Two anesthesiologists murdered

[Twiggidy]

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So why not call your kid Greg instead of Jamal? Seems like a no brainer.

Because people should be able to maintain their culture. That's why not

 

[dhb]

Because people should be able to maintain their culture. That's why not

🤣

 

[ZzzPlz]

For those of us who carry concealed, I am curious as to how you store your firearms in your vehicles since they are not allowed in the hospital?

Any lawful suggestions ?

This varies by state and should be thoroughly discussed in any decent concealed carry class. In my state, as long as there is no locked gate limiting who can come in and out of a parking lot, it is perfectly legal to store a loaded weapon anywhere out of plain sight. Except for special government facilities like pgg mentioned, it is unlawful for businesses to deny you the right to carry a weapon in your car since the parking lot is not protected.
If the parking lot has a key card or guard checking badges then you must abide by the rules in the hospital.

 

[Twiggidy]

🤣

that response says everything i need to know

 

[DrCommonSense]

The one and only reason I haven't bought a gun for protection.....

Fla. woman Marissa Alexander gets 20 years for "warning shot": Did she stand her ground? - CBS News

vs

Zimmerman Is Acquitted in Trayvon Martin Killing

A few problems with this comparison:

1) We don't know her previous conviction history
2) She has no evidence of self defense when she shot through the wall that endangered her husband and kids
3) She had zero evidence of physical injury and just claimed he threatened her, so she decided to basically shoot the place up.
4) Both people involved were BLACK, so there is NO racial angle there.

Sounds like a decent conviction actually.

Compare to Zimmerman where we do know for a fact that:

1) Trayvon was beating Zimmerman's head into concrete when shot. Forensics clearly shows Zimmerman was on the ground getting pounded out and was under Trayvon when he shot him.

2) Trayvon hit Zimmer and then subsequently pounced on him further when he was down

3) Zimmerman has clear injuries and a plausible story

I know those facts kind've such when you want to put it as a purely "racial" thing though.

Also Zimmerman was HISPANIC whose mom immigrated to the country.

 

[Twiggidy]

A few problems with this comparison:

1) We don't know her previous conviction history
2) She has no evidence of self defense when she shot through the wall that endangered her husband and kids
3) She had zero evidence of physical injury and just claimed he threatened her, so she decided to basically shoot the place up.
4) Both people involved were BLACK, so there is NO racial angle there.

Sounds like a decent conviction actually.

Compare to Zimmerman where we do know for a fact that:

1) Trayvon was beating Zimmerman's head into concrete when shot. Forensics clearly shows Zimmerman was on the ground getting pounded out and was under Trayvon when he shot him.

2) Trayvon hit Zimmer and then subsequently pounced on him further when he was down

3) Zimmerman has clear injuries and a plausible story

I know those facts kind've such when you want to put it as a purely "racial" thing though.

Also Zimmerman was HISPANIC whose mom immigrated to the country.

Simultaneously missing and making my point. You literally gave reasons Marissa shouldn't not have fired and gave reasons (2 being Zimmerman's account vs the dead kid's account) of why it was ok for Zimmerman to fire.

The consequences of using a gun for some people aren't fair in the eyes of the law.

 

[DrCommonSense]

Simultaneously missing and making my point. You literally gave reasons Marissa shouldn't not have fired and gave reasons (2 being Zimmerman's account vs the dead kid's account) of why it was ok for Zimmerman to fire.

The consequences of using a gun for some people aren't fair in the eyes of the law.

What?

I clearly showed she had zero evidence of self defense.

Also, your attempt to make it "racial" is embarrassing considering literally zero Caucasians were involved in that shooting. She was trying to claim "self defense" against her husband when she literally shot through the walls of the house with kids present.

She had zero marks, she was able to leave by her own admission from the bathroom to get the gun, etc. It is clearly NOT self defense at that point.

"Stand your ground" doesn't mean go to your car, get your gun, shoot up a house with kids/husband present because you are angry at him for catching you CHEATING on him with ex husband.

She had ZERO marks on her and he NEVER hit her.

Also we DONT know her previous conviction history. For all I know, similar incidents have happened before with her.


Zimmerman's case was clearly self defense since Trayvon literally cracked Zimmerman in the head and then subsequently started to smash his head into the concrete.

Granted, Zimmerman should've never followed Martin in the first place but Trayvon is far from an innocent character.

Furthermore, I find it AMUSING you bring race into that issue as well when Zimmerman was HALF PERUVIAN with an IMMIGRANT MOTHER. It wasn't like Zimmerman was some deep Southern KKK member David Duke figure here.


Also, it wasn't JUST Zimmerman's testimony. It was the injuries he sustained, the way Trayvon was shot close range hanging on the top of Zimmerman, etc. Trayvon was clearly the aggressor when smashing Zimmerman into the ground at that point.

Why didn't Trayvon just hit and run? How do you explain the angle of the shooting if Trayvon wasn't on top of Zimmerman pounding him? How do you explain the injuries sustained by Zimmerman?

This doesn't negate that Zimmerman wasn't a clown with a hero complex that should NOT have followed ANYONE but just called the cops and backed off.

However, that doesn't give Martin the right to pound on him either or assault him due to being followed in a public area.

 

[doctalaughs]

Slavery ended in 1865 but yet as recently as 15 yrs ago, you're 50% more likely to get a job resume callback if your name is Emily or Greg vs Lakisha or Jamal, even if the qualifications are the same.

Employers' Replies to Racial Names

All this shows is that people are unconsciously more comfortable with familiar things. It also shows that people are hard wired - they cannot separate their past bad experiences with unrelated new things. It does not mean the resume readers are racist pigs.

Same concept behind people getting nervous and locking the car when a young black man in hoodie is following behind them. Until young black men stop committing crimes at a much higher rate this isn't racist. It's human nature and unchangeable. It's not fair to the innocent well intentioned young black man, but it's just rational behavior.




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[dhb]

that response says everything i need to know

 

[Twiggidy]

All this shows is that people are unconsciously more comfortable with familiar things. It also shows that people are hard wired - they cannot separate their past bad experiences with unrelated new things. It does not mean the resume readers are racist pigs.

Same concept behind people getting nervous and locking the car when a young black man in hoodie is following behind them. Until young black men stop committing crimes at a much higher rate this isn't racist. It's human nature and unchangeable. It's not fair to the innocent well intentioned young black man, but it's just rational behavior.




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so if it were a white guy in a hoodie, then it's cool. trust me, i get what you're saying but what you should be trying to do is tell all the white people how ridiculous the logic is because now you're walking around the world assuming all black men are criminals, which puts us in the racial problem we have already.

most serial killers are white men, so why aren't you locking your car or crossing the street when a white man walks by?

anywell, back to my point.... a black woman shot a warning shot and kill no one and got 20 years. a white guy killed a teenager and was got off. it's the reason why me as a black guy will not own a gun. i'll take my chances with the criminals because juries can't be trusted to be unbias.

 

[anonperson]

Here is the perfect case that just broke as to why the black community focuses on the wrong things:

Video shows moments after teen shot by Connecticut cop | Daily Mail Online

Here is a 15 year old kid who stole a car with a 21 y/o, rammed it into a police car and gets shot.

Instead of asking why this is such a common occurrence and how to prevent them from doing this, they immediately blame the police for shooting the kid and "not getting him attention fast enough".

They change the narrative to one of police brutality rather than the much bigger issue of criminality and bad behavior.

Also, what kind of minority are you?

I also don't get how my family who immigrated to the USA after slavery, never benefited or owned a slave, etc is now being "punished" for crimes of some slave owners mostly in the South (only 2% owned slaves) through Affirmative Action policies that discriminate against myself and others like me?

Why should the children of Johnny Cochran get extra points at Harvard because he is "black" over the poor white kid?

I'm a minority that doesn't benefit from AA. Actually am over represented in medicine and higher education in general so get dinged compared to other races/ethnicities.
When I was younger, I would get worked up about this and the fact that "undeserving" applicants or students were taking "my" spot. But the fact of the matter is, admissions etc is not a pure meritocracy.

You look at the Ivys, there are numerous articles that talk about there being an anti Asian bias for places like Harvard etc. Why none of this anger against an undeserving white kid who gets in because their daddy throws a couple of million at the university?

It's a bit disingenuous to pull out random news stories like the one above. I can do the same that are appalling:
How about this poor 15 year old black kid who was gunned down by a cop who was responding to a complaint of a bunch of teenagers partying at a house. Cop even lied about the story claiming the car was backing up and about to run him over.
Shooting of black teen in Dallas suburb did not meet ‘our core values,’ police chief says

Or Tamir Rice. Kid didn't even have a chance before he was gunned down within seconds of the cops getting there and I have no doubt in my mind if he was white, he would be alive and well. And Ohio is an open carry state so who knows what the cop was thinking.

 

[Twiggidy]

going back to the origins of this thread. I'm not sure the answer for two physicians being killed is for physicians to walk around packing heat. if it comes to a point where this profession or even this society is that dangerous to where I need a gun on me to protect myself, well, then it's time for me to move somewhere else.

maybe if we had better, dare I say, CONTROL of the guns that are in this country, this stuff wouldn't happen

 

[dhb]

it's the reason why me as a black guy will not own a gun.

So you do agree with me? 😉

 

[BLADEMDA]

going back to the origins of this thread. I'm not sure the answer for two physicians being killed is for physicians to walk around packing heat. if it comes to a point where this profession or even this society is that dangerous to where I need a gun on me to protect myself, well, then it's time for me to move somewhere else.

maybe if we had better, dare I say, CONTROL of the guns that are in this country, this stuff wouldn't happen

1. I'm advocating for home defense not concealed carry in the city streets of Boston (although I do believe you have that right)

2. The alleged murdered slashed the throats of his victims. The only real guns involved here were those held by the Police.

3. If you choose not to own a gun that is your right. Plenty of African Americans own and carry firearms legally throughout the USA.

4. Being Black won't help you or my neighbor if a thief decides to do your family or you harm.

 

[DrCommonSense]

so if it were a white guy in a hoodie, then it's cool. trust me, i get what you're saying but what you should be trying to do is tell all the white people how ridiculous the logic is because now you're walking around the world assuming all black men are criminals, which puts us in the racial problem we have already.

most serial killers are white men, so why aren't you locking your car or crossing the street when a white man walks by?

anywell, back to my point.... a black woman shot a warning shot and kill no one and got 20 years. a white guy killed a teenager and was got off. it's the reason why me as a black guy will not own a gun. i'll take my chances with the criminals because juries can't be trusted to be unbias.

If a White guy in a hoodie violently attacked a black guy that thought he was a "hero neighborhood watchman" in such a manner, I would support the black guy as self defense.

Has nothing to do with "assuming" anything about the black guy. I judge people on their ACTIONS.

Interesting how in "racist" Florida, this could happen huh:



White guy shot by black guy in self defense and THE BLACK GUY WAS EXONERATED for self defense. How do you explain this? Guess the racistdar turned off magically there in Ft Myers?

I don't have a problem with the black guy in this situation either. Guess that must be a fluke of racists like myself huh?


As to the "crossing the street when white man walks by vs black man", ask Jesse Jackson who was QUOTED as saying thus: “There is nothing more painful to me … than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery, then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved.”

Damn that Jesse Jackson is a RACIST too I guess huh?

I have already explained why that woman likely deserved 20 years as well.

 

[DrCommonSense]

All this shows is that people are unconsciously more comfortable with familiar things. It also shows that people are hard wired - they cannot separate their past bad experiences with unrelated new things. It does not mean the resume readers are racist pigs.

Same concept behind people getting nervous and locking the car when a young black man in hoodie is following behind them. Until young black men stop committing crimes at a much higher rate this isn't racist. It's human nature and unchangeable. It's not fair to the innocent well intentioned young black man, but it's just rational behavior.




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How does that explain Jesse then who is quoted as saying thus: “There is nothing more painful to me … than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery, then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved.”?

 

[DrCommonSense]

I'm a minority that doesn't benefit from AA. Actually am over represented in medicine and higher education in general so get dinged compared to other races/ethnicities.
When I was younger, I would get worked up about this and the fact that "undeserving" applicants or students were taking "my" spot. But the fact of the matter is, admissions etc is not a pure meritocracy.

You look at the Ivys, there are numerous articles that talk about there being an anti Asian bias for places like Harvard etc. Why none of this anger against an undeserving white kid who gets in because their daddy throws a couple of million at the university?

It's a bit disingenuous to pull out random news stories like the one above. I can do the same that are appalling:
How about this poor 15 year old black kid who was gunned down by a cop who was responding to a complaint of a bunch of teenagers partying at a house. Cop even lied about the story claiming the car was backing up and about to run him over.
Shooting of black teen in Dallas suburb did not meet ‘our core values,’ police chief says

Or Tamir Rice. Kid didn't even have a chance before he was gunned down within seconds of the cops getting there and I have no doubt in my mind if he was white, he would be alive and well. And Ohio is an open carry state so who knows what the cop was thinking.

What kind of "Asian" are you? When it comes to "discrimination", not all "Asians" are equal due to affirmative action quotas helping specific Asian groups.

Also, the MOST discriminated group by far in the Ivies are UNCONNECTED/POORER white males by statistics:

How Diversity Punishes Asians, Poor Whites and Lots of Others | Minding The Campus

Of note from this article: "When lower-class whites are matched with lower-class blacks and other non-whites the degree of the non-white advantage becomes astronomical: lower-class Asian applicants are seven times as likely to be accepted to the competitive private institutions as similarly qualified whites, lower-class Hispanic applicants eight times as likely, and lower-class blacks ten times as likely. These are enormous differences and reflect the fact that lower-class whites were rarely accepted to the private institutions Espenshade and Radford surveyed. Their diversity-enhancement value was obviously rated very low."

So ONLY RICH/CONNECTED Whites obtain any benefit from admissions (LIKE ANY OTHER CONNECTED GROUP). Non connected/working class/probably even middle class whites are the MOST discriminated group by far at that Ivies confirmed by the study cited in that long article.

For every Tamir Rice video, I can match you with this:

Two years later, the death of Gil Collar still haunts the University of South Alabama in Mobile

Black Cop shoots White 18 year UNARMED kid who is just taking drugs for acting erratically. Black cop was acquitted for the shooting.

Also here is a video/article of a WHITE MALE with a BB gun being shot by cops:

WARNING GRAPHIC: Man with BB gun shot by cops in Walmart | Daily Mail Online

In fact, there are >26 shootings/year by cops of people with BB guns or other fake guns that look real. Most are NOT black either.

Also, Tamir Rice's family got 6 million for that incident, how much do you think the other white kids who are killed by cops due to a BB gun get?

I see no evidence that more black kids are killed per capita than white kids with BB guns by police either.

 

[doctalaughs]

How does that explain Jesse then who is quoted as saying thus: “There is nothing more painful to me … than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery, then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved.”?

You and I agree - and that was the point of my post. Neither Jesse Jackson nor the white woman who locks her car are racist.

Like any rational person when you look at someone following you, your brain make some snap judgements based on prior experience and survival threat assessment - male or female, young or old, big or small, well-dressed or dressed-like-a-thug and yes race is part of that judgement.

Even Jesse Jackson admits it, and he's not racist. Just a normal rational person extrapolating decisions from prior data.

And serial murderers are about a ratio of 1 to a million compared to assault, robbery, gang shootings etc so that argument made prior about people fearing white males doesn't hold up.




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[anonperson]

What kind of "Asian" are you? When it comes to "discrimination", not all "Asians" are equal due to affirmative action quotas helping specific Asian groups.

Also, the MOST discriminated group by far in the Ivies are UNCONNECTED/POORER white males by statistics:

How Diversity Punishes Asians, Poor Whites and Lots of Others | Minding The Campus

Of note from this article: "When lower-class whites are matched with lower-class blacks and other non-whites the degree of the non-white advantage becomes astronomical: lower-class Asian applicants are seven times as likely to be accepted to the competitive private institutions as similarly qualified whites, lower-class Hispanic applicants eight times as likely, and lower-class blacks ten times as likely. These are enormous differences and reflect the fact that lower-class whites were rarely accepted to the private institutions Espenshade and Radford surveyed. Their diversity-enhancement value was obviously rated very low."

So ONLY RICH/CONNECTED Whites obtain any benefit from admissions (LIKE ANY OTHER CONNECTED GROUP). Non connected/working class/probably even middle class whites are the MOST discriminated group by far at that Ivies confirmed by the study cited in that long article.

For every Tamir Rice video, I can match you with this:

Two years later, the death of Gil Collar still haunts the University of South Alabama in Mobile

Black Cop shoots White 18 year UNARMED kid who is just taking drugs for acting erratically. Black cop was acquitted for the shooting.

Also here is a video/article of a WHITE MALE with a BB gun being shot by cops:

WARNING GRAPHIC: Man with BB gun shot by cops in Walmart | Daily Mail Online

In fact, there are >26 shootings/year by cops of people with BB guns or other fake guns that look real. Most are NOT black either.

Also, Tamir Rice's family got 6 million for that incident, how much do you think the other white kids who are killed by cops due to a BB gun get?

I see no evidence that more black kids are killed per capita than white kids with BB guns by police either.

Bro.

John Crawford III, you know, your so called WHITE MALE with a BB gun, is actually a BLACK MALE, who was gunned down in a Wal Mart.
Shooting of John Crawford III - Wikipedia

Can't even find a random story to fit your narrative.

Look, obviously I'm not going to change your mind, which is fine. It's the internet. Your life experiences have set your mind in one path.

 

[vector2]

All this shows is that people are unconsciously more comfortable with familiar things. It also shows that people are hard wired - they cannot separate their past bad experiences with unrelated new things. It does not mean the resume readers are racist pigs.

Did anyone else catch the irony of a bunch of people whining about affirmative action while simultaneously saying it's OK for an employer to discriminate against a name like Jamal?

Subconscious or not, that's the subtle racism of today's society. People who have this kind of racism pointed out to them, ignore it, and just go "oh golly gee shucks guess I'm wired this way and can never change" are unimaginative dullards who have likely never had an introspective moment in their entire lives.

 

[chocomorsel]

You may not believe police racism and victim culture are the major issues but I'm pretty sure this is the main item in the national dialogue right now.

Where is the grassroots outrage and "BLM"-type massive movement against deadbeat fathers, gang violence and careless attitudes towards getting an education? Instead of looking inward its all about blaming other groups. If the real racism in this country magically disappeared tomorrow, the black community would still be in about the same position for the foreseeable future.


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Yeah, I bet not. I bet a lot of blacks would be able to get the same blue collar jobs or white collar jobs that their white counterparts with the names of John, and Peter, and Susan get instead of Antwan, and LaMarcus, and Shaniqua get. Simply because of their names, sight unseen, lots of equally qualified blacks get their apps pushed to the side because of the "ethnic sounding names.". There have been studies to support that.

How many people on this website hire other people through their circle of friends/networks alone? And since most of the docs for example are White, they associate with other White people, who know other White doctors looking for jobs, and they connect them to a potential employer. Because lets face it, most people hang out with people that look like them and have the same/similar cultural background. Same happens in Cooperate America. And since most of those companies are still very White owned and white run, the people they are going to bring on thru networking/friends are going to be Whites. Unless they put an advert out there and don't ask for the names of the people who actually apply, there is going to be an implicit bias. Most of us, if not all of us have it. Even against fellow minorities. Because the media/and culture has brainwashed us about a lot of **** and we tend to stereotype from that. Let's face it, stereotypes do stem from some truth.

So, no, if racism totally disappeared, plenty of black folks would move up the ladder. And there would still be plenty who wouldn't because of ignorance and lack of education.

Let's not pretend that racism has nothing to do with the state of affairs of Black Americans today. Because it does. But keep living under your rock.

I thankfully have a "normal" English name and am from the African continent. So I get the benefit of the doubt a lot more often than my African American counterparts.

 

[chocomorsel]

Slavery was outlawed in 1865. No one is saying it didn't put a "generation or two" behind the curve. No one is saying racism isn't real for many minorities.

There are other races/minorities that have experienced slavery, constant discrimination or worse (genocide) around the world.

If you, your parents and your grandparents were not part of the oppression/atrocities it's time to move beyond the role of victim and take responsibility for your own successes or failures.


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Doctalaughs, I don't know how to tell you this, cuz it seems like you are living in a bubble. But racism, is still alive and well and continuing to keep plenty of minorities down. Maybe you aren't a racist and love all people equally, but you cannot speak for everyone.

 

[doctalaughs]

Yeah, I bet not. I bet a lot of blacks would be able to get the same blue collar jobs or white collar jobs that their white counterparts with the names of John, and Peter, and Susan get instead of Antwan, and LaMarcus, and Shaniqua get. Simply because of their names, sight unseen, lots of equally qualified blacks get their apps pushed to the side because of the "ethnic sounding names.". There have been studies to support that.

How many people on this website hire other people through their circle of friends/networks alone? And since most of the docs for example are White, they associate with other White people, who know other White doctors looking for jobs, and they connect them to a potential employer. Because lets face it, most people hang out with people that look like them and have the same/similar cultural background. Same happens in Cooperate America. And since most of those companies are still very White owned and white run, the people they are going to bring on thru networking/friends are going to be Whites. Unless they put an advert out there and don't ask for the names of the people who actually apply, there is going to be an implicit bias. Most of us, if not all of us have it. Even against fellow minorities. Because the media/and culture has brainwashed us about a lot of **** and we tend to stereotype from that. Let's face it, stereotypes do stem from some truth.

So, no, if racism totally disappeared, plenty of black folks would move up the ladder. And there would still be plenty who wouldn't because of ignorance and lack of education.

Let's not pretend that racism has nothing to do with the state of affairs of Black Americans today. Because it does. But keep living under your rock.

I thankfully have a "normal" English name and am from the African continent. So I get the benefit of the doubt a lot more often than my African American counterparts.

Thats the worst study I've ever seen.

How about we compare callbacks between Jamal and Mordechi?

How about Antwan vs Sook Choi?

They pick the most common names people are familiar with and compare them to those that the resume readers have rarely had interaction with. That doesn't prove racism, unconscious or conscious.

But of course racism is to blame for every failure....


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[chocomorsel]

Thats the worst study I've ever seen.

How about we compare callbacks between Jamal and Mordechi?

How about Antwan vs Sook Choi?

They pick the most common names people are familiar with and compare them to those that the resume readers have rarely had interaction with. That doesn't prove racism, unconscious or conscious.

But of course racism is to blame for every failure....


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Clearly your English comprehension sucks. Did I say it's to blame for EVERY failure?
I said it has it's blame for the state of the black affairs for some black people.

But keep spewing your one sided narrative and keep living in your White washed world where everything is roses, honey and opportunity.
You clearly don't care to understand. And open your eyes to the of black people. Tell me, do you have any minority friends? If you do, please talk to them and ask them to read this thread or ask them any of these questions.

And, I bet Sook Choi, and Mordecai would get a call back more often than Antwan. After all "Asians" are smart, and I have no Idea who Mordecai is, but it sounds European, so yeah, they would get a call back more often than Antwan.

Try, just a little to open your eyes. Just a tiny little bit.

 

[doctalaughs]

Doctalaughs, I don't know how to tell you this, cuz it seems like you are living in a bubble. But racism, is still alive and well and continuing to keep plenty of minorities down. Maybe you aren't a racist and love all people equally, but you cannot speak for everyone.

I've never said racism isn't real. Not once. There are plenty of racist people. With some notable exceptions, however, I don't think most (or even a sizable minority) of highly educated people (those doing the most hiring, admissions etc) are racist today though. I don't think many police are racist.

I do think affirmative action is damaging to blacks and other groups in terms of their reputation.

I think racism is a word used today to attack anyone who doesn't agree with certain group's agenda. The "PC" police ala south park are real.




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[chocomorsel]

I've never said racism isn't real. Not once. There are plenty of racist people. With some notable exceptions, however, I don't think most (or even a sizable minority) of highly educated people (those doing the most hiring, admissions etc) are racist today though. I don't think many police are racist.

I do think affirmative action is damaging to blacks and other groups in terms of their reputation.

I think racism is a word used today to attack anyone who doesn't agree with certain group's agenda. The "PC" police ala south park are real.




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Lets agree to disagree on this one. Show me the executives in the large corporate America and what percentage of them are Minorities or even women. And the double whammy, Minority women. Even though studies today are showing that Minority women today are starting to surpass whites in their attainment of college education.

But we have thoroughly derailed this thread.

 

[doctalaughs]

Lets agree to disagree on this one. Show me the executives in the large corporate America and what percentage of them are Minorities or even women. And the double whammy, Minority women. Even though studies today are showing that Minority women today are starting to surpass whites in their attainment of college education.

But we have thoroughly derailed this thread.

Ok I agree to disagree. And I'm more than open to good data, especially if those minority women have exactly equal qualifications for whatever position is under study (same caliber colleges, equal scores and work experience etc).

I would be fine with completely blind admissions, work applications etc. -- delete the name/sex altogether. But you then have to get rid of affirmative action as well. Cant have it both ways.

Thread derail done for me....


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[DrCommonSense]

Bro.

John Crawford III, you know, your so called WHITE MALE with a BB gun, is actually a BLACK MALE, who was gunned down in a Wal Mart.
Shooting of John Crawford III - Wikipedia

Can't even find a random story to fit your narrative.

Look, obviously I'm not going to change your mind, which is fine. It's the internet. Your life experiences have set your mind in one path.

As have your "life experiences".

My mistake on the color of the guy, looked pretty white but the video is grainy.

Regardless, statistically many are being shot for replica guns that look real that are pointed at cops. Maybe pointing fake guns that look real at cops isn't a good idea?

In two years, police killed 86 people brandishing guns that look real — but aren’t

 

[Twiggidy]

1. I'm advocating for home defense not concealed carry in the city streets of Boston (although I do believe you have that right)

2. The alleged murdered slashed the throats of his victims. The only real guns involved here were those held by the Police.

3. If you choose not to own a gun that is your right. Plenty of African Americans own and carry firearms legally throughout the USA.

4. Being Black won't help you or my neighbor if a thief decides to do your family or you harm.

I 100% agree with the right to bear arms even though the Constitution wasn't originally written to protect someone like myself. I don't think certain people, ie mentally ill, have that right. Once you've shown you're not of sound mind I think you forfeit that right. People with impaired vision can't drive or fly planes. Im not the "coming for your guns guy" and in reality I respect things such as marksmanship and would love to learn it myself. But our society definitely has a problem gun culture that needs to be solved and the onlu reason I brought up guns was because it was the 5th response to this thread.

In regard to the "being black in you neighborhood" comment. Im not sure how to respond because I never said being black afforded any extra protection or invincibility

 

[Colba55o]

DEMCAD can teach you something son, learn from him:


And yes he is using Glocks in the video. Sorry no S+W or revolvers involved

Not convinced that you care, but you referring to me as "son" ignited rage in me that I haven't felt in a long time. I'm afraid of what I might want to do if you called me that to my face.

That said, the subtle and not so subtle prejudices and biases that are so prevalent among you is disappointing. I know racists are plentiful, but how can we not be sure that the worst offenders among you are not treating your patients of color differently? Scary...

I never intended to start a conversation on race and crime and equality in general; I think it's too broad to talk about here but things people have said..wow. I simply pointed out that your RESPONSE to the murder in Boston, specifically encouraging people defend themselves with guns in their homes, was rooted in bias based on the the races of the killer and the victims. When a black immigrant kills two white anesthesiologists in their home you react differently than if a white guy had committed the crime. Again, I ask did you think of arming yourselves after Sandy Hook or the Charleston church shootings?

I without hesitation would try to dissuade any black patient from being cared for by Doctalaughs or Dr.CommonSense. You two have said such offensive things, no way could you put your racism aside in a clinical setting

 

[BLADEMDA]

I think this thread has run its course, at least for me it has. The posts are now more about race, racism, inequality, etc than the murder of two Anesthesiologists.

Honestly, if This had been a black, high powered Boston couple living in A 2 million dollar apartment who were murdered (no, slaughtered) by a white racist from Eastern Europe my posts would have been identical.

 

[psychbender]

When a black immigrant kills two white anesthesiologists in their home you react differently than if a white guy had committed the crime. Again, I ask did you think of arming yourselves after Sandy Hook or the Charleston church shootings?

Stop saying two white anesthesiologists. It was one white and one hispanic anesthesiologist, not that any of that should matter anyway, since the real important parts that made the story relevant to this forum were 'anesthesiologists' and 'murdered.' These were two of our colleagues that were brutally killed, their ethnicities and countries of origin are irrelevant.

Regarding the arming oneself remarks, if you read this forum at all, you'd see that most here recommend arming one's self for self defense whenever the topic comes up, and that race of the perpetrator and victims has nothing to do with it.



Sent from my SM-G930V using SDN mobile

 

[doctalaughs]

Not convinced that you care, but you referring to me as "son" ignited rage in me that I haven't felt in a long time. I'm afraid of what I might want to do if you called me that to my face.

That said, the subtle and not so subtle prejudices and biases that are so prevalent among you is disappointing. I know racists are plentiful, but how can we not be sure that the worst offenders among you are not treating your patients of color differently? Scary...

I never intended to start a conversation on race and crime and equality in general; I think it's too broad to talk about here but things people have said..wow. I simply pointed out that your RESPONSE to the murder in Boston, specifically encouraging people defend themselves with guns in their homes, was rooted in bias based on the the races of the killer and the victims. When a black immigrant kills two white anesthesiologists in their home you react differently than if a white guy had committed the crime. Again, I ask did you think of arming yourselves after Sandy Hook or the Charleston church shootings?

I without hesitation would try to dissuade any black patient from being cared for by Doctalaughs or Dr.CommonSense. You two have said such offensive things, no way could you put your racism aside in a clinical setting

Incredible you think you know someone is a bad doctor or treats minorities poorly based on differences in opinion on an internet forum.

I respect all my patients and treat them to the best of my abilities.

If you are so sensitive as to be enraged to the edge of violence by these comments, or by someone calling you "son," perhaps some introspection on your part is needed. I for one am happy to listen to others views without rage or name-calling.

But I agree this thread has truly run it's course and there's nothing productive left to be said.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[DrCommonSense]

Not convinced that you care, but you referring to me as "son" ignited rage in me that I haven't felt in a long time. I'm afraid of what I might want to do if you called me that to my face.

That said, the subtle and not so subtle prejudices and biases that are so prevalent among you is disappointing. I know racists are plentiful, but how can we not be sure that the worst offenders among you are not treating your patients of color differently? Scary...

I never intended to start a conversation on race and crime and equality in general; I think it's too broad to talk about here but things people have said..wow. I simply pointed out that your RESPONSE to the murder in Boston, specifically encouraging people defend themselves with guns in their homes, was rooted in bias based on the the races of the killer and the victims. When a black immigrant kills two white anesthesiologists in their home you react differently than if a white guy had committed the crime. Again, I ask did you think of arming yourselves after Sandy Hook or the Charleston church shootings?

I without hesitation would try to dissuade any black patient from being cared for by Doctalaughs or Dr.CommonSense. You two have said such offensive things, no way could you put your racism aside in a clinical setting

Damn you're a scary dude, maybe I shouldn't call you "son" in the future since you might hurt me and im pretty afraid of internet tough guys.

All this "subtle" racism I display yet nothing concrete huh? You don't like that I don't immediately agree with your BS about "racism" without critical thought.

Ergo, you just devolve into online threats and cries of "racism" in an attempt to shut down debate.

Liberalism 101.

 

[Hoya11]

Not sure why this case would bring feelings of racism or guns....

It should raise eyebrows on a field that I have been critical of for years now: Pain Management.

This is the kind of people you deal with. Psychos. Opiate addict, desperate, psychos. They will literally kill you for the pills.

Most of the patients just give in and have the injections to appease the doctor and keep the scripts flowing.

Opiate refills and injections done for the doctors benefit are what keeps this field going. Sure there are some legit stuff (less than 20%), but those interested in a pain fellowship beware.
The cool procedures and high income are not worth the scummy stuff you do. Get ready to deal with the worst people in the world, full time.

 

[narcusprince]

What?

I clearly showed she had zero evidence of self defense.

Also, your attempt to make it "racial" is embarrassing considering literally zero Caucasians were involved in that shooting. She was trying to claim "self defense" against her husband when she literally shot through the walls of the house with kids present.

She had zero marks, she was able to leave by her own admission from the bathroom to get the gun, etc. It is clearly NOT self defense at that point.

"Stand your ground" doesn't mean go to your car, get your gun, shoot up a house with kids/husband present because you are angry at him for catching you CHEATING on him with ex husband.

She had ZERO marks on her and he NEVER hit her.

Also we DONT know her previous conviction history. For all I know, similar incidents have happened before with her.


Zimmerman's case was clearly self defense since Trayvon literally cracked Zimmerman in the head and then subsequently started to smash his head into the concrete.

Granted, Zimmerman should've never followed Martin in the first place but Trayvon is far from an innocent character.

Furthermore, I find it AMUSING you bring race into that issue as well when Zimmerman was HALF PERUVIAN with an IMMIGRANT MOTHER. It wasn't like Zimmerman was some deep Southern KKK member David Duke figure here.


Also, it wasn't JUST Zimmerman's testimony. It was the injuries he sustained, the way Trayvon was shot close range hanging on the top of Zimmerman, etc. Trayvon was clearly the aggressor when smashing Zimmerman into the ground at that point.

Why didn't Trayvon just hit and run? How do you explain the angle of the shooting if Trayvon wasn't on top of Zimmerman pounding him? How do you explain the injuries sustained by Zimmerman?

This doesn't negate that Zimmerman wasn't a clown with a hero complex that should NOT have followed ANYONE but just called the cops and backed off.

However, that doesn't give Martin the right to pound on him either or assault him due to being followed in a public area.

I would like to pose another plausible scenario. When do you give vasopressin versus phenylephrine to the hypotensive heart failure pulmonary hypertensive patient. Imagine if we gave a stick of vaso to the untrained individual. We know the answer because we are trained personal taught and tested in live situations regarding action. The average gun owner black or white has little training in determining life threatening scenarios. Many of these unecessary shootings are the result of inexperienced personal.

 

[lobelsteve]

Yup, like 20% of anesthesia is legit and 80% is airway, bagel, coffee and babysitting CRNA's you have been training to take your job.

Not sure why this case would bring feelings of racism or guns....

It should raise eyebrows on a field that I have been critical of for years now: Pain Management.

This is the kind of people you deal with. Psychos. Opiate addict, desperate, psychos. They will literally kill you for the pills.

Most of the patients just give in and have the injections to appease the doctor and keep the scripts flowing.

Opiate refills and injections done for the doctors benefit are what keeps this field going. Sure there are some legit stuff (less than 20%), but those interested in a pain fellowship beware.
The cool procedures and high income are not worth the scummy stuff you do. Get ready to deal with the worst people in the world, full time.

 

[DrCommonSense]

I would like to pose another plausible scenario. When do you give vasopressin versus phenylephrine to the hypotensive heart failure pulmonary hypertensive patient. Imagine if we gave a stick of vaso to the untrained individual. We know the answer because we are trained personal taught and tested in live situations regarding action. The average gun owner black or white has little training in determining life threatening scenarios. Many of these unecessary shootings are the result of inexperienced personal.

Which shootings are you speaking about?

MSNBC's Joe Scarborough: Tiny fraction of crimes committed with legal guns

Statistics show that most gun violence in this country are committed by people who never went the legal route in obtaining a gun (even moreso for CCW people).

Why do you think legal gun owners are the issue with most shooters when its rare by the stats?

 

[DrCommonSense]

Not sure why this case would bring feelings of racism or guns....

It should raise eyebrows on a field that I have been critical of for years now: Pain Management.

This is the kind of people you deal with. Psychos. Opiate addict, desperate, psychos. They will literally kill you for the pills.

Most of the patients just give in and have the injections to appease the doctor and keep the scripts flowing.

Opiate refills and injections done for the doctors benefit are what keeps this field going. Sure there are some legit stuff (less than 20%), but those interested in a pain fellowship beware.
The cool procedures and high income are not worth the scummy stuff you do. Get ready to deal with the worst people in the world, full time.

Cool story bro.

Guess this applies to a practice that consists of patients >65 years old who are on minimal dosages of narcs?

You sound like you were running a crackhead central pain group that was mostly Medicaid and younger patients. Just because thats how you roll doesn't mean thats how everyone rolls.

The only times I feel "concerned" with druggie patients are ones who are clearly shopping around, mostly "disabled" on Medicaid and just want extreme dosages of narcotics. Those people are definitely not worth the hassle of "injections for narcs" since they will have bad UDS, lose narcs, shop around for docs, etc. Those people are easily removed by just saying simply "I don't think narcs are NOT appropriate for you considering your previous UDS screens, multiple scripts from various docs, behavorial health history, etc". Never found that difficult to accomplish with these people and far less draining than playing games with them.


Also, this case wasn't a former patient of this guy but some kind of security guard who got illegal access to his apartment in the most recent story, so your assumption is BS on top of it. Dude had a history of robberies and saw an easy "rich" target to hit.

 

[DrCommonSense]

Yup, like 20% of anesthesia is legit and 80% is airway, bagel, coffee and babysitting CRNA's you have been training to take your job.

Or by his logic, how about "exposing" often elderly patients to anesthetics that have been shown to "increase" dementia significantly for procedures that are "not helpful" including huge fusion surgeries for back pain, arthroscopic surgeries, labrum surgeries of the shoulders, most knee replacements that have been shown to be "cost ineffective" according to BMJ, prostate surgeries for early prostate CA, etc?

How many times do you step up to say "cost/benefit ratio" is "wrong" for these patients considering the outcomes of these surgeries noted by various medical journal "articles" whereby I am exposing patients to toxic anesthetics that will likely be very poor for their cognitive health, particularly in older age (in addition to MANY other morbidities of anesthesia)?

I know that I DEFINITELY performed MANY anesthetics on patients who were literally in nursing homes for "knee replacements" despite being immobilized in wheelchairs with zero chance for functional benefit. This was common in almost all types of ortho procedures actually, especially when combined with obesity.

How many fusions did I perform anesthetics for (including huge blood transfusions) that were in old patients that had "back pain" that were required to be under anesthesia for 4-6 hours at a time?

Don't tell me this type of corruption isn't common in the surgical world. I see this DAILY.

Unless you stand up to these abuses that go on DAILY for anesthesiologists (we all know you wouldn't or your butt is getting fired) then I wouldn't speak about "pain" while living in a glass house on this subject.

Dont even get me started on the vast majority of CABGs either. This article basically sums up the fact that vast majority of both stents and CABGs performed in this country have zero mortality benefit for patients yet expose them to huge morbidity.

How many of those CABG patients are you standing up for after reading this:

A Cardiac Conundrum

Coronary Heart Bypass Surgery for Prevention of Death – TheNNT

Oh thats right, none. But cool story about your heroism concerning "helping" patients and stuff, I found it amusing.

P.S. Long-term post-operative cognitive decline in the elderly: the effects of anesthesia type, apolipoprotein E genotype, and clinical antecedents Many other studies confirm longer term cognitive effects (particularly in patients with vascular problems) for elderly patients exposed to anesthesia. I figure that the majority of older patients have some form of vascular dementia already forming as well.

 

[DrCommonSense]

Yup, like 20% of anesthesia is legit and 80% is airway, bagel, coffee and babysitting CRNA's you have been training to take your job.

Also, lets not forget that CRNAs are equivalent to MDAs right?

https://www.aana.com/resources2/research/Documents/guestedit_0411_p101-105.pdf

RAND corporation, IOM and CRNAs have concluded that anesthesiologists are just crooks who have monopolized the anesthesiology market to maintain an artificially high salary. Couple this conclusion with that of anesthesiologists facilitating the performance of many surgical procedures that have been proven to be "ineffective or not cost effective" by BMJ, NEJM, JAMA, etc.

Not looking good for the "morality" argument of being an anesthesiologist right?

Very easy to paint others in a bad light huh?

 

[narcusprince]

Which shootings are you speaking about?

MSNBC's Joe Scarborough: Tiny fraction of crimes committed with legal guns

Statistics show that most gun violence in this country are committed by people who never went the legal route in obtaining a gun (even moreso for CCW people).

Why do you think legal gun owners are the issue with most shooters when its rare by the stats?

Not legal or illegal my argument is INEXPERIENCED. How many cases do you have to do before you graduate residency?

 

[narcusprince]

The battered wife whom points the weapon in the air and pulls the trigger. The civil watchmen whom shoots the young man after an altercation. It takes us 12 years to keep someone ALIVE. WHY DOES IT TAKE 2-3 days to have the tools to kill someone.

 

[chocomorsel]

Yup, like 20% of anesthesia is legit and 80% is airway, bagel, coffee and babysitting CRNA's you have been training to take your job.

Well, there are plenty of us who sit in on our own cases and barely have time to get coffee and a bagel, or even pee.

 

[deleted87051]

I know that I DEFINITELY performed MANY anesthetics on patients who were literally in nursing homes for "knee replacements" despite being immobilized in wheelchairs with zero chance for functional benefit. This was common in almost all types of ortho procedures actually, especially when combined with obesity.

How many fusions did I perform anesthetics for (including huge blood transfusions) that were in old patients that had "back pain" that were required to be under anesthesia for 4-6 hours at a time?

In what universe or part of the country does this happen?

I've been in practice for over 20 years and NEVER done a TKR on a nonambulatory nursing home patient. Same with back fusions. We don't do them on old people. The patients are almost always in their 40-60s. My entire career has been in California. Maybe the gatekeepers are appropriately tougher out here.

 

[pgg]

The battered wife whom points the weapon in the air and pulls the trigger. The civil watchmen whom shoots the young man after an altercation. It takes us 12 years to keep someone ALIVE. WHY DOES IT TAKE 2-3 days to have the tools to kill someone.

Well, armed self defense is a civil right guaranteed by the #2 slot in our Constitution's Bill of Rights, and the independent practice of medicine in our specialty requires residency certificate and all of its prerequisites (undergrad degree, MD or DO, state medical license).

And it only takes 2-3 days (or more) in the states that have less respect for the Constitution. In free states it only takes as long as an instant background check and a credit card swipe.


It's really unfortunate that some people who are minorities are reluctant to exercise this most basic of civil rights, for fear of what the police and judicial system might do to them. (I totally understand their concerns.) They are arguably the ones who need it most. Black Americans were the targets of the first real efforts of gun control in the post Civil War era, and racists it kept going all the way through the 1960s civil rights movement. California lost open carry rights because a bunch of Republican racists didn't like the Black Panthers. One of the great sins of the Democratic party has been convincing law abiding poor minorities that gun control is in their best interest.

I want to see more stories like this one:

The age of Trump is producing more black gun owners

 

[Gern Blansten]

Not convinced that you care, but you referring to me as "son" ignited rage in me that I haven't felt in a long time. I'm afraid of what I might want to do if you called me that to my face.

That said, the subtle and not so subtle prejudices and biases that are so prevalent among you is disappointing. I know racists are plentiful, but how can we not be sure that the worst offenders among you are not treating your patients of color differently? Scary...

I never intended to start a conversation on race and crime and equality in general; I think it's too broad to talk about here but things people have said..wow. I simply pointed out that your RESPONSE to the murder in Boston, specifically encouraging people defend themselves with guns in their homes, was rooted in bias based on the the races of the killer and the victims. When a black immigrant kills two white anesthesiologists in their home you react differently than if a white guy had committed the crime. Again, I ask did you think of arming yourselves after Sandy Hook or the Charleston church shootings?

I without hesitation would try to dissuade any black patient from being cared for by Doctalaughs or Dr.CommonSense. You two have said such offensive things, no way could you put your racism aside in a clinical setting

 

[Twiggidy]

The battered wife whom points the weapon in the air and pulls the trigger. The civil watchmen whom shoots the young man after an altercation. It takes us 12 years to keep someone ALIVE. WHY DOES IT TAKE 2-3 days to have the tools to kill someone.

valid points

on quick internet search some police academy courses are as short as 19 weeks while San Diego is 6 months and LAPD is 6-9 months. of course they go into probation periods afterward where they work the streets. I found a firearms course in California that literally says on the site "We will take you from not having any experience with a firearm, to a Concealed Carry Advanced Level Shooter in 2 days. Shooting made easy."

2.....Days

How proficient were any of us at intubating or even putting in IVs in two days?

 

[Twiggidy]

Well, armed self defense is a civil right guaranteed by the #2 slot in our Constitution's Bill of Rights, and the independent practice of medicine in our specialty requires residency certificate and all of its prerequisites (undergrad degree, MD or DO, state medical license).

And it only takes 2-3 days (or more) in the states that have less respect for the Constitution. In free states it only takes as long as an instant background check and a credit card swipe.


It's really unfortunate that some people who are minorities are reluctant to exercise this most basic of civil rights, for fear of what the police and judicial system might do to them. (I totally understand their concerns.) They are arguably the ones who need it most. Black Americans were the targets of the first real efforts of gun control in the post Civil War era, and racists it kept going all the way through the 1960s civil rights movement. California lost open carry rights because a bunch of Republican racists didn't like the Black Panthers. One of the great sins of the Democratic party has been convincing law abiding poor minorities that gun control is in their best interest.

I want to see more stories like this one:

The age of Trump is producing more black gun owners

also valid points

 

[DrCommonSense]

The battered wife whom points the weapon in the air and pulls the trigger. The civil watchmen whom shoots the young man after an altercation. It takes us 12 years to keep someone ALIVE. WHY DOES IT TAKE 2-3 days to have the tools to kill someone.

I never agreed with Zimmerman's hero crap and DONT THINK he should've ever engaged Martin or followed him (especially since he was NOT appointed for that position).

I think Zimmerman was mostly a loser dude that didn't have much going for him so he wanted to "protect" the community after a bunch of robberies happened at his complex.

However, the vast majority of shootings in America are mostly illegal guns that are either stolen or bought off others.

I don't see an epidemic of NRA certified CCW people murdering people.