Virginia Commonwealth University (VCU) VS Rush Medical College (RMC)

[darkpauladin]

I am currently trying to decide between VCU and Rush and find myself flip-flopping every couple of days. What do you guys think?

Long-term Career Goals:
Competitive Specialty (preferably Ophtho/Otolyn/Rads/EM)
West Coast Residency (prefer CA)
Leave the door open for academic medicine/research (not sure yet)

Rush
Pros:
+ Match List

I perceive their match list as better than VCU because they tend to send much more people to California and/or strong Midwest programs in Chicago that I could see myself ending up at. After analyzing VCU vs Rush match lists for the past four years, I see that VCU tends to send significantly more people to primary care residencies (notably, FM and OBGYN).​

+ Superior Clinical Training

Compared to VCU clinical rotation sites, Rush's hospital is higher rated in numerous specialties.
Cook County has such a diverse patient population and will be AMAZING if I end up going EM​

+ School Administration/Class Environment

Seems miles ahead of VCU in terms of outreach and school support. I was accepted at VCU for several months but have had no contact from the school at all (no acceptance packet/letter or 2nd look). Rush has set up much more outreach (Email Buddy programs/Phone calls from current M1s/FB group/2nd look)​

+ City

Downtown Chicago >>> Downtown Richmond​

Cons:
- Curriculum

Second year of the new flipped classroom curriculum
Admins on interview day seemed overly defensive about their new curriculum
This year's class has told me they have gotten better over the last few months​

- Students Rankings by MSPE Letter (unsure if unranked preclinical)

Research into MSPE Letters showed that Rush divides class into quartiles and the top quartile is further sliced into 5 sections (top 5/10/15/20/25%)​

- Weather

Chicago winters are brutal​

VCU
Pros:
+ True Unranked Pass/Fail
+ 1.5 year traditional lecture with some PBL preclinical

Clerkships begin in April vs May for Rush​

+ Step 1 Prep (3 months and 1-on-1)

Interview emphasized that VCU is strong on this (curiously has lower step 1 averages than Rush though)
Board Review setup by Dr. Linda Costanzo - author of major physio text used for board study
Tests centered around Step 1 prepping​

+ Lower COL

However has higher COA on MSAR (?)​

+ Attached undergrad campus
+ Focus on ultrasound screening (?)
+ Weather

Coming from CA, much more temperate than Chicago​

Cons:
- Research Thesis Requirement

I have a background in research for ~3-4years with 4-5 coauthor pubs right now, but I still don't like being it being a requirement​

- Administration/Student Outreach (virtually none)
- Malignant clinical rotation sites? (Have heard rumors of malignant IM rotations, but can't confirm)
- City

Richmond is okay, but it's not Chicago​

Nonfactors:
Research Ranking (VCU and Rush are both 3.3 rating by Residency PDs)
Cost (OOS VCU and Rush are both ~53k/yr for tuition+fees, neither has offered significant grants/scholarship)
Facilities (both are excellent with Rush having a slight edge)
Impression at Interview (both seemed outstanding during the interview and can see myself going to either one)

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[deev04]

I'm less clear at which way you're leaning, but I have a couple thoughts on your pros/cons:

1. Step scores have little to do with the actual school/curriculum and a lot to do with the individual students. It makes sense that on average the top tier schools tend to have better step scores because these schools are filled with very high-achieving students who are extremely strong standardized test-takers. Beyond that, it doesn't make too much sense to try and read into a schools step score average, because scores are very student dependent. The rankings of schools by step schools reads pretty random with better ranked schools falling above/alongside/below lowered ranked schools.

If you want to go into ent/opth you're going to need a sky-high step score no matter the school. A particular curriculum or school isn't going to get you that score, and your score is not dependent on what your classmates score. Paying any attention to step score averages seems silly. The only potentially relevant things might be when you take step (i.e. before/after rotations, length of dedicated).

2. The ranking of students and pass/fail vs non-pass/fail curriculum seems like an important consideration. Many people think the absence/presence of rankings significantly impacts their quality of life during medical school and the culture of the school. Particularly is you are thinking of going into something competitive where you will want to be top of your class, but also have good step scores, good research, ECs, etc., this might be an important thing to consider.

 

[darkpauladin]

I'm less clear at which way you're leaning, but I have a couple thoughts on your pros/cons:

1. Step scores have little to do with the actual school/curriculum and a lot to do with the individual students. It makes sense that on average the top tier schools tend to have better step scores because these schools are filled with very high-achieving students who are extremely strong standardized test-takers. Beyond that, it doesn't make too much sense to try and read into a schools step score average, because scores are very student dependent. The rankings of schools by step schools reads pretty random with better ranked schools falling above/alongside/below lowered ranked schools.

If you want to go into ent/opth you're going to need a sky-high step score no matter the school. A particular curriculum or school isn't going to get you that score, and your score is not dependent on what your classmates score. Paying any attention to step score averages seems silly. The only potentially relevant things might be when you take step (i.e. before/after rotations, length of dedicated).

2. The ranking of students and pass/fail vs non-pass/fail curriculum seems like an important consideration. Many people think the absence/presence of rankings significantly impacts their quality of life during medical school and the culture of the school. Particularly is you are thinking of going into something competitive where you will want to be top of your class, but also have good step scores, good research, ECs, etc., this might be an important thing to consider.

That's true. Truthfully, I was running out of things to compare the programs by. I understand that MCAT/Step 1/Board scores are largely based on independent effort and less so on the program. I believe that both schools are P/F although I am unsure if Rush is ranked preclinical or not -- I will have to verify this at Second Look. Do you have any thoughts on which program you would personally choose and why? Thanks!

 

[Kingsmen2018]

I'm really surprised with the poll. Rush's new curriculum smells like ****.

 

[darkpauladin]

I'm really surprised with the poll. Rush's new curriculum smells like ****.

I mean at the end of the day, I think I’ll care more about where I end up matching than the 19 months of preclinical curriculum. Besides, almost everyone UFAPs their way through preclin/step 1. So is it really a significant factor?

 

[Kingsmen2018]

I mean at the end of the day, I think I’ll care more about where I end up matching than the 19 months of preclinical curriculum. Besides, almost everyone UFAPs their way through preclin/step 1. So is it really a significant factor?

Im not sure the match list ur looking at is of students who went through their new cirriculum

 

[CyrusHabs7695]

Rush

 

[darkpauladin]

Rush

In my heart, I feel like I would love attending Rush. However, when asking about Rush's new flipped classroom, everyone and @Kingsmen2018 essentially screamed at me to go somewhere else. ( Rush's New Flipped Classroom Curriculum )

 

[Birdman15]

Current VCU student here.

I interviewed/was accepted at both schools last year, ultimately choosing VCU for family reasons. There's a lot of things on your pros & cons list that A) don't really matter, like, at all and B) aren't 100% accurate. I think you're over-analyzing your choices. Both schools are in a similar tier and, if you work hard, will not hold you back from getting a residency in any specialty in any region in the country.

Might I suggest some priorities that matter?

- cost
- good support system (e.g., family/friends nearby, social scene, etc.)
- unranked pass/fail pre-clinical curriculum
- perhaps most importantly, don't underestimate your own gut feeling

Both are great schools. Congrats on the multiple acceptances, it's always nice to have options!

 

[GShow]

In my heart, I feel like I would love attending Rush. However, when asking about Rush's new flipped classroom, everyone and @Kingsmen2018 essentially screamed at me to go somewhere else. ( Rush's New Flipped Classroom Curriculum )

I am also deciding between Rush and another Medical School in the same "tier". I have multiple friends who are M1's at Rush right now and they have said that it was tough in the beginning, but the faculty is very open to feedback and things have gotten a lot better. My heart is at Rush so I will likely be matriculating there. I read the thread that you shared when you got negative feedback about the- flipped classroom curriculum, but only one student from Rush commented (and it was a pretty positive comment). Everyone else on the thread was pretty much speculating what the curriculum would be like, but none of them go there so their opinions are not as meaningful IMO. Like you said, everyone seems to use outside resources for STEP prep anyway, and (again, IMO) the clinical experiences we will have at Rush will be much more diverse than almost anywhere else in the country.

 

[icedude2010]

I echo what everyone else has said about the curriculum at Rush. I am deciding between Rush and another school which is ranked substantially higher, and I think that the PBL will end up being a boon to STEP scores. It is a STEP focused curriculum with an emphasis on the clinical style questions. It def had some road bumps, but the administration seems dedicated to figuring out how to make it work best for the students.