Using Retirement to Fund Pre Med

[DrSmooth]

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I have searched and read the threads about this, but have some more specific questions. I am married with two young kids (2 & 4)and would like to do a year of post bac pre med full time without working and without my wife working (or maybe working part-time). If loans can't cover us is using funds from our roth and rollover IRAs a viable option? We have about 70K. How does the IRS distinguish what money went where? Like whether it was my loans paying tuition fees, or my IRA withdrawals? How would the withdrawals affect my financial aid eligibility in the coming years?

 

[Foghorn]

Try setting up a 529 account.

 

[DrMidlife]

If you're willing to learn how, or you're willing to hire a CPA, you can deduct educational expenses against IRA deductions, and in theory, avoid most of the taxes on early withdrawals.

I don't recommend this. I did it, and I should have just pursued private loans. You are not going to believe how much they'll lend you for a year of undergrad. Boatloads.

Also, your home equity and retirement savings are not counted as assets come financial aid time. So if you leave these alone, it won't hurt you in getting the "good" federal loans with low rates once med school starts.

Lastly, don't underestimate the costs associated with MCAT, applying, secondaries and interview travel. These are SIZEABLE.

Best of luck to you.

 

[neurologist]

I cannot emphasize what a bad idea I think this is.

Are you working now? If so, DON'T QUIT YOUR DAY JOB!!!!!!

Take a couple of classes part time (maybe 2 classes/semester) to get into the swing of classes and make sure you can pull A's. If you do, you then can think about going full time (although I almost always suggest against it . . .). If you do the full time thing, take loans. NEVER raid the retirement fund!!!!

 

[Doctor Bagel]

I cannot emphasize what a bad idea I think this is.

Are you working now? If so, DON'T QUIT YOUR DAY JOB!!!!!!

Take a couple of classes part time (maybe 2 classes/semester) to get into the swing of classes and make sure you can pull A's. If you do, you then can think about going full time (although I almost always suggest against it . . .). If you do the full time thing, take loans. NEVER raid the retirement fund!!!!

I agree 100%. For nontrads, the best financial option is to keep the job and go parttime at night. Big considerations are how easy would it be for you to find a job after you complete this postbacc year -- most people apply after they've completed most of their prereqs, leaving a lag year. Quitting your job means you've got to do another job search for a one year or so position so you don't dip more into the retirements savings (or worse max it out). And what if you don't get in for whatever reason? 50% of applicants don't get accepted, so it's good to keep your current career where you want it.

 

[Archer]

I emptied retirement fund, sold house and also had to take out some loan money but I wanted to apply as soon as possible and go to school full-time. I got in this year - applied to 4 schools got 2 acceptances. I was in more of a time crunch as I am 49.

Totally worth it!! Although I did ask my accountant.

 

[neurologist]

I emptied retirement fund, sold house and also had to take out some loan money but I wanted to apply as soon as possible and go to school full-time. I got in this year - applied to 4 schools got 2 acceptances. I was in more of a time crunch as I am 49.

Totally worth it!! Although I did ask my accountant.

Well, congrats, but what if instead of the acceptances you collected 4 rejections?

The OP didn't really fill us in on too many details of his background, so all I can say is that generally it's one thing to be confident of one's abilities, but quite another to be overconfident (or desperate) to the point of recklessness.

 

[notdeadyet]

Are you working now? If so, DON'T QUIT YOUR DAY JOB!!!!!!

I disagree. Not quiting the day job is only a sound strategy if you are not planning on matriculating medical school, are just testing the waters, or are making over $100K/year.

You are best off taking the plunge, using one year to focus purely on your application and do the best you can, and flip the switch. The years you save doing this will be extra years spent as a physician making physician wages.

 

[neurologist]

I disagree. Not quiting the day job is only a sound strategy if you are not planning on matriculating medical school, are just testing the waters, or are making over $100K/year.

You are best off taking the plunge, using one year to focus purely on your application and do the best you can, and flip the switch. The years you save doing this will be extra years spent as a physician making physician wages.

Again, as one of the other posters pointed out, 50% of applicants get in. That's 50% of applicants . . . no mention of the countless others who never even bother to apply because they got poor grades/MCATs and dropped out of the process before they even got to the application stage.

Unless you really, really, really hate your current job or are in some kind of "McJob" that's easily transferrable, I'd hold on to it as insurance.

Call me a pessimist, but I think a 40-something non-trad just starting the process has to realize that the odds are stacked against them . . .

 

[DrMidlife]

Again, as one of the other posters pointed out, 50% of applicants get in. That's 50% of applicants . . . no mention of the countless others who never even bother to apply because they got poor grades/MCATs and dropped out of the process before they even got to the application stage.

It's actually 60% that don't get accepted, and this year it'll probably push to 65%. That's MD and DO. Crappy odds.

Unless you really, really, really hate your current job or are in some kind of "McJob" that's easily transferrable, I'd hold on to it as insurance.

My well-paid fulltime job was just not something I could keep doing. I'd done everything I possibly could (changed jobs, changed my attitude, yoga, etc) to keep going. It just wasn't going to work at all for me to keep working and try to learn anything on the side, much less get good grades at it. The smart thing for me to do, at 38 years old with an overextended mortgage, was to suck it up for a couple more years. I did a ******ed thing instead: I quit, sold the house at a loss, drained my savings, took out student loans, and finally tapped into my 401k a bit. Not smart planning whatsoever: more like NO planning.

But it's a very interesting position to be in: no debt, sucky career, no husband, no kids, no adult supervision, big brain, big ambition, big fat research-oriented medical school in town. A girl gets ideas. A girl takes risks. This girl accepts the consequences. I got rejected by 33 MD schools and am in the (brackish, smelly) competitive pool at a 34th. I've made friends with the reality of being broke, moving to Florida and starting DO school at age 42.

If I hadn't gotten into a DO school that I'm happy with, I'd have moved to either TX or FL, set up residency, enrolled in an SMP, retaken the MCAT, and then worked as an EMT and a MCAT tutor for another application year, putting myself in much worse financial shape, and would have started med school at 44. That wouldn't be any crazier than the path I've taken so far, but I'm still relieved I don't have to do it.

In my family it's considered pretty cool to own no more than what can fit in your car while you move cross country to follow a dream. My mom did that a couple years ago at age 70. She's broke, lives cheaply, enjoys working, is happy, and takes excellent care of herself. I love everything about her life except the broke part, but it's not clear to me that I'd take assets and niceties over health and happiness in my 70's.

Call me a pessimist, but I think a 40-something non-trad just starting the process has to realize that the odds are stacked against them . . .

Isn't that the truth. I lost a couple of friendships over the risk I've taken. People couldn't understand why I can't just be a nurse or a teacher or get a PhD. Why couldn't I just continue to make huge charitable donations off my huge engineering salary - wouldn't that be doing a greater good than taking myself out of productive society for 10+ years?

But here I am, starting med school, and I did it in a really stupid way, financially. I hope nobody does it like I did. I'm a cautionary tale. I could have very easily ended up broke, 50, not in medical school, back in engineering, miserable.

 

[neurologist]

. . . no husband, no kids, no adult supervision . . .

Well, this is the key thing in your situation. An adult with no other commitments can do whatever the heck they want if they're willing to take the risk. Once you add on family, you need to think long and hard before taking risks with your spouse's or kids' futures . . .

 

[DrMidlife]

Well, this is the key thing in your situation. An adult with no other commitments can do whatever the heck they want if they're willing to take the risk. Once you add on family, you need to think long and hard before taking risks with your spouse's or kids' futures . . .

Yep. All that freedom is nothing but trouble.

 

[notdeadyet]

Again, as one of the other posters pointed out, 50% of applicants get in. That's 50% of applicants . . . no mention of the countless others who never even bother to apply because they got poor grades/MCATs and dropped out of the process before they even got to the application stage.

Yes, but following your logic, folks shouldn't apply at all. If you have halfway decent stats and are open to DO and moving anywhere in the country, your odds of acceptance goes up dramatically. The advice hinges on the applicant.

If the OP has a 3.5 undergrad GPA and did well in the science night classes he took, I'd recommend going full tilt and gettnig to medical school. If the OP has a 2.5 undergrad GPA and pulled B's in his science night classes, he should do the part-time thing.

Unless you really, really, really hate your current job or are in some kind of "McJob" that's easily transferrable, I'd hold on to it as insurance.

Most folks apply to medical school for a reason. Non-trads I know are not applying to medical school because they're happy with their job. If they don't get in to medical school, they'll pursue some other calling. I don't know any that are happy enough with their current job to keep it.

Call me a pessimist, but I think a 40-something non-trad just starting the process has to realize that the odds are stacked against them . . .

The odds are stacked against everyone. Work hard, perform well, have an open mind and those odds against you go down dramatically. They're never a sure thing, but you do have some control.

Where are you getting that the OP is 40-something? I didn't pick up on that.

 

[neurologist]

Yes, but following your logic, folks shouldn't apply at all. If you have halfway decent stats and are open to DO and moving anywhere in the country, your odds of acceptance goes up dramatically. The advice hinges on the applicant.

If the OP has a 3.5 undergrad GPA and did well in the science night classes he took, I'd recommend going full tilt and gettnig to medical school. If the OP has a 2.5 undergrad GPA and pulled B's in his science night classes, he should do the part-time thing.

I don't know what the OP's full educational story is. My main advice to the OP was not to raid his retirement fund to pay for education. Secondary advice was not to quit his day job right away. I stand by those regardless of his GPA. Since then, I think we've gotten a little derailed.

I don't know any that are happy enough with their current job to keep it.

We largely go based on our own experience. Speaking as someone who once quit a job because I didn't like it and then had to deal with 18 months of un- and under-employment, I get a bit edgy when someone starts talking about quitting without some backup plan. Now, at the time, I was young and single and I did OK, but I really don't think that anyone with a family should drop work without plan B (and maybe even plans C, D and E) solidly in place should things not work out as wished.

Where are you getting that the OP is 40-something? I didn't pick up on that.

My bad, I was confusing the OP with one of the other posters.

 

[notdeadyet]

I don't know what the OP's full educational story is. My main advice to the OP was not to raid his retirement fund to pay for education. Secondary advice was not to quit his day job right away. I stand by those regardless of his GPA.

Ah, my bad. I missed the "right away" part. I would also not recommend to suddenly decide to become a doctor and turn your life upside down in order to do so.

I'd recommend testing the waters for ability, drive and aptitude. Then, if you're convinced it's what you have to do, jump at it. Treat it as you would any major career change (educate yourself, prepare well, work hard and don't burn bridges).

Now, at the time, I was young and single and I did OK, but I really don't think that anyone with a family should drop work without plan B (and maybe even plans C, D and E) solidly in place should things not work out as wished.

Agreed, plan B is a great idea. If not medicine, what is your next plan? Nursing? Public Health? Makes sense...

I think that my general advice is to make sure you know what you're doing and that you are able to do it. But once you're ready, go after it with all you can. Doing it half-a$$ed will only reduce your chances for success.

(disclosure: I'm an old married guy who left a great non-medical career and applied at 35)

 

[elderjack21]

You are best off taking the plunge, using one year to focus purely on your application and do the best you can, and flip the switch. The years you save doing this will be extra years spent as a physician making physician wages.

You have to be careful though, since the process is so lengthy if you time it wrong you take two years off. 1 to take your classes, 1 waiting to get in without that good job that you had...don't forget that funding your own insurance with a wife and kids is a huge cost...better to go into school with little to no debt and even better with some cash to move and get settled at your school before the lean years set in.

No doubt you have thought it all through.

As far as the IRAs go. For Roth, anything you put in to it, you can take out for whatever reason you want and for no penalties since you already paid taxes on it. Already talked to my IRA company about this one. The interest/returns on your ROTH IRA are a little different. If you have had the account for 5 years or more (or the interest...I can't remember which) you can take those out for educational purposes with no penalty as well. Many will advise against it though, because once you take it out, you may never be able to get t back in...you will have loans to repay and your income will put you in a bracket that doesn't permit you to invest in a ROTH IRA....

I don't have a whole lot in my IRA...as a matter of fact it seems to keep shrinking this year. My intention is to sit on it as long as I can since it doesn't count against me, but if there is an emergency then at least I have some piece of mind for myself and my family.

 

[elderjack21]

Ah, my bad. I missed the "right away" part. I would also not recommend to suddenly decide to become a doctor and turn your life upside down in order to do so.

I'd recommend testing the waters for ability, drive and aptitude. Then, if you're convinced it's what you have to do, jump at it. Treat it as you would any major career change (educate yourself, prepare well, work hard and don't burn bridges).

Agreed, plan B is a great idea. If not medicine, what is your next plan? Nursing? Public Health? Makes sense...

I think that my general advice is to make sure you know what you're doing and that you are able to do it. But once you're ready, go after it with all you can. Doing it half-a$$ed will only reduce your chances for success.

(disclosure: I'm an old married guy who left a great non-medical career and applied at 35)

PS I followed the first part of this thread to a T...it is sound advice. I did not really have a plan B...but I am sure I would have figured it out if I didn't get in. I am not too old yet...28, but will be when all is said in done, switched from a decent non-medical career, with pretty much no science background aside from what I finished over the last two years at night and on the weekends.

 

[notdeadyet]

You have to be careful though, since the process is so lengthy if you time it wrong you take two years off. 1 to take your classes, 1 waiting to get in without that good job that you had...

Oh, I don't think you can avoid that. You need a year to apply as a non-trad, so you'll need to get a job again during your applicatoin year. Even that is an ambitious timeline.

No doubt you have thought it all through.

Yes. I'm now finishing up my first year of medical school so it all worked out...

Glad someone has advice on what to do with the IRAs and whatnot. It's all greek to me.

 

[notdeadyet]

I am not too old yet...28, but will be when all is said in done, switched from a decent non-medical career, with pretty much no science background aside from what I finished over the last two years at night and on the weekends.

You'll find there are more folks like you out there than you think. Med schools like older folks...

 

[DrSmooth]

Wow, that sparked a discussion! Thanks for the feedback. It helps a lot in our planning. One of the advantages of pursuing this career at 33 is that I am painfully aware of my strengths and limitations. I am currently taking two classes part-time and will dive-in with everything I've got this summer. My current job doesn't pay great so if I need to go back to work in the glide year starbucks in the worst case scenario would suffice. Also, my wife is a public health nurse so she could always go back if needed. Thanks again.