Two years after leaving med school.

[mwsapphire]

Okay now I actually watched the videos.
I like that she realized med school wasn't for her, and that she took the LOA after her Grandmother died.
But she makes it seem like the medical school environment was the reason she was failing, but it was the fact that she was struggling.
I'm glad she had the courage to leave, but she really doesn't get what its like for people with huge loans. She's making it seem like med schools are "evil" , and maybe she feels like she failed just a bit and is looking for support, and that's totally fine, but I'm a little annoyed with the attitude she portrays in these videos.

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[OrthoTraumaMD]

You are a beast. I can respect that, hustlin' for that money.

Why, thank you.

 

[bannie22]

Let me introduce you to my friend coffee. If you drink enough of him your sleep requirements drop down to around 4 hours per night!

unhealthy decisions. thats why OP left. stupid recommendations from people supposedly in healthcare responsible for the health of hundreds of thousands of people over the course of their career

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

I'm really curious what a paycheck from an ortho attending looks like... [scratches head and contemplates life]


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

Great question. I am answering and moving it to my AMA because I don't want to hijack the thread!

 

[AnkleGuy]

I didn't fail out.

Sorry I made that assumption. I didn't exactly review your video because it's pretty lengthy. So why did you leave?

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Full disclosure, did not watch the videos through but as long as this loa business is actually true, there's no way this was a "choice." OP dropped out to avoid being kicked out

OP mentioned she failed neuroscience, marginally passed another class then after the LOA when she was "mentally well" she failed cardiology. Simply put, OP would have failed out of if she had stayed. It's definitely smarter to walk away than to be kicked out, but that's another dishonest point she's peddling.

 

[mwsapphire]

OP mentioned she failed neuroscience, marginally passed another class then after the LOA when she was "mentally well" she failed cardiology. Simply put, OP would have failed out of if she had stayed. It's definitely smarter to walk away than to be kicked out, but that's another dishonest point she's peddling.

Where she was headed, she would have failed if she didn't get help/change, but she was not kicked out. You need to do waaay more than that to get kicked out, it's actually one of the first few things I learned in the pre med process is that med school is not that mean, they actually really, really want you to succeed and recognize that's it's hard, and it actually take s a lot to fail out of medical school.
I just wanted to point that out, after watching the video it seems like it was....65 ish percent voluntary? If that makes sense....

 

[Nucleus Accumbens]

Where she was headed, she would have failed if she didn't get help/change, but she was not kicked out. You need to do waaay more than that to get kicked out, it's actually one of the first few things I learned in the pre med process is that med school is not that mean, they actually really, really want you to succeed and recognize that's it's hard, and it actually take s a lot to fail out of medical school.
I just wanted to point that out, after watching the video it seems like it was....65 ish percent voluntary? If that makes sense....

Lol this isn't true... many med schools will boot your a** out eventually if you're not passing all of your classes consistently. It isn't the same game it was before. You need to be on top of your game at all times.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Where she was headed, she would have failed if she didn't get help/change, but she was not kicked out. You need to do waaay more than that to get kicked out, it's actually one of the first few things I learned in the pre med process is that med school is not that mean, they actually really, really want you to succeed and recognize that's it's hard, and it actually take s a lot to fail out of medical school.
I just wanted to point that out, after watching the video it seems like it was....65 ish percent voluntary? If that makes sense....

Depends on the school. My school gives a lot of second chances, but there are schools that will basically boot you if you fail several classes or rotations. I'd agree with the 65% voluntary.

 

[ThirdMolarz]

I wander to the SDN med section sometimes for fun (from dental). Y'all are savage. Much respect

 

[W19]

I wander to the SDN med section sometimes for fun (from dental). Y'all are savage. Much respect

That is nothing bro... The smarter they are, the more brutal they are. You know what I mean . On to the OR... Oh gawd!

 

[grapefruit17]

My schoolyou fail too many classes you're out. You fail any two science courses and you're out. You fail a course one year, you go to the previous year to repeat. Fail a course during that year and you're out. But our classes weren't that bad to pass.

 

[grapefruit17]

OP mentioned she failed neuroscience, marginally passed another class then after the LOA when she was "mentally well" she failed cardiology. Simply put, OP would have failed out of if she had stayed. It's definitely smarter to walk away than to be kicked out, but that's another dishonest point she's peddling.

Well, boards probably may have been tough and that would have been some singnificant black marks when applying for residency

 

[mwsapphire]

Lol this isn't true... many med schools will boot your a** out eventually if you're not passing all of your classes consistently. It isn't the same game it was before. You need to be on top of your game at all times.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

Well , I guess so. But iirc she only failed one class and barely passed another one? I don't know what med school is actually like but I thought one class being failed and another barely passed was not enough to be kicked out? .She said at some point during the vids that her advisor was urging her to stay, which implies that she wasn't that close to being kicked out by the school. ( I watched the old video and the new one)

 

[grapefruit17]

Well , I guess so. But iirc she only failed one class and barely passed another one? I don't know what med school is actually like but I thought one class being failed and another barely passed was not enough to be kicked out? .She said at some point during the vids that her advisor was urging her to stay, which implies that she wasn't that close to being kicked out by the school. ( I watched the old video and the new one)

It depends on the type of curriculum, school policies, how major the class is.

Failing two major in classes in med school is def grounds for repeating a year or dismissal. Unfortunately, people do get kicked out of med school.

 

[grapefruit17]

It depends on the type of curriculum, school policies, how major the class is.

Failing two major in classes in med school is def grounds for repeating a year or dismissal. Unfortunately, people do get kicked out of med school.

Also I think advisors tend to urge everyone to keep trying. Losing a student is a big loss in tuition money. 160k loss over four years for one student.

 

[libertyyne]

OP mentioned she failed neuroscience, marginally passed another class then after the LOA when she was "mentally well" she failed cardiology. Simply put, OP would have failed out of if she had stayed. It's definitely smarter to walk away than to be kicked out, but that's another dishonest point she's peddling.

The dishonesty in that point taints her other message even if the other message is a good one.

Also I think advisors tend to urge everyone to keep trying. Losing a student is a big loss in tuition money. 160k loss over four years for one student.

Plus it reflects poorly on the school and is probably a lot of paperwork.

 

[mwsapphire]

The dishonesty in that point taints her other message even if the other message is a good one.

Plus it reflects poorly on the school and is probably a lot of paperwork.

That's more along the lines of what I was thinking. It looks bad for the school, ( and they lose money), if they boot out too many students.
But ofc, I haven't actually been to med school and each school is different. I just thought schools would try to have the lowest possible attrition rate.

 

[libertyyne]

That's more along the lines of what I was thinking. It looks bad for the school, ( and they lose money), if they boot out too many students.
But ofc, I haven't actually been to med school and each school is different. I just thought schools would try to have the lowest possible attrition rate.

They have policies in place. Looking at the student handbook makes these things pretty clear. OP was sitting on multiple LOAs and failures, she was probably close to dismissal.

 

[Goro]

Lol this isn't true... many med schools will boot your a** out eventually if you're not passing all of your classes consistently. It isn't the same game it was before. You need to be on top of your game at all times.

Both of you are correct; fail too much and you get dismissed. But most at most med schools, it's actually harder to get out than in, meaning we do everything in our power to try to get you to graduation.

 

[mwsapphire]

Am I the only one who thought it was weird when she said " My family was totally, totally happy when I left med school...they never said it to me while I was in there, but they were so happy that I left and were relieved to see me happy/well, etc..." That line made me feel weird. It's like, if they were really concerned they would have said something, not just been secretly relieved when she left. Like, if my parents were concerned about my mental health they would say " You have a problem now." not wait for it to blow up in my face and then be like " Yeah that was a good plan".
It was just really obviously trying to make herself feel better and it kind of made me cringe IDK. I know posting something like this here may make some users who are realizing med school isn't for them ( say, after just one semester) feel better, but at that point it just seemed like trying to make herself feel better.
Edit: Do med schools have learning centers, like UGrad schools? Yes or no?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Both of you are correct; fail too much and you get dismissed. But most at most med schools, it's actually harder to get out than in, meaning we do everything in our power to try to get you to graduation.

While true, even my fairly benign school did have limits. Fail a class/repeat a year for grades, you're on probation. Fail a course/not keep required GPA while on probation and you're out.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Am I the only one who thought it was weird when she said " My family was totally, totally happy when I left med school...they never said it to me while I was in there, but they were so happy that I left and were relieved to see me happy/well, etc..." That line made me feel weird. It's like, if they were really concerned they would have said something, not just been secretly relieved when she left. Like, if my parents were concerned about my mental health they would say " You have a problem now." not wait for it to blow up in my face and then be like " Yeah that was a good plan".
It was just really obviously trying to make herself feel better and it kind of made me cringe IDK. I know posting something like this here may make some users who are realizing med school isn't for them ( say, after just one semester) feel better, but at that point it just seemed like trying to make herself feel better.
Edit: Do med schools have learning centers, like UGrad schools? Yes or no?

Yes to the bolded, and medical students actually know they exist as well.

 

[trs88]

Well , I guess so. But iirc she only failed one class and barely passed another one? I don't know what med school is actually like but I thought one class being failed and another barely passed was not enough to be kicked out? .She said at some point during the vids that her advisor was urging her to stay, which implies that she wasn't that close to being kicked out by the school. ( I watched the old video and the new one)

Edit: Do med schools have learning centers, like UGrad schools? Yes or no? [/QUOTE]

It depends on the school. At my school, for students who wanted help, were near failing or failing a course was = getting a tutor who was a classmate that the school hired. Said classmate got no special advice from the professors to pass along to the students in need. We did have an individual with the school who would help you learn more about studying. When I met with him, I was told that I have a strong imagination and if I can learn to focus it, it will be good to study with. My reason for reaching out to the person was because I was having focusing problems while studying - to the point I would just stare at the wall instead of my computer screen. That person left after a year, and a new person arrived. A straight A student wasn't doing great in one class, so she went and spoke to this new person. The student described everything they were studying and how they were studying to the new person. "Oh, you're doing everything right so I don't know what to tell you".

 

[grapefruit17]

At my school a lot of classes were adjusted at the end to make sure no more then 5 percent failed each time. so while doing bad was more then possible, failing was tough.

The ones that struggled didn't put in enough time or had something personal going on, usually.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Edit: Do med schools have learning centers, like UGrad schools? Yes or no?

It depends on the school. At my school, for students who wanted help, were near failing or failing a course was = getting a tutor who was a classmate that the school hired. Said classmate got no special advice from the professors to pass along to the students in need. We did have an individual with the school who would help you learn more about studying. When I met with him, I was told that I have a strong imagination and if I can learn to focus it, it will be good to study with. My reason for reaching out to the person was because I was having focusing problems while studying - to the point I would just stare at the wall instead of my computer screen. That person left after a year, and a new person arrived. A straight A student wasn't doing great in one class, so she went and spoke to this new person. The student described everything they were studying and how they were studying to the new person. "Oh, you're doing everything right so I don't know what to tell you".[/QUOTE]

Its even worse at newer schools (ex. my school). We don't even have a structured tutoring system yet (this takes years to develop). However, we did have access to the professors which was profoundly helpful. The person you are referring to above is a learning specialist/counselor. We also had those at our school. Unfortunately, when you get someone new not used to teaching at this level, you will get bland advice. I had this situation multiple times with my learning specialists. However, there were times they surprised me with tips. They do start learning what works and what doesn't but by the time this happens you unfortunately become the guinea pig to facilitate their learning and you get barely any benefits. The benefits will go to the classes below you.

 

[IslandStyle808]

At my school a lot of classes were adjusted at the end to make sure no more then 5 percent failed each time. so while doing bad was more then possible, failing was tough.

The ones that struggled didn't put in enough time or had something personal going on, usually.

I can also confirm this as well. As a group, they will not make you remediate if you all are doing badly, they will adjust the grading. My school wouldn't want a knock on their door from COCA. However, they couldn't make it too easy where everyone passes (surprisingly there was one block where everyone passed, but I could tell they worked hard for it). This would also invite a knock on the door from COCA.

The one block I think my school dun right screwed up was neuro. It was the one block where they truly overloaded all the students (ex. 3o credit hours per week!). They didn't even proof read a few of questions properly either. I was on the cusp of failing for one test, but luckily I bounced back on the second. And no I studied equally as hard all day every day for both.

 

[mwsapphire]

I can also confirm this as well. As a group, they will not make you remediate if you all are doing badly, they will adjust the grading. My school wouldn't want a knock on their door from COCA. However, they couldn't make it too easy where everyone passes (surprisingly there was one block where everyone passed, but I could tell they worked hard for it). This would also invite a knock on the door from COCA.

The one block I think my school dun right screwed up was neuro. It was the one block where they truly overloaded all the students (ex. 3o credit hours per week!). They didn't even proof read a few of questions properly either. I was on the cusp of failing for one test, but luckily I bounced back on the second. And no I studied equally as hard all day every day for both.

Uuhhh...what? Did I read that wrong or is a small portion of the class supposed to fail?
( I know this is really premature for me But I'm so curious)

 

[grapefruit17]

At my school they overrecruit knowning that some will be lost either through fail or leaving on their own. We had a high attrition rate at my do school

 

[username456789]

At my school they overrecruit knowning that some will be lost either through fail or leaving on their own. We had a high attrition rate at my do school

I didn't know th Caribbean had DO schools.

 

[W19]

At my school they overrecruit knowning that some will be lost either through fail or leaving on their own. We had a high attrition rate at my do school

How can they over recruit? I am pretty sure that every DO school has limited # of students they can recruit based on what is allowed by COCA...

 

[Light at end of tunnel]

I wander to the SDN med section sometimes for fun (from dental). Y'all are savage. Much respect

We got wisdom teeth for days.

 

[Affiche]

I finally got around to watching both videos and I'm totally baffled by the negative responses I've seen here. Honestly, she sounds like someone who really, really struggled with depression and anxiety in medical school and although she really wanted to be a doctor, the reality of the culture of medicine was too misaligned with her expectations to make it worth continuing this career. I took her comments to mean she absolutely still could see herself being a doctor, but not in the culture that currently prevails, which is fine. Given the level of depression and anxiety that she described, it's not really surprising to see her so enthusiastic and open about that total change in mood she's experiencing now that she's out, and I don't fault her one bit for wanting to share her experience in attempt to reach someone going through a similar phase now. I mean, it sounds like a total 180 change in happiness level for her, and I'm glad she made the right decision, although I can imagine it was an incredibly difficult and emotional one.

I'd also like to point out that a number of my classmates have expressed the sentiment of feeling disconnected from themselves due to the overwhelming number of hours they put into school, which comes at the expense of no longer pursing other interests, which really make us who we are to begin with. I felt this way too for a while during my first semester, and really had to make some serious changes to my routine to keep myself sane. I think the culture of medicine can be really toxic, depression/anxiety runs rampant, and I wish it wasn't such a taboo or offensive thing to discuss with each other.

 

[mwsapphire]

I finally got around to watching both videos and I'm totally baffled by the negative responses I've seen here. Honestly, she sounds like someone who really, really struggled with depression and anxiety in medical school and although she really wanted to be a doctor, the reality of the culture of medicine was too misaligned with her expectations to make it worth continuing this career. I took her comments to mean she absolutely still could see herself being a doctor, but not in the culture that currently prevails, which is fine. Given the level of depression and anxiety that she described, it's not really surprising to see her so enthusiastic and open about that total change in mood she's experiencing now that she's out, and I don't fault her one bit for wanting to share her experience in attempt to reach someone going through a similar phase now. I mean, it sounds like a total 180 change in happiness level for her, and I'm glad she made the right decision, although I can imagine it was an incredibly difficult and emotional one.

I'd also like to point out that a number of my classmates have expressed the sentiment of feeling disconnected from themselves due to the overwhelming number of hours they put into school, which comes at the expense of no longer pursing other interests, which really make us who we are to begin with. I felt this way too for a while during my first semester, and really had to make some serious changes to my routine to keep myself sane. I think the culture of medicine can be really toxic, depression/anxiety runs rampant, and I wish it wasn't such a taboo or offensive thing to discuss with each other.

Amen sister. I'm actually, as an UGrad student, wondering if I have the emotional chops to handle med school, and I hate that people are being so mean to someone who left.

 

[grapefruit17]

How can they over recruit? I am pretty that every DO school has limited # of students they can recruit based on what is allowed by COCA...

All do schools and Caribbean schools like money. The quality is variable, but all want money.

Do schools can raise class sizes each year without adding more facilulty or facilities. And it's known at my school that they factor in a certain percent of the people which will likely not do all four years.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Uuhhh...what? Did I read that wrong or is a small portion of the class supposed to fail?
( I know this is really premature for me But I'm so curious)

Yeah, the faculty do expect this to happen. However, it is more so for the outliers. So for instance if there was a group of people who scored in the range of 60-75% all those people will be bumped up beyond 70% (passing score). However, if there is a small portion of people who had a 50% these people would only be bumped to a 60%. You also have to remember that schools will have assignments that will buffer the grades and so those people can also get a boost beyond 70%. Its not that they want them to fail, but they want to keep a rigor that shows if you don't keep up you can fail.

Then again this is at a newer schools, so a lot of grading is dependent on curves (since not enough classes have come through that the questions are vetted enough for fairness). This is why you don't know whether these failure are due to the students ability or due to the curriculum. Always go to an older school and one that hasn't recently change their curriculum.

 

[W19]

Amen sister. I'm actually, as an UGrad student, wondering if I have the emotional chops to handle med school, and I hate that people are being so mean to someone who left.

Well, medicine tend to unmask psychological issues that weren't previously apparent... This career is not made for the [whatever you want insert here].

 

[sliceofbread136]

Amen sister. I'm actually, as an UGrad student, wondering if I have the emotional chops to handle med school, and I hate that people are being so mean to someone who left.

This is the internet, where negativity somehow serves to provide some sort self validation. Bonus points if it is in the form of a clever comment that scores a few likes.

People are nicer IRL. Unless they are a surgeon of course!

 

[HopefulEMed]

Also, can someone post the link to the video? it's broken

 

[Anicetus]

May favorite post from OP from all of this is that she would've killed herself if her parents weren't paying for her med school to begin with. I guess for people that take out full loans like myself should just commit suicide if we ever get into OP's position.... (And for the record that was sarcasm. Don't SIGECAPS me please).

 

[grapefruit17]

some people were prob a little too mean, and I would never wish anything bad on anyone.

However, there's a lot of disconnect in the ops message and when you post a video on a site like this you open yourself to criticism. The big things being that op quit with no loans..the vast majority of us couldn't do that..I graduated with over 300k debt quitting wasn't an option for me. So if a lot people were having a horrible time, they could not quit. Some people in my class failed out with 200k debt.i genuinely feel for these people and I don't think ops message can relate to that.

 

[grapefruit17]

May favorite post from OP from all of this is that she would've killed herself if her parents weren't paying for her med school to begin with. I guess for people that take out full loans like myself should just commit suicide if we ever get into OP's position.... (And for the record that was sarcasm. Don't SIGECAPS me please).

Yea that's the part that does it for me too..the op was very fortunate to have a free pass out. Most are not so fortunate

 

[Affiche]

some people were prob a little too mean, and I would never wish anything bad on anyone.

However, there's a lot of disconnect in the ops message and when you post a video on a site like this you open yourself to criticism. The big things being that op quit with no loans..the vast majority of us couldn't do that..I graduated with over 300k debt quitting wasn't an option for me. So if a lot people were having a horrible time, they could not quit. Some people in my class failed out with 200k debt.i genuinely feel for these people and I don't think ops message can relate to that.

Respectfully, I disagree. I don't think she posted on this site to open herself up for being criticized, but to reach any student who is on here looking for others who had similar feelings. At least for me personally, I come to SDN to see how other medical students handled or are handling the things I'm dealing with in med school, so this would be the place to reach those students. I think it's great that she came back to post two years later because if I were contemplating dropping out, I'd want to see what life after the fallout looks like.

Regarding the loan situation everyone seems fixated on, I don't think her financial situation discredits her in any way. Everyone's financial situation is different and each person needs to evaluate his/her cost:benefit ratio individually. Yeah, she was hella lucky that she didn't have the financial burden that most students have, but she also had the weight of burning her parents' money on two years of school to deal with. Who knows what her financial stress looked like and who cares?

Bottom line: the stress of medical school was unbearable for OP, she decided it wasn't worth it, she dropped out, and now she is happy. To those who are contemplating a different career path: happiness/success/life will not end because you opted out.

 

[grapefruit17]

Respectfully, I disagree. I don't think she posted on this site to open herself up for being criticized, but to reach any student who is on here looking for others who had similar feelings. At least for me personally, I come to SDN to see how other medical students handled or are handling the things I'm dealing with in med school, so this would be the place to reach those students. I think it's great that she came back to post two years later because if I were contemplating dropping out, I'd want to see what life after the fallout looks like.

Regarding the loan situation everyone seems fixated on, I don't think her financial situation discredits her in any way. Everyone's financial situation is different and each person needs to evaluate his/her cost:benefit ratio individually. Yeah, she was hella lucky that she didn't have the financial burden that most students have, but she also had the weight of burning her parents' money on two years of school to deal with. Who knows what her financial stress looked like and who cares?

Bottom line: the stress of medical school was unbearable for OP, she decided it wasn't worth it, she dropped out, and now she is happy. To those who are contemplating a different career path: happiness/success/life will not end because you opted out.

Whenever you post anything on a site like this you open yourself to criticism because people will always have different opinions. That's just how it goes.

For the 300k in debt people who drop out, you don't think their life is drastically different then the op?

 

[Stagg737]

How can they over recruit? I am pretty sure that every DO school has limited # of students they can recruit based on what is allowed by COCA...

Medical schools are given a "max" number of slots, but they are allowed to accept as many students above that maximum assuming that some of them hold multiple acceptances and will attend another institution or will decide not to attend for other reasons. It happened a few years ago at Texas A&M, here's the article: A&M medical school faces dilemma of too many acceptances - The Daily Texan

 

[mwsapphire]

Medical schools are given a "max" number of slots, but they are allowed to accept as many students above that maximum assuming that some of them hold multiple acceptances and will attend another institution or will decide not to attend for other reasons. It happened a few years ago at Texas A&M, here's the article: A&M medical school faces dilemma of too many acceptances - The Daily Texan

Is the acceptance rate for medical schools ( like, total, nationally) sooo low b/c of the limited number of seats vs applicants? Or is b/c a lot of people aren't seen as fit? I always wondered that.

 

[grapefruit17]

Is the acceptance rate for medical schools ( like, total, nationally) sooo low b/c of the limited number of seats vs applicants? Or is b/c a lot of people aren't seen as fit? I always wondered that.

Limited number of seats for the sheer number of applicants. Even with expansion of medical schools applicant numbers rise.

 

[mwsapphire]

Limited number of seats for the sheer number of applicants. Even with expansion of medical schools applicant numbers rise.

That's so stressful/nuts. No wonder the mean GPA's are so high (3.7 overall/3.6 BCPM), when Goro has stated you wouldn't need that high of a GPA to survive med school.

 

[grapefruit17]

That's so stressful/nuts. No wonder the mean GPA's are so high (3.7 overall/3.6 BCPM), when Goro has stated you wouldn't need that high of a GPA to survive med school.

I honestly think a large number of people in the general population could survive medical school. Some of it may be natural intelligence but hard work can get you pretty far.

Do schools are still a great alternative to md though, if your stats aren't competive enough.

 

[mwsapphire]

I honestly think a large number of people in the general population could survive medical school. Some of it may be natural intelligence but hard work can get you pretty far.

Do schools are still a great alternative to md though, if your stats aren't competive enough.

So I guess when you add in DO schools ( there are fewer of them, but I think larger class sizes), the numbers of people who get to be Doctors aren't so dismal. No wonder we're so nuerotic about our grades.