The ultimate COVID thread

[Ezekiel2517]

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NEJM: Failing the Test - The Tragic Data Gap Undermining the U.S. Pandemic Response
"That the US is failing such a simple test of its capacity to protect public health is shocking"

https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMp2014836?articleTools=true

 

[deleted87051]

Even with robust testing, the S. Korea method won't work here. Look at the public backlash just from the shelter in place orders. Can you imagine if the government said they were going to start contract tracing and forced quarantines.



Meanwhile, in my community we've got a 5% asymptomatic positive rate and our hospitalizations are in the single digits.

And there are people who are asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic who are testing positive for 50+ days. The ones I’ve heard of are civic minded and self quarantining but many others won’t quarantine themselves for that long.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

And there are people who are asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic who are testing positive for 50+ days. The ones I’ve heard of are civic minded and self quarantining but many others won’t quarantine themselves for that long.

Around 40% of the patients I send for COVID testing refuse to get it once they get to the testing site when they learn they'll have to quarantine for 2 days while waiting for results

 

[CheGuevaraMD]

Even with robust testing, the S. Korea method won't work here. Look at the public backlash just from the shelter in place orders. Can you imagine if the government said they were going to start contract tracing and forced quarantines.



Meanwhile, in my community we've got a 5% asymptomatic positive rate and our hospitalizations are in the single digits.

Then use the police or national guard to forcibly detain the infected? Not sure why the health of my parents or grandparents has to be threatened because some idiot Americans can't stay inside when sick for a few weeks.

 

[deleted162650]

Then use the police or national guard to forcibly detain the infected? Not sure why the health of my parents or grandparents has to be threatened because some idiot Americans can't stay inside when sick for a few weeks.

Username checks out.

 

[We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes]

Frankly, I prefer having conversations with dumb people. They tend to be more interested in honestly talking than buffing shoulder chips.

Your tolerance far outstrips mine haha. I can't even tolerate the car doing 40 mph in the far left interstate lane with their left blinker on for the past 10 minutes, let alone have an actual conversation with them.

 

[We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes]

I know everyone loves to bash Trump but are you guys aware of this?

At a NY nursing home forced to take COVID-19 patients, 24 residents have died

“It’s reckless and careless,” said the granddaughter of a 96-year-old man whose family withdrew him from a Long Island nursing home.

www.nbcnews.com

New York Sent Recovering Coronavirus Patients to Nursing Homes: ‘It Was a Fatal Error’

The state reversed its policy after mounting criticism and deaths. The mandate is part of broader scrutiny of weaknesses at long-term care facilities that have made them hot spots for Covid-19.

www.wsj.com

It's sad that for political reasons stories like this only appear on one network. It's why you HAVE TO watch both Fox and whatever you choose of the 9800 anti-Fox outlets. Otherwise, right or left, you are sitting comfortably and ignorantly in your cozy lil echo chamber.

 

[deleted87051]

It's sad that for political reasons stories like this only appear on one network. It's why you HAVE TO watch both Fox and whatever you choose of the 9800 anti-Fox outlets. Otherwise, right or left, you are sitting comfortably and ignorantly in your cozy lil echo chamber.

You realize the links are NBC news and WSJ, right? But keep your conservative persecution complex.

 

[We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes]

Their ability to test/trace/isolate is the reason S.Korea has been successful and is the only reason they have been able to keep their economy open this entire time.

To be clear, are you advocating South Korea's methods? They use forced electronic surveillance and government removal from your house. If this were a virus like in the movie Contagion, I'm willing to go there. For Covid probably not, and regardless you would start a revolution, literally, in America if you tried the China/South Korea methods here at present.

As for all this feel good talk of an army of tracers etc, that's sounds like a giant clown show. We're going to train a bunch of randoms over a few months at a huge cost to do an impossible job. Without the electronic means how would they trace those 90 people at the club? Short answer, they wouldn't until those symptomatic of the 90 showed up on their own to get tests... which defeats the entire purpose of tracing.

I'm just the messenger. In America with this disease I think you have zero chance of performing the methods of tracing necessary to make tracing on this grand scale of significant benefit.

 

[We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes]

You realize the links are NBC news and WSJ, right?

Do you really think the mainstream cable shows are going to hammer Cuomo night after night more than 1/100th of the pounding Trump would receive for this? Surely you jest.

I find that sad. The Founders envisioned these poundings by the press for the same offense being equal regardless of party affiliation.

 

[Lawpy]

It's sad that for political reasons stories like this only appear on one network. It's why you HAVE TO watch both Fox and whatever you choose of the 9800 anti-Fox outlets. Otherwise, right or left, you are sitting comfortably and ignorantly in your cozy lil echo chamber.

SDN, Reddit and social media are addicted to bashing Trump. They also worship Cuomo and view him as a legend even when he's spreading the disease and rapidly increasing the death toll with completely idiotic policies, like forcing nursing homes to take in recovered covid patients.

Trump says dumb stuff but I absolutely hate Cuomo a lot more.

 

[Spikebd]

SDN, Reddit and social media are addicted to bashing Trump. They also worship Cuomo and view him as a legend even when he's spreading the disease and rapidly increasing the death toll with completely idiotic policies, like forcing nursing homes to take in recovered covid patients.

Trump says dumb stuff but I absolutely hate Cuomo a lot more.

SDN used to be a lot better. It oddly and unfortunately devolved into basically a Reddit subforum around 2016. Maybe some of us can make SDN great again
🤣

 

[Spikebd]

There's a corollary to that - people with lower levels of education often think people with higher levels of education aren't smart or don't really know anything.

I often, often encounter people who certainly aren't dumb but for one reason or another haven't done any academic work beyond high school. Many are successful in trades, or the military, or have otherwise carved out solid blue-collar lives. They're not dumb, or lazy, but their contempt for education and the educated is palpable. They write words like "exspurts" and "educashun" with just open disdain for people with degrees who speak about things related to their area of expertise. It's their way of saying I'm just as smart as them and I don't need a degree to prove anything.

They mention how often those high-falootin' meteorologists get the weather forecast wrong and then skew off into some nonsense about epidemiologists are just "guessing" about COVID-19 with coin-toss accuracy. They say things like "just because they have degrees doesn't mean they're smart" almost as if they feel a need to be defensive about their lack of a degree. Which they totally could've done, if they had wanted to. But degrees don't mean anything so they didn't want to. School of hard knocks is enough.

Frankly, I prefer having conversations with dumb people. They tend to be more interested in honestly talking than buffing shoulder chips.

there’s also a lot of people who I’d describe as highly educated who believe Greta Thunberg’s opinion matters. Why do they believe her? Because CNN, a trusted American institution, told them.

 

[Lawpy]

View attachment 306442 there’s also a lot of people who I’d describe as highly educated who believe Greta Thunberg’s opinion matters. Why do they believe her? Because CNN, a trusted American institution, told them.

its a little sad that covid 19 has done far more to help the environment and planet than whatever environmentalists were doing for decades

 

[vector2]

its a little sad that covid 19 has done far more to help the environment and planet than whatever environmentalists were doing for decades

Come again?

Environmentalist: "Climate change is a problem according the vast, vast, vast majority of scientists. Politicians and corporations need to take it seriously and reduce the amount of GHG emissions from cars, power plants, and industries.

Climate denier: "Nope. Global warming is a Chinese hoax invented to destroy the US economy. Also, vaccines cause autism."

Environmentalist: "Maybe we need a top down federal legislative approach because deniers and corporations just aren't getting it."

Climate denier: *loses mind* "Ahhhhhhhhh that's communism! The free market will solve it if it's really a problem!"

Corporation: "Yea! The free market will solve it! Also, if you don't mind, please keep the corporate welfare spigot for oil companies flowing freely while I spend billions of dollars convincing idiots that climate change is a hoax so I can make more $. "


*Deadly virus strikes. People are literally forced to close down the highest sources of pollution and automobile driving also plummets. Air quality improves dramatically. Satellite pictures of the atmosphere have not looked like this in a generation*


Lawper: "Haha, stupid environmentalists."

 

[Lawpy]

Come again?

Environmentalist: "Climate change is a problem according the vast, vast, vast majority of scientists. Politicians and corporations need to take it seriously and reduce the amount of GHG emissions from cars, power plants, and industries.

Climate denier: "Nope. Global warming is a Chinese hoax invented to destroy the US economy. Also, vaccines cause autism."

Environmentalist: "Maybe we need a top down federal legislative approach because deniers and corporations just aren't getting it."

Climate denier: *loses mind* "Ahhhhhhhhh that's communism! The free market will solve it if it's really a problem!"

Corporation: "Yea! The free market will solve it! Also, if you don't mind, please keep the corporate welfare spigot for oil companies flowing freely while I spend billions of dollars convincing idiots that climate change is a hoax so I can make more $. "


*Deadly virus strikes. People are literally forced to close down the highest sources of pollution and automobile driving also plummets. Air quality improves dramatically. Satellite pictures of the atmosphere have not looked like this in a generation*


Lawper: "Haha, stupid environmentalists."

The point is environmentalists are barely effective in forcing large scale changes needed to stop global warming (see the climate agreements that countries have signed but barely care about). If you want to blame other parties for stalling them, go ahead, but a few months of covid 19 had shown governments across the world that the planet can take care of itself very well.

 

[Mman]

The point is environmentalists are barely effective in forcing large scale changes needed to stop global warming (see the climate agreements that countries have signed but barely care about). If you want to blame other parties for stalling them, go ahead, but a few months of covid 19 had shown governments across the world that the planet can take care of itself very well.

so we should rely on the planet to kill off enough humans to take care of itself? Considering we are the target it seems that would be a bad idea for us.

 

[Lawpy]

so we should rely on the planet to kill off enough humans to take care of itself? Considering we are the target it seems that would be a bad idea for us.

No if anything, i think we should use the covid lessons to force large scale industry changes where we replace oil markets with green friendly markets. And also ban wet markets and illegal animal trade worldwide.

 

[d9sccr]

I know everyone loves to bash Trump but are you guys aware of this?

At a NY nursing home forced to take COVID-19 patients, 24 residents have died

“It’s reckless and careless,” said the granddaughter of a 96-year-old man whose family withdrew him from a Long Island nursing home.

www.nbcnews.com

New York Sent Recovering Coronavirus Patients to Nursing Homes: ‘It Was a Fatal Error’

The state reversed its policy after mounting criticism and deaths. The mandate is part of broader scrutiny of weaknesses at long-term care facilities that have made them hot spots for Covid-19.

www.wsj.com

Yes. It’s why I rejected your notion of Trump ever having a high approval rating. Cuomo has handled this at least as bad as Trump and has/had an approval rating in the 70s. Neither one of them are worthy of any exemplification. Just some examples of his differentiating leadership:

Last I saw, estimates are that more than half of all NY’s deaths are from nursing homes. The real numbers aren’t known at this point. There are reports that at least some of the nursing home patients that die in hospitals are not being classified as nursing home deaths. For all intensive purposes, it seems like those should absolutely be attributable to nursing homes.

NY has literally seeded the majority of states not on the west coast. There’s a study from this past week detailing the Europe -> NY -> rest of US spread.

Until last week, they literally weren’t cleaning the subways in any enhanced manner. Now, it’s done once a day. So, you know, that first ride you’re probably okay. Given that we knew coronavirus could survive on surfaces in a cruise ship in April, that seems like an excellent decision.

Their individual press conferences also contained near identical information down to the whole “missing masks” stuff. Cuomo is obviously much more polished, but the media coverage for his mess is just astounding.

 

[vector2]

). If you want to blame other parties for stalling them, go ahead,

Uh yeah, that's what I just did. You realize we live in a democratic republic, right? One filled with very stupid people who also get a say, including the president who is a climate denier.

Environmentalists are not dictators who can impose their will, and they're not magicians either. To make matters worse, their aims cost money in the short run while saving probably trillions in the long run. Politicians don't go for things like that because they're incredibly short sighted. Climate accords aren't magic either, and they're especially not helpful when the premier economic superpower drops out of the most important one.

Long story short, your criticism of environmentalists is as hollow as it is unwarranted.

 

[Lawpy]

Uh yeah, that's what I just did. You realize we live in a democratic republic, right? One filled with very stupid people who also get a say, including the president who is a climate denier.

Environmentalists are not dictators who can impose their will, and they're not magicians either. To make matters worse, their aims cost money in the short run while saving probably trillions in the long run. Politicians don't go for things like that because they're incredibly short sighted. Climate accords aren't magic either, and they're especially not helpful when the premier economic superpower drops out of the most important one.

Long story short, your criticism of environmentalists is as hollow as it is unwarranted.

Except some democratic countries can implement green friendly measures because environmentalists form strong lobbying and their ideas get implemented by major political parties. This doesn't happen in US where people don't care. It also doesn't help the image of environmentalists by putting someone like Greta as a role model and overly politicizing and trivializing serious issues.

It's about sending a message that everyone recognizes the urgency of the issue. Covid 19 sent a far stronger message than environmentalists to an extent that i believe serves as a powerful push to end the reliance on oil markets and switch to green markets.

 

[allantois]

If one person can spread it to 153 then this thing is not close to containable. Just get through it already.

We will get through it alright with a ruined economy, collapse of multiple industries, near total breakdown of society, and our solidification as the laughing stock of the world.

 

[Lawpy]

We will get through it alright with a ruined economy, collapse of multiple industries, near total breakdown of society, and our solidification as the laughing stock of the world.

i want to know who is laughing if the world is collectively suffering from the pandemic and having their economies completely ruined

 

[deleted87051]

i want to know who is laughing if the world is collectively suffering from the pandemic and having their economies completely ruined

Maybe the 100 countries with less than 1000 COVID deaths.

 

[Lawpy]

Maybe the 100 countries with less than 1000 COVID deaths.

Still bad and probably underreported. Also people have been usually more annoyed than amused with Trump's stupidity before covid and stayed that way.

 

[DocMcCoy]

SDN used to be a lot better. It oddly and unfortunately devolved into basically a Reddit subforum around 2016. Maybe some of us can make SDN great again
🤣

Any of you all read the EM covid thread? comes off a little more conservative than this one.

 

[anbuitachi]

To apply that statement to the scenario we are currently in, I mean you gotta be kidding me. The lack of insight is astounding. All you need to do is look around the world to understand why you need a competent govt. Someone w a grade school education would understand this. There's so many garbage responses spewed around this forum that its not even worth discussion.

overall asia is doing a much better job than Europe, NA, SA despite having the most population by far. i know people are saying we cant be asia bc of xyz , name a random # of reasons, but this is why Asia is the future leader of the planet.

 

[vector2]

Except some democratic countries can implement green friendly measures because environmentalists form strong lobbying and their ideas get implemented by major political parties. This doesn't happen in US where people don't care. It also doesn't help the image of environmentalists by putting someone like Greta as a role model and overly politicizing and trivializing serious issues.

It's about sending a message that everyone recognizes the urgency of the issue. Covid 19 sent a far stronger message than environmentalists to an extent that i believe serves as a powerful push to end the reliance on oil markets and switch to green markets.

You are mistaken that other democracies, namely the European ones, need lobbyists to get an environmental agenda through. Environmental legislation makes it through because there is already a strong grassroots movement and therefore representation in their legislative bodies....and that’s due to wacky stuff like their people getting taught science in school and their people believing that science reveals true things. There is no parallel between them and us on the issue.

 

[anbuitachi]

Woman whose family lives in Wuhan explains daily testing, modified classrooms in post-quarantine China: 'It's a new era'

Lily Li uses social media to share videos of post-quarantine life according to friends and family in Wuhan.

www.yahoo.com

wuhan style

 

[deleted59964]

overall asia is doing a much better job than Europe, NA, SA despite having the most population by far. i know people are saying we cant be asia bc of xyz , name a random # of reasons, but this is why Asia is the future leader of the planet.

some of Asia for sure - but other parts have massive poverty and corruption problems.
i would take their statistics with more than a pinch of salt

 

[chocomorsel]

some of Asia for sure - but other parts have massive poverty and corruption problems.
i would take their statistics with more than a pinch of salt

Dude, I have seen massive poverty and corruption right here in the Deep South USA. Hard to believe but there are people who live without plumbing, electricity and who go hungry right here in this superpower.
We got plenty of corruption as well. It just often gets hidden a little better. Until someone whistle blows and it comes to light.

 

[allantois]

Well no one is gonna trust China especially after the current pandemic. Japan has the issue of high debt to GDP (much what we will face after this is over) as well as aging population (what we will have in the future). South Korea is a small country. In the medium term, Asian economies will surpass that of the US. However, their standard of living will take many decades to catch up to that of the West. Europe is suffering just as much as the US, if not worse from COVID. Perhaps, no one is laughing, but we are well on the path to joining the long list of failed banana republics and empires.

 

[We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes]

People who were children during the Great Recession of the 1930s were traumatized by it for life, to the level that they were savers not spenders till they died, regardless how big their bank accounts were.

You almost say it like that's a bad thing. This was basically the greatest era of American finances, that 30 year or so period after WW2 where government paid down it debt from 100% GDP to 20%, and where individuals saved and invested rather than living in debt up to their eyeballs buying overpriced wine and sushi and vacations no one in that era would dream of that all yield absolutely nothing but short term pleasure.

That saving and investing, and hard work and discipline, lead to the US completely dominating the world in wealth, innovation, education and any other useful measure basically. So yeah, count me in on getting to the US back to that mentality as a whole 😉

 

[anbuitachi]

Dude, I have seen massive poverty and corruption right here in the Deep South USA. Hard to believe but there are people who live without plumbing, electricity and who go hungry right here in this superpower.
We got plenty of corruption as well. It just often gets hidden a little better. Until someone whistle blows and it comes to light.

Tons of corruption and poverty here.

 

[Mman]

You almost say it like that's a bad thing. This was basically the greatest era of American finances, that 30 year or so period after WW2 where government paid down it debt from 100% GDP to 20%, and where individuals saved and invested rather than living in debt up to their eyeballs buying overpriced wine and sushi and vacations no one in that era would dream of that all yield absolutely nothing but short term pleasure.

The US debt to GDP ratio was 38% when we entered WW2. It was 114% when WW2 ended. 25 years later it was 35%. The thing is, that is government debt, not household debt. It is difficult to find good data for household debt from that era, but from 1952 to 1964 the household debt to GDP ratio basically doubled. Since the financial crisis, the household debt to GDP ratio has fallen significantly (from 99% to 75%).

The problem the US has had is not that individual families are living too expensive of a lifestyle, it's that the government has continued to spend far more money than they take in via tax receipts. I mean do we really need to spend nearly 50% of the world budget on defense? Republicans for decades have claimed to the party of fiscal responsibility and small government, yet our deficit and debt have continued to explode under Trump even with a Republican congress and despite being in the midst of one of the longest expansions on record.

 

[vector2]

The US debt to GDP ratio was 38% when we entered WW2. It was 114% when WW2 ended. 25 years later it was 35%. The thing is, that is government debt, not household debt. It is difficult to find good data for household debt from that era, but from 1952 to 1964 the household debt to GDP ratio basically doubled. Since the financial crisis, the household debt to GDP ratio has fallen significantly (from 99% to 75%).

The problem the US has had is not that individual families are living too expensive of a lifestyle, it's that the government has continued to spend far more money than they take in via tax receipts. I mean do we really need to spend nearly 50% of the world budget on defense? Republicans for decades have claimed to the party of fiscal responsibility and small government, yet our deficit and debt have continued to explode under Trump even with a Republican congress and despite being in the midst of one of the longest expansions on record.

I wonder if he knows that Eisenhower led off that "greatest era of American finances" with 8 years of a top marginal income tax rate of 90%+ for an individual making $1.7m+ in today's dollars and 72% for someone making $400k+ in today's dollars.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I wonder if he knows that Eisenhower led off that "greatest era of American finances" with 8 years of a top marginal income tax rate of 90%+ for an individual making $1.7m+ in today's dollars and 72% for someone making $400k+ in today's dollars.

Not really a fair point as the tax rate didn't change during that time, so that was just a continuation of the status quo.

I'm sure you already know this, but it was a great time for America because we had to do zero rebuilding post-WW2 unlike every single other major nation. We also didn't lose a substantial portion of our population or treasury due to the war.

 

[vector2]

Not really a fair point as the tax rate didn't change during that time, so that was just a continuation of the status quo.

I'm sure you already know this, but it was a great time for America because we had to do zero rebuilding post-WW2 unlike every single other major nation. We also didn't lose a substantial portion of our population or treasury due to the war.

Whether it was status quo or a change is irrelevant to the points I'm making, namely 1. paying down debt:gdp ratio from 100 to 20 is orders of magnitudes easier and requires less austerity when taxes aren't at historical lows, 2. Economic expansion was still brisk even in conditions that would be considered "anti-growth" by the heritage foundation

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Whether it was status quo or a change is irrelevant to the points I'm making, namely 1. paying down debt:gdp ratio from 100 to 20 is orders of magnitudes easier and requires less austerity when taxes aren't at historical lows, 2. Economic expansion was still brisk even in conditions that would be considered "anti-growth" by the heritage foundation

Agree with point 1.

Point 2 less so. For instance, the 72% tax above 400k combined with my state taxes would lead to an 80% rate. I'd be hard pressed to work above that level for 20 cents on every dollar.

 

[anbuitachi]

I wonder if he knows that Eisenhower led off that "greatest era of American finances" with 8 years of a top marginal income tax rate of 90%+ for an individual making $1.7m+ in today's dollars and 72% for someone making $400k+ in today's dollars.

yea, but the income inequality is so high these days. houses have gone way up compared to in the past. too many ultra rich people and foriegn rich people driving up prices. but yea if taxes were that high i just wouldnt work beyond that. it affects ultrarich people a lot more than W2 doctors

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

yea, but the income inequality is so high these days. houses have gone way up compared to in the past. too many ultra rich people and foriegn rich people driving up prices. but yea if taxes were that high i just wouldnt work beyond that. it affects ultrarich people a lot more than W2 doctors

Increasing capital gains tax is a good solution to that

 

[deleted126335]

You almost say it like that's a bad thing. This was basically the greatest era of American finances, that 30 year or so period after WW2 where government paid down it debt from 100% GDP to 20%, and where individuals saved and invested rather than living in debt up to their eyeballs buying overpriced wine and sushi and vacations no one in that era would dream of that all yield absolutely nothing but short term pleasure.

That saving and investing, and hard work and discipline, lead to the US completely dominating the world in wealth, innovation, education and any other useful measure basically. So yeah, count me in on getting to the US back to that mentality as a whole 😉

We also held all the aces. The work ethic from those tempered by WW2 and the depression, the only economy left standing after the war, rule of law, a free and relatively tolerant society, strong public education, etc. in addition to the work ethic eroding, the other things have been copied.

BTW, during this era a Republican congress sent President Eisenhower tax cut legislation that he refused to sign because the budget wasn’t balanced.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[anbuitachi]

Increasing capital gains tax is a good solution to that

exactly. all these tax increases to income just screws over the lowly W2 employees. the rich get richer and poor get poorer.

 

[marr65]

Who Pays For This?

The federal government will run a $3.8 trillion deficit this year and $2.1 trillion next year.

www.collaborativefund.com

Very interesting article on our government spending.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Who Pays For This?

The federal government will run a $3.8 trillion deficit this year and $2.1 trillion next year.

www.collaborativefund.com

Very interesting article on our government spending.

Interesting. Thanks for posting!

 

[deleted171991]

You almost say it like that's a bad thing. This was basically the greatest era of American finances, that 30 year or so period after WW2 where government paid down it debt from 100% GDP to 20%, and where individuals saved and invested rather than living in debt up to their eyeballs buying overpriced wine and sushi and vacations no one in that era would dream of that all yield absolutely nothing but short term pleasure.

That saving and investing, and hard work and discipline, lead to the US completely dominating the world in wealth, innovation, education and any other useful measure basically. So yeah, count me in on getting to the US back to that mentality as a whole 😉

You're preaching to the choir. I'm a saver. I hate any debt, governmental, business or personal, unless it's for a proven high ROIC activity.

I was just trying to prove that a recession is important for the psychology of young people, especially those who are in their teens and twenties, because it causes a form of PTSD. I myself am relatively frugal probably because I remember being poor.

So the longer this recession lasts, the higher the chances it will have lasting effects. Already the late Millennials and Zoomers, who have never really tasted financial success in life, are more socialist than probably any other generation in American history. That will have consequences, and not of the good type.

 

[deleted171991]

I wonder if he knows that Eisenhower led off that "greatest era of American finances" with 8 years of a top marginal income tax rate of 90%+ for an individual making $1.7m+ in today's dollars and 72% for someone making $400k+ in today's dollars.

He's still one of the few American presidents that I have respect for. People with a lot of administrative experience make good presidents. I would love to see more governors/generals elected, instead of these empty talkers.

 

[deleted171991]

The US debt to GDP ratio was 38% when we entered WW2. It was 114% when WW2 ended. 25 years later it was 35%. The thing is, that is government debt, not household debt. It is difficult to find good data for household debt from that era, but from 1952 to 1964 the household debt to GDP ratio basically doubled. Since the financial crisis, the household debt to GDP ratio has fallen significantly (from 99% to 75%).

The problem the US has had is not that individual families are living too expensive of a lifestyle, it's that the government has continued to spend far more money than they take in via tax receipts. I mean do we really need to spend nearly 50% of the world budget on defense? Republicans for decades have claimed to the party of fiscal responsibility and small government, yet our deficit and debt have continued to explode under Trump even with a Republican congress and despite being in the midst of one of the longest expansions on record.

I have long said that there is a reason people (and parties) cling to power, and it's not about the oxymoronic concept of "public servant". They cling to power so that they can protect and promote their cronies. Period.

The first solution to this is to elect only people who don't want that power. People with a proven record of PUBLIC service, and not SELF service. Even that may not be enough, because the system has been corrupted by lobbying, since it became legal to "buy" elected representatives. So we need to dial back the lobbying laws, and Citizens United. As long as Big Money "elects" our representatives, nothing will change.

 

[Mman]

I have long said that there is a reason people (and parties) cling to power, and it's not about the oxymoronic concept of "public servant". They cling to power so that they can protect and promote their cronies. Period.

The first solution to this is to elect only people who don't want that power. People with a proven record of PUBLIC service, and not SELF service. Even that may not be enough, because the system has been corrupted by lobbying, since it became legal to "buy" elected representatives. So we need to dial back the lobbying laws, and Citizens United. As long as Big Money "elects" our representatives, nothing will change.

John McCain was a major champion of campaign finance reform and that would have been a great thing. Politicians job is to get re-elected, not to serve any particular party or individual and so they will willingly sell themselves to whoever gives them the most money so they can run more ads and get re-elected.

If we had campaign finance reform and serious term limits we would have a legislature that is far more representative of the interests of the people as well as more interested in actually improving quality of life instead of just improving their chances to remain in Washington.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Another 3 trillion dollars we don't have spent in a poor way by an inefficient government isn't what this nation needs. How about helping the unemployed with a $1500 per month stipend for 3-5 months? No more stimulus checks. No more trillions wasted . Instead, spend the money on those that actually need the help the most.

Before any of you criticize my comment remember we actually don't have another trillion dollars; the money is fake being printed and borrowed to be paid back by the children and their children's children. We are creating generations worth of debt for others to repay.