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Out of curiosity, is there anyone here from Ottawa?
University of Toronto Application Thread
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Well it's just a popularity contest. They'll tell you what you want to hear to buy your vote and ignore the fact that their party platforms are as well balanced as any one legged stool (two at best).
One of the biggest issues I'm worried about is our national debt, which currently stands at 560 billion (that's 16 000 for every man, woman, child, and soon to be born children). It's not getting any smaller so sooner or later the ordure is going to hit the oscillator and WE (the soon to be working class) are going to be left with cleaning up the mess. At least we're not as deep in the grave as, say, the USA (debt > 100% GDP last time i checked) or Japan (debt > 220% GDP probably more due to the quake); for Canada it's <30% GDP (for now).
Anywho, back to our beloved parties and their car sale flyers - I mean party platforms. I haven't read them in detail so please correct me if I'm wrong, but they ALL seem to share these in common:
-Spend money (i.e. Improve X services, family support, 'Learning Passport')
-Decrease government's spending power/save YOU money (Tax cuts)
-But don't worry [Party] will still cut the national debt simply by "fixing Ottawa" (NDP) and "by controlling spending and cutting waste" (Conservatives). The Liberals go even further since, in addition, they promise to "review all federal program spending".
In a perfect world, perhaps we can balance the budget by simply eliminating waste, but I don't believe, provided the government's track record, that this is a viable way to fix the problem. They're basically ignoring the issue completely and sweeping it under the rug by saying they'll eliminate waste. Especially when a USB 4Gb stick still costs 60$ to order from their 'suppliers' when you can walk in to any store and find it in the bargain bin for 10$...
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that when you owe money to creditors cutting your income and spending more money isn't going to fix anything. Of course no one's going to admit to this since increasing taxes is political suicide.
When I get the time I'll have a more detailed look that the platforms, and probably end up voting for the one which is most likely to increase the debt by the least amount.
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I'm from Ottawa! Though waaay on the west end in Kanata
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Hey RocketJumper, you are one of the few people I've seen that voiced concerns for the nation as a whole, the national debt, rather than first voicing your own concerns. I think I am on the same mindset in that I worry about our national debt too. In a perfect situation we shouldn't have any debt at all, or at least not as high as 500 Billion. I just know that if I were the government I would first focus on reducing and planning to eliminate our debt..... I get so uncomfortable when I have debts...
I've been watching TV on this election issue and I've seen many people asking questions mainly concerning themselves. Can't really give attitutes to that, but I think it is at times necessary to sacrifice ourselves a little for a debt-free nation tomorrow. Maybe it's because we are too young, and once we reach our 40s we'd be like them too?
Just a little thought over here
I've been watching TV on this election issue and I've seen many people asking questions mainly concerning themselves. Can't really give attitutes to that, but I think it is at times necessary to sacrifice ourselves a little for a debt-free nation tomorrow. Maybe it's because we are too young, and once we reach our 40s we'd be like them too?
Just a little thought over here
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B illion,
500 T rillion of money i think doesnt even exist in this world your talkin 30 times US GDP,
anyways so Canada's federal debt is 560 billion but guess what ONTARIOS provincial debt is a staggering 230 billion dollars, twice as much as california (and keep in mind cali has a population about 3 times the size of ontario, so in that respect we are doubly screwed.
I think i'm voting NDP, no particular reason other than liberals hate pharmacists, conservatives spent 1 billion hosting a useless meeting (g8), so i wanna give the ndp a try...
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LOL that was a blank in my brain😱
I just think that if I hold office, my first priority would be to reduce the debt in proportion to what we are earning. We can't expect growth forever, and someday, our debt will come back to haunt us.
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The problem is 'debt' and 'deficit' along with the cure 'tax increase' are all political taboo. Parties will never admit to it themselves, but are content throwing them at each other. I have never seen a serious attempt at fixing it either since, as previously mentioned, no one's going to elect you if you propose taxation.
Ever notice that whenever national debt is mentioned it's just that - national debt with no context. Maybe sometimes you'll hear 500 billion, or half a trillion. Sorry, but after 1 million it just becomes a statistic to which people cannot associate. I think I have read once (and only once) on a news website that actually gave the dollar/person figure which has a huge impact. Ask around to see how well informed Canadians really are about our national debt. See if they knew how much each one of them owed.
The reason is CBC is funded by the government too and since the deficit is usually slapped onto the ruling party, it would probably be suicide to truthfully report about how much we owe in a meaningful context (and how much we pay in interest each year; over the last 20 odd years just under 1 trillion thanks to the magic of compound interest). If you can stomach the disgust go and read about the 'Canadian debt scam of the century'. On the other hand...reporting about our 'apparent' resilience in the face of the recent global economic recession seems to be the main focus. It's a simple case of, not talking smack about your boss but butter'em up with praise. And in our free and seemingly unbiased society, people seem to accept it at face value without digging deeper.
It's a tough issue and I can see why people ignore it. If I were 40, earning an average salary, much of which was going to taxes, mortgage, and food, I too would rather vote for the guy promising to spend 1 billion more on family support and lowering taxes.
Ultimately, it's kind of ironic that every party is trying to buy our votes with OUR money (well, credit actually), and we get suckered every time (not that there is any foreseeable alternative).
GDP = C + I + G + (I-X)
G is government spending, the reason why the debt/deficit is so high in Canada, ontario and the US.
Cut that out, and the good times end. Literally.
Politicians know this, and they might talk about it but no body has the balls to cut spending in a signifigant way. Its not goingto happen until it's too late (markets do it for us) and we will haev a recession deeper than 2008.
So us choosing pharmacy for the next 4 years is an awesome choice because we are in school during this slow down plus we are entering a field that is always in demand, plus canadas age demographic is shifting slowly to a large amount of seniors which for the most part are on some kind of meds plus the business model of pharmacy is expanding so we have more to do.
But all that is besides the point, I think we should all strive for being more personal with patients as sadly most pharmacies i've gone to (maybe others have better experiences) the pharmacist literally hands me my drugs and thats it. Some kind of connection/trust should be developed, not only does it make your job more fun but you start to care. Anyways thats for the people that will end up in community pharmacies... as for all the people that are going into industry/sales/pharma I don't see anything wrong.
G is government spending, the reason why the debt/deficit is so high in Canada, ontario and the US.
Cut that out, and the good times end. Literally.
Politicians know this, and they might talk about it but no body has the balls to cut spending in a signifigant way. Its not goingto happen until it's too late (markets do it for us) and we will haev a recession deeper than 2008.
So us choosing pharmacy for the next 4 years is an awesome choice because we are in school during this slow down plus we are entering a field that is always in demand, plus canadas age demographic is shifting slowly to a large amount of seniors which for the most part are on some kind of meds plus the business model of pharmacy is expanding so we have more to do.
But all that is besides the point, I think we should all strive for being more personal with patients as sadly most pharmacies i've gone to (maybe others have better experiences) the pharmacist literally hands me my drugs and thats it. Some kind of connection/trust should be developed, not only does it make your job more fun but you start to care. Anyways thats for the people that will end up in community pharmacies... as for all the people that are going into industry/sales/pharma I don't see anything wrong.
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http://www.debtclock.ca/
Check this website, and you will know that our debt grows by $1000 every second or two due to interest!
I can't believe we are failing ourselves like this. Man someday we must completely eliminate our debt or we'll have our future completely screwed up.
Check this website, and you will know that our debt grows by $1000 every second or two due to interest!
I can't believe we are failing ourselves like this. Man someday we must completely eliminate our debt or we'll have our future completely screwed up.
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yayyy 😀 and here I thought I was the only one. Seems that everyone on this forum is either from the toronto area or an oop student from BC.
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Guys! I just sat in front of the monitor for 4 hours reading the whole thread! I wish I looked at this forum earlier. It mirrors exactly my internal debate / worry throughout my application process (this, and last year).
There's definitely a lot of comfort in knowing that everyone else applying IS after all human. I guess the whole application process got me all paranoid and I was imagining that I'm fighting against test-acing machines (I'm not implying you guys aren't smart, just saying that I didn't know you're social too!). My interview's in May...hope I'll make it this time with 50% of you! (or probably more...considering interviews are important and only the versed ones (like most of you) will pass!.
Anywho, since the current topic is politics, I'd just like to say that it's important to vote for the most well-rounded candidate:
- someone proving a consistent fight against issues most important to you (like a pre-pharm with a high GPA); and issues most important to the majority of people will get addressed
- someone who can deliver over the short term, like in a crisis (like a pre-pharm with good PCAT scores)
- and someone with good social skills to be able to avoid conflicts, wars, bad deals with bad people (like a pre-pharm with good interview skills).
If only pharmacy application was like politics and we could play dirty!
There's definitely a lot of comfort in knowing that everyone else applying IS after all human. I guess the whole application process got me all paranoid and I was imagining that I'm fighting against test-acing machines (I'm not implying you guys aren't smart, just saying that I didn't know you're social too!). My interview's in May...hope I'll make it this time with 50% of you! (or probably more...considering interviews are important and only the versed ones (like most of you) will pass!.
Anywho, since the current topic is politics, I'd just like to say that it's important to vote for the most well-rounded candidate:
- someone proving a consistent fight against issues most important to you (like a pre-pharm with a high GPA); and issues most important to the majority of people will get addressed
- someone who can deliver over the short term, like in a crisis (like a pre-pharm with good PCAT scores)
- and someone with good social skills to be able to avoid conflicts, wars, bad deals with bad people (like a pre-pharm with good interview skills).
If only pharmacy application was like politics and we could play dirty!
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Welll, welcome to the thick off it. You will definetly enjoy this forum. Maybe in aproximately 71 days we will all be classmates!!!
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We'll Ottawa really isn't THAT big (like TO and Vancouver). Which area are you from?
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Haha I pretty much did the exact same thing as you xP Been reading for HOURS. Didn't realize such a forum existed! I'm really paranoid too, moreso because after reading this forum, I know that my GPA isn't remotely close to competitive enough so I probably won't get in 🙁
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Don't worry, GPA is definitely not everything. The interview is a big player as well and maybe PCAT scores will come into consideration after interviews as well! 🙂
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@mochaswirl
what did the guys in admission dep say?
I'm in the similar SITUATION
what did the guys in admission dep say?
I'm in the similar SITUATION
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If it's a PRE-REQ course that's been deferred you must inform them in writing (otherwise when they get your final transcript you will not meet the pre-req conditions).
Chances are you'll be fine and just get conditional offers; the condition being you pass that pre-req and send in the marks at a later date.
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I actually didn't contact them as yet. As stated above, informing them in writing would be the best option, but I will still call and talk to someone to ensure that it won't be a problem in terms of admission. I'll likely do this Tuesday after my exams are over and let you know what they say. 🙂
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I am actually a bit nervous for you. On the U of T Pharmacy FAQ website, Q1, it is indicated clearly that "... you are eligible to apply provided you will be completing all required courses by April/May, in time for your final grades to be issued by the mid-June transcript deadline. If you do not anticipate that you will complete all required courses in time for the final transcript to be received by our office by the June deadline, you should wait until the subsequent year to apply. "
http://pharmacy.utoronto.ca/programs/bsc/admissions/faqs.htm#Application Process
It seems that they are saying this in a tone such that they wouldn't make exceptions to applicants. I hope you make it though. Tell us what they say when you hear back from them.
I think that in mochaswirl's case, its a little different, because something happened which was out of her hands, an "out of the ordinary" delay.
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I agree. She (?) was taking the course this semester so the anticipated marks would have been available for the deadline. If the exam got deferred for a legitimate reason then it becomes a special case.
I think the wording on the UoT website is directed more so towards people trying to take the pre-reqs as summer courses; the key phrase is 'anticipate' to finish.
That said, it would be in your best interest (anyone in this situation) to get in touch with both UoT admins and your current prof as soon as possible. Usually a deferred exam is written in mid June - July and the marks are not posted until late August - September. So try to work something out with the prof so you can either write the exam earlier, or maybe they can mark yours first and post the mark as soon as its available.
I wouldn't be surprised if this has happened before to previous applicants, so you can always check last year's forum to see if there's any helpful info.
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Although I'd like to believe you, I'm pretty sure that GPA will be worth more than PCAT and Interviews combined in terms of a weighting scheme. My guess is that they'd use the interviews to phase out some people, sort of like the PCAT scores, but this number will likely be very small. From what I've seen when I met other candidates on my interview day, I still think a large number of the applicant pool will remain even after considering interview scores and then maybe a few more can may removed through PCATs, but ultimately its GPA that matters most. That's just my take on it though.
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I am trying to speculate how U of T weighs our 3 components. I think they use the PCAT solely to screen out of some applicants initially, then establish a minimum interview score to flag out some additional applicants, then use a combined GPA and interview (50, 50?) only (not PCAT) score (however they do it) to rank the final pool of applicants.
We should keep in mind that this is a competition, and that the competition strength remains the same every year because the number of applicants receiving an interview is unaffected by the total number of applicants. If they have many applicants, they raise PCAT cut offs; if they have fewer, they lower PCAT cut offs.
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Actually I think they will still use PCAT, but they are going to use it to weed out people who had really low PCATS... as they mentioned in the PCAT cutoff document, they will use a "higher" cutoff after interviews to weed out / rank applicants.
After all, I doubt someone who has barely passed the minimum PCAT cutoffs, will get admitted regardless of how amazing their GPA and interview were!
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Well if they do use the PCATs, I can't imagine them raising the average on all sections beyond a 50 at most. I'm pretty sure they assess academic strength using GPA alone and the PCAT is just a filtering mechanism. So those who remain in the pool after the 2nd PCAT filtering, followed by an initial interview filtering, will likely be judged on a combination of GPA and interviews. If that happens, I just hope that interviews will be worth as much or greater than GPA....although I doubt that will happen 🙁
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It looks like you've done so well on the interview. I am actually nervous about the interview.
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I know it's small in comparison but when I wrote my pcat's there was alot of people writing theirs as well and I'm sure alot of them were using them to apply to UofT since waterloo doesn't need pcats. Anyhow, I'm sure there is more but they haven't stumbled upon this forum yet. I'm actually from the west too; not too far from kanata 🙂
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Oh no no lol. Sorry if it seemed that way. I applied last year (and obviously got rejected) and did the interview too, so this is my 2nd time going through it and I just have a better feeling about it this year 😛 At the very least, I think my interview is way better than my GPA, so it's my only hope x_x
But if you haven't done your interview yet, don't worry 🙂 It's not intimidating at all and I think you may even enjoy it a little~
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First of all welcome to the forum 😀 and Secondly, don't lose hope because last year some people were admitted with a gpa in the low 70s. So gpa isn't really everything. Last year, UofT set a mininum for the interview and if you didn't get the min, then you were rejected. Those remaining candiates were then ranked based on all three components; interview, gpa and pcat. Although the uni doesn't release any information of the weight of each component, I believe that the interview is a huge component if not everything after you do your interview. There might be a small exception this year where after the interviews, they reject those who have done poorly on many of the pcat sections (not just one) but in my mind, I still believe the interview will play a huge role 🙂
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Thanks for the welcome ^_^ I would honestly love if the interview played larger role than the GPA, but from talking to people who used to be involved in the Pharm admissions, it seems GPA is really the largest component in the ranking of GPA, interview and pcat. That's because GPA is the only academic factor and PCAT and interviews together are considered non-academics. But I also know that the ranking varies depending on the applicant pool and U of T (or any other school) will lower the minimums on any of the sections if the average of the applicant pool requires it. At the very end of the process, I assume they pick people who best meet the averages in all 3 sections and everyone else gets on the waitlist or gets rejected.
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Like your FICO credit scores, we'll never know how they weight the PCAT/GPA/interviews when making the final decisions. They ALL seem important.
CGPA is used by all the professional schools since studies have shown it to be the best predictor of future academic performance (they don't want anyone dropping out).
Interviews are meant to test your non-academic abilities (communication/logic stuff like that)
PCAT seems to tie in with CGPA, but I think its main role is in assessing your reading/writing abilities. If your GPA is high chances are you'll do well in the non-language sections anyways.
No one wants a pharmacist who's straight A's but hard to get along with. The same can be said for someone nice/sociable but academically inept. The problem is how do we balance these traits? Academics:Non-academics 50:50? 60:40? 40:60? There's no defined line. Weighting probably shifts depending on the applicants too. If a large number of people share similar academic strength (tight CGPA grouping) then more emphasis may be put on the interview and vice versa.
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I agree with all your points, but the way I look at it is that PCAT is mainly used to measure applicants against the same standard academic indicator... in a way, they want to standardize everyones' academic performance and PCAT is the only way to do that.
And I STRONGLY argue that PCAT is NOT a good test to assess someone's language proficiency. After all, almost everyone gets 3/3 on the writing portion (how's that a good indicator that applicant A has a better writing than applicant B?)... also, how does knowing random words (for the analogies section) indicate that someone is going to be a good communicator as a pharmacist????
With all this said, I think the selection process has evolved to become a very good and accurate process during the last few years... I'm sure that the "batch" of new pharmacist who'll graduate in 3-4 years from now will prove this.
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I agree, the PCAT as a standardized test is a way of assessing academic abilities of all applicants in the same way. While marks say a lot, there is also A LOT of variability between universities and even within universities. For example, at Mac this year Phys chem was a complete bird course but at other universities from what I've heard it can be just brutal. Also, it was also extremely brutal last year, until the prof changed. So marks vary a lot...
That said, I know Mac's med school looked at indicators of success for clinicians, and actually MMI performance was one of the strongest indicators of success. As someone stated above, it's important that health care professionals be academically capable, but social kills are equally important - which is probably why the MMI is becoming more and more popular everywhere.
completely agree. Phys chem at western this year was a bird course too but heard it was just murder at U of T. Its very hard to speculate the weighting of the three admissions components when we don't know the stats of the entire applicant pool
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Lol, didn't know you're from Western too 😉
So which phys chem did you take, the term 1 one (chem 2374a) or the term 2 one (chem 2214b) ???
I took 2374 and it was SUPER easy, barely did any work and got an A easily 😛
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Thank you. It is so comforting to know that the interview is not intimidating. I am so afraid to come across a scenario where I would completely blank it and not knowing what to do so I would just sit there the whole time. So nervous about that.
Ya its BS like that which makes the PCAT a necessary part of the admissions process. Phys chem at U of T is brutal. It was a tough course a couple years ago when I took it and its tough to this day. This coming from a person who got 90+ on the chem component of PCAT. Its really a slap in the face to students at U of T who suffer through more difficult pre-reqs when the same pre-reqs at other universities are so much easier.
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Completely understand where you're coming from... although, I must add that we ALL had the option of going to any university we wanted, no one was forced to go to Western vs. UofT vs. wherever right? Point is: if you choose to attend a highly prestigious university, it will come at a price 😉😉😉😉
And you're right, PCAT is a very good way to see who's competent academically and who's not.
hehe i toold the second term one 2214b just had the final exam today actually lol the final was a bit more difficult than the midterm but i had a really high mark going in thanks to a midterm that was a joke and the assignments and labs are basically free marks
Actually some of us had to take finances into consideration and attend a university close to home rather than going into exorbitant debt to go to "any university we wanted." Also U of T is not a prestigious university by any stretch of the imagination.
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Honestly, I don't think anyone can have a complete blank. You'll always have SOME thoughts about any subject, but it's just a matter of organizing your thoughts, expandng on them and most importantly-staying calm 😛 If you're really that nervous, just practice until you feel confident enough to handle the real thing 🙂
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Agree to some degree... I, too, had to take into consideration finances... but thank god that everything worked out well financially for me!
And as far as I'm concerned, UofT is considered one of the more prestigious universities in Canada... for one thing, there've been many revolutionary researches done at UofT for which people have won nobel prizes... I don't know about you, but I call that prestigious 😀
Anyways, wish you all the best with applications, we can debate on these stuff next year face-to-face (hopefully) if we become classmates 👍
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lol, I heard the final was today... btw, do you mind if I ask what the average for midterm was? I just wanna have an idea about how it compared to 2374 which I took last term.
Then again, I'm some what glad I go to U of T (maybe this is me rationalizing for all the sleepless nights). Since we have to take some pre-req courses again in pharmacy, I think Toronto students will be better prepared in terms of expectations and work ethic (in general); since we already experienced the initial toils of U of T in our undergrad years. I agree that U of T is not the most prestigious university, but it is definitely one of the toughest to survive through without going insane.
I also like the fact that I don't have to mail my transcript to U of T, saves me the hassle and couple of bucks.
mid to high 70 i think don't remember the exact number wasnt paying attention when the prof was going over the exam lol
Hey guys,
does anybody currently have an interview with UW in 2 weeks??
I am so confused about the first 5-10 mins of the interview, I have no idea what to say... it says to give insights of you as an individual, but to focus on a hobby ... what if I don't HAVE a hardcore hobby?
does anyone have the same dilemma?
does anybody currently have an interview with UW in 2 weeks??
I am so confused about the first 5-10 mins of the interview, I have no idea what to say... it says to give insights of you as an individual, but to focus on a hobby ... what if I don't HAVE a hardcore hobby?
does anyone have the same dilemma?
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Welcome to the forum butoias. You may get a bit more help if you posed on the UW thread.
That said, you don't need to focus on a single hobby right? Do some soul searching and figure out 2 or 3 things you are really into (that would portray you well), then look for similarities. For example, if you like to hike and camp, the theme would be nature.
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I've got a question regarding U of T MMI. Are we scored by the interviewers based on a standard, or are we scored relative to all other interviewees?
If we are scored based on a standard, then our marks reflect how good we are in absolute terms. A 70 is a 70 and a 90 is a 90. But if we are scored relative to all other interviewees at that time, then no matter how good you are, if others are better than you, you get a bad score; conversely, no matter how bad you are, if others are worse than you, then you can receive a pretty decent mark.
If we are scored based on a standard, then our marks reflect how good we are in absolute terms. A 70 is a 70 and a 90 is a 90. But if we are scored relative to all other interviewees at that time, then no matter how good you are, if others are better than you, you get a bad score; conversely, no matter how bad you are, if others are worse than you, then you can receive a pretty decent mark.
I don't think it would make any difference, with either way we would be compared against the same group of students, and the actual number wouldn't really matter.
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