Two anesthesiologists murdered

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Hey, if I thought it was inappropriate I'd flex my giant modly powers and intervene. :) Thread just took a sharper than usual turn, that's all.

Members don't see this ad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user


For the bleeding hearts here. Smug superiority re: immigration is pretty cool right up until it's slitting your throat open.




Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
Members don't see this ad :)
Although capital punishment is now unconstitutional in Massachusetts, federal crimes committed in Massachusetts may still be subject to the death penalty. For example, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was sentenced to death by a federal court on May 15, 2015, for his role in the Boston Marathon bombing.

So, this murderer won't get the death penalty but he certainly deserves it. There are crimes where the death penalty is appropriate. This is one of those cases.

Judge Lisa Grant let the citizens of Boston down when she decided to play politics with the Cape Verdean Immigrant instead of enforcing the law regarding bank robbery. These two MDs are now dead due to this Judge's poor decision.

I think this case brings out clearly why you need your second amendment right to protect yourself.
 
Last edited:
As a non gun owner but father of two young kids I'm very concerned about the kids or their friends later on getting ahold of any gun I had for protection.

I already have a safe in my master bedroom bolted to the floor that could easily hold a firearm but I'm worried that if my wife or I needed it in the middle of the night it would take too long to get out of the safe. Ideally I'd have a shotgun easily accessible to me but out of reach of the kids. That's doable now but not once they are older.

The kids need to be taught about guns. If they understand how violent they can be they won't mess with them unsupervised. Start them early. Its the only way they know when they are danger when one of their friend is showing them their dads gun. Guns are here to stay. Keeping your kids in the dark about them is irresponsible.
 
Shotgun under the bed. Shells in my nightstand. Loaded in <10 seconds.

No sound more terrifying than the metallic click when loading a shell.
 
Although capital punishment is now unconstitutional in Massachusetts, federal crimes committed in Massachusetts may still be subject to the death penalty. For example, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was sentenced to death by a federal court on May 15, 2015, for his role in the Boston Marathon bombing.

So, this murderer won't get the death penalty but he certainly deserves it. There are crimes where the death penalty is appropriate. This is one of those cases.

Judge Lisa Grant let the citizens of Boston down when she decided to play politics with the Cape Verdean Immigrant instead of enforcing the law regarding bank robbery. These two MDs are now dead due to this Judge's poor decision.

I think this case brings out clearly why you need your second amendment right to protect yourself.

Should be held accountable as an accessory. Barring that, disbarment/disrobing at a minimum. If the family members of the secondary victims (the docs) sought their own form of Justice against her, I'd happily vote Not Guilty as a jury member.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I bought this as present for my wife's birthday. I think she would have preferred earrings
5767763_02_h_k_hk45c_with_3_mags__640.jpg
ings.;)

H&K really needs to make a VP9C. I'm not hefty enough to comfortably handle a .45, and the VP9 is too full-sized for EDC :(
 
H&K really needs to make a VP9C. I'm not hefty enough to comfortably handle a .45, and the VP9 is too full-sized for EDC :(

I agree with you. I ended up using low recoil .45 caliber bullets in the HK45C. My wife didn't handle the recoil well. She shoots 9mm much more accurately than any .45 caliber gun even with the low recoil ammo.

241451.jpg
 
Shotgun under the bed. Shells in my nightstand. Loaded in <10 seconds.

No sound more terrifying than the metallic click when loading a shell.
20 gauge rem 870, youth model. Ultimate self defense weapon.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
For the bleeding hearts here. Smug superiority re: immigration is pretty cool right up until it's slitting your throat open.

The killer and both victims were all legal immigrants.

We wouldn't need immigrants and illegals if Americans were willing to take low paying or demanding jobs (like penthouse security guard or physician). Let's remember those in the top income brackets, like the victims, are voracious consumers and drivers of illegal immigration (nannies, gardeners, construction workers, guards, maids, food service workers).
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
They were all immigrants.

He was from the U.K. (likely England) and she was from Columbia. But, the murder suspect was the only immigrant (out of the three) who had already committed a FELONY (Robbery) just a short time ago. Hence, that Immigrant should have been deported while the law abiding Physician immigrants went on with their lives (which they no longer have).

The system failed because the Judge, Lisa Grant, refused to enforce the law because she knew that the immigrant would have been deported (as he should have been due to the robbery conviction).

When an immigrant (legal or illegal) commits a felony then that person gets deported. period.

Kate Steinle's family files federal suit blaming - CNN.com
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
One of the last things you want to do if you are in the United States on a visa or green card is commit a felony. Immigration officials may deport you or downgrade your status on the basis of a felony or even a non-felony conviction, depending on your current status, the type of offense, and the specific facts surrounding your case.

Moreover, convictions for crimes involving "moral turpitude" or those labeled "aggravated felonies" carry harsh consequences for non-citizens. A non-citizen who commits an aggravated felony or a crime involving moral turpitude is generally ineligible for relief from deportation and often will be barred from reentering the U.S. in the future.

How Does a Felony Affect Immigration Status? - FindLaw
 
This is ****ing sickening.

Poor docs didn't deserve to go out that way man.

Especially not by some ****ing scum who had just been released from being incarcerated.

I guess the best way to live is not try to be a target.

No Benzes and bling bling for me.

RIP to the two docs though. Prayers out to their souls and their families. :(
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I don't think it's a John Wayne fantasy to plan to use lethal force to protect yourself and your family from a violent attack especially in your home.
A John Wayne fantasy is saving the damsel in distress from the Indians. I might have bought a Clint Eastwood fantasy though. That punk won't be feeling lucky if I'm home and he decides to come in anyway. If you're breaking in, and I'm here, and you know I'm here and keep coming anyway, that's all the cause I need to no longer value your life, because you clearly don't value mine or my families. PS good luck with the dogs.


--
Il Destriero
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users
The kids need to be taught about guns. If they understand how violent they can be they won't mess with them unsupervised. Start them early. Its the only way they know when they are danger when one of their friend is showing them their dads gun. Guns are here to stay. Keeping your kids in the dark about them is irresponsible.
As a parent of two young children, I shudder at this. There is A TON of data that one of the biggest threats to young kids is guns in the house. That is a FAR bigger risk than someone breaking into your house and putting you at risk.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
any suggestions on what type of gun to get for someone not particular big and strong?
also, any suggestions on which type of courses/training to get for a new comer?

thanks
 
As a parent of two young children, I shudder at this. There is A TON of data that one of the biggest threats to young kids is guns in the house. That is a FAR bigger risk than someone breaking into your house and putting you at risk.

I agree a toddler should not be able to access condition 0-3 firearms. Firearm education, however, is the exact opposite of leaving guns around the home with small children present.

If there are firearms present in the household, it should be the responsibility of parents to teach children to respect them. It is a citizen's right to own and use firearms. Therefore it is reasonable to expect those who choose to exercise that right to properly educate other family members regarding firearm safety.

I got a BB gun when I was 6, started shooting semi-autos and .22LR at 7-8, which is also around the time I learned to ride a motorcycle and drive a car. Once around 12-13 just when you're at that age trying to be cool a friend of mine got out his dad's guns when we were home alone. A couple AR15s and semi-auto handguns. I remember knowing exactly what they were, how to operate them, being concerned because my friend didn't seem to know how to handle them, and feeling like my friend was being an idiot for even getting them out.
 
He was from the U.K. (likely England) and she was from Columbia. But, the murder suspect was the only immigrant (out of the three) who had already committed a FELONY (Robbery) just a short time ago. Hence, that Immigrant should have been deported while the law abiding Physician immigrants went on with their lives (which they no longer have).

The system failed because the Judge, Lisa Grant, refused to enforce the law because she knew that the immigrant would have been deported (as he should have been due to the robbery conviction).

When an immigrant (legal or illegal) commits a felony then that person gets deported. period.

Kate Steinle's family files federal suit blaming - CNN.com

I'm sure the judge isn't alone. it's what happens when you let a person make these types of decisions. Emotions will sway their decisions and there aren't that many consequences for the judge for doing it. Computers should replace judges
 
Blade, what you recommend for a first time buyer? Springfield Mod.2 SC vs S&W Bodyguard vs VP9Sk

Looking for CC and one for wife.

I really like that Springfield for CC; it's a nice gun. For the wife, I also recommend the Ruger LCRs- at least look at them. They offer .38, 9mm and .22LR. Otherwise, get the S and W Bodyguard for the wife.

Ruger® LCR® * Double-Action Revolver Models
 
I'm surprised that so many physicians that took Hippocratic oaths to do no harm are so comfortable with having guns in their homes.
We like to talk about evidence based medicine. Is there evidence to show that having a gun in one's home makes one safer? Do we hear more stories of people who defend themselves from home intruders with their own firearms, then we do of crimes committed by stolen firearms? If a burglar can break into your home while youre asleep why can't he break in and steal your gun when you're gone?
I agree this story in Boston was tragic, but I'm more likely to die from a cause other than a home invasion given my lifestyle, eating habits, driving habits etc. So many more ominous threats exist, but some of you focus on having a gun to kill a "scumbag"
This Boston story resonates so strongly with you because the victims were wealthy white doctors, and the shooter was a black immigrant. When Dylan Roof killed all those people at church in South Carolina, did you all think of having guns inside your churches? I bet not.
Having a gun inside your home doesn't make sense. Is it any wonder that countries that outlaw personal guns have such low shooting rates??
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
I think church shootings are definitely something that most people with this mindset are definitely concerned with. Around here most churches of any size have real security (off duty cops) during services and small churches typically keep someone watching the door, and multiple concealed weapons in the pews. I know I carry every Easter when my wife makes me go.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I'm surprised that so many physicians that took Hippocratic oaths to do no harm are so comfortable with having guns in their homes.
We like to talk about evidence based medicine. Is there evidence to show that having a gun in one's home makes one safer? Do we hear more stories of people who defend themselves from home intruders with their own firearms, then we do of crimes committed by stolen firearms? If a burglar can break into your home while youre asleep why can't he break in and steal your gun when you're gone?
I agree this story in Boston was tragic, but I'm more likely to die from a cause other than a home invasion given my lifestyle, eating habits, driving habits etc. So many more ominous threats exist, but some of you focus on having a gun to kill a "scumbag"
This Boston story resonates so strongly with you because the victims were wealthy white doctors, and the shooter was a black immigrant. When Dylan Roof killed all those people at church in South Carolina, did you all think of having guns inside your churches? I bet not.
Having a gun inside your home doesn't make sense. Is it any wonder that countries that outlaw personal guns have such low shooting rates??

Cue @pgg in 5-4-3-2. . .
 
I'm surprised that so many physicians that took Hippocratic oaths to do no harm are so comfortable with having guns in their homes.
We like to talk about evidence based medicine. Is there evidence to show that having a gun in one's home makes one safer? Do we hear more stories of people who defend themselves from home intruders with their own firearms, then we do of crimes committed by stolen firearms? If a burglar can break into your home while youre asleep why can't he break in and steal your gun when you're gone?
I agree this story in Boston was tragic, but I'm more likely to die from a cause other than a home invasion given my lifestyle, eating habits, driving habits etc. So many more ominous threats exist, but some of you focus on having a gun to kill a "scumbag"
This Boston story resonates so strongly with you because the victims were wealthy white doctors, and the shooter was a black immigrant. When Dylan Roof killed all those people at church in South Carolina, did you all think of having guns inside your churches? I bet not.
Having a gun inside your home doesn't make sense. Is it any wonder that countries that outlaw personal guns have such low shooting rates??

well the hippocratic oath is kind of forced upon you in med school. who knows how many docs actually believe that stuff
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I'm not sure the Hippocratic Oath applies when an armed felon is cutting your fiancées throat open while you watch and suggesting that you're next, as I recall it applies to your patients.
I won't use my advanced medical knowledge to harm them though, I'll just put 2 in the chest and one in the head.


--
Il Destriero
 
  • Like
Reactions: 8 users
Hippocratic oath has nothing to do with how you treat a threat to your family in your home. You do no harm to your patients: People willingly coming to you for medical treatment. NOT someone breaking into your home with an intent to hurt your family.

Does a burglar want to hurt your family or you? Who knows? They certainly have the capability to be a threat and they have ZERO rights to be in my home. I'm not asking questions and I wouldn't think twice about an intruders life vs the lives of my wife and kids. Whether my defense be a gun or baseball bat, it doesn't matter. The baseball bat under my bed is put there with the same intent as a loaded shotgun, which is to eliminate any threat to my family by ANY means necessary.

These two doctors were killed ruthlessly. It's a tragedy. The judge who let this POS off easy should serve the same sentence as him. This should have never happened. He should have been in jail for decades for his very serious crime and then deported.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Whether my defense be a gun or baseball bat, it doesn't matter. The baseball bat under my bed is put there with the same intent as a loaded shotgun, which is to eliminate any threat to my family by ANY means necessary.

At least your kids can't accidentally shoot you, themselves, or their friends with your baseball bat.
how is a gun stored safely useful for home defence?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
At least your kids can't accidentally shoot you, themselves, or their friends with your baseball bat.
how is a gun stored safely useful for home defence?

There are plenty of coded safes designed for firearms that fit on your nightstand and can be opened in seconds.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Shotgun under the bed. Shells in my nightstand. Loaded in <10 seconds.

No sound more terrifying than the metallic click when loading a shell.

but people don't use them
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I'm surprised that so many physicians that took Hippocratic oaths to do no harm are so comfortable with having guns in their homes...other stuff...race baiting
So, a few things.
#1, Hippocrates never said primum non nocere. It also says you should teach the children of your teachers for free, and to not cut for the stone. So I guess you're already doing the other parts I mentioned.
Guns should be kept in safes. So no criminal is able to unbolt my big safe. The small one might come out with some work, but the average criminal isn't going to put that much time into it.
I'm not going to shoot them for stealing my TV. It's if they come into the area where my family lives.
Yes, had any of those people in SC had guns, they too would have been able to protect themselves from a criminal. Defense knows no colors.
I fail to see how the Colombian woman was white. Maybe you actually are colorblind, and it's not just a saying.
I'm happy for you to not have a gun if you don't see the utility. I'm not happy for you to remove that same courtesy from me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
less sexy than an H&K ... but you really want home defence right? -- not a new toy?





 
I'm surprised that so many physicians that took Hippocratic oaths to do no harm are so comfortable with having guns in their homes.
We like to talk about evidence based medicine. Is there evidence to show that having a gun in one's home makes one safer? Do we hear more stories of people who defend themselves from home intruders with their own firearms, then we do of crimes committed by stolen firearms? If a burglar can break into your home while youre asleep why can't he break in and steal your gun when you're gone?
I agree this story in Boston was tragic, but I'm more likely to die from a cause other than a home invasion given my lifestyle, eating habits, driving habits etc. So many more ominous threats exist, but some of you focus on having a gun to kill a "scumbag"
This Boston story resonates so strongly with you because the victims were wealthy white doctors, and the shooter was a black immigrant. When Dylan Roof killed all those people at church in South Carolina, did you all think of having guns inside your churches? I bet not.
Having a gun inside your home doesn't make sense. Is it any wonder that countries that outlaw personal guns have such low shooting rates??

What? Evidence for having a gun in your house? If someone is coming in with the intention to slit a throat, it's perfectly reasonable for the occupant to defend themselves.

And what's with the race baiting? The physicians are immigrants too. One from UK, one from Columbia. Either way, it's irrelevant.
 
I'm surprised that so many physicians that took Hippocratic oaths to do no harm are so comfortable with having guns in their homes.
We like to talk about evidence based medicine. Is there evidence to show that having a gun in one's home makes one safer? Do we hear more stories of people who defend themselves from home intruders with their own firearms, then we do of crimes committed by stolen firearms? If a burglar can break into your home while youre asleep why can't he break in and steal your gun when you're gone?
I agree this story in Boston was tragic, but I'm more likely to die from a cause other than a home invasion given my lifestyle, eating habits, driving habits etc. So many more ominous threats exist, but some of you focus on having a gun to kill a "scumbag"
This Boston story resonates so strongly with you because the victims were wealthy white doctors, and the shooter was a black immigrant. When Dylan Roof killed all those people at church in South Carolina, did you all think of having guns inside your churches? I bet not.
Having a gun inside your home doesn't make sense. Is it any wonder that countries that outlaw personal guns have such low shooting rates??

Your post is all over the place. So, I'll answer you point by point.

1. In the USA having a gun in your home or, for that matter, in your possession, is a constitutional right protected by the second amendment. So, whether you believe a gun in the home is more dangerous than not having one doesn't alter the U.S. Constitution. If I choose to defend myself with a firearm that is my right.

2. Stealing stuff- If a burglar breaks into my home while I'm away then all he gets is "stuff" like my TV, watches and the Ruger GP100. No human life is endangered and the need for lethal force is not required. I'm not advocating for lethal force to protect stuff but rather for those you love as well as yourself. A burglar's intention may extend well beyond the desire to just take your stuff; he may take your life. Since we have no way of knowing the intentions of a person committing a felony in your home lethal force is justifiable.

3. Tragedy- I agree that the risk of a home invasion with loss of life is a rare event and one I don't ever expect to happen to me; but, I have my right via the second amendment to own and carry a firearm. I choose to exercise that right. Also, the fact is that a firearm may have saved lives in this tragedy as the alleged murderer would have likely fled the scene. Perhaps, there would only have been a robbery that day instead of two murders.

4. Race- it's irrelevant to the facts. A home intruder robbed and murdered 2 people. Whether the thief was white, black or brown wouldn't have changed how most of us dealt with the situation.

5. Dylan Roof- This comparison is way off base. Mr. Roof is a disturbed individual with racist ideology. The discussion in this thread is about robbery and home defense.
Whether it's radical muslim terrorists, nutcase white supremacist racists or just mentally disturbed individuals a free society with a second amendment must deal with tragedies. These mass killings are hate based crimes and not based on money. In addition, I believe a society with a second amendment like the USA should not have "gun free zones" as that only encourages the criminals while limiting the law abiding citizens (which most gun owners are).

6. Concealed Carry/Gun ownership- It's a fundamental right in the USA just like Free Speech. Would we be willing to give up our freedoms to live in a safer society? Who gets to decide what freedoms are worth keeping and which ones get abolished? No thank you. Despite the tragedies of a free society it's the best system ever created on Earth.

Peace to you all and I recommend a firearm for personal protection.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I really like that Springfield for CC; it's a nice gun. For the wife, I also recommend the Ruger LCRs- at least look at them. They offer .38, 9mm and .22LR. Otherwise, get the S and W Bodyguard for the wife.

Ruger® LCR® * Double-Action Revolver Models
The LC9s is reliable EDC semi-auto. With 115 grain ammo, its recoil is very manageable for smaller framed folks. The only time I had a failure is when I intentionally limp-wristed it trying to get it to fail.

For fans of the .40, I recommend the Sig P320 subcompact for EDC. A very versatile pistol, you can change calibers and frames using the x-change kits if you want to go up in size.

For ease of use for wives who may be recoil averse, there is a revolver series called the LadySmith, by S&W. Model 642LS is a .38 SPL that can handle +P loads. For a small revolver, it has a nice ergonomic grip for smaller hands.
 
At least your kids can't accidentally shoot you, themselves, or their friends with your baseball bat.
how is a gun stored safely useful for home defence?

I do have a baseball bat under my side of the bed and I feel safe knowing that it doesn't really pose a threat to my kids if they should find it. But it's right there and immediately ready for me to use to defend myself and my family from any threat. My shotgun is in my closet, loaded and in a safe that only my wife and I will ever have access to. My kids will never have the combination to it. I could get to it in 30 seconds or less. Otherwise, I'm Barry Bonds peaking on 'roids.

I agree with Blade that if an intruder was downstairs stealing from me while my family was relatively safe upstairs, I wouldn't engage them. I'd be on the phone with 911 at the top of the stairs with my shotgun loaded and my finger on the trigger should an intruder make a move to come upstairs. I don't ever want to hurt anyone and I pray I never have to.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
What? Evidence for having a gun in your house? If someone is coming in with the intention to slit a throat, it's perfectly reasonable for the occupant to defend themselves.


This is the only evidence I know of. Yes, it isn't a great study and it's from 1993 and there are other studies that say the opposite conclusion (more guns have a a correlation to less crime), but I figured I'd throw it out there since evidence was mentioned without specifics.

Too bad there isn't a whole lot more evidence about this topic so we can have a data driven discussion, but we can partially thank Congress in 1997 for defunding the CDC's budget for gun research based on language in the budget (“none of the funds made available for injury prevention and control at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention may be used to advocate or promote gun control.”)

I'm mostly sorry for bringing in a bit more politics into this discussion. You are welcome . . .
 

Attachments

  • Gun Ownership as a Risk Factor for Homicide in the Home.pdf
    1.3 MB · Views: 49
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Does anyone have any suggestions about buying a taser/stun gun? Brands etc?
Thank you
Bill


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Does anyone have any suggestions about buying a taser/stun gun? Brands etc?
Thank you
Bill


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


TASER® M26C Police Stun Gun w/ Laser Black | TheHomeSecuritySuperstore.com

I can't convince you to buy a revolver instead? I own several Rugers and Smith & Wesson revolvers. They will never fail you. Never jam. Go bang every time even with 10 year old ammo in the chamber. Non gun people should look to a revolver for ease of use and reliability.

Ruger 1707 GP100 KGP-161 6RD 357MAG/38SP +P 6

Ruger 1705 GP-100 KGP-141 6RD 357MAG/38SP +P 4
 
If there was a study I bet it would show that if there is a car in your garage you are 10 times more likely the die in a car wreck.
 
TASER® M26C Police Stun Gun w/ Laser Black | TheHomeSecuritySuperstore.com

I can't convince you to buy a revolver instead? I own several Rugers and Smith & Wesson revolvers. They will never fail you. Never jam. Go bang every time even with 10 year old ammo in the chamber. Non gun people should look to a revolver for ease of use and reliability.

Ruger 1707 GP100 KGP-161 6RD 357MAG/38SP +P 6

Ruger 1705 GP-100 KGP-141 6RD 357MAG/38SP +P 4
No spring loaded clip to go bad if the gun sits loaded for years. Excellent choice for someone like me that is into rifles and rarely shoots a handgun. You can also be like Mat Dillon.
 
Top