Take Honors Orgo to get in HMS

[Int'lEng]

My profile:
Cornell Engineering (rising junior in Fall 2019)
Current GPA: 3.956. sGPA: 3.888.

I took the normal Gen CHEM 2080 and was planning to take the normal Orgo I (CHEM 3570) next semester. But now that I have included HMS in my goals, I wonder if I should take the honors Orgo I & II instead of normal Orgo to show the admissions committee that I'm "smart". My Chem2080 experience was pretty much a breeze: taking notes during lectures, doing problem sets and getting A's on the prelims. But I'm worried that because I didn't take the honors Gen Chem, I would start behind everyone.

Basically my question is:
1) Does taking two honors orgos with A's make a difference compared to taking two normal orgos with A's, for getting into HMS?
2) How exactly is the honors orgo harder than the normal orgo? Is it a lot more information that needs memorization, or is it more logic-heavy/mechanism-heavy? In other words, is it more about robust memory or thinking?

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[Dr panda]

I really doubt they care

 

[Lucca]

Nobody cares.

What you should take is a very institution and even professor specific question you should be asking your peers and seniors not SDN.

 

[deleted987519]

1.) Unlikely - - but either way, there is no penalty for earning A's in normal OCHEM, which is not guaranteed.
2.) No clue, never met anyone brave enough to try it.

 

[Moko]

If/when you get rejected from HMS, it's not going to be because of your OChem sequence..

You've already proven that you are academically capable from your GPA, major, and university. Now prove that you can do well on standardized tests, and make sure that your ECs are actually competitive with those who get accepted to HMS and other similarly ranked programs.

 

[Lawpy]

I wonder if I should take the honors Orgo I & II instead of normal Orgo to show the admissions committee that I'm "smart".

the best way to show this is to crush the MCAT

 

[Int'lEng]

Nobody cares.

What you should take is a very institution and even professor specific question you should be asking your peers and seniors not SDN.

Thanks for the reply! Yeah that makes sense, yet I still haven't found (or never tried to) a network of premeds at Cornell and I was hoping someone from Cornell on SDN could help. But still thanks!

 

[Int'lEng]

the best way to show this is to crush the MCAT

Lol that's actually true

 

[capriccio]

Honors orgo sure as heck didn't stop HMS from sending me that pre-II R last cycle lmao.

Take honors orgo if you're actually interested in it—my undergrad's honors orgo ended up being extremely interesting and well-taught, and I'm glad I took honors classes in general, because they were really cool academic experiences. But expect them to carry no weight in admissions.

Can't speak for Cornell's honors orgo, but mine was definitely more logic heavy.

 

[Int'lEng]

Honors orgo sure as heck didn't stop HMS from sending me that pre-II R last cycle lmao.

Take honors orgo if you're actually interested in it—my undergrad's honors orgo ended up being extremely interesting and well-taught, and I'm glad I took honors classes in general, because they were really cool academic experiences. But expect them to carry no weight in admissions.

Can't speak for Cornell's honors orgo, but mine was definitely more logic heavy.

Thanks capriccio! Do you mind explaining what you meant by "pre-II R last cycle"? Is it something like a love letter for undergraduate admissions waitlist and they still rejected you?

 

[capriccio]

Thanks capriccio! Do you mind explaining what you meant by "pre-II R last cycle"? Is it something like a love letter for undergraduate admissions waitlist and they still rejected you?

Oh no pre-II R means "pre-interview invite rejection" lol—it means I applied to HMS during the 2018-2019 medical school application cycle and was rejected without receiving an interview.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

It boggles my mind how much people care what medical school they go to. Unless your plan is to be a researcher running a lab, patients don’t care what medical school you went to. Most of them confuse it with cna/pa/nursing school. They don’t care about residency training. They don’t know what board certification or fellowship training is. I have won national awards. I’ve trained in some of the best hospitals in the country. I can’t tell you how many times people go to the non-specialist surgeon next door for their complex trauma “because dr X did my mom’s surgery” (completely unrelated and simple surgery). That is the reality. Your credentials won’t matter squat to Joe Schmo. As long as you have “Doctor” behind your name, that’s what matters, unless you want to be in niche academia. Stop torturing yourself with honors orgo— go join a sports club instead. It will do you good in the future when you’ve forgotten what the Krebs cycle is (because 99% of doctors won’t ever use orgo), but at least you won’t be morbidly obese.

 

[Lucca]

It boggles my mind how much people care what medical school they go to. Unless your plan is to be a researcher running a lab, patients don’t care what medical school you went to. Most of them confuse it with cna/pa/nursing school. They don’t care about residency training. They don’t know what board certification or fellowship training is. I have won national awards. I’ve trained in some of the best hospitals in the country. I can’t tell you how many times people go to the non-specialist surgeon next door for their complex trauma “because dr X did my mom’s surgery” (completely unrelated and simple surgery). That is the reality. Your credentials won’t matter squat to Joe Schmo. As long as you have “Doctor” behind your name, that’s what matters, unless you want to be in niche academia. Stop torturing yourself with honors orgo— go join a sports club instead. It will do you good in the future when you’ve forgotten what the Krebs cycle is (because 99% of doctors won’t ever use orgo), but at least you won’t be morbidly obese.

I like the sentiment but frequently honors courses are more fun / better taught / more leniently graded.

 

[AnMDtoB]

Also a Cornell student:

Have heard from many chem majors the honors orgo is just not a fun time (think means that are literally HALF of the regular orgo)

3570/3580 are plenty impressive - just stick with those and ace them.

Also, for what it’s worth, I had a similar opinion of 2070/2080 and felt orgo was more difficult, as do many many students - it’s just a different type of thinking

 

[sadpremed121]

It boggles my mind how much people care what medical school they go to. Unless your plan is to be a researcher running a lab, patients don’t care what medical school you went to. Most of them confuse it with cna/pa/nursing school. They don’t care about residency training. They don’t know what board certification or fellowship training is. I have won national awards. I’ve trained in some of the best hospitals in the country. I can’t tell you how many times people go to the non-specialist surgeon next door for their complex trauma “because dr X did my mom’s surgery” (completely unrelated and simple surgery). That is the reality. Your credentials won’t matter squat to Joe Schmo. As long as you have “Doctor” behind your name, that’s what matters, unless you want to be in niche academia. Stop torturing yourself with honors orgo— go join a sports club instead. It will do you good in the future when you’ve forgotten what the Krebs cycle is (because 99% of doctors won’t ever use orgo), but at least you won’t be morbidly obese.

But what if I want to be in niche academia?

 

[IgEdoc]

Med school choice is rather irrelevant to most patients. Well, a few have asked. To me, it becomes more a personal sense of pride and accomplishment, rather than what I get out of it in my career.

 

[stressedandpremed]

Harvard undergrad here. Not sure if this will help you decide, but Harvard doesn't even offer "honors" courses in the sciences and plenty of Harvard premeds get into HMS. If you're confident that you can get an A in honors orgo, I'd say go for it, but I don't think it'll really make a difference in terms of getting into HMS.

Edit: typo

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

But what if I want to be in niche academia?

Then your residency will matter more.

 

[Goro]

My profile:
Cornell Engineering (rising junior in Fall 2019)
Current GPA: 3.956. sGPA: 3.888.

I took the normal Gen CHEM 2080 and was planning to take the normal Orgo I (CHEM 3570) next semester. But now that I have included HMS in my goals, I wonder if I should take the honors Orgo I & II instead of normal Orgo to show the admissions committee that I'm "smart". My Chem2080 experience was pretty much a breeze: taking notes during lectures, doing problem sets and getting A's on the prelims. But I'm worried that because I didn't take the honors Gen Chem, I would start behind everyone.

Basically my question is:
1) Does taking two honors orgos with A's make a difference compared to taking two normal orgos with A's, for getting into HMS?
2) How exactly is the honors orgo harder than the normal orgo? Is it a lot more information that needs memorization, or is it more logic-heavy/mechanism-heavy? In other words, is it more about robust memory or thinking?

They're not going to care!

They will care about your MCAT score, though.

 

[Int'lEng]

Also a Cornell student:

Have heard from many chem majors the honors orgo is just not a fun time (think means that are literally HALF of the regular orgo)

3570/3580 are plenty impressive - just stick with those and ace them.

Also, for what it’s worth, I had a similar opinion of 2070/2080 and felt orgo was more difficult, as do many many students - it’s just a different type of thinking

Thanks for the info!
Also my next semester is going to be 20 credits of classes. But if I take honors orgo next Spring instead, I can ease down my next semester to 17 credits. So that'd be something to take into consideration too. Have you done 20 credits of classes before?

 

[AnMDtoB]

Thanks for the info!
Also my next semester is going to be 20 credits of classes. But if I take honors orgo next Spring instead, I can ease down my next semester to 17 credits. So that'd be something to take into consideration too. Have you done 20 credits of classes before?

Yep! I would say that (in my experience) the number of credits you take really does't mean anything when you're trying to figure out how intense you're semester is going to be, the specific courses are much more important. Which makes sense when you really think about it - like I took a 3 credit quantum mechanics course and a 3 credit intro to asian culture class and those *definitely* were't the same amount of work (duh), but since you're an engineer your credits are all probably pretty legit so who knows. However you think about it, I **promise** you that taking honors orgo will definitely not make your life any easier than if you took the regular level (which, PS, is a lot harder than most school's orgo classes & adcoms know that).

 

[Lucca]

But what if I want to be in niche academia?

Quadruple major in math, physics, CS and bioengineering

I am only 95% joking