the bill has passed- whats gonna happen to us?

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Lisochka

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I appologize if the topic has been discussed alreay. I am still in school, so I don't have time to go though every single thread....
Anyway, since the Health bill passed, what its gonna do to us, future and current pharmacists?

It worries me on one side because how am I gonna pay off my student debt if my sallary is going to be 30K a year....
However,on the other side- when Medicare bill passed in 1965, it increased the utilization of medical services, so medical professionals "gained"
What do you guys think?

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If it does get approved 100%, will it affect clinical pharmacists more than retail pharmacists? I've been contemplating whether or not I should go for a residency and if the health care reform will affect the salary dramatically for clinical pharmacists, as well as job availabilities, I don't think I want to waste my time doing a residency... Any input will be helpful.
 
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Bing!
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEJL2Uuv-oQ[/YOUTUBE]
listen closely at around 1:50
 
If it does get approved 100%, will it affect clinical pharmacists more than retail pharmacists? I've been contemplating whether or not I should go for a residency and if the health care reform will affect the salary dramatically for clinical pharmacists, as well as job availabilities, I don't think I want to waste my time doing a residency... Any input will be helpful.

Frankly, nobody knows quite yet.
 
Boy {spoken}: Hey, who left all this garbage lying on the steps of Congress?
Amendment {spoken}: I'm not garbage.

I'm an amendment to be
Yes, an amendment to be
And I'm hoping that they'll ratify me
There's a lot of flag burners
Who have got too much freedom
I wanna make it legal
For policemen
To beat 'em
'Cause there's limits to our liberties
'Least I hope and pray that there are
'Cause those liberal freaks go too far.

Boy: But why can't we just make a law against flag burning?

Amendment: Because that law would be unconstitutional. But if we changed the Constitution...

Boy: Then we could make all sorts of crazy laws!

Amendment: Now you're catching on!

Boy: But what if they say you're not good enough to be in the Constitution?

Amendment:
Then I'll destroy all opposition to me
And I'll make Ted Kennedy pay
If he fights back
I'll say that he's gay

Congressman: Good news, Amendment! They ratified 'ya. You're in the U.S. Constitution!

Amendment: Oh, yeah! Door's open, boys!
 
The bill includes provisions on MTM. So if you are interested in being ambulatory care clinical pharmacist, I would say this bill would give you more job opportunities. I am not sure how it would affect hospital clinical pharmacists.
 
The bill includes provisions on MTM. So if you are interested in being ambulatory care clinical pharmacist, I would say this bill would give you more job opportunities. I am not sure how it would affect hospital clinical pharmacists.

Does the bill specify MTM must be done by a pharmacist?
 
Does the bill specify MTM must be done by a pharmacist?

I don't think they MUST, but it allows for reimbursement for MTM if pharmacists do choose to provide it. It calls for MTM mostly in integrated care models (as stated before, ambulatory care) and calls for medication reconcilliation. It also supports research of MTM efficacy.
 
I don't think they MUST, but it allows for reimbursement for MTM if pharmacists do choose to provide it. It calls for MTM mostly in integrated care models (as stated before, ambulatory care) and calls for medication reconcilliation. It also supports research of MTM efficacy.

If I read correctly it says someone who is "qualified". I don't think it explains what that means.

A lot of managed care organizations are actually using LPNs, yessir 1 year vocational nurses with a minimum of 1 course of Basic Pharmacology (some vocational schools have it in 2 semesters) are equivalent to all you pharmacy students and pharmacist's 6 years of school.
 
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If my hospital could bill for every time I did a medication reconciliation, they'd be bazillionaires.

But seriously...if hospitals could start billing for the **** we do...the culture change would be unbelievable. Hospitals would be begging us to do more clinical programs. They could hire a pharmacist just to reconcile medications for each new patient if reimbursements were enough. And that would actually, legitimately save a **** ton of money in the long run for everyone from taxpayer to hospital CEO if its done right...not to mention the improved outcomes we would see.

This **** might just be great for the profession...
 
If I read correctly it says someone who is "qualified". I don't think it explains what that means.

A lot of managed care organizations are actually using LPNs, yessir 1 year vocational nurses with a minimum of 1 course of Basic Pharmacology (some vocational schools have it in 2 semesters) are equivalent to all you pharmacy students and pharmacist's 6 years of school.

You are correct!

The Medicare Part D law specified Medication Therapy Management Programs for all Part D members. How much MTM are we doing and billing for at the retail level? A key statement is MTM "May be furnished by pharmacists or other qualified providers."

http://www.cms.hhs.gov/PrescriptionDrugCovContra/Downloads/MTMFactSheet.pdf
 
If my hospital could bill for every time I did a medication reconciliation, they'd be bazillionaires.

But seriously...if hospitals could start billing for the **** we do...the culture change would be unbelievable. Hospitals would be begging us to do more clinical programs. They could hire a pharmacist just to reconcile medications for each new patient if reimbursements were enough. And that would actually, legitimately save a **** ton of money in the long run for everyone from taxpayer to hospital CEO if its done right...not to mention the improved outcomes we would see.

This **** might just be great for the profession...


So... how will this make any difference to inpatient charges/reimbursement when Medicare/Medicaid pay DRG?
 
If my hospital could bill for every time I did a medication reconciliation, they'd be bazillionaires.

But seriously...if hospitals could start billing for the **** we do...the culture change would be unbelievable. Hospitals would be begging us to do more clinical programs. They could hire a pharmacist just to reconcile medications for each new patient if reimbursements were enough. And that would actually, legitimately save a **** ton of money in the long run for everyone from taxpayer to hospital CEO if its done right...not to mention the improved outcomes we would see.

This **** might just be great for the profession...

If the bill passes the Senate and passes again in the House and Senate after they stitch it together...

It will do a lot of things. Not one of them will be good for any healthcare profession. Rest assured. We will be in a world of hurt if this thing passes. Forget the MTM dribble that is written into it and look at what it's going to do to the economy from a macro- level.

All of it equals to cutting costs/reimbursements and rationing. You don't add 50 million Americans to the health care industry with no increase in doctors/pharmacists/nurses without paying dearly.

This rush to pass this thing is going to hurt us very very badly. And by us, I mean all 320 million of us residing in this country.
 
If the bill passes the Senate and passes again in the House and Senate after they stitch it together...

It will do a lot of things. Not one of them will be good for any healthcare profession. Rest assured. We will be in a world of hurt if this thing passes. Forget the MTM dribble that is written into it and look at what it's going to do to the economy from a macro- level.

All of it equals to cutting costs/reimbursements and rationing. You don't add 50 million Americans to the health care industry with no increase in doctors/pharmacists/nurses without paying dearly.

This rush to pass this thing is going to hurt us very very badly. And by us, I mean all 320 million of us residing in this country.

Do you have any proof for these statements or at least some type of reasoning?
 
All of it equals to cutting costs/reimbursements and rationing. You don't add 50 million Americans to the health care industry with no increase in doctors/pharmacists/nurses without paying dearly.

:eek:
 
Well, this is solely my opinion, but this bill and any future bills on healthcare reform will benefit us without much of a pay cut. The government is trying to save money on healthcare. So what is the most logical thing to do? Get people that can help pts. at a lower cost to help them. This means relying on specialist MDs less and relying more on pharmacists, PAs, nurse practicioners, etc...

This also means that we will truly have to show our value, focusing less on dispensing and more on MTM.
 
If the bill passes the Senate and passes again in the House and Senate after they stitch it together...

It will do a lot of things. Not one of them will be good for any healthcare profession. Rest assured. We will be in a world of hurt if this thing passes. Forget the MTM dribble that is written into it and look at what it's going to do to the economy from a macro- level.

All of it equals to cutting costs/reimbursements and rationing. You don't add 50 million Americans to the health care industry with no increase in doctors/pharmacists/nurses without paying dearly.

This rush to pass this thing is going to hurt us very very badly. And by us, I mean all 320 million of us residing in this country.

Conservatives are overreacting. Just like the liberals did to everything when Bush was in office.

This is one of the things I agree with the leftists on. But not necessarily because of the social theory behind the stuff...but because, simply, if reform is not introduced, they estimate that healthcare will cost up to 20% of GDP by 2017....25% by 2025...and the government would spend 7% on medicaid up from 4% today. Which should scare the piss out of you much, much more than simply adding like 12% more people to the system now...but what do I know...I don't listen to Rush Limbaugh...
 
Conservatives are overreacting. Just like the liberals did to everything when Bush was in office.

This is one of the things I agree with the leftists on. But not necessarily because of the social theory behind the stuff...but because, simply, if reform is not introduced, they estimate that healthcare will cost up to 20% of GDP by 2017....25% by 2025...and the government would spend 7% on medicaid up from 4% today. Which should scare the piss out of you much, much more than simply adding like 12% more people to the system now...but what do I know...I don't listen to Rush Limbaugh...

Can you give me any way that the government can add 50 million people to the health care industry plus the illegal immigrants that will be covered (12-20 million) and DECREASE health care costs for the country? How do you add an additional 20 percent to the health care system without rationing what you don't have (human capital, resources, space, financial capital).

Are you forgetting the entire purpose of this bill, despite what Barack Obama says about getting everyone insured, is to REDUCE the costs of healthcare for Americans.

Now imagine what it costs now and what it will cost the government (you) to pay for an additional 60-75 million Americans and illegals.

Also, little side note to those that own pharmacies, the House bill is going to be taxing your socks off if you make more than 500,000 a year. And any successful independent easily clears that by a several million. Now consider the consequences for you small business independents (home health, retail, specialized, etc.).

Can anyone out there explain how this is going to be beneficial for pharmacy from an economical sense? Please take into consideration all of those affected by this. Insurance companies, patients, physicians, independent owners, etc.
 
Can you give me any way that the government can add 50 million people to the health care industry plus the illegal immigrants that will be covered (12-20 million) and DECREASE health care costs for the country? How do you add an additional 20 percent to the health care system without rationing what you don't have (human capital, resources, space, financial capital).

Are you forgetting the entire purpose of this bill, despite what Barack Obama says about getting everyone insured, is to REDUCE the costs of healthcare for Americans.

Now imagine what it costs now and what it will cost the government (you) to pay for an additional 60-75 million Americans and illegals.

Also, little side note to those that own pharmacies, the House bill is going to be taxing your socks off if you make more than 500,000 a year. And any successful independent easily clears that by a several million. Now consider the consequences for you small business independents (home health, retail, specialized, etc.).

Can anyone out there explain how this is going to be beneficial for pharmacy from an economical sense? Please take into consideration all of those affected by this. Insurance companies, patients, physicians, independent owners, etc.

For the record, the bill says that not a single illegal will be insured.
Again, retail might suffer a bit, but I think clinical pharmacists will be more in demand, since the bill has provisions for MTM included. We will have to transform from providers of drugs to providers of information and patient care.
 
Can you give me any way that the government can add 50 million people to the health care industry plus the illegal immigrants that will be covered (12-20 million) and DECREASE health care costs for the country? How do you add an additional 20 percent to the health care system without rationing what you don't have (human capital, resources, space, financial capital).

It will probably cost about the same, maybe a tad more. How you save money is avoiding costly morbidity. We call it preventative care. And our country is probably the worst country on the ENTIRE PLANET at providing and emphasizing the importance of primary preventative care. This will save money in the long run as there will be less major, costly events. Plus, the money saved in red tape and billing is estimated to be enormous. Administration costs of the US system are by far the ighest in the world. That's just wasted money.[/quote]


Also, little side note to those that own pharmacies, the House bill is going to be taxing your socks off if you make more than 500,000 a year.

Very few pharmacist make that much. And if I did, I wouldn't give a **** if they taxed me 40%. It's not like we work that hard.

And any successful independent easily clears that by a several million.

Yeah...I'm gonna go ahead and doubt that one. After overhead and salaries...they really don't make that much...the lucky few with a chain of stores might make that much. Though they will probably be hosed, true...but the death of independent pharmacy has been long coming...and it's the private sector's fault...

Can anyone out there explain how this is going to be beneficial for pharmacy from an economical sense? Please take into consideration all of those affected by this. Insurance companies, patients, physicians, independent owners, etc.

The vast majority of pharmacist work for someone. They do not bill the system and are paid based upon their market value. Add 15% more people. That's 15% more demand...15% more jobs (in theory...prolly less than that with automation...)...more jobs for the same amount of people...stores/hospitals compete for workers...and so forth...
 
I appologize if the topic has been discussed alreay. I am still in school, so I don't have time to go though every single thread....
Anyway, since the Health bill passed, what its gonna do to us, future and current pharmacists?

It worries me on one side because how am I gonna pay off my student debt if my sallary is going to be 30K a year....
However,on the other side- when Medicare bill passed in 1965, it increased the utilization of medical services, so medical professionals "gained"
What do you guys think?

What the hell are you talking about? No health care bill has been passed by Congress.

EDIT:

Nevermind, he beat me to it.

didn't you ever see Schoolhouse Rock? It has to go through the Senate, too.
 
An ideological parrot versus the enthusiast....who will blink first?
 
I will tell you what is going to happen. As told to me by a 90 year old crazy ass old lady yesterday. And I quote "Obama wants to kill all old people with his new health care bill."

So my friends that is what is going to happen. Obama led death squads to kill all old people and 100% income tax on the rest of us to pay for it. We are all going to die!
 
It will probably cost about the same, maybe a tad more. How you save money is avoiding costly morbidity. We call it preventative care. And our country is probably the worst country on the ENTIRE PLANET at providing and emphasizing the importance of primary preventative care. This will save money in the long run as there will be less major, costly events. Plus, the money saved in red tape and billing is estimated to be enormous. Administration costs of the US system are by far the ighest in the world. That's just wasted money.




Very few pharmacist make that much. And if I did, I wouldn't give a **** if they taxed me 40%. It's not like we work that hard.



Yeah...I'm gonna go ahead and doubt that one. After overhead and salaries...they really don't make that much...the lucky few with a chain of stores might make that much. Though they will probably be hosed, true...but the death of independent pharmacy has been long coming...and it's the private sector's fault...



The vast majority of pharmacist work for someone. They do not bill the system and are paid based upon their market value. Add 15% more people. That's 15% more demand...15% more jobs (in theory...prolly less than that with automation...)...more jobs for the same amount of people...stores/hospitals compete for workers...and so forth...

How are you a pharmacist and not know that successful independents make a couple million or more? That's what gets taxed. Of course they don't take home that much. At the end of the day, they're going to take home a little over a hundred grand IF that much.

So yes, it will greatly affect independents.

And by the way, you don't add jobs to the health care industry when you add 50 million peole to the system all at once. We can't create health care jobs instantaneously to support the 50 million we will add to the system. You can't automate the jobs of ER physicians, surgeons, and nurses.

We already have a shortage as it is. And are you forgetting once again that we are trying to cut the costs that we already have without adding 15%. 15% sounds so minimal but it's 50 million Americans we are talking about. There will be rationing. You have given no logic as for how we can add 50 mil to our system, save costs, and have no immediate increase in human capital in terms of health care personnel. I'm still waiting for your reasoning on that small but very important fact.
 
It will probably cost about the same, maybe a tad more. How you save money is avoiding costly morbidity. We call it preventative care. And our country is probably the worst country on the ENTIRE PLANET at providing and emphasizing the importance of primary preventative care. This will save money in the long run as there will be less major, costly events. Plus, the money saved in red tape and billing is estimated to be enormous. Administration costs of the US system are by far the ighest in the world. That's just wasted money.

We had a town hall meeting the other day at FAMU COPPS and the doctors were talking about how important preventative care is. After the meeting, they served FRIED CHICKEN......Oh, the irony.....Wait, is that actually irony? After fighting with my roommate about that Alanis Morissitte song I don't even know anymore.......


Okay, back to SSRIs, TCAs and any other type of CNS drug you can think of!
 
How are you a pharmacist and not know that successful independents make a couple million or more? That's what gets taxed. Of course they don't take home that much. At the end of the day, they're going to take home a little over a hundred grand IF that much.

They don't make that much. I personally know several people that own their own pharmacies. None of them make that much. In fact, one of them just gave up, sold his store's clientele to a new CVS that was built down the street, and is making more as a CVS employee than the owner of an independent pharmacy.

If you know a pharmacist or two that clears over a million dollar, they are very fortunate. And they are not taxed 90%. The top income taxation rate is less than 40%. Social security taxation is capped at the first $100,000 earned. And in Texas there is no income tax. If they can make 7 figures and barely come out with $100k a year, they are doing something wrong and should hire a tax lawyer.


And by the way, you don't add jobs to the health care industry when you add 50 million peole to the system all at once. We can't create health care jobs instantaneously to support the 50 million we will add to the system. You can't automate the jobs of ER physicians, surgeons, and nurses.

No...but the jobs will lag behind the legislation not as much as you'd imagine. If the CVSs of the world knew today that 45 million new people with drug cards were going to show up, they would start planning tomorrow and start hiring in line with the new legislation. Those retail pharmacies are schemy mofos. Though my hospital wouldn't hire anyone. We added an entire wing to the hospital and my average census is now at 200. Still only one RPh in the evenings...lmao...

Now with practitioners, they will have to squeeze for a few years...but unless you are content with the way things are, at some point we have to strain for a few years to make things work. That's what happens when you try to fix a broken system. Like I said before - you have two choices; a little pain now, or devastation later. Let's leave it alone and see how things are when healthcare is 25% of GDP.

We already have a shortage as it is.

No we don't. That's quoting Dean Dipiro at USC. The new schools opening are quickly eliminating open jobs. The economy isn't helping. There are new grads all over the country that can't find jobs...many post on here.

And are you forgetting once again that we are trying to cut the costs that we already have without adding 15%. 15% sounds so minimal but it's 50 million Americans we are talking about.

15% is 15%. I think the system could handle an additional 15% without breaking.

There will be rationing.

Isn't that kinda what we do now, anyway? Really, wtf kind of bull**** thinking is that? Some people don't get healthcare as is. Others do - ergo, it is "rationed". I swear to god, that is the lamest buzz word of the damned century thus far. And our healthcare system could withstand much more stress being as though I can get appointments with a physician in 5 or 6 days. Let's add 15% more time to that...oh no, I might have to wait 7 days...


You have given no logic as for how we can add 50 mil to our system, save costs, and have no immediate increase in human capital in terms of health care personnel. I'm still waiting for your reasoning on that small but very important fact.

Well, I told you how it would save costs. You're just too predictably up Rush Limbaugh's ass to read something that flies in the face of your conservative ideology to recognize it. I know you are a conservative dittohead because you use words like "rationing." This alone makes me want to ignore you. But I like hearing the liberal/conservative sheep blather on like they are reading from some sort of groupthink script. Do continue...
 
We already have a shortage as it is. And are you forgetting once again that we are trying to cut the costs that we already have without adding 15%. 15% sounds so minimal but it's 50 million Americans we are talking about. There will be rationing. You have given no logic as for how we can add 50 mil to our system, save costs, and have no immediate increase in human capital in terms of health care personnel. I'm still waiting for your reasoning on that small but very important fact.

Preventative care can do wonders.

About 90% of the health care costs in America are associated with heart problems. About 90% of THOSE problems could have been prevented. That frees up about 80% of resources. Boom, there's your 15%. Like someone said earlier in the thread, America is pathetically not preventative-care driven, and it really needs to turn towards that way. There's no reason for America to spend the MOST money on health care, and for America to have lower life expectancies than other countries spending much much much less.
 
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Just a hypothetical thought but would you guys object if the government completely took over health care and turned doctors and pharmacists into government employees? And if so, why?
 
They don't make that much. I personally know several people that own their own pharmacies. None of them make that much. In fact, one of them just gave up, sold his store's clientele to a new CVS that was built down the street, and is making more as a CVS employee than the owner of an independent pharmacy.

I agree. Anecdotal or not, my father did the exact same thing when he used to own a pharmacy. Although he did not go to work for CVS.
 
Americans are so used to entitlement. If you have money and willing to pay for your med, I'm fine. I have issue with people who drink coke, eat fries then blame health care cost. They want their cost to be the same as healthy ones. Health insurance should be like car insurance. I'm mature and responsible so I am not stupid to pay as much premium as youngsters. I'm so fed up with what so-called healthcare for everyone. I don't want to work my ass off in the pharmacy to subsidize others. It's unfair. There's nothing such a free lunch. If the gov wants to cut cost, cut those Medicaid leeches off.
 
Americans are so used to entitlement. If you have money and willing to pay for your med, I'm fine. I have issue with people who drink coke, eat fries then blame health care cost. They want their cost to be the same as healthy ones. Health insurance should be like car insurance. I'm mature and responsible so I am not stupid to pay as much premium as youngsters. I'm so fed up with what so-called healthcare for everyone. I don't want to work my ass off in the pharmacy to subsidize others. It's unfair. There's nothing such a free lunch. If the gov wants to cut cost, cut those Medicaid leeches off.

Americans are so used to entitlement because of the generosity of the upper class. Why is that middle/low class people always complain about medicaid and medicare as programs that steal from them? Hypocrites.



But I tell you what, when you find out you have leukemia or some rare disease who are you going to complain to when you can't afford chemotherapy?
 
When I was a child, I would have died if it weren't for Medicaid. Thank you for wanting me dead.

So now you want to extend for more freeloaders? That's why I said cut the leeches. I'm happy that you get out of the system. But think about it, you were able to get out how come a lot more could not? It's simple, free stuff so people milk it to death.
 
We already have a shortage as it is. And are you forgetting once again that we are trying to cut the costs that we already have without adding 15%. 15% sounds so minimal but it's 50 million Americans we are talking about. There will be rationing. You have given no logic as for how we can add 50 mil to our system, save costs, and have no immediate increase in human capital in terms of health care personnel. I'm still waiting for your reasoning on that small but very important fact.

Shortage? in your dreams maybe. There is already a surplus of pharmacists in all the nice-to-live-at-areas of the country.
 
So now you want to extend for more freeloaders? That's why I said cut the leeches. I'm happy that you get out of the system. But think about it, you were able to get out how come a lot more could not? It's simple, free stuff so people milk it to death.


+1

Once again, get a job pay for your own crap! :laugh:
 
Americans are so used to entitlement. If you have money and willing to pay for your med, I'm fine. I have issue with people who drink coke, eat fries then blame health care cost. They want their cost to be the same as healthy ones. Health insurance should be like car insurance. I'm mature and responsible so I am not stupid to pay as much premium as youngsters. I'm so fed up with what so-called healthcare for everyone. I don't want to work my ass off in the pharmacy to subsidize others. It's unfair. There's nothing such a free lunch. If the gov wants to cut cost, cut those Medicaid leeches off. (not just medicaid leeches, don't forget the welfare, food stamp, and all the other leeches on the list! LOL...Without those losers the nation would not be in so much DEBT in the first place! )


You sound just like me. I think health insurance should be the same as car insurance. Hey, don't f*ck up and you won't have to worry about paying the high health or car insurance cost. EVERYONE is responsible for EVERYTHING that happens to them in life PERIOD. Don't f*ck up and you won't have any **** to clean up later on. :thumbup:
 
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You sound just like me. I think health insurance should be the same as car insurance. Hey, don't f*ck up and you won't have to worry about paying the high health or car insurance cost. EVERYONE is responsible for EVERYTHING that happens to them in life PERIOD. Don't f*ck up and you won't have any **** to clean up later on. :thumbup:

Not debating regarding the bill, but there are plenty o'stuff that can go wrong w/your health that you would not be responsible for. Things that happen to very young people who have not even had a chance to f*ck up yet to cause it...just saying..
 
So now you want to extend for more freeloaders? That's why I said cut the leeches. I'm happy that you get out of the system. But think about it, you were able to get out how come a lot more could not? It's simple, free stuff so people milk it to death.

I was fortunate enough to be born with some semblance of intelligence. Most people are caught in the cycle of hopelessness and don't have the ability to understand math and science well enough to get a scholarship to the local college like I did. It's easy to sit there in your suburbany whitewashed universe and point the finger at poor people, but it isn't that simple. If you've never lived in a situation where you don't know where you are going to live next month depending on what mood your slumlord is in, then its hard to really understand the psychology of hopelessness.
 
I was fortunate enough to be born with some semblance of intelligence. Most people are caught in the cycle of hopelessness and don't have the ability to understand math and science well enough to get a scholarship to the local college like I did. It's easy to sit there in your suburbany whitewashed universe and point the finger at poor people, but it isn't that simple. If you've never lived in a situation where you don't know where you are going to live next month depending on what mood your slumlord is in, then its hard to really understand the psychology of hopelessness.


Hopelessness only applies when you can't control the situation. These people are given food, free financial aid, subsidized housing, subsizided utilities, free childcare. They just don't want to leave that warm blanket from uncle Sam. You don't have to be a smart kid to succeed. You only need to be determinant and the will to do. You have all of them and you succeed, majority of wellfare leeches don't. I understand you feel offended that it seems I don't care about poor people. In fact I came from poor family, too. I went to flip burger, then jumped to Worst Buy. Heck I was able to do that, and got healthcare coverage for myself. I was not as smart as other people, but I maintain my GPA over C and that's all required for financial aid. I also borrow sub and unsub loans. That is the true American spirit: earn your money by working hard.
Don't you ever tell me that I don't understand poverty. I live in it and I hate the way the system set up and people taking advantage of it is disgusting. And don't pull the race card, it's absurb.
 
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Hopelessness only applies when you can't control the situation. These people are given food, free financial aid, subsidized housing, subsizided utilities, free childcare. They just don't want to leave that warm blanket from uncle Sam. You don't have to be a smart kid to succeed. You only need to be determinant and the will to do. You have all of them and you succeed, majority of wellfare leeches don't. I understand you feel offended that it seems I don't care about poor people. In fact I came from poor family, too. But the way the system set up and people taking advantage of it is disgusting.

People taking advantage of the system is sick. I hate the thought of even one free-loader getting a single dime of my money. But some people genuinely need a little help getting back on there feet. It's a complicated topic. In a perfect world there would be a way to weed out people who only want a free ride from people who are working to improve there lives. I would prefer to ere on the side of caution and give a few bad apples aid then to cut too much and someone who needs help up doesn't get the help they need. And of course there the children who are innocent in youth but are indoctrinated into the welfare system so early in life that they grow up learning how to work the system. Makes me sad. I think they are the minority though; most people want to be successful in life. (More successful than living on welfare I mean) I just try to think of all the people whose lives are improved with just a little help at just the right time from Uncle Sam. Makes me happy.
 
Hopelessness only applies when you can't control the situation. These people are given food, free financial aid, subsidized housing, subsizided utilities, free childcare. They just don't want to leave that warm blanket from uncle Sam.

The hell are you talking about...my parents had jobs. My pops worked at a grocery store. My mom did menial minimum wage office work. They put in their 40 hours. They did they best they could given their means.

You don't have to be a smart kid to succeed. You only need to be determinant and the will to do.

If you grow up in real poverty...yeah, you pretty much have to. Like I said...you've clearly never experienced what you are talking about. Nobody wants to be poor. Do some abuse the system? Sure. Some people on welfare drive Hummers. They are called drug dealers' girlfriends. And the sad thing is that they paint the picture of poverty in the US to idiots from the affluent suburbs that would be the same "losers" they despise had they come out of a different vagina.


You have all of them and you succeed, majority of wellfare leeches don't. I understand you feel offended that it seems I don't care about poor people. In fact I came from poor family, too. I went to flip burger, then jumped to Worst Buy. Heck I was able to do that, and got healthcare coverage for myself.

That's not poor. Poor is living in a dilapidated trailer with no dry wall and plaster particles you breath in your entire childhood giving you severe asthma, a front door that was beaten in by the cops 3 times and is held together with duct tape and plastic draw ties, one sink with running water...and all of this mostly because your crack addicted stepfather who beats you every day spends any money he might have on his addiction, leaving you hungry and hopeless...and unable to fathom a world that is hospitable to you. THAT is hopelessness. That is poverty...that's life in Appalachia. Those are the people that can't break out. If you think a kid in that situation just effortless breaks away from that ****, you are nuts. Oh, wah, you had to work at Best Buy. Spare me. ****, I wish I had a ride to Best Buy. Just like every other suburban kid that thinks they are "poor." Everyone else...the suburban "poor"...there really isn't as much of a cycle of hopelessness. They tend to do well, even though they were raised on *gasp* medicaid. Jesus ****ing Christ, judging people on the complete random ass luck of the draw that is the environment they are raised in...seriously...

I was not as smart as other people, but I maintain my GPA over C and that's all required for financial aid. I also borrow sub and unsub loans. That is the true American spirit: earn your money by working hard.

You didn't earn that money. Federal subsidization laws that give banks incentive to loan students money gave you that money, you pinko commie.


Don't you ever tell me that I don't understand poverty.

You don't understand poverty. At least, you don't understand the cycle of hopelessness...hell, clearly you don't if you think just anybody can break out of any situation their environment puts them it. That's f'ing ridiculous...

I live in it and I hate the way the system set up and people taking advantage of it is disgusting.

Bull****. You were probably raised in a damn mansion.

And don't pull the race card, it's absurb.

Who the eff pulled out the race card?
 
That's not poor. Poor is living in a dilapidated trailer with no dry wall and plaster particles you breath in your entire childhood giving you severe asthma, a front door that was beaten in by the cops 3 times and is held together with duct tape and plastic draw ties, one sink with running water...and all of this mostly because your crack addicted stepfather who beats you every day spends any money he might have on his addiction, leaving you hungry and hopeless...and unable to fathom a world that is hospitable to you. THAT is hopelessness. That is poverty...that's life in Appalachia. Those are the people that can't break out. If you think a kid in that situation just effortless breaks away from that ****, you are nuts. Oh, wah, you had to work at Best Buy. Spare me. ****, I wish I had a ride to Best Buy. Just like every other suburban kid that thinks they are "poor." Everyone else...the suburban "poor"...there really isn't as much of a cycle of hopelessness. They tend to do well, even though they were raised on *gasp* medicaid. Jesus ****ing Christ, judging people on the complete random ass luck of the draw that is the environment they are raised in...seriously...

:eek: I had no idea you had it that bad WVU...and I thought I had it bad when I first moved to the USA and had to share a bedroom with my little sister b/c my parents couldn't afford a 3 bedroom apartment at the time! :oops:

I am so glad you are doing so well now. SDN would not be the same without you! Hopfully everyone in your family is doing well too! :)
 
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Health insurance is a right that every person should have. To argue against that is just naive.
 
funny....it will wither away at the senate
 
The hell are you talking about...my parents had jobs. My pops worked at a grocery store. My mom did menial minimum wage office work. They put in their 40 hours. They did they best they could given their means.
If you were to read my thread carefully, I said to cut the "leeches." Instead, you made false accusation, do the name-calling. You go to the extreme and ignore what the majority of the problem is. Healthcare is like a pool, you can't fill it with taxes and at the same time drain it with leaky pipes. Think about it twice before you use foul language. I don't know how you were educated, but I take the high road and will leave this disccussion.
 
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