VMCAS Questions and Rants c/o 2029

[Qopiexs]

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Hi! there is an overwhelming amount of replies on this forum, so can anyone reply with how they found out if they made a mistake on their transcript submission thing? I never heard anything back from VMCAS but skimming through this thread made me second-guess myself.

They would send you an email/notification that your application couldn’t be verified and what mistakes you made. If it was verified then you’re fine.

 

[pp9]

there are too many qualified applicants for everyone who wants to be a veterinarian to become one. And I don't think we're going back to the days of a 2/3 chance of getting a spot if you're an average applicant or better (approximately the chances when I was applying). An applicant can do everything right and still not be picked for a spot.

Absolutely. There are probably very few people that are 'unqualified' to be applying to vet school each cycle despite the opinions one might have after seeing a handful of stats posted online. No one is entitled to a seat regardless of their 4.0 GPA, thousands of vet experience hours, published papers, any combination of the above, etc. It gets really tough when the majority of applicants are probably perfectly fine - basically schools have to pick from a pool of 1000+ applicants that are all qualified and all nearly the same on paper.

Standing out is hard, but it can be done with an excellent PS, excellent letters, 1-2 unique experiences, or being exceptional in the eyes of whatever school you are applying to. Some schools really care about certain things more than others, whether that be academics, experience hours, research, whatever. I don't usually venture over to pre-med, but the OP in this thread gives really good advice after having multiple all-rejection cycles. Anyone feeling stuck should give it a read. Med school and vet school admissions are not identical, but I think their advice applies to both fields.

ETA:

I feel your pain truly. This is my 3rd cycle and I've never even received an interview. I'm on 9/10 rejections across all 3 cycles, and it sucks. I understand these recurring feelings of embarrassment, rejection, and envy every cycle. But please do not diminish the hard work of those who've recieved interviews and acceptances. There's already a lot of imposter syndrome in this field, and I would hate to see a fellow DVM hopeful perpetuating it.

ETA: If I completely misread this post, I'm sorry. I resonated with these feelings and it lead me to very bitter comparisons. I remind myself that we're not all just numbers, and simply comparing yourself to other applicants in this way is unfair to both.

Also wanted to echo this as someone who was the recipient of many 'How did you get in and I didn't?!' comments (for vet school, a certain ultra-competitive internship I got as a pre-vet, and ultimately my breaking into zoo med). Maybe I am reading some of these comments (from multiple posters) and taking it a bit personally as a result, but entitlement and jealousy don't look cute on anyone.

Anyone harboring these sentiments should take a step back and realize that once you get an acceptance, someone is going to say the exact same things about you and diminish your years of hard work, tears, and countless hours of your life to luck, random chance, 'Well I must have slipped through the cracks and you didn't,' 'you must know someone on the committee,' etc. Just don't go there, don't fall into that trap. It is tempting to temporarily soothe yourself by blaming something 'out of your control' when it comes to situations like these, but it won't fix anything for you and will push you away from striving to improve yourself/your application every year.

 

[battie]

Med school and vet school admissions are not identical, but I think their advice applies to both fields.

Double this. @Goro has several threads over there that would help applicants to vet school, both from the perspective of being less than stellar and re-applicants.

 

[DogtorAsh]

Absolutely. There are probably very few people that are 'unqualified' to be applying to vet school each cycle despite the opinions one might have after seeing a handful of stats posted online. No one is entitled to a seat regardless of their 4.0 GPA, thousands of vet experience hours, published papers, any combination of the above, etc. It gets really tough when the majority of applicants are probably perfectly fine - basically schools have to pick from a pool of 1000+ applicants that are all qualified and all nearly the same on paper.

Standing out is hard, but it can be done with an excellent PS, excellent letters, 1-2 unique experiences, or being exceptional in the eyes of whatever school you are applying to. Some schools really care about certain things more than others, whether that be academics, experience hours, research, whatever. I don't usually venture over to pre-med, but the OP in this thread gives really good advice after having multiple all-rejection cycles. Anyone feeling stuck should give it a read. Med school and vet school admissions are not identical, but I think their advice applies to both fields.

Just going to tack on and add that something I realized incredibly late (and by that I mean my 4th application cycle) was that the way I was structuring and attacking my essays were all wrong. A trap I fell into and I believe a lot of pre-vet students do is that they write about wanting to do things that they have little to no experience in or there's no clear goal/destination. I'm not saying you need to have your whole career outlined and ready to fall into it, but talking about ex: wanting to be a exotics vet and not having any exotics experience at all just doesn't land with a lot of committees (it's hard for them to understand why you want to do that if you have no practical experience in it). It's fine to want to explore these options more within vet school (and I definitely am) but I didn't mention these things in my essays like I had in the past. I talked a lot more specifically about goals I was hoping to achieve in vet school that I actually had experiences and stories to back up my interests.

The only other large observation I have made which everyone can take with a grain of salt (and maybe doesn't apply to people) is that I also realized I had to do a lot of soul searching from cycles 1-3 before my 4th time. Whether I realized it or not I had a lot of internalized resentment in myself for not getting in, for messing something up, for not being good enough. And I truly believe whether intentionally or not that somehow read across in my essays. The thread pp9 shared from the pre-med forum is very accurate on writing essays, on believing in yourself, but also not forgetting a certain level of humility and humbleness. My best advice is if you're wandering down that dark path of self-loathing or even potentially blaming other people for getting in over you then I would take a break. Taking the break I did in between cycles 3 and 4 put a lot of things in perspective and I came back more ready than ever to apply and with a much healthier mindset and was also able to shake the weird undergrad competitiveness that was ingrained in us very early in school.

 

[_rae_]

Taking the break I did in between cycles 3 and 4 put a lot of things in perspective and I came back more ready than ever to apply and with a much healthier mindset and was also able to shake the weird undergrad competitiveness that was ingrained in us very early in school.

I cannot echo this enough. The first time I applied was the c/o 2024 which was right when I graduated college. I was naive to a lot of the struggles within vet med and it showed in my essays. Honestly, reading them now is kind of embarrassing. I never intended to wait as long as I did to reapply, the plan was work for a summer and apply for c/o 2025. I even reopened my VMCAS after I got denied and started an application. But one of the doctors I work with was kind enough to give me the honest advice to wait. I think I grew more in those years than I did in all of undergrad, and when that cycle opened in 2023 I was ready. Taking three years and entering school at 25 put a lot of my life on hold, and that is something I'm still grappling with, but it was absolutely the best decision I could have made for my future success. I cannot imagine if I was graduating this year and didn't gain some of the knowledge and life experiences I did.

One year of waiting won't make too much of a difference in the grand scheme of your life, but it might mean everything to your application, depending on how you spend it.

 

[justachillgirl]

I can't help but agree with many of these recent posts. We are all capable of becoming a veterinarian, and will do so in our time. Trust in your work and effort to be here reading all these forums!

I cannot echo this enough. The first time I applied was the c/o 2024 which was right when I graduated college. I was naive to a lot of the struggles within vet med and it showed in my essays. Honestly, reading them now is kind of embarrassing. I never intended to wait as long as I did to reapply, the plan was work for a summer and apply for c/o 2025. I even reopened my VMCAS after I got denied and started an application. But one of the doctors I work with was kind enough to give me the honest advice to wait. I think I grew more in those years than I did in all of undergrad, and when that cycle opened in 2023 I was ready. Taking three years and entering school at 25 put a lot of my life on hold, and that is something I'm still grappling with, but it was absolutely the best decision I could have made for my future success. I cannot imagine if I was graduating this year and didn't gain some of the knowledge and life experiences I did.

One year of waiting won't make too much of a difference in the grand scheme of your life, but it might mean everything to your application, depending on how you spend it.

 

[toastiesimba]

hi everyone! i was just wondering, what schools are known for phone calls for acceptances vs just updating the portal/sending an email? im so anxious about like what if i dont get a phone call for a school on their admission decision day? i feel like id be crying before i even check the portal because i would assume i needed a phone call for an acceptance! thank you so much for your help!

 

[channie]

hi everyone! i was just wondering, what schools are known for phone calls for acceptances vs just updating the portal/sending an email? im so anxious about like what if i dont get a phone call for a school on their admission decision day? i feel like id be crying before i even check the portal because i would assume i needed a phone call for an acceptance! thank you so much for your help!

Arizona will call acceptances on 2/19

 

[_rae_]

Minnesota calls with acceptances as well! At least they did last year.

 

[indysadventures]

hi everyone! i was just wondering, what schools are known for phone calls for acceptances vs just updating the portal/sending an email? im so anxious about like what if i dont get a phone call for a school on their admission decision day? i feel like id be crying before i even check the portal because i would assume i needed a phone call for an acceptance! thank you so much for your help!

From what I remember from stalking SDN, Minnesota, Cornell, and Washington all call. Minnesota’s is after an interview, though. I believe initial interview invites occur via email only.

 

[supershorty]

Minnesota’s is after an interview, though. I believe initial interview invites occur via email only.

Correct.

 

[SkiOtter]

Unless they’ve changed it, Illinois is an email (previously was snail mail) for acceptances and waitlist decisions. In 2018 I got a phone call when I was accepted in April off the waitlist.

 

[catsandsnakes]

Schools generally don't send any interview invites/acceptances/rejections over weekends, correct? Just curious if I need to be checking portals over Saturday and Sunday since it seems like a lot of schools are sending things out haha

 

[Alicat9152]

hi everyone! i was just wondering, what schools are known for phone calls for acceptances vs just updating the portal/sending an email? im so anxious about like what if i dont get a phone call for a school on their admission decision day? i feel like id be crying before i even check the portal because i would assume i needed a phone call for an acceptance! thank you so much for your help!

Mizzou will email interview invites, acceptances, waitlists, rejections. They will initially attempt to call you if you are waitlisted and pulled but also will send an email, so you receive the message! I indeed broke down crying in the middle of my school's parking lot when I got the call pulling me off the waitlist for the cycle I applied, don't worry Kathy and Doug are used to it 😊

 

[Tech_Penguin]

chance of getting a spot if you're an average applicant or better (approximately the chances when I was applying). An applicant can do everything right and still not be picked for a spot.

Totally agreed. Several schools themselves are saying they’ve had to turn away many qualified applicants because of how few seats there are. It’s basically like getting rejected from Harvard’s med school. Keep in mind there’s also several things out of your control, like institutional needs. Maybe the school already filled enough seats with small animal trackers from cities and are now prioritizing mixed/large animal trackers (bc there’s now a big need for those vets)

 

[barkology]

This on top of this, no one is offering file reviews. I continue to post my stats on this site and have had several people ask if there’s some additional red-flag preventing my acceptance, well I wouldn’t know the answer to this because no school is offering ANY sort of review. At this point I’m happy my masters allows me to look elsewhere for a career, because this entire process is a heaping pile of **** and no school has presented a solution. It’s infuriating to see people with GPA’s below mine as well as having less veterinary hours get interviews while I’m sitting here for the 3rd time with nothing.

I don't know if this is helpful or not, but VMCVM does file reviews and it took me more than one cycle to get in so I personally went through it. I'm not sure if you applied there, but wanted to leave the comment in case it was of any help.

I was told by the admissions staff at my school that the group of applicants this year was an EXTREMELY competitive pool to the point where they were even declining those with rather high GPAs. It is not all about stats! If you (or anyone) has any questions, don't hesitate to reach out.
-Current VMCVM 1st year

 

[vampyrica]

I have a question for those who are more familiar with accredidation information. I'm originally from Greece and my parents are not supportive of me attending vet school in the US simply because of the amount of debt I would put myself in (my IS is Penn so regardless I'm cooked). I would be taking out loans to fund my education and they like to scare me by saying I will never be able to leave the US, I will never be able to buy a house, or car or start a family and I can expect to pay off this debt until I'm 50/60 years old.

UNIC (University of Nicosia) is a non-accredited school in Cyprus. They really want me to atleast apply there and consider it since tuition would be 120,000 euros total for all five years. It is not listed as a school were students can participate in the ECFVG program, however earlier this year, it was announced that the school received membership to the AAVMC

American Association of Veterinary Medical Colleges welcomes 12 schools for membership - AAVMC

MEDIA CONTACT: Susan Leigh, Director for Marketing and Communications Phone: 202/371-9195 x171 Email: [email protected] WASHINGTON, D.C., January 31, 2024 — The American Association of Veterinary Medical Colleges (AAVMC) has recently welcomed 12 new institutions for membership. The Universidad...

www.aavmc.org

The program is also listed as a DVM program. Does membership in the AAVMC mean that they will be able to have students sit for the ECFVG or NAVLE? And also, what does that mean for students who currently attend? Does accreditation start with the next class or would it also apply to students currently enrolled in the program? (IE: Let's say they receive ECFVG permission in 2027, would students who started in 2023, 2024, 2025 and 2026 be able to go through the ECFVG or would it only start with those entering in 2027?)

I am just curious how it works so I can have a stronger arguement when talking about this with my parents 😛

 

[JaynaAli]

I have a question for those who are more familiar with accredidation information.

@MixedAnimals77

Also tagging @battie because I think she’s looked into COE stuff a lot as well.



I think being AAVMC members means they’re probably pursuing accreditation but it’s a long process. If they are accredited, you’d just need to take NAVLE and not ECFVG. But if they aren’t, your only path to practice in the US would be the ECFVG route and my advice would be to really be sure you and your parents understand what is needed for ECFVG, if they’re not US accredited now and pending what the answers to your questions are. The ECFVG path not as simple as “just taking one extra test”…it’s expensive and difficult and many people give up along the way.

Also, you mention needing loans to pay for school and this is more hypothetical than anything, but are you able to get loans through Greece? I looked on the federal student aid website where there’s a list of international schools where you can get US federal loans and there is only one university in Greece listed and it’s not this one and I didn’t see any in Cyprus. So unless there’s some avenue for you through your Greek heritage, I’m guessing you’d have to take private loans, and as much as loan repayment stuff is up in the air right now, I imagine something income based will survive or be developed, but those programs only apply to US federal loans, not private. And 125,000 tuition (presumably with living expenses added) at private loan rates on standard repayment terms isn’t nothing. But also…if your parents aren’t paying, do what you think is best for you.

 

[vampyrica]

@MixedAnimals77

Also tagging @battie because I think she’s looked into COE stuff a lot as well.



I think being AAVMC members means they’re probably pursuing accreditation but it’s a long process. If they are accredited, you’d just need to take NAVLE and not ECFVG. But if they aren’t, your only path to practice in the US would be the ECFVG route and my advice would be to really be sure you and your parents understand what is needed for ECFVG, if they’re not US accredited now and pending what the answers to your questions are. The ECFVG path not as simple as “just taking one extra test”…it’s expensive and difficult and many people give up along the way.

Also, you mention needing loans to pay for school and this is more hypothetical than anything, but are you able to get loans through Greece? I looked on the federal student aid website where there’s a list of international schools where you can get US federal loans and there is only one university in Greece listed and it’s not this one and I didn’t see any in Cyprus. So unless there’s some avenue for you through your Greek heritage, I’m guessing you’d have to take private loans, and as much as loan repayment stuff is up in the air right now, I imagine something income based will survive or be developed, but those programs only apply to US federal loans, not private. And 125,000 tuition (presumably with living expenses added) at private loan rates on standard repayment terms isn’t nothing. But also…if your parents aren’t paying, do what you think is best for you.

Thanks for your response! I’ve read into what a long and tumultuous process the ECFVG is. I would love to return to Europe one day and settle down there but that’s not where I’m at right now.

I have don’t have a strong interest in attending a non-accredited veterinary school, and I’ve explained to my parents that if I were to leave and come back (if able to take the ECFVG) that I would be further halting my career by having to do additional testing, certifications and training. If anything, the debt would come out to be about the same USD. I grew up in Athens, my childhood home is in Athens, so I would still have to take out loans to afford rent, food, transportation etc in Cyprus.

As for loans, that’s an excellent question! I hadn’t thought of public vs private loans overseas and that’s definitely something to bring up to my parents when defending my decision to pursue my DVM in the US.

 

[Tech_Penguin]

There’s several faculty at Purdue (medical oncology) and Virginia (radiation oncology) who went to Greece for vet school if you want to reach out to them

 

[battie]

But also…if your parents aren’t paying, do what you think is best for you.

I honestly can't emphasize this enough. This is a problem that seems to recur every generation but at least seems to be getting better. Their opinions on the education stop there as opinions. If they are not financially invested themselves, then you need to keep a firm handle that this is your choice.

Likewise, a US degree will be easily excepted almost anywhere. It's more versatile overall than a Greek degree as far as use elsewhere.

I'll have to look into where Greece stands as far as accreditation and transfer to the US post-grad. But AAVMC status doesn't mean much in regards to use of degree after graduation. AVMA accreditation is really what matters.

As far as alternatives, there are several vet schools that can be affordable over Penn, even as an OOS student. I'm not sure if I've seen a WAMC from you specifically (I can't keep everyone straight....). But definitely something to consider.

 

[vampyrica]

I honestly can't emphasize this enough. This is a problem that seems to recur every generation but at least seems to be getting better. Their opinions on the education stop there as opinions. If they are not financially invested themselves, then you need to keep a firm handle that this is your choice.

Likewise, a US degree will be easily excepted almost anywhere. It's more versatile overall than a Greek degree as far as use elsewhere.

I'll have to look into where Greece stands as far as accreditation and transfer to the US post-grad. But AAVMC status doesn't mean much in regards to use of degree after graduation. AVMA accreditation is really what matters.

As far as alternatives, there are several vet schools that can be affordable over Penn, even as an OOS student. I'm not sure if I've seen a WAMC from you specifically (I can't keep everyone straight....). But definitely something to consider.

Thank you for your input battie! I appreciate it.

Ah okay, I see! That makes more sense then. And to answer your WAMC question, I had posted one about 2-3 weeks ago maybe? My odds are…weird. but that’s for a different thread lol.

 

[MixedAnimals77]

I would say if you ever plan on practicing in the US, Canada, aus, UK, NZ, Ireland then going to an avma school will likely be easiest. An avma accredited degree is fairly recognized and transferrable in those countries though salaries are often much less. If your plan is to go back over and live in Europe permanently then I would consider moving back to Europe and going to one of those schools. I've briefly looked into moving to Europe to be a vet in a few countries and it's very country specific the pathway to be able to practice there. Monitarliy it may be beneficial to move to the country you want and work on getting admitted as a national so the debt to income ratio is much more manageable. Overall though from having met many international vets many avma schools offer a base of advanced knowledge that is not always offered through certain European schools-ie if you plan to specialize staying in the states for a bit may be beneficial. Another consideration is if you'd be able to go to a European avma accredited school such as urtech in the Netherlands and have cheaper tuition since you're Greek-im not sure if any european reciprocityagreements for tuition exist.

However yes aavmc grouping doesn't really mean anything in terms of accreditation and just being able to take navle. Going to any nonaccredited school if you were to practice in the states you'd have to go through ecfrg.

Hope all of that is clear as mud!

 

[supershorty]

I'm not sure what the deal is with the emoji thing, but I'm on the case 🔍

Update: if you are having the issue of posts going all [emoji] haywire, please uninstall and reinstall the app, followed by going to settings and clearing your cache. This appears to resolve the issue.

 

[i<3animals]

would you settle for the only vet school you get into? or would you try & make your application stronger for the next cycle?

 

[vampyrica]

would you settle for the only vet school you get into? or would you try & make your application stronger for the next cycle?

I think the word “settle” isnt super appropriate here, because if you are applying to multiple schools, I would assume you would be okay going to any of those schools. If you weren’t and were dead-set on one school only…why bother wasting the time and money?

 

[battie]

would you settle for the only vet school you get into? or would you try & make your application stronger for the next cycle?

The opposite take: do you want to be a vet student or a veterinarian? Aiming for any school almost nearly guarantees you the latter; aiming for *a specific* school might give you the former.

A DVM/VMD/BsVM are all analogous in this country and no one cares where you graduate from.

Also this from our annual list of above found on the first page:

10. Only apply to schools where you would 1) be willing/able to travel to for interviews and 2) would actually go if accepted. Actually sit down and think about what you would do if you were accepted to every school. As a (common) example, don't apply to the island schools just because of their reputation for being "easier" to get into; actually consider what it would mean to move to an island nation and those pros and cons.
- Every year, a portion of students gain an acceptance and a subsequent level of stress of actually realizing they will have to move to said place. If the coasts, Midwest, cold, hot, rural, big city, whatever difference from where you live that may actually be a challenge for you would be, don't apply to those schools. Don't waste your money/time.

 

[Tech_Penguin]

[QUOTE="iQUOTE]

I only applied to schools that I like and plan on attending and hopefully everyone else did too. Off the top of my head, the only reason to limit yourself to certain schools is finances or if a schools doesn’t have certain programs or specialties

 

[futureveterinarian1624]

does anyone know if tufts, cornell, colorado state, Illinois, or midwestern want us to send fall transcripts? i cant find any information regarding that for these schools

 

[catsandsnakes]

does anyone know if tufts, cornell, colorado state, Illinois, or midwestern want us to send fall transcripts? i cant find any information regarding that for these schools

Illinois does by February 1st, so I just planned on waiting until the send out interview invites. I don't think Cornell would since decisions should come out in the next couple of weeks. Tufts I also could not find that information.

 

[phenomenology]

I didn't apply to UF, but happened upon this podcast episode with 3 members of UF's admissions committee and learned a few interesting aspects of what adcoms look out for/value in applications! Food for thought for anyone applying next cycle ☺️

 

[pp9]

would you settle for the only vet school you get into? or would you try & make your application stronger for the next cycle?

I think the word “settle” isnt super appropriate here, because if you are applying to multiple schools, I would assume you would be okay going to any of those schools. If you weren’t and were dead-set on one school only…why bother wasting the time and money?

+1. Also, very few applicants 'settle' these days because you are more unlikely than ever to have the luxury of choosing from multiple acceptances, as OP has come to find out. You can't 'settle' if it's your only choice. You either want to be a vet (so take the acceptance happily) or you are willing to gamble your entire future and try again at a school that doesn't feel like 'settling' to you. No such thing as safety nets, sure bets, backup schools, etc in vet med - arguably, these have never been a thing.

IMO, the odds of acceptance are far too low to risk trying again. The only exception I'd make is trying again for IS tuition, but then I'd also wonder why you applied elsewhere to begin with if IS tuition was a deciding factor the whole time.

 

[turtle36]

I think a huge issue that I’m seeing here are highly qualified applicants being denied without any input. I understand that a full file review is not realistic for every applicant, but maybe more explicitly clear reasons for why denials were made would be super helpful for future applicants. LOR’s specifically are something most of us do not even get to see at any point, so if this is an issue for an applicant I feel they have a right to know. Otherwise not really sure what my application fee is covering at all other than being a roadblock for me to apply to other schools.

 

[toastiesimba]

hi everyone! i have a question for current students. although im really excited to meet and befriend other veterinary students, do you find it difficult to meet people from other grad programs at the universities you attend? in my undergrad, i was part of a lot of clubs and had a great time building new friendships with people who shared my interests in various majors, but im worried that in grad school i wont have that opportunity anymore. i feel like the campus-wide organizations are more catered towards undergrad students. i have gotten into midwestern so far, and have some interviews coming up, and am still waiting on some schools, but if any midwestern students especially can give some input that would be amazing! thank you so much

 

[JaynaAli]

I can’t speak for Midwestern specifically, but in my experience, one’s social circle while in vet school usually revolves around the vet school. Especially so if you are new to the area and don’t have preexisting friends outside of the school. I had a few classmates who were in other clubs or on intramural sports teams, and people make time for the gym and religious meetings, so if that’s a priority for you, you can probably make it happen. But there’s only so many hours in a day and I think the majority of vet students tend hang out with other vet students and that’s about it. Vet school is demanding and takes a lot of one’s time, and other vet students are on a similar schedule as you and understand the stresses you’re undergoing. If something is a priority for you (whether that is attending social events outside of the school, a gym schedule, dog sports or horses, religious meetings, gaming, reading, whatever your priorities are) you can make time and make it happen, but it’s definitely a different world from undergrad.

 

[toastiesimba]

I can’t speak for Midwestern specifically, but in my experience, one’s social circle while in vet school usually revolves around the vet school. I had a few classmates who were in other clubs or on intramural sports teams, and people make time for the gym and religious meetings, so if that’s a priority for you, you can probably make it happen. But I think the majority of vet students tend hang out with other vet students and that’s about it. Vet school is demanding and takes a lot of one’s time. If something is a priority for you (whether that is attending social events outside of the school, a gym schedule, dog sports or horses, religious meetings, gaming, reading, whatever your priorities are) you can make time and make it happen, but it’s definitely a different world from undergrad.

were these clubs like campus wide organizations that mainly consisted of undergrad students, or did the university have grad school clubs they were part of? it really is a priority for me to meet people from other programs and befriend them because when my circle is only full of people in my major/program, i feel like i can never escape school and get burnt out. I also just like to hear about people's day that doesn't sound exactly like mine lol! im just anxious going in because i dont know how to navigate this as a grad student.

 

[Tech_Penguin]

There were people in my intramural sports team who were in law, vet, and MPH programs. Those types of clubs are mainly undergrads yet those grad students all enjoyed their experiences. Hope that helps!

 

[toastiesimba]

There were people in my intramural sports team who were in law, vet, and MPH programs. Those types of clubs are mainly undergrads yet those grad students all enjoyed their experiences. Hope that helps!

thank youuuuu im looking into the school i got into rn to see what kind of organizations they have to offer! 🙂

 

[katiemcat]

hi everyone! i have a question for current students. although im really excited to meet and befriend other veterinary students, do you find it difficult to meet people from other grad programs at the universities you attend? in my undergrad, i was part of a lot of clubs and had a great time building new friendships with people who shared my interests in various majors, but im worried that in grad school i wont have that opportunity anymore. i feel like the campus-wide organizations are more catered towards undergrad students. i have gotten into midwestern so far, and have some interviews coming up, and am still waiting on some schools, but if any midwestern students especially can give some input that would be amazing! thank you so much

At UF I don’t think it’s hard to meet new people outside of the program at all. UF sponsors events such as the annual grad student bash that encourages students from different programs to intermingle. I also hang out at different local places with regulars a lot and I’ve made a lot of friends outside of the university (which it is honestly so nice to talk about something other than school sometimes.)

 

[toastiesimba]

At UF I don’t think it’s hard to meet new people outside of the program at all. UF sponsors events such as the annual grad student bash that encourages students from different programs to intermingle. I also hang out at different local places with regulars a lot and I’ve made a lot of friends outside of the university (which it is honestly so nice to talk about something other than school sometimes.)

i didnt get into UF but i fr need you to teach me your ways cuz that sounds amazing

 

[battie]

Otherwise not really sure what my application fee is covering

Administrative costs. Really not any deeper than that. If the average admissions employee makes 50k/yr, that comes out roughly to 25/hr for a 40hr/week schedule. You have 5 people who work in academic student affairs offices, that's 250k/yr in admin costs just in labor alone. And that's assuming any of the clinicians who are also reviewing the applications are doing so on a volunteer basis (which the vast majority are).

That doesn't factor in office supplies, benefits packages for the employees, the dean's salary (which is a mix of admin, clinics, and research working way more than 40hr/wk), etc.

The cost of applying is a shift in perception. Normally when you're spending $100+ on a product or service, you do so because it's something you need/want, it's of a specific quality you expect, and (in theory) is from a specific company you chose from a group of companies that provide the same service.

That doesn't apply to higher ed in any way, especially graduate or professional degrees. There's no true capitalist forces at work to drive down costs while maintaining quality. You are not paying for an actual product or service. Applying to professional programs is way more analogous to buying a lottery ticket, thinking about it. You are paying for a chance.

And because of that financial dynamic, the schools have zero incentive to give details from multiple perspectives:

1) Lawsuits. Straight up. Due to the subjective aspects of applications, schools give general advice because of the risk of lawsuits from declined applicants.

2) Money and time (which is just more money). These programs are already underfunded. Not arguably. Definitely. And spending time to break down where an applicant went wrong is thousands to tens of thousands of dollars in labor depending on the number of applications. 2000 declined applicants at 5 minutes per applicant to give a break down of their low points is an addition 166.7 hours of labor, at 4200 in extra costs. Even though schools take in maybe 200-300k in application fees, weve already established that the salaries of the employees are barely covered by the fees.

3) Broken system in higher education. The bloated admin costs of higher education results in trickle down issues like this. And I would be willing to bet my OOS student debt we are going to have a reckoning in the next 20 years on higher education. A lot of schools and degree programs are closing now, and it's only going to get worse. I don't have a 529 set up for my toddler because I'm reasonably sure that education will be completely different in 20 years and he very well may not go to college.

There's a good YouTube video from several years ago that breaks down this unfortunate circumstance. I'll see if I can find it.

Keep in mind that the vet school admin offices are just as trapped as the students are. The deans have way less control than people think they do. Is a vicious cycle.

 

[katiemcat]

i didnt get into UF but i fr need you to teach me your ways cuz that sounds amazing

Haha my DMs are always open if you need tips 🙂

 

[turtle36]

Administrative costs. Really not any deeper than that. If the average admissions employee makes 50k/yr, that comes out roughly to 25/hr for a 40hr/week schedule. You have 5 people who work in academic student affairs offices, that's 250k/yr in admin costs just in labor alone. And that's assuming any of the clinicians who are also reviewing the applications are doing so on a volunteer basis (which the vast majority are).

That doesn't factor in office supplies, benefits packages for the employees, the dean's salary (which is a mix of admin, clinics, and research working way more than 40hr/wk), etc.

The cost of applying is a shift in perception. Normally when you're spending $100+ on a product or service, you do so because it's something you need/want, it's of a specific quality you expect, and (in theory) is from a specific company you chose from a group of companies that provide the same service.

That doesn't apply to higher ed in any way, especially graduate or professional degrees. There's no true capitalist forces at work to drive down costs while maintaining quality. You are not paying for an actual product or service. Applying to professional programs is way more analogous to buying a lottery ticket, thinking about it. You are paying for a chance.

And because of that financial dynamic, the schools have zero incentive to give details from multiple perspectives:

1) Lawsuits. Straight up. Due to the subjective aspects of applications, schools give general advice because of the risk of lawsuits from declined applicants.

2) Money and time (which is just more money). These programs are already underfunded. Not arguably. Definitely. And spending time to break down where an applicant went wrong is thousands to tens of thousands of dollars in labor depending on the number of applications. 2000 declined applicants at 5 minutes per applicant to give a break down of their low points is an addition 166.7 hours of labor, at 4200 in extra costs. Even though schools take in maybe 200-300k in application fees, weve already established that the salaries of the employees are barely covered by the fees.

3) Broken system in higher education. The bloated admin costs of higher education results in trickle down issues like this. And I would be willing to bet my OOS student debt we are going to have a reckoning in the next 20 years on higher education. A lot of schools and degree programs are closing now, and it's only going to get worse. I don't have a 529 set up for my toddler because I'm reasonably sure that education will be completely different in 20 years and he very well may not go to college.

There's a good YouTube video from several years ago that breaks down this unfortunate circumstance. I'll see if I can find it.

Keep in mind that the vet school admin offices are just as trapped as the students are. The deans have way less control than people think they do. Is a vicious cycle.

Thank you for the information!!!

 

[battie]

Thank you for the information!!!

And I don't want anyone to think that I'm dismissing how screwy this all is. It sucks. I most likely would not be accepted if I was applying now. Hell. I was almost not accepted when I was applying. It's a bad system and does suck for everyone involved.

 

[turtle36]

And I don't want anyone to think that I'm dismissing how screwy this all is. It sucks. I most likely would not be accepted if I was applying now. Hell. I was almost not accepted when I was applying. It's a bad system and does suck for everyone involved.

Tbh a lot of people do that on here so it would be nothing new, some of the veterinarians on here feel a little too comfortable being nasty and it doesn’t really feel like the most supportive environment. These rant threads exist so people can vent their anger, yet I’ve noticed a lot of users respond back to try and explain why their anger isn’t valid. I think some people forget the definition of venting. I appreciate you being respectful.

 

[vampyrica]

i'm getting so antsy! the bunk of my schools will be giving updates this month and i'm nervous!! CSU, Cornell and Penn (IS), argueably all the hardest ones on my list but hey, you can't know if you don't try!!

edit: i say "this month" as if january is already here...

 

[KK5820]

i'm getting so antsy! the bunk of my schools will be giving updates this month and i'm nervous!! CSU, Cornell and Penn (IS), argueably all the hardest ones on my list but hey, you can't know if you don't try!!

edit: i say "this month" as if january is already here...

Same!! CSU, WSU, and Davis !🤞🤞🤞

 

[battie]

Tbh a lot of people do that on here so it would be nothing new, some of the veterinarians on here feel a little too comfortable being nasty and it doesn’t really feel like the most supportive environment. These rant threads exist so people can vent their anger, yet I’ve noticed a lot of users respond back to try and explain why their anger isn’t valid. I think some people forget the definition of venting. I appreciate you being respectful.

Not for nothing, I'm one of the vets who has no problem contradicting people, regardless of thread. I wouldn't be surprised if we've had negative interactions; chances are honestly high. I don't see my responses personally as nasty, though sometimes harsh.

Likewise, I also have zero issue putting some sort of disclaimer that my advise/thoughts come specifically from objective perspectives and not meant to be an attack on the individual, with stats and such being my main point of argument. The fact I don't take subjective feelings into account when discussing things has definitely been a point of contention before with people in my personal life. Something I try to be aware of.

 

[turtle36]

Not for nothing, I'm one of the vets who has no problem contradicting people, regardless of thread. I wouldn't be surprised if we've had negative interactions; chances are honestly high. I don't see my responses personally as nasty, though sometimes harsh.

Likewise, I also have zero issue putting some sort of disclaimer that my advise/thoughts come specifically from objective perspectives and not meant to be an attack on the individual, with stats and such being my main point of argument. The fact I don't take subjective feelings into account when discussing things has definitely been a point of contention before with people in my personal life. Something I try to be aware of.

It is what is honestly. I’m not referring to our interactions or any of my personal interactions on here, but have read some sideways responses. I think people are always more comfortable being harsh when they’re anonymous.

At the end of the day this field is tough and we’re all just doing our best. I know my personal mental health is shot right now thanks to this cycle and working/school full time in a tumultuous household. I can’t imagine what some of these other students are feelings. I think some people really need to extend some grace.

 

[Tech_Penguin]

This discussion makes me wonder how some schools review everyone’s application in their entirety and offer file reviews while other schools review less than a quarter of applicants (despite both schools receiving the same number of applications more or less)