said, if I get into IU this year, should I take my admission offer, or should I withdraw and reapply this upcoming cycle to several top 20 schools?

I am willing to take out more loans if it means I can get a stronger name. I’m interested in very competitive specialties like derm and plastics (though not academic medicine) and have heard that a strong name can go really, really far with helping to match these residencies. Although, I am burnt out from the exhaustion of taking the MCAT three times and don’t know if I have the strength to push through applying and interviewing another year (I have a masters program and research lined up in the meantime since I thought I wouldn’t get in this year). So- if I get in to IU, do I take it, or do I wait and apply again to try and secure a top 20 admission? Adcom and expert advice appreciated @Goro @LizzyM @gonnif @WedgeDawg @gyngyn Thanks everyone!
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How many schools are you waiting to hear from? Why not update them on your score?
 
sasukeuchiha33 said:
Something else I just thought I'd add in here for argument's sake... I just talked to a mentor who is a renowned vascular surgeon (he also served on admissions committees when he was still in academic medicine). Granted, that's not a field I think I'm interested in at the moment, but it's a very competitive specialty nonetheless. Just got off the phone with him a while ago and he told me that for what I wanted, I'd be better off waiting for the following reasons.

1. If I really want derm/plastics, I need to avail myself of every possible advantage. He also mentioned that with Step 1 now going P/F, he suspects school prestige is going to play a much larger role in the match.

2. Many schools have a policy where they only consider the latest score or the highest score (his school only looked at the latest score). I know this to be true as many school websites say the same thing as well. If this is the case, then my previous scores shouldn't matter.

3. If I can manage to get in, I will reap tremendous benefits- more prestigious research opportunities, better connections, and therefore LORs that hold a significant amount of weight to help with the match.

He himself went to a lower-ranked MD (90-100 as ranked by USNWR) school and had a very difficult time getting into vascular surgery- he's said that he thinks he would've had a much easier time and matched at his top choice had he gone to a T20 school, so he strongly suggested I consider waiting. Idk, I'm getting confused now haha. This is a much harder thing to discuss than I was originally anticipating.
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My advice: update schools (especially IU) on your new MCAT score (if they take updates), and plan to matriculate if you are accepted. You will have research opportunities at IU for both dermatology and plastics, and will have a home program to apply to. While I do believe that medical school prestige can matter a bit for matching at the tippy top programs, let's stop treating IU like it's SGU or Podunk SOM. If you don't successfully match from IU into these competitive fields, it's because you were simply not a competitive applicant to begin with. Going to even a T5 medical school is not going to remedy that. Also, despite your third attempt being good, you are still not a shoe-in to the top medical schools. If you choose to withdraw and reapply, you will have lost a year of attending salary, and possibly find yourself attending the same tier of medical schools/residency programs down the road. Don't be foolish.
 
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sasukeuchiha33 said:
Something else I just thought I'd add in here for argument's sake... I just talked to a mentor who is a renowned vascular surgeon (he also served on admissions committees when he was still in academic medicine). Granted, that's not a field I think I'm interested in at the moment, but it's a very competitive specialty nonetheless. Just got off the phone with him a while ago and he told me that for what I wanted, I'd be better off waiting for the following reasons.

1. If I really want derm/plastics, I need to avail myself of every possible advantage. He also mentioned that with Step 1 now going P/F, he suspects school prestige is going to play a much larger role in the match.

2. Many schools have a policy where they only consider the latest score or the highest score (his school only looked at the latest score). I know this to be true as many school websites say the same thing as well. If this is the case, then my previous scores shouldn't matter.

3. If I can manage to get in, I will reap tremendous benefits- more prestigious research opportunities, better connections, and therefore LORs that hold a significant amount of weight to help with the match.

He himself went to a lower-ranked MD (90-100 as ranked by USNWR) school and had a very difficult time getting into vascular surgery- he's said that he thinks he would've had a much easier time and matched at his top choice had he gone to a T20 school, so he strongly suggested I consider waiting. Idk, I'm getting confused now haha. This is a much harder thing to discuss than I was originally anticipating.
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As someone previously stated, you are comparing T20 vs 50 and you said he went to a T90-100. So off the rip y’all are not in the same position.
He’s also still extremely successful so that should prove to you that it is possible.
If you want to reapply, you’re going to do so regardless of sdn advice, but I can tell you you’ll get very few endorsements here for leaving an acceptance in favor of trying to get into a *slightly* better school, so don’t wait on that validation.
 
Also to OP, you’re getting a lot of a great advice but I’ll chime in to say, take what you’re hearing from your mentor with a heavy grain of salt. Scoring well on the MCAT is not going to suddenly make adcoms fawn over you. I’ve found that older physicians and professors think that the MCAT is still the end all be all it might’ve been back in the day. It’s not. Thousands of applicants are applying next year with 520+ on their first attempt without reapplicant status.

If you have an unsuccessful cycle and don’t get the A from Indiana that’s a different story. But if you do, be thankful you’re in the 40% of applicants that get accepted each year.
 
Another ridiculous premed thread. You're debating whether or not to throw away an acceptance THAT YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE YET. If you do get an acceptance from IU, you had better take it. Some simple pros and cons of throwing it away:

Pros:
Might get into a higher ranked med school
More prestigious medical school might lend itself to better connections/research, thus enhancing chance of matching competitive specialty

Cons:
Loss of one year's attending salary (going into plastics/derm? probably $500,000, conservatively)
Might end up at similarly ranked medical school if you get in next year
Will never be considered by your state school (IU) again, will end up paying private or OOS tuition which will lead to a ton of extra debt
May be DNR'd by medical schools next year for being stupid and may never become a doctor

I am going into a very competitive field and I can tell you that medical school prestige has not affected the type/number of interviews that I'm receiving. It's all about how productive you are during medical school, and what you do with the opportunities that you are given. I was pissed that I didn't get into one of those T10 med schools 4 years ago, but in hindsight I'm so glad that I didn't. It didn't end up mattering at all.

You probably are unaware of this, but some "top" med schools still have certain departments/residency programs which suck and don't live up to the hype. It's a bad idea to base your medical school decisions based on what residency you think you want......you'll likely change your mind 3x during med school.
 
sasukeuchiha33 said:
Something else I just thought I'd add in here for argument's sake... I just talked to a mentor who is a renowned vascular surgeon (he also served on admissions committees when he was still in academic medicine). Granted, that's not a field I think I'm interested in at the moment, but it's a very competitive specialty nonetheless. Just got off the phone with him a while ago and he told me that for what I wanted, I'd be better off waiting for the following reasons.

1. If I really want derm/plastics, I need to avail myself of every possible advantage. He also mentioned that with Step 1 now going P/F, he suspects school prestige is going to play a much larger role in the match.

2. Many schools have a policy where they only consider the latest score or the highest score (his school only looked at the latest score). I know this to be true as many school websites say the same thing as well. If this is the case, then my previous scores shouldn't matter.

3. If I can manage to get in, I will reap tremendous benefits- more prestigious research opportunities, better connections, and therefore LORs that hold a significant amount of weight to help with the match.

He himself went to a lower-ranked MD (90-100 as ranked by USNWR) school and had a very difficult time getting into vascular surgery- he's said that he thinks he would've had a much easier time and matched at his top choice had he gone to a T20 school, so he strongly suggested I consider waiting. Idk, I'm getting confused now haha. This is a much harder thing to discuss than I was originally anticipating.
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Let’s start at the beginning. You haven’t been accepted anywhere yet. To get into derm or plastics you do have to go to med school. What have you done since you applied that has significantly improved your application? ( I know- the huge MCAT SCORE increase-congrats!) But what else?

It is true that some schools say they average, use the latest or the highest score but there is absolutely no way to predict what the person reviewing your application will think. They see ALL scores and who knows what their biases are towards a three time test taker who scored 503 twice will be.

What if you get accepted at IU and refuse the spot and you reapply next year and are rejected everywhere.

Just because you think you “will reap tremendous benefits- more prestigious research opportunities, better connections, and therefore LORs that hold a significant amount of weight to help with the match” doesn’t mean it will happen. It might but don’t give up an acceptance based on what you think or perceive (if you even get an acceptance) for those reasons.
Are you aware that only around 40-42% of ALL applicants are accepted each cycle? And of that amount about half are only accepted at one school. So that means around 57+% of all applicants are rejected every cycle , including stellar applicants. Frankly applying to med school is a crap,shoot. And the higher you aim the worse it is.

So tread carefully. Think hard and if you are intent on doing this withdraw from IU BEFORE you are accepted.
 
Dude it sounds like you want to wait for a more prestigious school. No one knows how this will turn out so do it and let’s see how it goes for you. I get you had a lot going on but the 525 after three tries is still not the same as someone with a 520+ on second attempt and especially first. Schools say they only look at highest score but that’s some Bs IMO, why would they look at that metric of your app the same as a 525 first timer. As someone who has interviewed at 15 of the top 20-25 schools this cycle , and who has (with no shame) briefly looked up some of my co-applicants, I am amazed at what these folks are doing despite many being seniors in college or 1-2 years out of school. And this is just the people I see in my interview day, there are at least 20x the number of interviewees!!. It takes much more than stats to get into these top institutions. If you are considering reapplying it is already February so I realistically don’t know what else you could do to beef up your application besides that. But once again it sounds like this is what you want to do so just do it , it’s your life, you’ll get into school eventually , and definitely one next year if you apply broadly with that score. If anything, you’ll answer the “what if” for yourself, and be able to chill a bit. At the end of the day, you won’t be happy if you have this regret. You’ll always think about it come looking for sub-Is, residency apps, etc.

lastly, agree with LizzyM and others in that it is what you do where you go that matters. If you really want plastics etc then you can make it happen . Look in the DO forum there was someone who wrote a really inspiring post on how he received multiple residency interviews at competitive program because of how hard he worked to pursue a goal he had set for himself as an ms1.

and patients won’t care what med school you went to. Though I’m sure you know that. All they care about is your Doximity ranking etc and how many positive ratings you have (or that you gave a close friend of theirs outstanding care)
 
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I interviewed at IU recently and I have IU's 2020 match list pulled up on my computer and there's like five derm matches and two plastic matches. Either way, it's ill-advised to turn down an acceptance so if you are set on your reapplication plan, withdraw your interview and give it to someone else. Additionally, I might be wrong, but I would probably scratch them off the list in the event you turn it down and reapply. I believe they would know you turned down an interview so you wouldn't even have your state school as guaranteed "backup" in the event you reapply. Then there's the innate competition at those top schools that you will have to deal with as a 3 time test-taker and reapplicant. What if you reapply and get into a school like Emory? That's not a "T20." Would you be disappointed?
 
HopeP said:
How PD knows about an applicant consistency? Is it something med school or medical student required to report for residency process?
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I think @Goro ’s point is that students with inconsistent academic records (multiple MCAT attempts, wavy GPA trends, etc.) are likely to have inconsistent performance in the future. An extension of this being that the folks who land in derm and plastics were probably rockstars at each step in their path through the academy.
 
I would always recommend state school where you are coming out with a manageable debt vs school with 400K debt.

The likelihood of your med school's name being the deciding factor on your field is marginal. Take the low debt and start a year early. I never understand waiting but that is just my mindset.
 
IU is not an unknown low tier school. It is well regarded and will have plenty of opportunities for research/contact building.

This is all hypothetical, but if you do get the acceptance, please take it. There is no guarantee you will get interviewed for top 20s next cycle, let alone accepted, and you will have thrown away your IU acceptance for no reason.
 
Kardio said:
I think @Goro ’s point is that students with inconsistent academic records (multiple MCAT attempts, wavy GPA trends, etc.) are likely to have inconsistent performance in the future. An extension of this being that the folks who land in derm and plastics were probably rockstars at each step in their path through the academy.
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We also hear that we can’t go by single metric. In this case OP had some issues with MCAT and after sorting those out went from 503 to 525 which is going from 50th percentile to 100th percentile in no time which is very rare. I don’t think PD directors will care so much about two low MCAT scores from 4 years back.
 
Goro said:
Always go with the sure bet and the cheaper tuition.

IU is a good school and you'll go far.

And frankly, yours is not the trajectory of someone who is on track for Derm or plastics. Those people don't need three tries at the MCAT to score super high.
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HopeP said:
How PD knows about an applicant consistency? Is it something med school or medical student required to report for residency process?
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Goro said:
It's all about consistancy.
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That’s absurd. Consulting companies employ a similar practice where they ask interviewees for high school SAT scores. I understand a solid record of integrity but I would hope upward trajectories are given the same emphasis as consistent performance.
 
sasukeuchiha33 said:
Hi everyone- so I’m in a peculiar situation. I took the MCAT twice in 2020 and got a 503 both times. I applied to 20 schools, and so far only got one interview from my state school (Indiana University) My GPA is pretty high at 3.9+ too.

I just got my MCAT from January 15 back and am very fortunate to have scored a 525. I was in a much different mindset and it drastically changed how I approached the test, so I’m happy to see it paid off. That being said, if I get into IU this year, should I take my admission offer, or should I withdraw and reapply this upcoming cycle to several top 20 schools?

I am willing to take out more loans if it means I can get a stronger name. I’m interested in very competitive specialties like derm and plastics (though not academic medicine) and have heard that a strong name can go really, really far with helping to match these residencies. Although, I am burnt out from the exhaustion of taking the MCAT three times and don’t know if I have the strength to push through applying and interviewing another year (I have a masters program and research lined up in the meantime since I thought I wouldn’t get in this year). So- if I get in to IU, do I take it, or do I wait and apply again to try and secure a top 20 admission? Adcom and expert advice appreciated @Goro @LizzyM @gonnif @WedgeDawg @gyngyn Thanks everyone!
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Med schools will likely average your score... The mean is 510. That's lethal at a top 20 unless you have something super special about your application (URM, Nobel prizes, etc.).
 
DNAJB6 said:
Med schools will likely average your score... The mean is 510. That's lethal at a top 20 unless you have something super special about your application (URM, Nobel prizes, etc.).
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It's all moot as the OP has no accepts.

Turning down one's only accept, BTW, is the single worst mistake a premed can make, BTW.
 
My MCAT tutor had a 3.9+/525 (on his first try) and was sure he would go to a T20 school. Guess where he's at. Ohio State. OSU is a great school, but my point is that the application process is crazy and almost random. You can NEVER be certain you will go to a T20 school (especially with 3 MCAT retakes). If you get that IU acceptance, it would be in your best interest to take it, and you should be completely stoked that you got into medical school during one of the most competitive cycles there has been in the last few years. On top of that, IU is $36k/year for IS. Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Columbia, Cornell, etc, etc, etc are all above $60k. Take the sure acceptance, the extra $100k (just up front - $150k after interest accumulates over a decade), and be happy. Not to mention what has been echoed above - IU matches just fine into derm and plastics, and you may be underestimating their reputation in the medical community.

If you don't get in, then that's okay too because you have a great reapplication put together.
 
EdgeTrimmer said:
We also hear that we can’t go by single metric. In this case OP had some issues with MCAT and after sorting those out went from 503 to 525 which is going from 50th percentile to 100th percentile in no time which is very rare. I don’t think PD directors will care so much about two low MCAT scores from 4 years back.
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I didn’t say that OPs most recent MCAT wasn’t impressive or that PDs care about MCAT scores. I said that past performance is a great predictor of future performance.

The analogy isn’t perfect, but you can see this trend with the (presumably) post-SMP students in MD Senior Charting Outcomes. In 2020, 20% and 25% of matched and unmatched derm applicants (respectively) had “another graduate degree.” The trend continues in plastics, at 22% and 29% for matched and unmatched with “another graduate degree.” The students who seems to have needed to remediate their undergrad GPA are over represented in the unmatched cohort across most competitive specialties.

None of this is to say that OP will not, cannot, or is highly unlikely to accomplish their goals.
 
Kardio said:
I didn’t say that OPs most recent MCAT wasn’t impressive or that PDs care about MCAT scores. I said that past performance is a great predictor of future performance.

The analogy isn’t perfect, but you can see this trend with the (presumably) post-SMP students in MD Senior Charting Outcomes. In 2020, 20% and 25% of matched and unmatched derm applicants (respectively) had “another graduate degree.” The trend continues in plastics, at 22% and 29% for matched and unmatched with “another graduate degree.” The students who seems to have needed to remediate their undergrad GPA are over represented in the unmatched cohort across most competitive specialties.

None of this is to say that OP will not, cannot, or is highly unlikely to accomplish their goals.
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Past performance sometimes gives faulty impressions of future performance. 6,000 years ago I could have walked through the vast, rainy grassland of the Sahara. But last time I was in Ouarzazate, I saw very little grass. Things change.
 
Screamapillar said:
Past performance sometimes gives faulty impressions of future performance. 6,000 years ago I could have walked through the vast, rainy grassland of the Sahara. But last time I was in Ouarzazate, I saw very little grass. Things change.
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What does this mean 😂
 
Kardio said:
This is a truism.
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Truisms are bad because they usually don't need to be mentioned. Unfortunately in this case it did. Someone getting a 503 on their MCAT followed by a 525 I think puts them on solid path towards a competitive residency if thats what they want.
 
theencrypted said:
it would look really bad if you declined an acceptance anywhere, because you have to disclose that when you apply next year.
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I know I am late the conversation here and I want to be upfront in saying that I firmly agree that OP should under no circumstances turn down a guaranteed acceptance for the chance at a ‘better school’ but just to clarify, holding a past acceptance only needs to be disclosed at schools which specifically ask for that information on their secondary as this question is not on the primary. Many schools do ask, but most do not. Further, per the traffic rules, this information would not be communicated by AAMC to any schools you do apply to in a reapplication- only schools which previously waitlisted or accepted you in the same cycle you had the acceptance would know about the past acceptance. Further, I do not believe that schools maintain any form of back-channel communication with each other about specific applicants as that would amount to the ‘collusion’ which led to the institution of the traffic rules in the first place.

sources:

1) Shows only medical schools who have previously waitlisted or accepted you will be able to run reports showing where specific applicants have been accepted, and only if you actually selected CTE/PTE elsewhere. After the cycle, every other school will just know you are a reapplicant-but only if you applied there. New schools will not know you ever previously applied.

2) Why I think there wouldn’t be collusion: “ Each school, consistent with its own privacy policies, should appropriately safeguard information related to an individual’s application for admission or financial aid.”


Now, all of this isn’t to say that there isn’t some other mechanism by which admissions committees can tell an applicant has had a previous acceptance (if any ADCOM members would like to clarify on this), and again this isn’t to tell you you should turn down an acceptance if you do get one as you shouldn’t gamble with your future, but I do think it should be stated that this information is not disclosed by the applicant to schools unless specifically asked. And if asked, turning down an acceptance because you thought you could get a better one is not a good excuse.
 
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interesting how you won't expand on the rest of your app... even a 503 with a 3.9+ and a decent EC list should get something more than a statie.... unless you only applied to the JHU-esque tier. hmm...
 
if that was the only flaw, i could see them getting an interview somewhere else like the franklins of the med school world. and DO schools. but that's presuming the only suck factor was the mcat. which i'm doubting, for obvious reasons.
 
stinkycheeseperson said:
f that was the only flaw, i could see them getting an interview somewhere else like the franklins of the med school world. and DO schools. but that's presuming the only suck factor was the mcat. which i'm doubting, for obvious reasons.
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As an FYI, a 503 score is circling the drain for MD schools, even for Rosie F.
 
yeah, i should have added "School list" as a factor.. who applies to hopkins with a 503? jeez.
 
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