The ultimate COVID thread

[axeon123]

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What site is this from? Nice visualization.

 

[deleted171991]

So what’s the alternative? Just accept racism and inequality?

Never accept racism, or discrimination based on stuff a person is not responsible for/cannot change, unless relevant for the job (sorry, ugly people still can't be Miss Universe).

Inequality of outcomes is just part of the human species, because humans will always strive to have $1 more than the next guy. If you don't believe me, check the psychology books and experiments. You can keep trying to make them equal, and they will keep trying to prove you wrong.

Inequality of opportunity is easier to achieve, but I am not sure it will make as big of a difference as you'd think. There are many variables in the success of a kid, and equal opportunity is just one of many. I had the opportunity of going to the best middle school in my county because my dad was friends with the principal's daughter (the fact that I had great grades didn't hurt). But that only got me in the door; I had to work my ass off until I became the valedictorian (they tried to kick me out more than once for not being a blue blood, until I became one of their best). That was my mom's doing (I am both intelligent and lazy - perfect combo for a good intensivist). She had been the first in her family to go to college.

That variable, the family, the know-how, the shoulders to stand on, is priceless, and it's cultural. That's why Asian kids run circles around everybody else. That's why those who criticize the structure of many African-American families (i.e. head of household single mothers) are right. Until that's fixed, you can offer black kids the best education and still most of them will not be able to benefit from it. I know, because I had friends who came from poor unstable families, and they got lost in translation unless they were really smart. It does take a village to raise a child (well). Also, it's very hard to become successful coming from a family that does not value and prioritize education, even if the kid is smart and has the best educational opportunities.

 

[ShockIndex]

View attachment 309740

25-35% ICU bed availability is considered low? Prior to the pandemic, most large systems operated at 90-95% capacity including the ICU.

 

[deleted171991]

25-35% ICU bed availability is considered low? Prior to the pandemic, most large systems operated at 90-95% capacity including the ICU.

At Covid-19 growth rates, those ICUs should get overwhelmed in a week or two.

 

[deleted171991]

The thread is clearly no longer on topic and should be moved appropriately, thanks

This thread hasn't been on topic for about 3500 posts; it has even gotten a name change at some point. There is a dedicated Covid-19 clinical thread.

 

[deleted171991]

If so, does my skin color or gender change the value of my argument?

Racism, no.

Inequality, yes.

Racism and inequality are distinct concepts. Stop treating them in the same sentence like synonyms.

That question was priceless; pity nobody here will get it.

 

[Lawpy]

This thread hasn't been on topic for about 3500 posts; it has even gotten a name change at some point. There is a dedicated Covid-19 clinical thread.

HCQ bad

 

[deleted171991]

False Prophets

If you really want to help black America, don’t look to Black Lives Matter.

www.city-journal.org

"BLM was started by three black women, but their stated goal—to achieve equality for blacks—masks a different agenda. In the “What We Believe” section of the BLM site, they highlight the work they do to “dismantle cisgender privilege” and their desire to “disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure”—a structure that many, including myself and Kanye West, believe is key to rebuilding black communities."

Better read that entire post-modernist marxist Newspeak manifesto. The intentions are good, but, holy crap, Lenin would be proud, "comrades".

 

[deleted171991]

Right-wing media says Antifa militants have seized part of Seattle. Local authorities say otherwise

Armed militant activists with the group Antifa have seized a sizable section of Seattle and are plotting to expand their territory — all as the local police surrender to them and evacuate a local precinct.

edition.cnn.com

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

 

[deleted87051]

Apparently masks are a danger to our health. We should all be dead by now.

 

[deleted87051]

View attachment 309707

People don’t like to relinquish dominance.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

At Covid-19 growth rates, those ICUs should get overwhelmed in a week or two.

Here in SC despite the sharp increase in cases our number of hospitalized patients has stayed about the same, at least for my hospital system.

 

[pgg]

Right-wing media says Antifa militants have seized part of Seattle. Local authorities say otherwise

Armed militant activists with the group Antifa have seized a sizable section of Seattle and are plotting to expand their territory — all as the local police surrender to them and evacuate a local precinct.

edition.cnn.com

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

If we could give the wildlife-refuge-seizing Branch Dildonians time and space to peacefully settle the situation, it's probably not unreasonable to do the same with these clowns in Seattle.

It's just interesting to recall the left demanding SWAT and Army intervention for the Y'all Qaeda turds while the right counseled caution and understanding of their pain and grievances, and now the right wants the troops sent into Seattle autonomous zone while the left is bending over backwards to paint this as a peaceful hippie poetry reading.

 

[crash2500]

The thread is clearly no longer on topic and should be moved appropriately, thanks

Why does this thread make you so uncomfortable?

 

[Neopolymath]

Why does this thread make you so uncomfortable?

They must have a gun to their head forcing them to read each post in this thread.

 

[crash2500]

If so, does my skin color or gender change the value of my argument?



Racism, no.

Inequality, yes.

Racism and inequality are distinct concepts. Stop treating them in the same sentence like synonyms.

Your argument is that we will never have an equal society.

We have been talking about racial inequalities in our country.

You argue we should just stop trying to create equality between races.

Being white gives one an unquestionable advantage on our country.

You're a white male.

What else do i need to spell out for you?

 

[chocomorsel]

Good luck getting buy-in for an equal society. That has never existed. The social Darwinist in me wonders if it’s even desirable.

About the closest to equality that you will see in US is the concept of equal justice under the law (14th Amendment). However and as others have alluded to, that can be hard to quantify. For example, our society has decided to disproportionately punish certain drug crimes as being somehow “dirtier.” That is to say, get caught in a park with some oxy in a Viagra bottle like Rush Limbaugh and you’ll go to camp cupcake rehab center; get caught with a gun and a couple of cracks rocks and you got at least 5 years for just the gun if a felon (crack is also disproportionately punished compared to opiates).

Bottomline, if you goal is to eliminate all disparity in America, it’s a long haul with buy-in from less than 1/3 of America.

We are specifically speaking of Racial Disparities. Not All disparities.
Disparities are part of every culture. We are well aware. There are always going to be poor people versus rich people in every society.
In this country the poor people are overwhelmingly black and brown and a large reason for that is due to centuries of racism, marginalization and oppression which although had improved continues to permeate American society today.

Do you think crack possession carries worse sentencing than cocaine because somehow cocaine is a less dangerous drug? And that is why you proved @crash2500’s point.

 

[vector2]

If we could give the wildlife-refuge-seizing Branch Dildonians time and space to peacefully settle the situation, it's probably not unreasonable to do the same with these clowns in Seattle.

It's just interesting to recall the left demanding SWAT and Army intervention for the Y'all Qaeda turds while the right counseled caution and understanding of their pain and grievances, and now the right wants the troops sent into Seattle autonomous zone while the left is bending over backwards to paint this as a peaceful hippie poetry reading.

Consider the level of armaments between the two situations before you start making ill-fitting comparisons.

 

[chocomorsel]

If so, does my skin color or gender change the value of my argument?



Racism, no.

Inequality, yes.

Racism and inequality are distinct concepts. Stop treating them in the same sentence like synonyms.

We are specifically talking of Racial Inequality. There is such a thing. It means we are unequal because of racism.
I see what you are saying. We aren't talking of all inequities. We are taking of the ones brought on by systematic racism.

And yes, if you are in fact a White male, seeing the world through your eyes, with advantages that you may not even be aware of, and the disadvantages that people of color face every day, that changes the value of your argument.

 

[pgg]

Consider the level of armaments between the two situations before you start making ill-fitting comparisons.

You're right, those chromosome-surplus'd Y'all Qaeda *****s weren't toting Molotov cocktails, destroying, or threatening to destroy public or private property, bad comparison. A police precinct in Seattle evacuated for fear of getting burned out and there are 100s of homes in the affected area (presumably inhabited by at least some people who aren't on board with living in a zone free of police, fire, EMS, and other public services).

“We have been hearing from community members that they have been subjected to barricades set up by the protesters with some armed individuals running them as checkpoints in the neighborhood,” Seattle Police Assistant Chief Deanna Nollette said during a news conference on Wednesday. “While they have a constitutionally protected right to bear arms there is no legal right for those arms to be used to intimidate community members.”

As usual, I'm less interested in the weapons than I am in the conduct of the people. I'm totally OK with these protesters in Seattle being armed. I'm totally OK with blocking streets to traffic and other acts of non-destructive civil disobedience. A protest isn't much of a protest if no one's inconvenienced.

A "checkpoint" isn't a "checkpoint" if there isn't a credible threat of force behind preventing a person's passage. I have a problem with that.

And again, I basically approve of the authorities' approach to this thing in Seattle - time, restraint, de-escalation. Same as was afforded to Vanilla Isis. Arrest and prosecution for actual crimes committed can wait. Certainly don't need SWAT or the Army to clear people out. I was merely commenting that the opposite sides are cheering or frothing over this approach, this time. I have a deep appreciation for irony, hypocrisy, and other-foot-shoeing.

 

[deleted171991]

We are specifically talking of Racial Inequality. There is such a thing. It means we are unequal because of racism.
I see what you are saying. We aren't talking of all inequities. We are taking of the ones brought on by systematic racism.

And yes, if you are in fact a White male, seeing the world through your eyes, with advantages that you may not even be aware of, and the disadvantages that people of color face every day, that changes the value of your argument.

I am sorry, but there is no "systematic" racism in most Americans, at least not in my neck of the woods, and especially not in the younger half of the population (under 40). If anything, there is "systematic" political correctness (most whites and males have to be careful how they step on the eggs). There may be racism in certain parts of the country, and in some law enforcement officers, and some criminal laws may have been written to discriminate against minorities, but there is no "systematic" anything at national level. You really don't want to know what "systematic", "hunted" etc. mean. Ask the Jews or the refugees from ethnic wars. What you may see, though, is reactive (racism), which is what happens when you keep accusing somebody of something they haven't done, until they end up disliking you.

And if we are talking about racism, I think African Americans were the racial group with the highest rates of antisemitism, by far (28% if memory serves well). Unsurprising that most famous NYC antisemitic attacks in 2020 were committed by African Americans. Meaning that nobody is perfect, and that people need better education, or should we talk about the "systematic" racism of the black community?

We should all strive towards avoiding discrimination (especially since that's the LAW), but we should also stop seeing it everywhere, like paranoid people. Even the healthy human body produces cancerous cells every day. We will never reach perfect. And anybody who has ever lived in a Marxist or authoritarian society knows that they just keep brainwashing people with proofs of how bad the "enemy" is. The enemy being, in this case, the white male and white people. It's also very easy to believe it when everybody around you keeps saying it (the lonely rational voice will have the fate of Cassandra). One of the tenets of peaceful co-existence is to always assume first that the other side has good intentions, even when they make mistakes, not the other way round.

Remember how you said that you used to think there was no racism in this country, until your African American friends "opened your eyes", and now you seem to not be able to even contemplate that you may be wrong? Yep, that's how Marxism sounds. Welcome to the club, comrade!

Before, it was the exploiting bourgeoisie, now it's the whites (or the Jews, depending on whom you ask). It's not by chance that BLM is a marxist organization. Marxism is extremism; it's not "democratic" socialism, it's class warfare. I've seen "democratic" socialism, and it's not as radical as BLM. They don't hate on people who disagree with them. They don't want to "cancel" anybody.

This doesn't change the fact that there are some horrible law enforcement and imprisonment abuses going on in this country, and those need to be fixed, or that many minorities need to be brought out of poverty. And we have crony corporate capitalism that sucks the life out of many of us. Etc.

Hate comes from envy, anger comes from fear. The rich hate the poor, the poor hate the rich. This will never change. If a group is richer, usually for some cultural reasons, there will always be conspiracy theories, especially from political leaders. Nothing unites more than hate. People like Sharpton (and Trump) have built political careers on that. If you need to hate somebody, hate political leaders, including your own; they are the reason that, 150 years after the Civil War and 50 years after the Civil Rights Act, we are still having these conversations in America. It's a nice cow to milk for an entire career.

Let's hope this time will be the charm. Good luck to all of us with that!

 

[chocomorsel]

I agree with FFP.

The problem with AA is that it morally wrong. I have no stake in opposing AA being a non-white minority but oppose it on principle.

You want to fix the systemic inequality against blacks? Pour money into programs that keep black families together, early education + childcare, promotes marriage and gives more opportunities to stay out of gangs.

The sad thing is that AA actually hurts the black population because it leads to positive reinforcement that individuals are getting “bumped ahead based on skin color” to take other individual jobs/spots.

Have you actually seen that? Is that something that is really happens in the black community? That they think don't have to work hard since they will "get bumped ahead"? Because that is a fallacy. We have to work harder to get to the same place in life. Even with Affirmative Action helping us.

No matter how hard we work, chances are, we will never get treated the same as a White Male. I can speak as a black professional that we know how to behave at work. We know amongst ourselves that we cannot behave the exact same way as our White male counterparts, because their behavior is treated differently than ours. If a White Male at work loses their cool and goes off on a rant in a room of people he will most likely get a pass compared to the same behavior coming from a Black Physician or a Woman. We have to behave better, keep our mouths shut more. It's very ingrained in the black professional circles.

I am gonna have to channel my frenemy @FFP line here. "I had the opportunity of going to the best middle school in my county because my dad was friends with the principal's daughter (the fact that I had great grades didn't hurt). But that only got me in the door. I had to work my ass off ... to be valedictorian. "

I had the opportunity to go to Medical School in Texas because of my color and gender. But that only got me in the door. I had to bust my ass to stay in, succeed and graduate. And I say that because my MCAT score was low even with my 3.8 GPA and Summa Cum Laude undergraduate Degree. We all know how much weight is put on MCAT scores.

No I was not valedictorian of my medical school.

Affirmative action opens many doors for many people who would otherwise have those doors bolted shut. And until we agree to the basics in this country, such as equal education from a young age, we will still need programs like affirmative action. It's the best we have right now.

 

[chocomorsel]

I am sorry, but there is no "systematic" racism in most Americans, at least not in my neck of the woods, and especially not in the younger half of the population (under 40). If anything, there is "systematic" political correctness. There may be racism in certain parts of the country, and in some law enforcement officers, and some criminal laws may have been written to discriminate against minorities, but there is no "systematic" anything. You really don't want to know what "systematic", "hunted" etc. mean. Ask the Jews.

And if we are talking about racism, I think African Americans were the racial group with the highest rates of anti-semitism, by far (28% if memory serves well). Unsurprising that most famous NYC anti-semitic attacks in 2020 were committed by African Americans. Meaning that nobody is perfect, and that people need better education.

Yes, we should strive towards avoiding discrimination, but we should also stop trying to prove it everywhere. Even the healthy human body produces cancerous cells every day. We will never reach perfect. And anybody who has ever lived in a Marxist or authoritarian society knows that they just keep brainwashing people with proofs of how bad the "enemy" is. The enemy being, in this case, the white male and white people. It's also very easy to believe it when everybody around you keeps saying it (the lonely rational voice will have the fate of Cassandra).

Before, it was the exploiting bourgeoisie. It's not by chance that BLM is a marxist organization.

Sorry, misspelling on my part. I meant, systemic. Whatever the case, I am referring to systematic/systemic racism from decades and centuries ago that has led to this class warfare that we have today where Black People are disproportionately poor and continue to suffer from unconscious bias, racial segregation and racial inequalities that persist today. The overt systemic racism of years past has paved way to the bias and inequalities that we live with today.

And no, I don't think that the BLM supporters are saying that the enemy is all white males and white people. Because look at how many of them are marching with the BLM.

I don't know about that sentiment with Anti-Semitism, but I am willing to learn more.
Are you saying that Jews "hunted" today?

 

[Kierkegaard's Bud]

Have you actually seen that? Is that something that is really happens in the black community? That they think don't have to work hard since they will "get bumped ahead"? Because that is a fallacy. We have to work harder to get to the same place in life. Even with Affirmative Action helping us.

No matter how hard we work, chances are, we will never get treated the same as a White Male. I can speak as a black professional that we know how to behave at work. We know amongst ourselves that we cannot behave the exact same way as our White male counterparts, because their behavior is treated differently than ours. If a White Male at work loses their cool and goes off on a rant in a room of people he will most likely get a pass compared to the same behavior coming from a Black Physician or a Woman. We have to behave better, keep our mouths shut more. It's very ingrained in the black professional circles.

I am gonna have to channel my frenemy @FFP line here. "I had the opportunity of going to the best middle school in my county because my dad was friends with the principal's daughter (the fact that I had great grades didn't hurt). But that only got me in the door. I had to work my ass off ... to be valedictorian. "

I had the opportunity to go to Medical School in Texas because of my color and gender. But that only got me in the door. I had to bust my ass to stay in, succeed and graduate. And I say that because my MCAT score was low even with my 3.8 GPA and Summa Cum Laude undergraduate Degree. We all know how much weight is put on MCAT scores.

No I was not valedictorian of my medical school.

Affirmative action opens many doors for many people who would otherwise have those doors bolted shut. And until we agree to the basics in this country, such as equal education from a young age, we will still need programs like affirmative action. It's the best we have right now.

" No matter how hard we work, chances are, we will never get treated the same as a White Male. " Until you truly get rid of this mentality, it will handicap you for the rest of your life. Stop comparing yourself to others, especially based on something as superficial as skin color. I believe this is one of the main sources of inequality in the US if you are persuaded that you CANT win, you won't even start the race, let alone assume your full potential. You might even be right, but you leave the next generation a better nation if you remove this mentality and not pass it on.

 

[Leon'sMom]

View attachment 309707

This is precisely what is happening in current day America. There is a reason that the Dems support the destruction and removal of some of this country's history (statues, monuments, renaming of buildings and bases, etc). The Dems want to remove physical evidence of their party's racist history. The Left has already taken control of the media (the current narrative) and the publishers (of film and print) and education (through unions and marxism on college campuses), and they have basically projected onto Republicans all of the past sins of the Democrat Party. Now, under the guise of compassion and empathy, they support the erasure of physical signs of their (past and present) racist ideology. Civil Rights and Monumental Lies – The Radiance Foundation

 

[chocomorsel]

" No matter how hard we work, chances are, we will never get treated the same as a White Male. " Until you truly get rid of this mentality, it will handicap you for the rest of your life. Stop comparing yourself to others, especially based on something as superficial as skin color. I believe this is one of the main sources of inequality in the US if you are persuaded that you CANT win, you won't even start the race, let alone assume your full potential. You might even be right, but you leave the next generation a better nation if you remove this mentality and not pass it on.

I can't say it's handicapped me permanently, but it is the reality I live in. Can't get rid of my reality. But yeah, I agree that this can keep some people down and have them give up before they even begin unfortunately.
Lucky for me, I spent the first few years of my life in an almost all black country. I was never led to believe I couldn't be anything I wanted to be because we all essentially looked the same.
I didn't really discover how black I was until medical school and residency. There have been some bumps in the road for sure, but I luckily have not been permanently handicapped by the reality of this American life of mine.

 

[vector2]

You're right, those chromosome-surplus'd Y'all Qaeda *****s weren't toting Molotov cocktails, destroying, or threatening to destroy public or private property, bad comparison. A police precinct in Seattle evacuated for fear of getting burned out and there are 100s of homes in the affected area (presumably inhabited by at least some people who aren't on board with living in a zone free of police, fire, EMS, and other public services).

“We have been hearing from community members that they have been subjected to barricades set up by the protesters with some armed individuals running them as checkpoints in the neighborhood,” Seattle Police Assistant Chief Deanna Nollette said during a news conference on Wednesday. “While they have a constitutionally protected right to bear arms there is no legal right for those arms to be used to intimidate community members.”

As usual, I'm less interested in the weapons than I am in the conduct of the people. I'm totally OK with these protesters in Seattle being armed. I'm totally OK with blocking streets to traffic and other acts of non-destructive civil disobedience. A protest isn't much of a protest if no one's inconvenienced.

A "checkpoint" isn't a "checkpoint" if there isn't a credible threat of force behind preventing a person's passage. I have a problem with that.

And again, I basically approve of the authorities' approach to this thing in Seattle - time, restraint, de-escalation. Same as was afforded to Vanilla Isis. Arrest and prosecution for actual crimes committed can wait. Certainly don't need SWAT or the Army to clear people out. I was merely commenting that the opposite sides are cheering or frothing over this approach, this time. I have a deep appreciation for irony, hypocrisy, and other-foot-shoeing.

You're OK with the Seattle protesters being armed....that's great, but the fact remains that they aren't to any significant degree. And as much as you want to create a false equivalency between an actual militia with a heavy stockpile of semiautomatic rifles and explosives (including one of the militia who was arrested in the aftermath of the incident for possession of a stolen automatic M2 Browning) and a group of protesters with a molotov cocktail and almost nary a handgun- it remains exactly that: a false equivalency. That Oregon militia was miles closer to being analogous to a Waco part 2 than what's happening in Seattle.


And as far as property destruction:

 

[pgg]

False Prophets

If you really want to help black America, don’t look to Black Lives Matter.

www.city-journal.org

"BLM was started by three black women, but their stated goal—to achieve equality for blacks—masks a different agenda. In the “What We Believe” section of the BLM site, they highlight the work they do to “dismantle cisgender privilege” and their desire to “disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure”—a structure that many, including myself and Kanye West, believe is key to rebuilding black communities."

Better read that entire post-modernist marxist Newspeak manifesto. The intentions are good, but, holy crap, Lenin would be proud, "comrades".

So I just read that entire "what we believe" page. I actually don't really have a problem with the two highlighted quotes about "cisgender privilege" and disrupting "nuclear family structure".

The full quotes for those sections are:

We are self-reflexive and do the work required to dismantle cisgender privilege and uplift Black trans folk, especially Black trans women who continue to be disproportionately impacted by trans-antagonistic violence.

I still roll my eyes at a lot of the language the trans community uses, and I don't know if I'll ever view them the same as I do LGB persons. To be clear, I am sympathetic to their hardships and struggles and absolutely oppose any kind of discrimination against them. But I think in terms of pity for broken people as opposed to my easy acceptance/encouragement of LGB persons. I've yet to be convinced that there isn't a core of actual mental illness in a large proportion of trans persons, and I'm concerned that normalizing it all will ultimately prove to be harmful. Whatever - I'm not particularly invested in the subject and as in all things, I'm happy to see other people do what they want with their lives; they don't need my approval or agreement.

Anyway, I read that "dismantle cisgender privilege" bit more as LGBT support as opposed to an assault on me as a straight guy. I don't understand why anyone would feel threatened by what they are doing to themselves and their bodies.

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

The little snippet of a quote about disrupting nuclear families was deliberately misleading and provocative. I don't see anything subversive or awful about the "takes a village" sentiment the full quote conveys. I do think that the high percentage of single-parent households in black communities is a terrible problem and the root of many problems faced by black kids and young adults. But the stated goal of the community coming together to fill that gap? Seems laudable as something that can be done right now.


So, two partial quotes out of context from 16 statements ... neither of which I can honestly find actual deep fault in ...

 

[pgg]

You're OK with the Seattle protesters being armed....that's great, but the fact remains that they aren't to any significant degree. And as much as you want to create a false equivalency between an actual militia with a heavy stockpile of semiautomatic rifles and explosives (including one of the militia who was arrested in the aftermath of the incident for possession of a stolen automatic M2 Browning) and a group of protesters with a molotov cocktail and almost nary a handgun- it remains exactly that: a false equivalency. That Oregon militia was miles closer to being analogous to a Waco part 2 than what's happening in Seattle.


And as far as property destruction:

View attachment 309755
View attachment 309756

That's fair - I hadn't really followed up on the extent of damage they'd done to the place. I'll add it to the list of reasons they earned my contempt.

 

[deleted171991]

So I just read that entire "what we believe" page. I actually don't really have a problem with the two highlighted quotes about "cisgender privilege" and disrupting "nuclear family structure".

The full quotes for those sections are:



I still roll my eyes at a lot of the language the trans community uses, and I don't know if I'll ever view them the same as I do LGB persons. To be clear, I am sympathetic to their hardships and struggles and absolutely oppose any kind of discrimination against them. But I think in terms of pity for broken people as opposed to my easy acceptance/encouragement of LGB persons. I've yet to be convinced that there isn't a core of actual mental illness in a large proportion of trans persons, and I'm concerned that normalizing it all will ultimately prove to be harmful. Whatever - I'm not particularly invested in the subject and as in all things, I'm happy to see other people do what they want with their lives; they don't need my approval or agreement.

Anyway, I read that "dismantle cisgender privilege" bit more as LGBT support as opposed to an assault on me as a straight guy. I don't understand why anyone would feel threatened by what they are doing to themselves and their bodies.

I'm not saying anyone that supports BLM (or trully equal rights for blacks) is a Marxist, just that BLM itself is a Marxist organization.


The little snippet of a quote about disrupting nuclear families was deliberately misleading and provocative. I don't see anything subversive or awful about the "takes a village" sentiment the full quote conveys. I do think that the high percentage of single-parent households in black communities is a terrible problem and the root of many problems faced by black kids and young adults. But the stated goal of the community coming together to fill that gap? Seems laudable as something that can be done right now.


So, two partial quotes out of context from 16 statements ... neither of which I can honestly find actual deep fault in ...

It's the Newspeak that bothers me, first of all. That's usually sign of brainwash, which usually leads to hate and inability to peaceful disagreement and dialogue. It's "four feet good, two feet bad" mentality. I do agree with a good part of their wishes myself, but there are some serious exaggerations there.

And I think you're optimistic about what they really mean, e.g. about dismantling "cisgender privilege", or "liberation for all Black people". This is how a Marxist organization looks; it's deja vu, for me, same as Trump was deja vu back when nobody believed me.

I'm not saying everybody who supports BLM (or truly equal rights for blacks) is a Marxist, just that BLM seems to be a Marxist organization, which thinks in Us vs Them terms. It's the new Class Warfare, except that this time the Blacks are the Proletariat and the Whites are the Bourgeoisie.

 

[pgg]

There is a reason that the Dems support the destruction and removal of some of this country's history (statues, monuments, renaming of buildings and bases, etc). The Dems want to remove physical evidence of their party's racist history.

I honestly can't understand how someone could possibly misunderstand something so completely. You're either out of your gourd or deliberately engaging in a misinformation campaign.

Forgetting the abuses and horrors of the past is the polar opposite of what they want. What they object to is keeping monuments that glorify that past, which is something else entirely.


To say nothing of this tired, tired old fiction that the modern Democratic party is the same cohort of people or even a new group with the same worldview as the evil bastards who seceded from the Union for the express purpose of keeping humans in slavery, or who who burned crosses on lawns 100 years later. It's bull**** and you know it. The southern Democrats who behaved so badly during the civil rights era in the 60s left the party and became Republicans. This isn't a secret. It isn't even controversial.

 

[deleted171991]

I honestly can't understand how someone could possibly misunderstand something so completely. You're either out of your gourd or deliberately engaging in a misinformation campaign.

Forgetting the abuses and horrors of the past is the polar opposite of what they want. What they object to is keeping monuments that glorify that past is something else entirely.


To say nothing of this tired, tired old fiction that the modern Democratic party is the same cohort of people or even a new group with the same worldview as the evil bastards who seceded from the Union for the express purpose of keeping humans in slavery, or who who burned crosses on lawns 100 years later. It's bull**** and you know it. The southern Democrats who behaved so badly during the civil rights era in the 60s left the party and became Republicans. This isn't a secret. It isn't even controversial.

Unfortunately, the Republicans aren't the party of Lincoln either. Those moderate republicans are now in the never-Trump group, and are treated like lepers.

 

[vector2]

"
Now both police and protesters are starting to talk about what’s next.

“I think it means a lot of things. Everything in the autonomous zone is free right now,” said Kate VanPetten, who works at Caffe Vita in the neighborhood. “It’s an anti-racist zone,” she said. VanPetten said she and most employees have been participating in the protests almost every day.

Many businesses in the area that are starting to reopen amid the pandemic are supporting the movement.

“We’ve been setting out free coffee for the protesters and doing everything we can to support them,” VanPetten said.

.....

Protestors said they’re here to spread their message peacefully.

“Anyone causing any trouble towards the building does not have anything to do with what we’re trying to do. They are on their own agenda. They’re on a selfish agenda. We are here for the people,” said Rooks, a Seattle musician and protester.

But he emphasized it was critical to take over the building — at least from the outside.

“Now they’re being forced to look and hear us out,” Rooks said. “This isn’t normal for people. We shouldn’t have to force ourselves to live like this just to be heard,” he said.

He added that he feels the “Autonomous Zone” detracts from the goal.

“We’re not trying to take over a part of the city. We’re just trying to send a message and get some justice and equality,” Rooks said.

The Seattle Police Department said it is working to restart conversations about how to move forward.

"

Redirect Notice

www.google.com

 

[deleted171991]

There should be no "Autonomous Zone" on a public street,, especially not while wearing AR-15s (which showed up in some photos). Go "occupy" a park, or a square, if one feels so "occupational", not sidewalks or buildings.

 

[chocomorsel]

I honestly can't understand how someone could possibly misunderstand something so completely. You're either out of your gourd or deliberately engaging in a misinformation campaign.

Forgetting the abuses and horrors of the past is the polar opposite of what they want. What they object to is keeping monuments that glorify that past, which is something else entirely.


To say nothing of this tired, tired old fiction that the modern Democratic party is the same cohort of people or even a new group with the same worldview as the evil bastards who seceded from the Union for the express purpose of keeping humans in slavery, or who who burned crosses on lawns 100 years later. It's bull**** and you know it. The southern Democrats who behaved so badly during the civil rights era in the 60s left the party and became Republicans. This isn't a secret. It isn't even controversial.

My question is this, why not move all these monuments and statues, and what not that are so painful for some people into a museum? I was appalled when I was in the deep south and went to court to get my tags for the car and saw a huge mural of slaves and slaveowners on horses working on a cotton plantation. Seriously? How's that supposed to make the black people who have to come to the courthouse feel? Apparently when people tried to get it removed, or painted over, it was overruled by the people in power.
I honestly found it completely insulting and unnecessary.

 

[pgg]

My question is this, why not move all these monuments and statues, and what not that are so painful for some people into a museum? I was appalled when I was in the deep south and went to court to get my tags for the car and saw a huge mural of slaves and slaveowners on horses working on a cotton plantation. Seriously? How's that supposed to make the black people who have to come to the courthouse feel? Apparently when people tried to get it removed, or painted over, it was overruled by the people in power.
I honestly found it completely insulting and unnecessary.

Relocation to museums or other places that add context and history would be great.

I think we both know that the people who oppose removing these things aren't interested in that, however. They want them to stay where they are because of what they represent.

 

[chocomorsel]

I am sorry, but there is no "systematic" racism in most Americans, at least not in my neck of the woods, and especially not in the younger half of the population (under 40). If anything, there is "systematic" political correctness (most whites and males have to be careful how they step on the eggs). There may be racism in certain parts of the country, and in some law enforcement officers, and some criminal laws may have been written to discriminate against minorities, but there is no "systematic" anything at national level. You really don't want to know what "systematic", "hunted" etc. mean. Ask the Jews or the refugees from ethnic wars. What you may see, though, is reactive (racism), which is what happens when you keep accusing somebody of something they haven't done, until they end up disliking you.

And if we are talking about racism, I think African Americans were the racial group with the highest rates of antisemitism, by far (28% if memory serves well). Unsurprising that most famous NYC antisemitic attacks in 2020 were committed by African Americans. Meaning that nobody is perfect, and that people need better education, or should we talk about the "systematic" racism of the black community?

We should all strive towards avoiding discrimination (especially since that's the LAW), but we should also stop seeing it everywhere, like paranoid people. Even the healthy human body produces cancerous cells every day. We will never reach perfect. And anybody who has ever lived in a Marxist or authoritarian society knows that they just keep brainwashing people with proofs of how bad the "enemy" is. The enemy being, in this case, the white male and white people. It's also very easy to believe it when everybody around you keeps saying it (the lonely rational voice will have the fate of Cassandra). One of the tenets of peaceful co-existence is to always assume first that the other side has good intentions, even when they make mistakes, not the other way round.

Remember how you said that you used to think there was no racism in this country, until your African American friends "opened your eyes", and now you seem to not be able to even contemplate that you may be wrong? Yep, that's how Marxism sounds. Welcome to the club, comrade!

Before, it was the exploiting bourgeoisie, now it's the whites (or the Jews, depending on whom you ask). It's not by chance that BLM is a marxist organization. Marxism is extremism; it's not "democratic" socialism, it's class warfare. I've seen "democratic" socialism, and it's not as radical as BLM. They don't hate on people who disagree with them. They don't want to "cancel" anybody.

This doesn't change the fact that there are some horrible law enforcement and imprisonment abuses going on in this country, and those need to be fixed, or that many minorities need to be brought out of poverty. And we have crony corporate capitalism that sucks the life out of many of us. Etc.

Hate comes from envy, anger comes from fear. The rich hate the poor, the poor hate the rich. This will never change. If a group is richer, usually for some cultural reasons, there will always be conspiracy theories, especially from political leaders. Nothing unites more than hate. People like Sharpton (and Trump) have built political careers on that. If you need to hate somebody, hate political leaders, including your own; they are the reason that, 150 years after the Civil War and 50 years after the Civil Rights Act, we are still having these conversations in America. It's a nice cow to milk for an entire career.

Let's hope this time will be the charm. Good luck to all of us with that!

I don't recall saying that there was no racism in this country. I believe what I said was, I didn't realize how black I was till I was in medical school and residency. And that I was ignorant to a lot of the racism in this country. That is not the same as saying there is no racism.

Once I realized that I was treated differently than my white counterparts in medical school, my African American friends opened my eyes to what was really happening.

 

[deleted171991]

Relocation to museums or other places that add context and history would be great.

I think we both know that the people who oppose removing these things aren't interested in that, however. They want them to stay where they are because of what they represent.

Or they just don't want to see mob-like behavior, because one never knows how far that goes. 😉

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

My question is this, why not move all these monuments and statues, and what not that are so painful for some people into a museum? I was appalled when I was in the deep south and went to court to get my tags for the car and saw a huge mural of slaves and slaveowners on horses working on a cotton plantation. Seriously? How's that supposed to make the black people who have to come to the courthouse feel? Apparently when people tried to get it removed, or painted over, it was overruled by the people in power.
I honestly found it completely insulting and unnecessary.

That sounds like the mural from Parks and Rec, completely inappropriate.

 

[chocomorsel]

Relocation to museums or other places that add context and history would be great.

I think we both know that the people who oppose removing these things aren't interested in that, however. They want them to stay where they are because of what they represent.

And this is in a majority Black city. Very disgusting.

 

[chocomorsel]

That sounds like the mural from Parks and Rec, completely inappropriate.

I grew up in Texas. There is a lot more equality in Texas than when I was in the Deep South. Very sad. Never saw so much segregation and health disparities in my life. So sad.

 

[chocomorsel]

 

[vector2]

Or they just don't want to see mob-like behavior, because one never knows how far that goes. 😉

What do you think about Germany's ban of Nazi symbology anywhere outside the contexts of "art or science, research or teaching" ?

 

[ShockIndex]

BTW, does

We are specifically talking of Racial Inequality. There is such a thing. It means we are unequal because of racism.
I see what you are saying. We aren't talking of all inequities. We are taking of the ones brought on by systematic racism.

And yes, if you are in fact a White male, seeing the world through your eyes, with advantages that you may not even be aware of, and the disadvantages that people of color face every day, that changes the value of your argument.

Not all racial inequities are due to racism nor is their an effective means for you or anyone else to quantify such a metric.

For example, earlier in this thread you acknowledged the fact that the black community is disproportionately violent. However, you glossed right over my question regarding the extent to which this explains this disparity in police use of force. So, how much disparity are you willing to tolerate so that the police can target those who hunt young, black men (i.e. other young black men). If your answer is zero disparity, then enjoy cities like Baltimore and East St Louis.

Are you saying that Jews "hunted" today?

Do you believe that blacks are in America today? If so, by who?

And, if you believe this, then I certainly hope that you support a robust Second Amendment right. I’m always intrigued by people who in the same breath argue that only the government should have guns, and then try to argue that they are being hunted by the government. It makes me think that they either don’t believe their own argument or are pathetic.

For the record, I believe that many innocent members of the black community are hunted...just not by the cops.

 

[deleted171991]

I don't recall saying that there was no racism in this country. I believe what I said was, I didn't realize how black I was till I was in medical school and residency. And that I was ignorant to a lot of the racism in this country. That is not the same as saying there is no racism.

Once I realized that I was treated differently than my white counterparts in medical school, my African American friends opened my eyes to what was really happening.

Sorry, I misremembered (and was too lazy to dig it up). Mea culpa.

As somebody who's been discriminated my entire life for my name, currently also for my accent, this piece of advice is golden:

" No matter how hard we work, chances are, we will never get treated the same as a White Male. " Until you truly get rid of this mentality, it will handicap you for the rest of your life. Stop comparing yourself to others, especially based on something as superficial as skin color. I believe this is one of the main sources of inequality in the US if you are persuaded that you CANT win, you won't even start the race, let alone assume your full potential. You might even be right, but you leave the next generation a better nation if you remove this mentality and not pass it on.

Minorities should just try to behave normally and be the best versions of themselves they can be. The world will notice (already has).

 

[deleted171991]

What do you think about Germany's ban of Nazi symbology anywhere outside the contexts of "art or science, research or teaching" ?

I think it was easier there, because it was done immediately after WWII. Same with toppling Communist symbols and statues in Eastern Europe, or traces of Saddam Hussein's dictatorship in Iraq. It's much easier when a huge part of the population feels like that, and there is a form of revolution.

It's harder when, to some people, that confederate flag or statue means cultural identity and traditions, to others it's just a symbol of slavery and racism. To many Southerners the Civil War the North fought was about money and power, not human rights. I assume to some of them, banning the confederate flag (including from state flags) is like saying Americans are not allowed to fly the Stars And Stripes because of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, or the many other atrocities we have committed around the world. It's not as easy as with Nazi symbols, which where there for like 10 years, and had no traditional meaning for the German nation.

And people are complex and imperfect. Just because Wagner was an antisemite, he was still a great composer. Just because Jefferson owned slaves (like most people in the South at that time), he was still a great mind and one of our Founding Fathers. One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist, so this kind of cultural cleansing should be done by the entire community with a cold head, and trying to hurt as few people as possible.

We shouldn't judge past actions based on modern standards. It's like punishing them for thinking the Earth was flat. That's how they were raised and educated, that's what seemed normal (let's not mention the HUGE role of social pressure and need for conformity).

I think African Americans would gain tremendous points with Southern whites if they tolerated those confederate flags and other similar symbols, and saw them mostly as signs of cultural pride, not racism. Same for the heroes the Southerners worship for fighting for those lands (or at least those who haven't been horrible people). People don't like other people messing with their traditions, history and legends, even if delusional or morally wrong.

 

[chocomorsel]

BTW, does


Not all racial inequities are due to racism nor is their an effective means for you or anyone else to quantify such a metric.

For example, earlier in this thread you acknowledged the fact that the black community is disproportionately violent. However, you glossed right over my question regarding the extent to which this explains this disparity in police use of force. So, how much disparity are you willing to tolerate so that the police can target those who hunt young, black men (i.e. other young black men). If your answer is zero disparity, then enjoy cities like Baltimore and East St Louis.




Do you believe that blacks are in America today? If so, by who?

And, if you believe this, then I certainly hope that you support a robust Second Amendment right. I’m always intrigued by people who in the same breath argue that only the government should have guns, and then try to argue that they are being hunted by the government. It makes me think that they either don’t believe their own argument or are pathetic.

For the record, I believe that many innocent members of the black community are hunted...just not by the cops.

I am not going to agree with LeBron than Blacks are "hunted", no. I am going to say for sure that they are targeted by the police yes. The police are the ones who in large quantities are patrolling these poor, inner city neighborhoods where there is a lot of poverty and intertwined violence, so yeah, black males are targets of the police. And yes, they are committing violent crimes, which we have all acknowledged, but again, maybe if the Police went in and changed their approach, there would be better outcomes for everyone all around.

However, just because I disagree with LeBron, does not mean what he feels is in fact wrong. It's how he feels growing up in this country.

You keep bringing up Baltimore and East St Louis but you yourself are glossing over what happened in Camden NJ.

Again, my answer is better equality, as I know and have already said complete equality does not exist anywhere. One example would be, stop pulling over young black men by racially profiling them when they have a busted tail light at a different rate than you are pulling over their white counterparts.

I never said ALL racial inequity is due to racism. A large majority of the racial inequity in this country stems from racism. That is hard fact no matter which way you try to spin it.

You seem to like to live in a world of extremes. Every time someone brings up a point you want to make it an all or none phenomenon in order to attempt to prove your point. I have said repeatedly that this is not a simple black or white issue, nor is it an all or none issue. And I am not using the black or white in a racial sense here. Talking about extreme opposites.

 

[Lawpy]

Toppling Confederate statues and flags is definitely necessary and justified. That should've been done years ago but i'm glad the protests are finally pushing for this change.

 

[crash2500]

Sorry, I misremembered (and was too lazy to dig it up). Mea culpa.

As somebody who's been discriminated my entire life for my name, currently also for my accent, this piece of advice is golden:

Minorities should just try to behave normally and be the best versions of themselves they can be. The world will notice (already has).

One can acknowledge the racial inequities in this country and still have a great work ethic and succeed. Just because you acknowledge them doesn't mean you have a 'can't win' attitude. If that was the case, I'd say most people arguing that there are inequities in this forum wouldn't be on this forum as physicians.

However, not bringing light to these inequities and ignoring them only makes them further ingrained in our society and does nothing to improve it.

 

[deleted171991]

Are you saying that Jews "hunted" today?

Not at all. I was just referring to the Holocaust. They were the first example for "hunted" people (i.e. exterminated like cockroaches) that came to mind. There are many others, I am sure.