Vacation

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Noyac

Noyac

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  1. Attending Physician
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How many weeks do you get?
Sorry residents but I'm not talking about you guys. Your time is coming.

Part timers please don't respond.
 
I am required to take 5 weeks per year but can take up to 8. Up to me. I'll probably take less until my debt is paid off and then 8 weeks off sounds amazing. We are performance based (blended unit), so the more you work the more you make.
 
6-8 weeks
 
During my partnership track, I only have 4 weeks 🙁
 
Depends on what I want. We take a minimal of 7 weeks.... we can take a lot more than that however.
I took 12 weeks this year. Prolly could've taken more, but I work in a eat what you kill environment.
You don't work, you don't get paid.
 
5 weeks.
 
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10 - 12 weeks. I wouldn't work anywhere where I got less than 8 weeks vacation. Life is too short.
 
It's eat what you kill for me, and I am hungry. Rarely take vacation, think I took 3 weeks last year.
 
6 weeks minimum. I am taking 7 this year with plans to take closer to 10 with a few big trips next year.
 
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Just been notified our vacation will be reduced from 8 weeks to 4 weeks. Been in practice for 8 years and in no way I'm prepared to go back to resident-like vacation. Rumors also going around that salary reduction will be next step. Located in Pittsburgh with ACT model. The local market is a mess with 2 dominant health systems. Maybe time to relocate.
 
ScaleneDoc said:
Just been notified our vacation will be reduced from 8 weeks to 4 weeks. Been in practice for 8 years and in no way I'm prepared to go back to resident-like vacation. Rumors also going around that salary reduction will be next step. Located in Pittsburgh with ACT model. The local market is a mess with 2 dominant health systems. Maybe time to relocate.
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Sorry to hear that ScaleneDoc. 50% reduction in Vaca? Why?
Yeah... Sounds like it's time to get out.
 
And it also depends on how the vacation is structured.

If you can take random 3-4 day weekends. Than 4 weeks may be enough.

But if you are forced into taking week long vacations than 6 weeks may be the bare minimal.

Also depends on working conditions. I have friends who take 10-11 weeks off but they work hard the other 41-42 weeks out of the year. They work 60-65 hours during those weeks as well.

So we need to take everything into context.
 
At certain times in my career I have had 6 weeks vacation. Other times I have had 13 weeks vacation. I find that 10 weeks is a happy medium. At this point in my career, I won't work with less than 10 weeks vacation and actually prefer 12 (which is what I'll have next year).
 
8 weeks taken any way you want. Can take more if you want but you have to buy them. Can take less and take pay for them or roll into the next year. Have to take at least 4. Blaz
 
sevoflurane said:
Sorry to hear that ScaleneDoc. 50% reduction in Vaca? Why?
Yeah... Sounds like it's time to get out.
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They did it because they believe that they could. Administration obviously believes that the anesthesiologists have few alternatives, or the hospital is in such desperate financial straits that they had no choice but to risk a bunch of people leaving.
 
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5 weeks in my academic gig, but there's a vague amount of meeting time, as well. We can carry over something like 8 weeks each year, so it builds up. I probably take between 3-4 per year, but a fair number of 3-4 day wknds, in addition. In the past year, the Mrs. and I have been to Japan, Switzerland, The Bahamas, as well as a few short trips here and there, so it ends up being enough.
 
dr doze said:
They did it because they believe that they could. Administration obviously believes that the anesthesiologists have few alternatives, or the hospital is in such desperate financial straits that they had no choice but to risk a bunch of people leaving.
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You're onto something here. With only really 2 systems to work for here, both of them collude to drive down compensation and working conditions. Oh, you don't like it?.. Well have fun leaving the state and don't let the door hit you in the way out. Don't know how they will save $ with reducing vac days. The job market here is about as gloomy now as it has ever been. Have many friends from residency around the country with 8+ weeks, which seems to be the norm.
 
ScaleneDoc said:
You're onto something here. With only really 2 systems to work for here, both of them collude to drive down compensation and working conditions. Oh, you don't like it?.. Well have fun leaving the state and don't let the door hit you in the way out. Don't know how they will save $ with reducing vac days. The job market here is about as gloomy now as it has ever been. Have many friends from residency around the country with 8+ weeks, which seems to be the norm.
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Sounds like it is no longer a job worth hustling for. What happens in a lot of situations like this is people lose motivation and just try to stay under the radar and just above the lowest common denominator. I saw it happen in the bad 90s. Productivity and efficiency take a hit.

They will save money by one or more of the following:
There will now be more anesthesiologist bodies some of whom can either drop in a room and thus save FTE CRNAs or do other tasks that administrators and surgeons love to think of, e.g., place central lines throughout the hospital, post op rounds, whatever..., or reduce the number of docs, attrition non renewal, fire and not replace, etc. Don't worry they will think of something😡
 
I'm in a common unit fee for service practice. No rules regarding vacation, as much or as little as you want, but no worky no money. Currently I only take 2-3 weeks, but I do sprinkle in some long 3-4 day weekends in addition. I live in America's Finest City though and only average about 40hrs/week so it's not like I really feel the need to take a bunch of time off. Plus two 2yr olds at home makes it a little difficult to travel right now. A few years from now once the kids are in school I'll probably start working heavier weeks but take more vacation time.
 
ScaleneDoc said:
You're onto something here. With only really 2 systems to work for here, both of them collude to drive down compensation and working conditions. Oh, you don't like it?.. Well have fun leaving the state and don't let the door hit you in the way out. Don't know how they will save $ with reducing vac days. The job market here is about as gloomy now as it has ever been. Have many friends from residency around the country with 8+ weeks, which seems to be the norm.
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This is where all the docs need to "collude" together. Administration is counting on the "divide and conquer" tactic.

Up north, knew of hospital employed W2 position. 9 of the 30 MDs turned in their resignation papers and another 5 threatened to walk. Having 50% of staff leave within a 60-90 day period scared the crap out of administration. That was enough for administration to call for emergency meeting and in the end, they got a more incentive base system in which most made 50K more.

The way things are going for anesthesiologists, if big corps take over contracts or they become W2 employees of hospital systems than they need to lobby that employed docs need collective bargaining rights as well.

Until that time, I think it's best to discuss with the other MDs and come to a common point. Administration is counting on doctors arguing amongst themselves and not coming to a common ground. Administration is counting at least a 70% retention rate. If that retention rate drops, surgeons don't like working with a whole new different crew. They will let administration hear about it rather quickly.
 
aneftp said:
This is where all the docs need to "collude" together. Administration is counting on the "divide and conquer" tactic.

Up north, knew of hospital employed W2 position. 9 of the 30 MDs turned in their resignation papers and another 5 threatened to walk. Having 50% of staff leave within a 60-90 day period scared the crap out of administration. That was enough for administration to call for emergency meeting and in the end, they got a more incentive base system in which most made 50K more.

The way things are going for anesthesiologists, if big corps take over contracts or they become W2 employees of hospital systems than they need to lobby that employed docs need collective bargaining rights as well.

Until that time, I think it's best to discuss with the other MDs and come to a common point. Administration is counting on doctors arguing amongst themselves and not coming to a common ground. Administration is counting at least a 70% retention rate. If that retention rate drops, surgeons don't like working with a whole new different crew. They will let administration hear about it rather quickly.
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Agree. The problem is every once in awhile administration will make a bad decision and let those docs resign in the name of not appearing weak or rewarding "bad behavior" and replace a substantial amount or all of the department, relying on locus for an extended period till they can hire permanent folks. You don't sit down at the negotiation table unless you are willing to go all in. You don't go all in unless you are prepared for the other guy to call your bet. Even if the other guy is playing a bad hand. Hospital administrations make multi million dollar mistakes all the time.
 
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dr doze said:
Agree. The problem is every once in awhile administration will make a bad decision and let those docs resign in the name of not appearing weak or rewarding "bad behavior" and replace a substantial amount or all of the department, relying on locus for an extended period till they can hire permanent folks. You don't sit down at the negotiation table unless you are willing to go all in. You don't go all in unless you are prepared for the other guy to call your bet. Even if the other guy is playing a bad hand. Hospital administrations make multi million dollar mistakes all the time.
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Yup. Seen it in many practices.

Firing a group to get a "bargain" with another group/AMC. Said group leaves. New group absolutely sucks. Surgeons feel the big drop in quality + some bad outcomes and lost reputation in the community.

Want to get the old group back? Sure. No problem, except that you are going to have to break the 5 year contract with the new AMC/crappy group = multimillion dollar event. Then you have a new contract to negotiate with the old group. Total cost = a big loss for everyone.

I've seen this play out a handful of times.
 
For the record: If I suddenly had my vacation cut back from 8 weeks to 4 weeks with no negotiation in between... I would be OUTTA there in 2 nanoseconds.
That just screams: IDGAF. Bad decision from the top down. 4 weeks from 8 weeks... really? Greedy. Best groups exist in an environment where administration and said group see eye to eye and work forward to make the best of any situation.
 
sevoflurane said:
For the record: If I suddenly had my vacation cut back from 8 weeks to 4 weeks with no negotiation in between... I would be OUTTA there in 2 nanoseconds.
That just screams: IDGAF. Bad decision from the top down. 4 weeks from 8 weeks... really? Greedy. Best groups exist in an environment where administration and said group see eye to eye and work forward to make the best of any situation.
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Most of us would do the math on our alternatives. At my present stage in life, I would start looking but expect that I would not be tempted in today's market. I would go part time now as opposed to in a few years when I planned to. As a recent grad with student loans, mortgage and baby. I would have eaten sh1t.
 
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I was under the impression that Allegheny General Hospital and its affilliates paid their attendings pretty well? UPMC was also a better paying academic institution. I guess things have changed since I was a med student 🙁
 
I would say that in this era if you get a lot of vacation (i.e. greater than 8 weeks) 3 things need to happen. A lower than expected salary, increased hours per week when you do work or a combo of both. Perhaps the grass is indeed greener but I would rather have 6-8 weeks of vacation with 40-45 hours per week than 16 weeks with 65-80 hr weeks.

I believe a better way to equalize this discussion is to base it on Hours per year FTE. My FTE is roughly 2300 hrs/year . The debate on how to distribute those hours is an entirely different discussion and is based mostly on personal preference
 
seinfeld said:
I would say that in this era if you get a lot of vacation (i.e. greater than 8 weeks) 3 things need to happen. A lower than expected salary, increased hours per week when you do work or a combo of both. Perhaps the grass is indeed greener but I would rather have 6-8 weeks of vacation with 40-45 hours per week than 16 weeks with 65-80 hr weeks.

I believe a better way to equalize this discussion is to base it on Hours per year FTE. My FTE is roughly 2300 hrs/year . The debate on how to distribute those hours is an entirely different discussion and is based mostly on personal preference
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It's more like you will work 50-55 hours a week with 6 weeks vacation for an AMC.

The AMCs that offer 8 weeks are have MDs working closer to the 60 hour range.
 
dr doze said:
Most of us would do the math on our alternatives. At my present stage in life, I would start looking but expect that I would not be tempted in today's market. I would go part time now as opposed to in a few years when I planned to. As a recent grad with student loans, mortgage and baby. I would have eaten sh1t.
Click to expand...

I recommend to all new grads just to rent for at least a year. I know some may have families and wives (or husbands) who finally are happy you are making "attending" money and want that dream house.

Don't do it. Resist. Renting isn't "throwing money away". Renting gives you flexibility.

Don't get locked into situation where you are stuck with a house and a mortgage and in a crappy job.
 
panetrain said:
I get 17 weeks off
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How many hours per week do u work in those 35 weeks?

Big city? Medium or small? Working spouse or non working spouse?

There are jobs where one can get 20 plus weeks off. But usually in smaller towns and the trade off is being on call almost every day or q2 call but they aren't super busy.

Just hard to imagine 17 weeks off in a big unless u take major income hit working "full time".
 
aneftp said:
How many hours per week do u work in those 35 weeks?

Big city? Medium or small? Working spouse or non working spouse?

There are jobs where one can get 20 plus weeks off. But usually in smaller towns and the trade off is being on call almost every day or q2 call but they aren't super busy.

Just hard to imagine 17 weeks off in a big unless u take major income hit working "full time".
Click to expand...


Medium size city, 2 million in metro. Non working spouse. Work about 45 hours per week. Call burden is very heavy during those 35 weeks, but call backs are super rare and weekends are super light.
 
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