unhappy nurses?

[guetzow]

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Teamwork is always appreciated. I was refering to the egos of certain RN's. Anyone can bash and fingerpoint in a clinical situation....especially after the doc's left (Seen a lot of RNs do that...). Teamwork is defenitely the way to go.

 

[bell412]

i've seen many many posts on the SDN forum that were pretty close to this monster. Someday it will change. Slowly but surely it will change. I may never see it my life time but I'll die trying to make that change.

 

[guetzow]

If you're not happy with your profession, go back to school 🙂
"The best revenge in life is living well" -Jerry Seinfeld

 

[bell412]

hey geutzow
one time I was sitting in the back seat when I was taking care of a CABG straight from the OR. I called the bus driver surgeon and told him that I was having 20cc/hr chest tube output, CI 1.6, SVR 1800, pcwp 8, cvp 20, BP 80/40 with a pulselus paradoxsis, HR 90, 100% AV paced with a 1:1 IABP with poor augmentation. fibrinogen 80, Hct 28%. Medication infusions
were phenylephrine, dobutrex, dopamine and milrinone. I asked him what he wanted to do and he said I don't know your the one who is there what do you think?

 

[zenman]

We had a CABG pt. that came back with respiratory distress. CXR revealed lung CA with mets. Seems no one did a pre-op CXR!!!!!!!!!!! Everyone on the team failed on that one.

 

[guetzow]

My point exactly. Everybody can miss something, and teamwork is always appreciated. It's the 25% or so of RN's with Oppositional Defiant Disorder/bipolar/compulsives/and Borderlines that give everybody else a bad name. "Other RNs tell me this", too.

-Denial ain't just a place in Egypt.

 

[BSN]

Hello folks,

I have no intention of being a nurse, I am actually applying to medical school, but I have noticed that alot of nurses I talk to seem to be unhappy with their career choice. Maybe I am making a generalization, but I am curious is there alot of dissatisfaction among nurses in the field compared to other profession

Some nurses are not happy because they are not respected, underpaid and overworked. The image of nursing is also very screwed up. Some people just don’t understand that nursing has many degrees, from a diploma to work as a LPN all the way to a PhD in nursing. In part I blam the Nursing Profession also. Nurses don’t seem to respect education. This big debate about BSN vs. AD nurses. I have a four year bachelor’s degree in nursing science from a respected four year university. Me and a person with ½ the education which is an associate degree in nursing have a same job description as an RN. The associate degree nurses argue that they are the same if not better; this shows they don’t respect education.
Well, I am not one of those nurses. I love nursing. It gives me a chance to care for someone and get paid for it. Bed side nursing is hard; the nurse to patient ratio is too high. I love my job and my profession. Remember we have a nursing shortage so instead of just complaining and bringing over foreign nurses why don’t they fix the working conditions. We need more Aids to help us do things that can be done by a non licensed person. I will go on to get my masters one day but want to start a family. Nursing School is not easy, esp. getting your masters takes 6 year with a least 2 years of experience, which makes a min of 8 years. I look forward to being an NP one day. I don’t want to replace doctors because if I wanted to be a doctor I would have become one. I want to be an NP because this will allow me to help patients but still have a wonderful family life. I look forward to working with a doctor and help them in their practice.

 

[BSN]

Two nights ago, I was summoned to the ER to see an elderly patient who had been told by his NP to come to the ER and be admitted so he could have an abdominal CT. The NP was working him up for anemia.
Why would you send a patient to ER to get an abdominal CT when you can do it as an outpatient? Poor guy had to sit in the ER for hours.

Needless to say my attending got on the phone, got a hold of the NP and tore her a new one.

Many studies have shown NPs are good health care providers. You have to remember people will be people. I have seen many many bad doctors too. Nurses have millions of stories about how they had to bring up the mistake of a doctor. I look forward to being an NP one day. I don't want to replace doctors, if I did I would have become one. I want to have a family life and a career and look forward to helping a doctor in thier practice.

 

[Hayduke]

Many studies have shown NPs are good health care providers. You have to remember people will be people. I have seen many many bad doctors too. Nurses have millions of stories about how they had to bring up the mistake of a doctor. I look forward to being an NP one day. I don't want to replace doctors, if I did I would have become one. I want to have a family life and a career and look forward to helping a doctor in thier practice.

Not meant to be a hijack, but w/ your reason "to helping a doctor in their practice."...why not go PA?

 

[BSN]

Not meant to be a hijack, but w/ your reason "to helping a doctor in their practice."...why not go PA?

Nursing is a very vast profession. Nurses run hospitals as nurse managers and supervisors. Nurses care clinical nurse specialist, give anesthesia, ect. A nurse can get a PhD and do nursing research so what I mean to say is the possibilities are endless. Right now I feel like I want to be a NP maybe I will change my mind. I was going to do the PA thing first until I went to the clinic and my health care provider was an NP who I just feel in love with. For this reason I switched my mind. Being an NP you can also keep your RN license which gives you something to fall back on just incase, because there are always RN jobs. Most jobs say PA/NP needed so it really doesn’t make a difference in that sense.

 

[oneRNprn]

Nursing is a very vast profession. Nurses run hospitals as nurse managers and supervisors. Nurses care clinical nurse specialist, give anesthesia, ect. A nurse can get a PhD and do nursing research so what I mean to say is the possibilities are endless. Right now I feel like I want to be a NP maybe I will change my mind. I was going to do the PA thing first until I went to the clinic and my health care provider was an NP who I just feel in love with. For this reason I switched my mind. Being an NP you can also keep your RN license which gives you something to fall back on just incase, because there are always RN jobs. Most jobs say PA/NP needed so it really doesn’t make a difference in that sense.

Additionally, NPs have more autonomy regarding prescriptive authority than PAs. NPs are autonomous, whereas PAs work under the guidance of a physician, hence the name "assistant." NPs are not required to have co-signed prescriptions, and can run a clinic without a physician. NP schooling is a logical progression for an RN, because NPs work from the nursing model of care, and PAs work from the medical model. Additionally, PA school requires different reqs than NP school. It's more involved than just choosing "PA" or "NP" school. NPs value the autonomy that an NP license provides that the PA license does not.

 

[BSN]

Additionally, NPs have more autonomy regarding prescriptive authority than PAs. NPs are autonomous, whereas PAs work under the guidance of a physician, hence the name "assistant." NPs are not required to have co-signed prescriptions, and can run a clinic without a physician. NP schooling is a logical progression for an RN, because NPs work from the nursing model of care, and PAs work from the medical model. Additionally, PA school requires different reqs than NP school. It's more involved than just choosing "PA" or "NP" school. NPs value the autonomy that an NP license provides that the PA license does not.

Thank you for the wonderful informatoin, I know a lot about NPs, have done my research but did not know all this about PAs thus could not compare to much.

 

[guetzow]

I concur.

 

[mx_599]

Nurses run hospitals as nurse managers and supervisors.

This scares me...

 

[sunnyjohn]

Okay we get it.

You've met some really bad nurses. You've had a few unfortunate run-ins. You feel nurses are overpaid. You've been disrespected by nurses because you were a medical assistant. Given the job task (cardiac monitoring) you felt you were better equipped and a better use of hospital funds.

LET IT GO MAN!

Can't you admit there is room for everyone at the buffet table we call patient care?



This thread is like bad wreck. I know I shouldn't look, but I can't help it . As I write this, I am flogging myself for responding.
😛

 

[mx_599]

Okay we get it.

You've met some really bad nurses. You've had a few unfortunate run-ins. You feel nurses are overpaid. You've been disrespected by nurses because you were a medical assistant. Given the job task (cardiac monitoring) you felt you were better equipped and a better use of hospital funds.

LET IT GO MAN!

Can't you admit there is room for everyone at the buffet table we call patient care?



This thread is like bad wreck. I know I shouldn't look, but I can't help it . As I write this, I am flogging myself for responding.
😛

It is like a bad wreck. I need to unsubscribe to the thread. Everytime someone posts, I get a notice and then I am tempted to look! 😀

 

[hospitalistpac]

Additionally, NPs have more autonomy regarding prescriptive authority than PAs. NPs are autonomous, whereas PAs work under the guidance of a physician, hence the name "assistant." NPs are not required to have co-signed prescriptions, and can run a clinic without a physician. NP schooling is a logical progression for an RN, because NPs work from the nursing model of care, and PAs work from the medical model. Additionally, PA school requires different reqs than NP school. It's more involved than just choosing "PA" or "NP" school. NPs value the autonomy that an NP license provides that the PA license does not.

Just a note, PAs are NOT required to have co-signed Rxs in 48 of the 50 states. Did you know that? Also there are still states with restrictions on RXs for NPs too. And while NPs may value autonomy, only 1% practice independently without oversight. Not trying to start anything, just thought some infor needed clarification. I agree its a personal choice to become an NP or PA.

 

[BSN]

Just a note, PAs are NOT required to have co-signed Rxs in 48 of the 50 states. Did you know that? Also there are still states with restrictions on RXs for NPs too. And while NPs may value autonomy, only 1% practice independently without oversight. Not trying to start anything, just thought some infor needed clarification. I agree its a personal choice to become an NP or PA.

We NP and PA need to stick together, we can help eachother because we are so much alike.

 

[zenman]

We NP and PA need to stick together, we can help eachother because we are so much alike.

Where was that site for both PAs and NPs that someone mentioned one time?

 

[Carolina Girl]

Where was that site for both PAs and NPs that someone mentioned one time?

www.clinicianforum.com


BTW, PAs can (and DO) own their own practices in some states. In these situations they contract with a doctor to provide supervision, but the business belongs to the PA. There are also numerous situations where PAs run clinics that do not have doctors on site.

Cohesiveness between the professions is great, but we should understand the differences between the two. The Clinician's Forum is a great site for PAs and NPs to learn about each other - at least it was prior to being hacked. It's been anemic since getting back oline, but is growing again.

 

[Mike MacKinnon]

Well i read through this whole thread and simply have to laugh knowing that 99% of the ppl repling are NOT RN's.

So let me give you the perspective of someone who is.

I am a Flight Nurse, advanced practice I teach every class that exists. I have worked ER, Trauma Teams, Trauma ICU, CVICU etc. Here is the truth.

The average RN is making 45-50 K a year. A plumber makes more than than with less than a year of trade school. Where I trained, in Canada, we have switched almost entirely to a 4 year Science Degree. So, no more 2 year programs.

Why are nurses unhappy? There are alot of reasons.

1) Some simply like to complain.

2) Pay for work/knowledge isnt addressed in Nursing (see comments below this list)

3) There is little control over your environment and as things get worse inhospital you are expected to roll with the punches.

Now to explain pay issues. I dont think any typical floor nurse is worth more than 50 K a year. However, regardless of where you work, what your certifications are, weather you have a degree or not, your ALL PAID THE SAME. So if you work critical care ie: Trauma, ICU, ER, you dont make any more than the pill pusher at the nursing home yet the expectations placed on you and the level of knowledge is far superior. That is why nurses are upset about pay.

As far as Nursing boards holding back EMS? Yes that is true it happens to some degree. However, EMS also holds itself back. What other profession works as a volunteer for FREE? I was a paramedic and i would have NEVER worked for free. Everytime you do this you devalue your profession suggesting to the "people who set the wages" that you would do it for nothing so why pay more?

Secondly, as fire depts over take EMS and you see less professional paramedics and more "fire Medics" you get a watered down medic. My dealing in the USA with fire medics as opposed to professional paramedics in places like NYC is totally different. You can do ONE thing @ 100% but you cant be a fireman and a medic at 100% each. Eventually one loses to the other.

Lastly, EMS is a kick back job in most places across the country. When i was a paramedic we didnt call it Earn Money Sleeping for nothing. As opposed to the RN who runs their ass of in the ER non stop for 12 hours, some trucks may do 5 calls a 24 hour shift. Sure you might do a stand up 24 here and there, but that isnt the norm. I have been on both sides of the fence so i know. Oh that and you only take care of 1 patient at a time as opposed to the ER with 4-5 per RN. All who have been in EMS or who are, know the 1% rule. 99% BS calls 1% good calls. Depending on your area, this may be different but we are talking generalizations and averages.

So why are nurses upset? Really its about recognition. Many are frustrated because they work hard get advanced certifications and do the best for their patients and yet recieve no compensation for the extra work let alone a "thanks" from the hospital. In the helicopter i place chest tubes, central lines, intubate carry about 40 drugs do research as well as publish. Interestingly, i make less than i do when i work the ER. Again, its about recognition.

For those here that know i am going to med school in the future, i am not leaving nursing because its a bad profession. Nor am i unhappy with nursing. It is alot of fun. I am leaving nursing for DO for the same reason i left paramedicine for RN... I am an A Type personality with an uncanny need to "Know What I dont Know". I love challenges and education. From my vantage point, the next logical step is physician.


Good luck to everyone and i hope this post helps explain some of the issues.

Hello folks,

I have no intention of being a nurse, I am actually applying to medical school, but I have noticed that alot of nurses I talk to seem to be unhappy with their career choice. Maybe I am making a generalization, but I am curious is there alot of dissatisfaction among nurses in the field compared to other professions?

T.

 

[mx_599]

Well i read through this whole thread and simply have to laugh knowing that 99% of the ppl repling are NOT RN's.

So let me give you the perspective of someone who is.

I am a Flight Nurse, advanced practice I teach every class that exists. I have worked ER, Trauma Teams, Trauma ICU, CVICU etc. Here is the truth.

The average RN is making 45-50 K a year. A plumber makes more than than with less than a year of trade school. Where I trained, in Canada, we have switched almost entirely to a 4 year Science Degree. So, no more 2 year programs.

Why are nurses unhappy? There are alot of reasons.

1) Some simply like to complain.

2) Pay for work/knowledge isnt addressed in Nursing (see comments below this list)

3) There is little control over your environment and as things get worse inhospital you are expected to roll with the punches.

Now to explain pay issues. I dont think any typical floor nurse is worth more than 50 K a year. However, regardless of where you work, what your certifications are, weather you have a degree or not, your ALL PAID THE SAME. So if you work critical care ie: Trauma, ICU, ER, you dont make any more than the pill pusher at the nursing home yet the expectations placed on you and the level of knowledge is far superior. That is why nurses are upset about pay.

As far as Nursing boards holding back EMS? Yes that is true it happens to some degree. However, EMS also holds itself back. What other profession works as a volunteer for FREE? I was a paramedic and i would have NEVER worked for free. Everytime you do this you devalue your profession suggesting to the "people who set the wages" that you would do it for nothing so why pay more?

Secondly, as fire depts over take EMS and you see less professional paramedics and more "fire Medics" you get a watered down medic. My dealing in the USA with fire medics as opposed to professional paramedics in places like NYC is totally different. You can do ONE thing @ 100% but you cant be a fireman and a medic at 100% each. Eventually one loses to the other.

Lastly, EMS is a kick back job in most places across the country. When i was a paramedic we didnt call it Earn Money Sleeping for nothing. As opposed to the RN who runs their ass of in the ER non stop for 12 hours, some trucks may do 5 calls a 24 hour shift. Sure you might do a stand up 24 here and there, but that isnt the norm. I have been on both sides of the fence so i know. Oh that and you only take care of 1 patient at a time as opposed to the ER with 4-5 per RN. All who have been in EMS or who are, know the 1% rule. 99% BS calls 1% good calls. Depending on your area, this may be different but we are talking generalizations and averages.

So why are nurses upset? Really its about recognition. Many are frustrated because they work hard get advanced certifications and do the best for their patients and yet recieve no compensation for the extra work let alone a "thanks" from the hospital. In the helicopter i place chest tubes, central lines, intubate carry about 40 drugs do research as well as publish. Interestingly, i make less than i do when i work the ER. Again, its about recognition.

For those here that know i am going to med school in the future, i am not leaving nursing because its a bad profession. Nor am i unhappy with nursing. It is alot of fun. I am leaving nursing for DO for the same reason i left paramedicine for RN... I am an A Type personality with an uncanny need to "Know What I dont Know". I love challenges and education. From my vantage point, the next logical step is physician.


Good luck to everyone and i hope this post helps explain some of the issues.

Finally, a sensible post from someone in the field. Nice post and outlook. 🙂 👍

 

[BSN]

This scares me...

Lack of respect is one of the main reasons nurses feel burned out and students don’t select nursing as a profession. I don’t know why people like to put us down. A nurse supervisor is very qualified to run her units. They have lot of experience and at least a masters degree. I respect other professions and I wish others would or at least act to respect mine. I have worked very hard to get where I am as I’m sure most other professions in which there are higher degrees do. I love nursing and I often rethink my decisions just for this reason alone, lack of respect.
WE need good nurses and need good students to choose nursing as thier profession , remember there is a nursing shortage and these types of comments don't help 🙁

 

[mx_599]

Lack of respect is one of the main reasons nurses feel burned out and students don’t select nursing as a profession. I don’t know why people like to put us down. A nurse supervisor is very qualified to run her units. They have lot of experience and at least a masters degree. I respect other professions and I wish others would or at least act to respect mine. I have worked very hard to get where I am as I’m sure most other professions in which there are higher degrees do. I love nursing and I often rethink my decisions just for this reason alone, lack of respect.
WE need good nurses and need good students to choose nursing as thier profession , remember there is a nursing shortage and these types of comments don't help 🙁

Let me clarify...I never said anywhere that I didn't respect nurses. I said this scares me above because it becomes sort of a monopoly situation. That is not really the exact word I am looking for, but nurses will "band" together. From upper management to LPN's. Sometimes this banding together is for improper reasons.

I have run into quite a few nurse supervisors who lack a masters degree. In fact, I cannot think of any that do have one. So I think your statement is wrong. Maybe in your state they have masters...but not in mine!

 

[fab4fan]

Oh, and physicians never band together to protect their own interests.

In some places managers don't have an MSN...so what? The nurses who are on that unit day in, day out, are the ones who are most qualified to run it. They know what the specific needs are of the department and how best to meet those needs.

You've got to get over this paranoia of nurses secretly plotting to bring you (and other doctors) down. We've got far more important issues to address, like how to find and maintain qualified nurses to provide patient care.

Yes, we do look out for each other, mainly because no one else will. Physicians aren't going to advocate for nurses. Hospital management most definitely will not. So we have to be our own advocates.

 

[Katee80]

Oh, and physicians never band together to protect their own interests.

In some places managers don't have an MSN...so what? The nurses who are on that unit day in, day out, are the ones who are most qualified to run it. They know what the specific needs are of the department and how best to meet those needs.

You've got to get over this paranoia of nurses secretly plotting to bring you (and other doctors) down. We've got far more important issues to address, like how to find and maintain qualified nurses to provide patient care.

Yes, we do look out for each other, mainly because no one else will. Physicians aren't going to advocate for nurses. Hospital management most definitely will not. So we have to be our own advocates.

Well said fab4fan!

 

[mx_599]

Oh, and physicians never band together to protect their own interests.

This is different, I shouldn't need to explain why.

In some places managers don't have an MSN...so what?

If you read more than just my post, you would have noticed I was merely making a point on something that was stated by "BSN" I believe. I could care less if the managers have an associates degree.

You've got to get over this paranoia of nurses secretly plotting to bring you (and other doctors) down. We've got far more important issues to address

On an average night shift on the floor, gossip runs rampant among you nurses!

Yes, we do look out for each other, mainly because no one else will.

This is perfectly fine and I think that you should look out for each other. Its when it gets abused that problems occur.

Physicians aren't going to advocate for nurses.

I wouldn't know, I am not a physician.

Hospital management most definitely will not.

You are the hospital management!

So we have to be our own advocates.

👍 agreed to an extent.

 

[bell412]

mx_599
you are a clueless individual. I'm sure your going to be a clever little physician. When do you START your doctor training?

 

[mx_599]

mx_599
you are a clueless individual. I'm sure your going to be a clever little physician. When do you START your doctor training?

Soon! I am really excited 🙂

 

[guetzow]

No one can 'make' you happy.

 

[MedicRN]

Oh, and physicians never band together to protect their own interests.

This is different, I shouldn't need to explain why.

Oh, but please do explain or will your secret handshake become public? 😱 I've never seen disciplined MDs get their names up in lights on their state medical society's website. The only way the public finds out is if they did something stupid enough and sensational enough to get their butts sued for mega-trillions AND if the media picks it up. Yet, in most states, state nursing boards publish the RN/LPN names, offenses AND disciplinary action taken on their sites. And there's not a whole lot we can do about it (and it's not for lack of trying).

You've got to get over this paranoia of nurses secretly plotting to bring you (and other doctors) down. We've got far more important issues to address.

On an average night shift on the floor, gossip runs rampant among you nurses!

Yeah, sure, we have nothing better to do than sit around and gossip when there are patients to be turned, meds to be given, and endless bureaucratic paperwork to be completed! Have you been a fly on the wall during the average floor night shift to KNOW what they talk about?? You are really into yourself if you think all we talk about (if at all) are ways to get back at ignorant, arrogant, wanna-be's!

I wouldn't know, I am not a physician.

Thank God for small favors!

 

[a_ditchdoc]

First off, I gotta say, there seems to be quite a few malignant posts on this thread. Debate is good sometimes, but I have noticed a lot of the people in this forum would rather attack and belittle people than post something well thought out or meaningful. Most of us are grown, we should act like it...

In regard to the post above, I just wanted to point out that physicians also have their disclipinary actions posted on the web in many states by the board of medical examiners...

 

[Orchard]

mx_599
you are a clueless individual. I'm sure your going to be a clever little physician. When do you START your doctor training?

Hey nursie!! Do me a favor, will ya'? Go fetch Mr. X's chart, get me some coffee (cream, sugar), and realize your place in the hierarchy of medicine, ok? To simplify: Doctors >> Nurses.

😍

 

[BSN]

Hey nursie!! Do me a favor, will ya'? Go fetch Mr. X's chart, get me some coffee (cream, sugar), and realize your place in the hierarchy of medicine, ok? To simplify: Doctors >> Nurses.

😍

I've seen your posts and it is clear you like to start a debate and will say anything to start a debate. Go to the unit and ask for coffe and a chart from an RN and see what you get,nothing. Have you everbeen on a unit???
you need to give respect to earn it.
Well, i don't need to say much but that all your post are the same, which shows you are just looking to debate. I love the doctors I work with. They care about their patients as do I. We work together to provide patient care and respect eachother for it. They need me just as much as i need them. In the end it's all about the the patient.

 

[guetzow]

Therein lies the problem. It is this Obstinance that marginalizes nurses. Some RN's are worse than others, creating the stereotype for all, and hence the hostility. It is a sad fact that the perception of nurses is that the helpful ones are woefully in the minority. Respect should be given to anyone who has medical training to 'practice medicine'. It is not an end result of some good ol boy (Or girl) system. Experience is commendable and desireable. So why not build on that by showing respect for those who deserve it (Those who 'practice'), instead of "bullying" people in perceived 'territory'. Sometimes RN's are their own worst enemy...

 

[BSN]

Therein lies the problem. It is this Obstinance that marginalizes nurses. Some RN's are worse than others, creating the stereotype for all, and hence the hostility. It is a sad fact that the perception of nurses is that the helpful ones are woefully in the minority. Respect should be given to anyone who has medical training to 'practice medicine'. It is not an end result of some good ol boy (Or girl) system. Experience is commendable and desireable. So why not build on that by showing respect for those who deserve it (Those who 'practice'), instead of "bullying" people in perceived 'territory'. Sometimes RN's are their own worst enemy...

YOu have clearly read into my message wrong. Why are people acting like there is war going on, hey we are on the same team. It is clear the doctors are the leaders of the team but i just mean to say is that it is not in a RN's job to get coffee or charts (we are stressed out with the work we have as it is). i would as would any nurse love to help out a doctor in need and we do when we can as doctors help us. And you know what, if a respectful doctor asks me i will do it because as i said I love the docs i work with. Please don't read into my message wrong, read the one I answered to and you can clearly see that this was just a rude comment that i was answering to.
YOu can clearly see the message the says "nurie" is just rude and nothing more.

 

[guetzow]

Do that, and you may not like what's in it 😉 . However, if the chart is not in the rack, there's nothing wrong with asking where it is (And sometimes, if the RN is at the station, 'May/can I have the chart'?). Like it or not, keeping an orderly sation is not the provider's issue. Some guys and gals will always be slobs who never put things back, but you can't blame someone for asking when it's not in it's proper place. I've seen way too many RN's bark at people for doing just that.

 

[Mr.Nurse]

Do that, and you may not like what's in it 😉 . However, if the chart is not in the rack, there's nothing wrong with asking where it is (And sometimes, if the RN is at the station, 'May/can I have the chart'?). Like it or not, keeping an orderly sation is not the provider's issue. Some guys and gals will always be slobs who never put things back, but you can't blame someone for asking when it's not in it's proper place. I've seen way too many RN's bark at people for doing just that.

You obviously see no problem with the remark made by Orchard that BSN simply replied to. No one is aksing for a chart here--they are demanding one, and a cup of coffee! Nurses are not handmaidens and are certainly not subordinate to physicians. Orchard's comment, although I sarcastic, was sexist and chauvinistic. Try telling me to fetch you coffee with sugar and cream JACK!! Yeah, I thought so. I'm no MAN's B@$CH!!! We are all a team of professionals working towards a common goal of patient wellness. And yes, you (the doctor) are the leader of that team as you have earned it by many years of advanced education and training. This is the key here: All of the other valuable healthcare professionals that attend to "your" patient (Nurses, PTs, RTs, Xray, etc.) in the hospital--they don't work for you!! You can't fire or discipline any of them. Consider them professional consultants--assisting you in the care of the patient. An internist wouldn't tolerate a surgeon treating him/her as a subordinate--even though the internist technically has less years of training as the surgeon (like 4 years--alot by any measure). Why should it be any other than the same for a nurse and a physician. The old, convoluted, sexist, patriarchial medical model of care is antiquated and is not the best system for patient care in today's healthcare environment. Let's evolve people!

 

[BSN]

You obviously see no problem with the remark made by Orchard that BSN simply replied to. No one is aksing for a chart here--they are demanding one, and a cup of coffee! Nurses are not handmaidens and are certainly not subordinate to physicians. Orchard's comment, although I sarcastic, was sexist and chauvinistic. Try telling me to fetch you coffee with sugar and cream JACK!! Yeah, I thought so. I'm no MAN's B@$CH!!! We are all a team of professionals working towards a common goal of patient wellness. And yes, you (the doctor) are the leader of that team as you have earned it by many years of advanced education and training. This is the key here: All of the other valuable healthcare professionals that attend to "your" patient (Nurses, PTs, RTs, Xray, etc.) in the hospital--they don't work for you!! You can't fire or discipline any of them. Consider them professional consultants--assisting you in the care of the patient. An internist wouldn't tolerate a surgeon treating him/her as a subordinate--even though the internist technically has less years of training as the surgeon (like 4 years--alot by any measure). Why should it be any other than the same for a nurse and a physician. The old, convoluted, sexist, patriarchial medical model of care is antiquated and is not the best system for patient care in today's healthcare environment. Let's evolve people!

Thanks for the message!!

 

[BSN]

www.clinicianforum.com

After going to this forum i found more like it. I did not know that thier was such a movement. I think it is a good movement, hey we can use all the help out there.
Most people don't even know what an NP or PA is, which is odd. I think more media coverage for us will help. So many show about the hospital but i never see an NP or PA in them, which would show people what we do. Ok, well thanks for the forum.

 

[guetzow]

Loose cannon alert.... Where's that cleaning house I posted about earlier?

 

[benelswick]

Loose cannon alert.... Where's that cleaning house I posted about earlier?

Cool your dogs guetzow! At some point we must examine ourselves and our daily behavior to see if we are taking the positivity of a situation up or down a notch through our thoughts and actions. Hey I've got my issues too and am basically considered a "loose cannon" in terms of I can't stand being told what to do or being looked at like an ignorant scoundrel by some of the nursing staff. But I always fall right in step when in the presence of a nurse who
I feel respects me as a human being an as a professional and I really do enjoy helping that kind of person...funny thing is those types of people are almost always the best at what they do and what they inspire in others. so the question to answer ultimately, in my opinion, is how do you carry yourself in the healthcare environment and what do you inspire in others.--Ben

 

[fab4fan]

Cool your dogs guetzow! At some point we must examine ourselves and our daily behavior to see if we are taking the positivity of a situation up or down a notch through our thoughts and actions. Hey I've got my issues too and am basically considered a "loose cannon" in terms of I can't stand being told what to do or being looked at like an ignorant scoundrel by some of the nursing staff. But I always fall right in step when in the presence of a nurse who
I feel respects me as a human being an as a professional and I really do enjoy helping that kind of person...funny thing is those types of people are almost always the best at what they do and what they inspire in others. so the question to answer ultimately, in my opinion, is how do you carry yourself in the healthcare environment and what do you inspire in others.--Ben

Excellent post, Ben! I don't think being offended at being treated like a "scoundrel" makes you a loose cannon. It makes you pretty normal, IMO.

 

[guetzow]

Thank you BSN. Not all RNs are oppositional defiant. 🙂

 

[Mr.Nurse]

Hey nursie!! Do me a favor, will ya'? Go fetch Mr. X's chart, get me some coffee (cream, sugar), and realize your place in the hierarchy of medicine, ok? To simplify: Doctors >> Nurses.

😍

This was the rude remark that BSN and I were referring to. You (Guetzow)are obviously the one here that is oppositional defiant since you make no reference to the flagrantly derogatory comment on nurses and instead choose to talk about how so many RNs are operationally disobedient to doctors and are causing anarchy in the healthcare hierarchy. If you (I'm guessing your a future physician) ask me to get you a cup of coffee, I just might if I have time and like you. But if you tell me to get you a cup of coffee, I'll tell you get it your own damn self! 😡 Sorry, not in my job description. And if you need a patient's chart, go get it your own damn self! I' m just as busy as you are! Oh, and if the chart is not in the right place, don't assume that I was a lazy slob and put it down somewhere and forgot about it. PT could have it, Nutrition might have misplaced it, or ....another one of your distinguished colleagues, Dr. Joe Blow, the consulting physician, might just have left it in his car with the rest of the three missing charts I've been searching for all shift.

Respect given when due!! That goes both ways, Doctor.

 

[anesthesiadrew]

This was the rude remark that BSN and I were referring to. You (Guetzow)are obviously the one here that is oppositional defiant since you make no reference to the flagrantly derogatory comment on nurses and instead choose to talk about how so many RNs are operationally disobedient to doctors and are causing anarchy in the healthcare hierarchy. If you (I'm guessing your a future physician) ask me to get you a cup of coffee, I just might if I have time and like you. But if you tell me to get you a cup of coffee, I'll tell you get it your own damn self! 😡 Sorry, not in my job description. And if you need a patient's chart, go get it your own damn self! I' m just as busy as you are! Oh, and if the chart is not in the right place, don't assume that I was a lazy slob and put it down somewhere and forgot about it. PT could have it, Nutrition might have misplaced it, or ....another one of your distinguished colleagues, Dr. Joe Blow, the consulting physician, might just have left it in his car with the rest of the three missing charts I've been searching for all shift.

Respect given when due!! That goes both ways, Doctor.

Very well said.

 

[guetzow]

Think I already said that.

 

[caroladybelle]

Do that, and you may not like what's in it 😉 . However, if the chart is not in the rack, there's nothing wrong with asking where it is (And sometimes, if the RN is at the station, 'May/can I have the chart'?). Like it or not, keeping an orderly sation is not the provider's issue. Some guys and gals will always be slobs who never put things back, but you can't blame someone for asking when it's not in it's proper place. I've seen way too many RN's bark at people for doing just that.

Now, if the blooming interns/residents/attendings would just put it back in place after they used it, there wouldn't be quite as big a problem.

Along with eating nurses lunches (yeah, that bag was marked with my name for a reason), leaving notes with confidential info all over the place where visitors can see it, not knocking on a patient's door (trust me, they notice and remember), discusses cases in the elevator, and my favorite, saying to no one in particular...really loudly, repeatedly, and with an air of self importance..."Where are our templates, I can't find enough of them...I just know that I went to MEDICAL SCHOOL to do data processing and make copies". Guess what buddy? It is your job to make up a template (I know the guy that designed the one of which you speak...and he is a much better MD than you), you use the templates and are concerned about them, you must let the secretary (who has the secret code to the unit copier) if you need more. Or use the copier in the call room where you have the code. I worry about my required paperwork and equipment, you worry about yours.

Asking is never a problem, acting like a fool is. And I am the one that bails your intern self out, when you forgot to put in daily labs on the diabetic neutropenic cancer patient with a platelet count of 11, something that will trash you in the eyes of your attending. Or neglected to remember to reorder all orders placed after surgery. Or can't seem to remember that you have to order a new tube of blood for crossmatch every 3 days. Or order multiple duplicate meds.

I don't have to do these things. But I do. Not because you are "in charge" of me. But because I hope you succeed and want to support you in your quest to become a "member of the team". And team mates help each other out, even if they do not particular like one another.

Your Mama doesn't live here....and you are merely visiting. Be a good guest and a team player.
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It's been a rough July in the Teaching hospital........

 

[guetzow]

 

[justmanda]

However, back to the original question I think some nurses are unhappy becuase they feel underappreciated. I can see why after reading some of these posts. It sucks to have people think that all we (that's right if you couldn't have guessed I am a nurse) do is put people on bed pans or sleep with the doctors (or as one person put it) suck doctors dicks. Nurses really do a lot that people don't realize. I work in a prison and when there's no doctor on staff I have to make a decision about what treatment inmates recieve and if inmates need to be transfered out. Sure some of us suck at what we do but that can be said about any profession.

Nursing is not an easy job we take a lot of **** and it can be thankless. But what really puts the icing on the cake to it is hearing some of our own colleagues say bad things about our profession.

I have to thank those of you who took a stand and really talked about the work nurses do. As to the other ones... try for one day doing the work that a nurse does (or anyother profession that you feel is beneth you) and you can see what sort of crap people have to deal with and will hopefully open your eyes.

I will respond to you at my peril, since I am of your ilk..an RN. First of all, to the previous posters, I am a 2year RN and make 100,000K/year for a four day work week. Granted, I hate my job...but I can sling crap for that kind of money. Now, on to my response to BOOGITA's post. Why do you and all these other nurses feel the need to defend your profession so? Oh, please respect me. I swear I do more than clean ****. I am really part of the healthcare TEAM...Please think I'm important toooo. It really is embarrassing. Whenever management tries to boost our egos by saying we are part of the decision-making healthcare team, I feel like a 6 year old who just gave her mom a homemade clay ashtray shaped like a duck. "You're a wonderful sculptor honey"....Gee thanks ma. Anyone who has crap splash on her face while she rinses out some stranger's bedpan is of the blue-collar/laborer genre, at best. Sure, it's important that somebody does that, otherwise there would be a lot of buckets of crap lying around, but let's not act like we need a medal just for showing up for work. I don't care if a doctor respects me. As long as he isn't openly hostile or abusive, who cares? He can quietly think I'm a ***** and I will go on with my life unaffected. What bothers nurses the most (the one's who don't have inferiority complexes) is the nurse/patient ratios. We would like to get through a shift without confused grandpa crawling out of bed and cracking his skull on the bedside table while we are fetching coffee for the umpteen family members we have to serve. That's what we want to hear from management....we will staff you safely, not "I respect you, I promise."