There Be Basics WW 2021

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Animal Midwife said:
Mhm. I might pass you off to the other villagers to interrogate directly if you're going to lay square eggs loaded with personal attacks when I'm simply ISOing you.
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I’m not interrogating anyone. Gosh you must be a peach in real life
 
Can anyone please explain what the midwife is discussing About me and a bus and being the only candidate. She refuses to answer my question.
 
LaineyLou said:
Can anyone please explain what the midwife is discussing About me and a bus and being the only candidate. She refuses to answer my question.
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She is saying that out of the people who voted to yeet Genny, that you are the only one she is considering as possibly a wolf who "threw her under the bus" (basically when a wolf votes to yeet/throws suspicion on another wolf)
 
LaineyLou said:
Can anyone please explain what the midwife is discussing About me and a bus and being the only candidate. She refuses to answer my question.
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Sometimes it feels like AM is missing the question on purpose, and later or to others it will eventually murkily become clear that she didn't quite get what your question was, and she wasn't purposefully being difficult. I think. I don't know but the last few disagreements I had with her was in this vein.
 
Animal Midwife said:
Anyway, if there's a bus on genny, Lou is the only candidate. I don't see any other wolves on her the way the wagon formed and what time she voted/first called out genny.

She can stay in my POE for the singular deep wolf. I want the powerwolves gone first though.
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I am also concerned that Lou on genny was a late bus attempt.
 
sunshinefl said:
AM, how do you mix sketchiness with helpful posts? Every time I make my mind up on you, you post something helpful. But on the other hand, maybe you are just sooo good at villager AM probing for a weakness, wolf AM is able to find minor things to highlight to cast suspicion on others while also looking helpful.

Anyone here play with wolf AM before?? Looking at the roster, maybe Dina, Cray, Kras, and WZ.
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Sadly the only time I can truly clearly recall the firsthand experience of what it was to play with Wolf!Wife was after getting to lylo with her and Wild Zoo. And I had no idea really it was her until she preceded to turn on me and convinced WZ to lynch me for a village loss. It felt like something out of a horror film and it still haunts my nightmares to this day. Thinking about it too hard makes me queasy. No exaggeration here.

But, the moment I knew it was AM and it was that "Wolf! Get my gun!" Moment was like basically all of the others - the first one I had with Mel, the one with April recently, and to a lesser extent genny (wasn't a get my gun moment but the theme is going to make sense) - there is a breakdown in where you no longer believe they are being internally consistent and believing what they say. Genny - I found her "conviction" D1 that WZ was not just non-village but the specific flavor of chaos, just beyond what I think genny would really think. What was she basing it on? Her love of chaos theory? What might be true for one player to think won't be for another. Someone else might come to that conclusion for real, but it seemed a bit much from genny.

In the case of AM that game, I didn't really see it until she was seemingly twisting my words and misunderstanding me to the point that I could only conclude was on purpose. Which it was. One issue with AM is that can seem like something she's often doing to someone. The only real difference I can tell, is that if you engage in the painful long process with her, she will eventually be satisfied, which doesn't mean that she will village read you when you are village - Village AM is not a perfect reader - but eventually the convo ends and she will come to some sort of conclusion which she will or won't share with you how she came to it. The big difference with Wolf!Wife was that she didn't leave it at that and pushed her read.

As much as AM pushes interrogation, there's a certain way she tries to get people to vote with her. It doesn't feel manipulative. She isn't trying to "make" you or any other given person vote a certain player. Maybe she wants you to use a certain process like when and how, but not who. Now words are starting to fail me on how to describe the way Village AM tries to get consensus and people on a vote, and the way Wolf!Wife did. I think, but she may say I'm wrong, that she's said before that is what makes wolfing towards endgame much harder for her than as a villager. A wolf must manipulate, especially when a wolf is up for vote and at lylo. No matter how villagey you are being, you are not simply trying to let the truth as you know and believe it make its case for itself. A wolf's job is fundamentally different than a villager's. The game is fundamentally different at endgame because it is not about objective truth about people's motives (wolf or non-wolf) but it is all about what deceptions and emotions can get someone to vote the way you want. A villager can even afford for the vote to go against their very self in a way that still allows for action with a purity of purpose for the truth, before lylo. At lylo that gets a little more complicated - a vote for one's self will result in loss, so as always it complicates the pursuit of truth but never moreso than at lylo. But at no point is a wolf's actions or motives about truth. And it is never more about manipulation than when they are trying to put the vote on that last villager. That saying the "wolves circling" you can start to see/feel the change in the thread tone like sharks circling in the water around you, as the wolf voices literally start to equal/overtake village's.

Wow. I wrote a novella dedicated to AM meta that turned into rambling that I'm sure she and a bunch of other people hate, and human memory and perception is such I can't tell you if it's any good.

I hope it helps you wolfhunt.
 
I made the mistake of opening this as I was drifting to sleep lol. I will read again when I awake but I wanted to emphasize this part. I have often seen AM be this way, and in the emoji game felt like she was doing that to me. And she was village. But yes I guess she did let it go eventually.

“In the case of AM that game, I didn't really see it until she was seemingly twisting my words and misunderstanding me to the point that I could only conclude was on purpose. Which it was. One issue with AM is that can seem like something she's often doing to someone.”
 
sunshinefl said:
AM, how do you mix sketchiness with helpful posts? Every time I make my mind up on you, you post something helpful. But on the other hand, maybe you are just sooo good at villager AM probing for a weakness, wolf AM is able to find minor things to highlight to cast suspicion on others while also looking helpful.

Anyone here play with wolf AM before?? Looking at the roster, maybe Dina, Cray, Kras, and WZ.
Click to expand...
I have and I've never caught her lol I have a really hard time pulling the trigger on her

The "guns don't kill people, swans kill people" line in my signature is a reference to one such game
 
LaineyLou said:
Just look at the first freaking post you asked me to write!!!! I wrote why I thought genny was my wolf lean. Gosh damn you’re so freaking petty and quite honestly a child
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Drop the personal attacks and keep it to gameplay remarks, k? Not cool.
 
Animal Midwife said:
I'm going to be working on this for probably the next couple hours. So before everyone disappears, do you want my own interactions with genny or will you be doing your own research?
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I hate doing my own work
Crayola227 said:
Ugh the issue here is vagueness and everything she said, is both essentially true and NAI. She's not really taking a stand on anyone in this particular game as much as referencing meta.
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Agree
Crayola227 said:
That doesn't feel like a noob wolf move to have voted genny like that, but maybe I'm projecting how much it freaks me out to place a vote on a fellow wolf unless I'm truly desperate.
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IDK, I've seen a lot of new wolves do a lot of bussing unless they're told not to lol I think it would be a mistake to move shorty out of the POE at this point based on that alone, especially since she didn't stick with the vote
Animal Midwife said:
I find it hard to believe genny forgot to interact with one of her partners all day (until this borderline off-topic debauchery). That, in addition to backing Zenge up which she had the stronghold on the genny yeet, makes me want to move her out of the immediate POE. Taking please off.
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I'm not sure I agree with this one
 
LaineyLou said:
Why don’t you just read what you quoted and you’ll have all the answers. I’m not retyping things to please you
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I think that was a fair question for her to ask you given that reads often change after someone dies, aka more information is on the table for consideration
 
The April vote is everything. If you assume AM is a wolf, her April vote makes sense.

You can come up with reasons why Village AM might have done that, but at the end of the day, none of those reasons make as much sense as the simple explanation that AM is a wolf.

It seems like a classic “when you hear hoofs, think horses, not zebra” situation.
 
Night 1

RRLt.gif


After an eventful first day, the players decided to have some fun. One drank milk after studiously working on a vote tracker. Others decided to go venturing about.

When morning role call commenced, it was noted that one was missing. Wait. Make that two!

One group came upon a grisly scene. It was posited that DubZ had been star gazing but all that remained were charred bones.

Dead is @WildZoo - Pirate, vanillager.

Another group came back with a similar report. Her room was filled with piles of ash.

Also dead is @Animal Midwife - Pirate, vanillager

Fear not, comrades! Or...maybe you have right to fear?


15 players remain
2. @Dinashadow
4. @supershorty
5. @Aprilthearab
6. @Ms Procrastinator
8. @alleycat03
9. @vetschoolsletmeinplease
10. @LaineyLou
11. @Zenge142
12. @sunshinefl
13. @kraskadva
14. @Viscernable
15. @DrRoRo
16. @Crayola227
17. @PhiloslothicalStudent
18. @Acehunter123

Dead/Lost to Sea/Space
7. @genny - Dragon, vanilla wolf
1. @Animal Midwife - Pirate, vanilla villager/vanillager
3. @WildZoo - Pirate, vanilla villager/vanillager


It is now Day 2. Yeet/Vote deadline is at 10pm EST (9pm CST/8pm MST/7pm fantasyland) on Monday, 2/8/2021.


~*~*~*Table of Contents*~*~*~


@Lawpy
@Cyndia
@Doggo Labs
@holdthemayo
 
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supershorty said:
I'm going to ISO Dina, Ace, and Lainey this morning. I wasn't originally reading Lainey as wolfy, but the fighting with AM paired with AM's death is kind of sketchy to me. Sloth is still my top wolf read.
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I was in the middle of typing this and you beat me to it. I know then there's the whole thing of "Would Lainey really fight with AM right before she killed her?" And it's getting into WIFOM territory, but I will say in the last game, Kras purposefully got into a fight with AM right before she killed her so that people would say "No, that's too obvious."
 
kaydubs said:
Night 1

RRLt.gif


After an eventful first day, the players decided to have some fun. One drank milk after studiously working on a vote tracker. Others decided to go venturing about.

When morning role call commenced, it was noted that one was missing. Wait. Make that two!

One group came upon a grisly scene. It was posited that DubZ had been star gazing but all that remained were charred bones.

Dead is @WildZoo - Pirate, vanillager.

Another group came back with a similar report. Her room was filled with piles of ash.

Also dead is @Animal Midwife - Pirate, vanillager

Fear not, comrades! Or...maybe you have right to fear?


15 players remain
2. @Dinashadow
4. @supershorty
5. @Aprilthearab
6. @Ms Procrastinator
8. @alleycat03
9. @vetschoolsletmeinplease
10. @LaineyLou
11. @Zenge142
12. @sunshinefl
13. @kraskadva
14. @Viscernable
15. @DrRoRo
16. @Crayola227
17. @PhiloslothicalStudent
18. @Acehunter123

Dead/Lost to Sea/Space
7. @genny - Dragon, vanilla wolf
1. @Animal Midwife - Pirate, vanilla villager/vanillager
3. @WildZoo - Pirate, vanilla villager/vanillager


It is now Day 2. Yeet/Vote deadline is at 10pm EST (9pm CST/8pm MST/7pm fantasyland) on Monday, 2/8/2021.


@Lawpy
@Cyndia
@Doggo Labs
@holdthemayo
Click to expand...
Murders look to be similar methods, perhaps coincidence... perhaps not
 
ISOed Dina and found a couple quotes that pinged me a little bit.
Dinashadow said:
This is my first time playing with Sloth, but my impression is while there have been some irregularities in their reads, my immediate reaction is that they're newer to the game and not reading thread as well vs if they were wolfing (especially for the first time) they'd spend a little more time fleshing them out and asking other wolves before posting.
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I mentioned before that sloth is my strongest wolf read right now, and defense of sloth then automatically makes me question the person who is defending them.
Dinashadow said:
🤔

Unyeet MsP

genny's wagon has stalled for most of the day which makes me think she might be a bad yeet

yeet April
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This was bizarre reasoning that really didn't age well given genny's flip.
Dinashadow said:
There was a lot of votes on genny and Lainey put a vote down and it just felt off to me, like there wasn't a ton of pressure against it that I normally was expecting so that's why I chose your wagon instead. I'm not going to try to defend it anymore than that because I know it looks super wolfy.
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That it does.
Dinashadow said:
Alley, ace, kras, sloth, schools, and AM are who I'm going to be considering next. I have to go back and ISO tomorrow and narrow down that list

Shorty was pushing against genny earlier and put a vote on her which makes me move her down the list. I don't have enough info on Ro to want to put her in that list and who knows if MsP is going to show up
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This doesn't read as particularly wolfy, necessarily, but it's just echoing the list that others had already said. Not really contributing to wolf hunting, just riding on what others have said.
 
I really wanted to give Lainey some benefit of the doubt because she's so new, but going back through her posts, I have some questions. Many of her posts aren't really wolf hunting as much as they are just agreeing with what other people say. I wanted to chalk that up to being a noob and not being confident in making her own reads, but after a certain point, it just started to feel a little strange to me because she never actually gives reasoning behind it beyond "reasons" or no explanation at all.

LaineyLou said:
Like they're trying to overdo it? That I could see.
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LaineyLou said:
I can DEFINITELY see that, try to be inconspicuous but inadvertently being sketchy.
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LaineyLou said:
They’re definitely sus
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LaineyLou said:
I’m definitely questioning them because a few reasons. Why is your gut telling you to yeet them?
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LaineyLou said:
I definitely agree with wolf leans on sloth and AM for sure but unsure about Dina rn.
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Then there's the back and forth with AM. I initially didn't think anything of this and assumed Lainey was carrying over salt from the previous game, where AM killed her early on, so I didn't think there was anything more than that behind this quote:
LaineyLou said:
Ive always felt AM was sketch
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However, given that last night turned into an all-out brawl between them and now AM is a dead villager, this gives me the heebie jeebies.
LaineyLou said:
It’s not because her aggression, it’s more of her not calling out Gennys self pres vote. (Which I think I understand better now)
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This is another example of her sort-of bandwagoning onto other's ideas - in this case, the misunderstanding of what AM meant by self-prezzing. Again, by itself, not necessarily something that pings me, but because it's a consistent pattern, I start to wonder a little more.
LaineyLou said:
Just look at the first freaking post you asked me to write!!!! I wrote why I thought genny was my wolf lean. Gosh damn you’re so freaking petty and quite honestly a child
Click to expand...
This was early in things getting a little out of control. Again, I've been reading Lainey as fairly neutral until this morning's revelation, but I'm starting to have second thoughts. I'd like to see more from her today with her own reads and interpretations/explanations (beyond saying really general things like "a few reasons").
 
supershorty said:
I really wanted to give Lainey some benefit of the doubt because she's so new, but going back through her posts, I have some questions. Many of her posts aren't really wolf hunting as much as they are just agreeing with what other people say. I wanted to chalk that up to being a noob and not being confident in making her own reads, but after a certain point, it just started to feel a little strange to me because she never actually gives reasoning behind it beyond "reasons" or no explanation at all.


Then there's the back and forth with AM. I initially didn't think anything of this and assumed Lainey was carrying over salt from the previous game, where AM killed her early on, so I didn't think there was anything more than that behind this quote:

However, given that last night turned into an all-out brawl between them and now AM is a dead villager, this gives me the heebie jeebies.

This is another example of her sort-of bandwagoning onto other's ideas - in this case, the misunderstanding of what AM meant by self-prezzing. Again, by itself, not necessarily something that pings me, but because it's a consistent pattern, I start to wonder a little more.

This was early in things getting a little out of control. Again, I've been reading Lainey as fairly neutral until this morning's revelation, but I'm starting to have second thoughts. I'd like to see more from her today with her own reads and interpretations/explanations (beyond saying really general things like "a few reasons").
Click to expand...

Think of my bandwagoning more of “ohhhhh gotcha that does make sense” rather than me being sketchy. I’m still trying to learn all the things that are allowed and done in this game.

I’ve got work again today *ughhhhh* but I’ll send out my thoughts when I can!
 
Before I do my next bunch of ISOs, I just want to put these vote counts and times here so I can reference them later because I want to take a deeper look at the final genny and April wagons from last night.

genny (6): Zenge (2/6, 10:01 AM), sunshine (2/6, 4:58 PM), April (2/6, 6:11 PM), Vissy (2/6, 6:41 PM), Dubz (2/6, 7:09 PM), Lainey (2/6, 9:02 PM)
*Note: this is just the final tally, but I had a vote on genny that I placed at 10:27 AM, but then changed to Sloth at 4:15 PM)

April (5): Alley (2/5, 11:18 AM), Ace (2/5, 5:51 PM), AM (2/6, 9:14 PM - worth noting that AM had been on April previously, then changed to MsP, and then changed back to April), genny (2/6, 9:46 PM), Dina (2/6, 9:51 PM)
 
I’ll be looking into who was up last night and in the early morning. I feel like someone is trying to frame me. Like they saw Am and I arguing and then they thought ahhh perfect I’ll kill AM so it looks like I did it
 
supershorty said:
Before I do my next bunch of ISOs, I just want to put these vote counts and times here so I can reference them later because I want to take a deeper look at the final genny and April wagons from last night.

genny (6): Zenge (2/6, 10:01 AM), sunshine (2/6, 4:58 PM), April (2/6, 6:11 PM), Vissy (2/6, 6:41 PM), Dubz (2/6, 7:09 PM), Lainey (2/6, 9:02 PM)
*Note: this is just the final tally, but I had a vote on genny that I placed at 10:27 AM, but then changed to Sloth at 4:15 PM)

April (5): Alley (2/5, 11:18 AM), Ace (2/5, 5:51 PM), AM (2/6, 9:14 PM - worth noting that AM had been on April previously, then changed to MsP, and then changed back to April), genny (2/6, 9:46 PM), Dina (2/6, 9:51 PM)
Click to expand...

Would genny have tried to last minute vote on April (packmate) to try to keep herself alive? I mean it didn’t work but it’s one thought.
 
LaineyLou said:
I’ll be looking into who was up last night and in the early morning. I feel like someone is trying to frame me. Like they saw Am and I arguing and then they thought ahhh perfect I’ll kill AM so it looks like I did it
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Funny enough, this is the exact same argument I used as a wolf trying to hide Kras in the last game after she killed AM (that someone was trying to frame Kras). Interesting that it's getting used here as well
 
LaineyLou said:
Would genny have tried to last minute vote on April (packmate) to try to keep herself alive? I mean it didn’t work but it’s one thought.
Click to expand...
Are you saying you're reading April as wolfy? If so, please explain more.
 
supershorty said:
Before I do my next bunch of ISOs, I just want to put these vote counts and times here so I can reference them later because I want to take a deeper look at the final genny and April wagons from last night.

genny (6): Zenge (2/6, 10:01 AM), sunshine (2/6, 4:58 PM), April (2/6, 6:11 PM), Vissy (2/6, 6:41 PM), Dubz (2/6, 7:09 PM), Lainey (2/6, 9:02 PM)
*Note: this is just the final tally, but I had a vote on genny that I placed at 10:27 AM, but then changed to Sloth at 4:15 PM)

April (5): Alley (2/5, 11:18 AM), Ace (2/5, 5:51 PM), AM (2/6, 9:14 PM - worth noting that AM had been on April previously, then changed to MsP, and then changed back to April), genny (2/6, 9:46 PM), Dina (2/6, 9:51 PM)
Click to expand...
I feel like I'm getting a huge brain fart. What do the 2/5 and 2/6 things mean?
 
Aprilthearab said:
What exactly makes me look suspicious? v/v interactions are frequently confused for v/w interactions because villagers can sus each other just as much as they can sus wolves.
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These original thought by both individuals earlier in the game insinuating your suspicion and then they both ended up dead...?
When AM was asked about how she felt about you by WildZoo she responded...
Animal Midwife said:
Slightly wolfy.
Click to expand...
 
Acehunter123 said:
These original thought by both individuals earlier in the game insinuating your suspicion and then they both ended up dead...?
When AM was asked about how she felt about you by WildZoo she responded...
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So what do you think about Genny voting for April?
 
Acehunter123 said:
These original thought by both individuals earlier in the game insinuating your suspicion and then they both ended up dead...?
When AM was asked about how she felt about you by WildZoo she responded...
Click to expand...
Where did Dubz suspect me?
 
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