Vet school GPA and requirements

Veterinary Science Graduate Programs from U. of I.
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The whole reason prerequisites exist is to build a foundation to prepare you to be able to handle/understand the next courses and leading up into veterinary school. Each course you take will build your knowledge base. You won't jump right in to a 400-level biochemistry course on day one of undergrad, that would be impossible and a recipe for disaster. You'll take biology and chemistry, then more inorganic chemistry, move on to organic chemistry, maybe a cell biology and microbiology class, and after several semesters move on to the 'tough' undergrad courses like biochemistry. But you'll (in theory) be prepared for them. You may have to work to do well and learn the material, but the courses serve a purpose...to prepare you as much as they can for vet school. But the point of so many of the people trying to help you is that most of the material can be learned if you have a desire to do so and work hard. However, that desire won't be there just because someone told you 'hey you should be a vet'...you build that desire by spending time with a veterinarian and seeing exactly what they do. Being a vet is actually quite a bit different from how most 'regular people' imagine it to be, but you'll only see that by spending time in a clinic.

So for now, while you are still so young, do well in high school and on your ACT, enjoy being a kid, and use those good high school grades to get in to the right undergrad for you. Look for undergrads that are affordable or give you scholarships to minimize your potential student debt. And while you're focusing on being a high schooler, look into finding a vet to spend time with. Knowing what benchmarks you need to meet in the future is great and I applaud you for doing your research so early, but until you get into undergrad there isn't really anything you can do that the vet schools will take into account other than shadowing, volunteering, or working with a vet. That's why people have pushed that idea so hard. Once you graduate and start college, if you still think you might want to be a vet, keep your eyes on those GPA, volunteer hour, etc goals, but don't make it your singular focus and burn out.
 
DVMDream said:
I mean you should probably put in more effort than browsing over notes while Netflix is on, but they aren't impossible. You will have to put some effort into them. They are very heavily science and math based, so if that isn't "your strong point" you might have to work a better harder than others. Again, though, dedication and hard work and you can do them, the question here is... "how hard are you willing to work?" And do you even want to be a vet?
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I didn't read on prerequisites, why do you think I was asking. Common sense! It's also called gathering info instead of going to one article, seeing an answer then calling it good, you go to multiple sources like what I was doing asking people, gathering that info. You could learn more by doing that ya know.
 
AnimaLover said:
Actually I read and they want volunteer hours and GPA and all that. At least some schools do. Also I know what level is and I know my boundaries so I know what is above my head before I try it.
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So, this is coming from your current perspective as a 15 year old going through high school. It's a totally valid perspective...for now. You will not be the same person when you graduate high school and enter college. It's certainly not the same perspective you'll have in ten years; I'm 25 now and nowhere the same person I was a decade ago.

You think your boundaries now are the same one you'll have going through college which simply isn't the case.
 
AnimaLover said:
I didn't read on prerequisites, why do you think I was asking. Common sense! It's also called gathering info instead of going to one article, seeing an answer then calling it good, you go to multiple sources like what I was doing asking people, gathering that info. You could learn more by doing that ya know.
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Umm, huh? I was answering your question to how hard are the pre-requisites... I stated more difficult than a class in which you can browse over notes while watching Netflix... you will have to put some effort into them. How do you come up with the above response to that??
 
JaynaAli said:
The whole reason prerequisites exist is to build a foundation to prepare you to be able to handle/understand the next courses and leading up into veterinary school. Each course you take will build your knowledge base. You won't jump right in to a 400-level biochemistry course on day one of undergrad, that would be impossible and a recipe for disaster. You'll take biology and chemistry, then more inorganic chemistry, move on to organic chemistry, maybe a cell biology and microbiology class, and after several semesters move on to the 'tough' undergrad courses like biochemistry. But you'll (in theory) be prepared for them. You may have to work to do well and learn the material, but the courses serve a purpose...to prepare you as much as they can for vet school. But the point of so many of the people trying to help you is that most of the material can be learned if you have a desire to do so and work hard. However, that desire won't be there just because someone told you 'hey you should be a vet'...you build that desire by spending time with a veterinarian and seeing exactly what they do. Being a vet is actually quite a bit different from how most 'regular people' imagine it to be, but you'll only see that by spending time in a clinic.

So for now, while you are still so young, do well in high school and on your ACT, enjoy being a kid, and use those good high school grades to get in to the right undergrad for you. Look for undergrads that are affordable or give you scholarships to minimize your potential student debt. And while you're focusing on being a high schooler, look into finding a vet to spend time with. Knowing what benchmarks you need to meet in the future is great and I applaud you for doing your research so early, but until you get into undergrad there isn't really anything you can do that the vet schools will take into account other than shadowing, volunteering, or working with a vet. That's why people have pushed that idea so hard. Once you graduate and start college, if you still think you might want to be a vet, keep your eyes on those GPA, volunteer hour, etc goals, but don't make it your singular focus and burn out.
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This... this is beautiful. I really dig this. Nice job on this. Thank you very much so. This is very insightful. This what I want from people and there are no rude comments *cough* DVMD *cough* and they are wondering why I'm being so defensive. Anywho thank you for this again. This is what I want.
 
AnimaLover said:
This... this is beautiful. I really dig this. Nice job on this. Thank you very much so. This is very insightful. This what I want from people and there are no rude comments *cough* DVMD *cough* and they are wondering why I'm being so defensive. Anywho thank you for this again. This is what I want.
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I had zero rude comments. You wanted the best advice possible and I gave it to you on the first response. You just did NOT like that advice. Not sorry about giving you the appropriate advice.

Then I UPLIFTED you by telling you repeatedly that if you really work hard, you can accomplish and complete the pre-reqs but you have to work for it. YOU are the one doubting your ability. Not me. Heck I encouraged you.

And this, this is why I prefer to never give advice to pre-vets anymore. Bunch of whiny people that want the advice they want to hear handed to them on a silver platter with some cookies.
 
AnimaLover said:
I didn't read on prerequisites, why do you think I was asking. Common sense! It's also called gathering info instead of going to one article, seeing an answer then calling it good, you go to multiple sources like what I was doing asking people, gathering that info. You could learn more by doing that ya know.
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The thing is, this is easily googleable. The AAVMC website has a prerequisite chart that lists all of the schools and the Vet School Bound website has it in map form, the AAVMC site tells you what test they require (spoiler: it's the gre unless you apply to one of the few that don't require any exam), the AAVMC has admitted class stats for every school for the past 4 years (they haven't updated to put 2021 stats up yet), the Vet School Bound site talks about experiences. It's all easy to find.
Edit 4 typoz
 
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AnimaLover said:
This... this is beautiful. I really dig this. Nice job on this. Thank you very much so. This is very insightful. This what I want from people and there are no rude comments *cough* DVMD *cough* and they are wondering why I'm being so defensive. Anywho thank you for this again. This is what I want.
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I really don’t feel like I said anything that different than the other people, including dvmd, but I’m glad you found it helpful. Please realize that, even if you took something differently as intended, we veterinarians who have continued to hang around here (including WTF and DVMD) reply to potential prevet students do it because we really do want to help. We may be a bit jaded by the profession in some ways, but we do want to help people make informed decisions and head down the right paths. Assume positive intent around here...it’ll get you far. Good luck in whatever you decide to do, but like dvmd said, don’t sell yourself short before you even know what you’re capable of. College is lots different than high school.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
DVMDream said:
I mean you should probably put in more effort than browsing over notes while Netflix is on,
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DVMDream said:
Umm, huh? I was answering your question to how hard are the pre-requisites... I stated more difficult than a class in which you can browse over notes while watching Netflix... you will have to put some effort into them. How do you come up with the above response to that??
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I apologize. "I mean you should probably put in more effort than browsing over notes while Netflix is on,"
I thought when you said this that I need to put more effort into reading notes (Which is probably true). But I thought you were saying that I need to look at notes better instead of watching Netflix. Kinda hard to explain but you get what I'm saying?
 
AnimaLover said:
I apologize. "I mean you should probably put in more effort than browsing over notes while Netflix is on,"
I thought when you said this that I need to put more effort into reading notes (Which is probably true). But I thought you were saying that I need to look at notes better instead of watching Netflix. Kinda hard to explain but you get what I'm saying?
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She's saying in the prereqs. You will probably need to put in more effort than just browsing over your notes while Netflix is on and you're watching a show while "studying." She said this because it's true.
 
I'm guessing there has just been some miscommunication here. I think you've already gotten some good advice but my $0.02 -

1. You're 15, in high school, and already trying to figure this stuff out. That's great! You're educating yourself and trying to figure out the best career path for you. Best thing you can do at this point in your life is to do well in high school (for the scholarships for college!), volunteer or shadow at a vet clinic, and HAVE FUN.

2. Look into cheap colleges. The less money you spend on undergrad, the better off you'll be in the long run.

3. HAVE FUN! Like, safe smart fun, but you only get to be a teenager once. Do extracurriculars, volunteer, be a well rounded person.

4. If you can take AP classes or even lower level community college classes while in high school, go for it. The more college credits you get for free in high school the less $$ you will have to spend on undergrad.

5. Take things one step at a time and talk to your high school counselor or adviser about college planning. You don't need to go to the best college or one with a vet school, go for a good reputation, good solid classes, and as inexpensive as you can.

6. Take all the advice here with a grain of salt. We all want each other to succeed, seriously, swear to Bob. But we worry about each other, burnout, finances, etc and want to make sure everyone coming into this field is fully aware of all the negatives as well as the positives before they spend time and money they can't get back only to find out this isn't for them. It's not personal, other than in the sense that we're all trying to look out for each other (including you!).

7. Good luck! I'm sure you'll find your path, whatever that may be. The internet is amazing for finding good resources on this information 🙂
 
AnimaLover said:
I apologize. "I mean you should probably put in more effort than browsing over notes while Netflix is on,"
I thought when you said this that I need to put more effort into reading notes (Which is probably true). But I thought you were saying that I need to look at notes better instead of watching Netflix. Kinda hard to explain but you get what I'm saying?
Click to expand...

SkiOtter said:
She's saying in the prereqs. You will probably need to put in more effort than just browsing over your notes while Netflix is on and you're watching a show while "studying". She said this because it's true.
Click to expand...

This. You asked "how hard are the pre-reqs"

I said... "You will probably need to put in more effort than browsing over notes while Netflix is on". (Not saying you do this, but hell, I sure did). You will need to put effort into them, how much will depend on you and how I guess how "good" (for lack of a better word) you are at sciency/mathy things.
 
kcoughli said:
swear to Bob.
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Who is Bob and why are we swearing at him

giphy.gif
 
JaynaAli said:
I really don’t feel like I said anything that different than the other people, including dvmd, but I’m glad you found it helpful. Please realize that, even if you took something differently as intended, we veterinarians who have continued to hang around here (including WTF and DVMD) reply to potential prevet students do it because we really do want to help. We may be a bit jaded by the profession in some ways, but we do want to help people make informed decisions and head down the right paths. Assume positive intent around here...it’ll get you far. Good luck in whatever you decide to do, but like dvmd said, don’t sell yourself short before you even know what you’re capable of. College is lots different than high school.
Click to expand...

I think you explained it a lot better and sorta more detailed.
 
@AnimaLover , one thing to mention before this thread potentially ends up like all the other ones from pre-vets who are new to this forum...

Everything everyone has said here is coming from good intentions, and I know it can be hard to read tone, but no one is attacking you or being rude here. Try to read everything with positive tone/intent. This is an awesome community and you can really learn so much from everyone. 🙂

Back on topic, some vet school pre-reqs are harder than other (physics ugh ugh ugh WHY??), but a lot of them build on each other, and there are a lot of ways you can get help (tutors, youtube, friends, etc) along the way. Here's the list of CSU's pre-reqs, if you are interested: http://csu-cvmbs.colostate.edu/Documents/dvm-preparatory-coursework-guide.pdf
 
DVMDream said:
This. You asked "how hard are the pre-reqs"

I said... "You will probably need to put in more effort than browsing over notes while Netflix is on". (Not saying you do this, but hell, I sure did). You will need to put effort into them, how much will depend on you and how I guess how "good" (for lack of a better word) you are at sciency/mathy things.
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I understand. At first I thought you meant it like personally and not trying to compare it to prerequisites. I'm sorry. Thanks for the replies btw and everyone else too.
 
AnimaLover said:
I understand. At first I thought you meant it like personally and not trying to compare it to prerequisites. I'm sorry. Thanks for the replies btw and everyone else too.
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Nope, not personal. Don't even know you. And totally wouldn't judge if you played Netflix while browsing over some boring ass history notes (because who actually likes history??) 🙂
 
kcoughli said:
I'm guessing there has just been some miscommunication here. I think you've already gotten some good advice but my $0.02 -

1. You're 15, in high school, and already trying to figure this stuff out. That's great! You're educating yourself and trying to figure out the best career path for you. Best thing you can do at this point in your life is to do well in high school (for the scholarships for college!), volunteer or shadow at a vet clinic, and HAVE FUN.

2. Look into cheap colleges. The less money you spend on undergrad, the better off you'll be in the long run.

3. HAVE FUN! Like, safe smart fun, but you only get to be a teenager once. Do extracurriculars, volunteer, be a well rounded person.

4. If you can take AP classes or even lower level community college classes while in high school, go for it. The more college credits you get for free in high school the less $$ you will have to spend on undergrad.

5. Take things one step at a time and talk to your high school counselor or adviser about college planning. You don't need to go to the best college or one with a vet school, go for a good reputation, good solid classes, and as inexpensive as you can.

6. Take all the advice here with a grain of salt. We all want each other to succeed, seriously, swear to Bob. But we worry about each other, burnout, finances, etc and want to make sure everyone coming into this field is fully aware of all the negatives as well as the positives before they spend time and money they can't get back only to find out this isn't for them. It's not personal, other than in the sense that we're all trying to look out for each other (including you!).

7. Good luck! I'm sure you'll find your path, whatever that may be. The internet is amazing for finding good resources on this information 🙂
Click to expand...

Sorry buddy, I actually didn't see this. Thank you.
 
DVMDream said:
Nope, not personal. Don't even know you. And totally wouldn't judge if you played Netflix while browsing over some boring ass history notes (because who actually likes history??) 🙂
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"because who actually likes history??" In this generation it's "because who actually browses over notes" :laugh:
 
Definitely with DVMD on the history sucks. Dates? Names of humans? My brain doesn't do those things.

Which is hilarious since I'm a tour guide. Funny story, until my boss heard it and corrected me I was telling my humans that Captain James Cook landed in our area in 1782 (He died in 1779). On a mic and with a large group too for most of the summer. Whoops!
 
DVMDream said:
I had zero rude comments. You wanted the best advice possible and I gave it to you on the first response. You just did NOT like that advice. Not sorry about giving you the appropriate advice.

Then I UPLIFTED you by telling you repeatedly that if you really work hard, you can accomplish and complete the pre-reqs but you have to work for it. YOU are the one doubting your ability. Not me. Heck I encouraged you.

And this, this is why I prefer to never give advice to pre-vets anymore. Bunch of whiny people that want the advice they want to hear handed to them on a silver platter with some cookies.
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I heard there might be some cookies here?! :heckyeah:

If we all used whether or not prereqs/vet school were "above our level" to decide if we should actually go to vet school, we would have far fewer veterinary students than we currently do. Most veterinary students did very well in undergrad (like a 3.5-3.8 undergrad GPA) and many/all find themselves struggling to keep up during vet school. A small percentage will fail out, too.

You can't go through life avoiding things because you think it will be too hard. Now, that's not to say that you should be unrealistic about your abilities...but don't run the marathon without training first. Graduate high school, go about your undergrad as cheaply as possible, and work hard. If you do well in your pre-reqs, you'll be okay in vet school as long as you realize the work is harder and requires even more time.

Also, high school academic ability =/= undergrad ability =/= vet school ability. The first two can probably be decent indicators, though.
 
AnimaLover said:
Forgetting to add some stuff. So a good choice for me then is probably UW, University of Wyoming. Not expensive and high acceptance rate at a 97.7% last time I checked and it's a decent college. Also are veterinarians treated that bad?? If so, why??
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In my experience some people treat veterinarians very well and some treat us very poorly. It's quite polar.

It's a complex question with a highly multifactorial answer, but I think a lot of it has to do with culture. More and more our culture seems to lean towards "feelings" and less towards trusting expert education and evaluation and facts and silly things like that. So trusting google, or the breeder who has no medical background, or the neighbor, or the casual acquaintance at the dog park ... a lot of people view those as all more authoritative than a true expert.

I mean, it's pretty telling that when I was a kid, "doing your research" actually meant doing honest-to-god reading from authoritative sources. Now, "doing your research" means googling until you find web pages written by unverified sources that say what you have already decided you want to hear. Yanno? It's different.

So when those folks present, they frequently are suspicious/doubtful/dubious of our advice. And for some of them that translates to outright nastiness.

Also, we live in a culture of entitlement. Everyone seems to think they deserve everything, and it is REALLY noticeable in the service industry where "the customer is always right" (worst thing the service industry ever did to itself, by the way, is to take that line seriously). So people demand absolutely unreasonable things, and just seem to expect that you'll do it.

Nothing wears you out more than demanding owners looking for unreasonable things, ignoring your expert opinion in favor of some dumb breeder, who then get aggressive/nasty/etc.

On the flip side, some people still respect expert advice, and it is a pleasure to work with those people. Even if they can't afford you, if they at least take you seriously you can find <some> way to work with them.

Anyway. It's a huge question. But that's my 30,000-foot view of it.
 
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AnimaLover said:
Holy crap guys. I'm not stupid enough to go into Vet school without volunteering or any education. I don't know why you guys think I'm so stupid but just because I'm 15 doesn't mean ****. Look at that bolded part up there, I'm guessing you guys missed those 2 sentences. I am going to volunteer. I just wanted to see some of the requirements first to see if I could manage them. And plan ahead.
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Nobody said, or thinks, that you are stupid. You asked for advice, people are giving it.

You said elsewhere you tend to be defensive and you recognize you need to work on that.

This is a <GREAT> place to start.

People are giving you honest, good advice. Don't get defensive over it. Recognize that they don't know the details and intricacies of your situation, and they are just giving you the best advice they can with the information they have to work with. You should not be getting defensive and snapping at them - that's not reasonable on your part. The advice I have seen from them has been great. Soak it all in and let it help you make decisions. That's the best plan.
 
SkiOtter said:
They certainly are easy compared to the classes you'd take in vet school, but they are in no means a cake walk themselves
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Ha. I dunno. I think the *hardest* classes I had were undergrad classes, actually. Sure, vet school was harder because of overall credit load and whatnot, but in terms of class difficulty? Nah.
 
AnimaLover said:
This... this is beautiful. I really dig this. Nice job on this. Thank you very much so. This is very insightful. This what I want from people and there are no rude comments *cough* DVMD *cough* and they are wondering why I'm being so defensive. Anywho thank you for this again. This is what I want.
Click to expand...

You owe DVMD an apology for this. You may not LIKE her advice, but it has been genuine, on track, and useful (even if you disagree with that).

She has not been as rude to you as you have been to her.

Your defensiveness *will* cause you a great deal of difficulty if you do not address it.
 
DVMDream said:
And this, this is why I prefer to never give advice to pre-vets anymore. Bunch of whiny people that want the advice they want to hear handed to them on a silver platter with some cookies.
Click to expand...

Yeah, agreed. Lately, I've toyed with checking out of SDN for good. I feel like pre-vets fit the entitlement culture more and more and advice genuinely given is defensively received. I mean, yes, I'm a pretty blunt and often grumpy guy, but even if/when I tone it down you still get slapped back in the face ... all for taking valuable time to try and help someone. Just not worth it.

Only reason I've stuck around thus far is my enjoyment interacting with people who have been around a while.

Dunno. Maybe I'm getting close to just saying buhbye and leaving this place to the newer crop.
 
LetItSnow said:
I officially dub @kcoughli "buddy" from here on out.

Come back and play WW, kcoughli, so I can vote to lynch buddy....
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(Okay but this makes me want you to listen to Santa baby by Michael buble Bc he says Santa buddy half the time and it's Lowkey hilarious so thank you @finnickthedog)
 
LetItSnow said:
Yeah, agreed. Lately, I've toyed with checking out of SDN for good. I feel like pre-vets fit the entitlement culture more and more and advice genuinely given is defensively received. I mean, yes, I'm a pretty blunt and often grumpy guy, but even if/when I tone it down you still get slapped back in the face ... all for taking valuable time to try and help someone. Just not worth it.

Only reason I've stuck around thus far is my enjoyment interacting with people who have been around a while.

Dunno. Maybe I'm getting close to just saying buhbye and leaving this place to the newer crop.
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giphy.gif
 
I do have to agree to some extent (I'm not speaking specifically to the OP - I mean generally). It's even more apparent with actual students IRL. They act like they are god's gift to academia and are decidedly unappreciative towards how hard the faculty are working for them. I guess its easier to bitch about test scores coming back late than to think "Hm, maybe they're late because the profs are epically swamped in the millions of other things they have to do and cry into their wine at night just like I do - you know, those profs who went into even more debt and spent more time getting specialties and research degrees just so they could teach little old me."

I used to think it was just me getting older and grumpier and such. However, every single faculty member I have talked to says that it's not just me - it's been getting progressively worse over time. I generally find that the older nontrads who have real-world experience are much more humble (and better students IMO).
 
AnimaLover said:
Holy crap guys. I'm not stupid enough to go into Vet school without volunteering or any education. I don't know why you guys think I'm so stupid but just because I'm 15 doesn't mean ****. Look at that bolded part up there, I'm guessing you guys missed those 2 sentences. I am going to volunteer. I just wanted to see some of the requirements first to see if I could manage them. And plan ahead.
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Thanks for the replies. For everybody whining about my defensiveness, no, not really, I'm just kidding but people talking about it. The only time I got offended was this time. And I wasn't really offended, just more frustrated because you guys couldn't understand something so simple or at least in my eyes. And I got offended I guess you could say by what I thought DVMD was saying but I just misread the tone and the message.

Anyways apart from all that, just out of curiosity, what is type of animal that you guys deal with most? Dogs, cats, pigs, horses, etc.
 
AnimaLover said:
Thanks for the replies. For everybody whining about my defensiveness, no, not really, I'm just kidding but people talking about it. The only time I got offended was this time. And I wasn't really offended, just more frustrated because you guys couldn't understand something so simple or at least in my eyes.
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WAT.jpg
 
AnimaLover said:
I actually never watch Netflix. I have an account and everything but don't watch it. I really don't watch TV at all.
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That is probably a good thing. Going out and living life is actually the best thing you can do for yourself. No matter what profession you end up choosing, having a variety of life experience and learning how to adapt to the world around you and trying new things constantly is what creates a well rounded individual capable of anything.
 
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