VSAS 2019

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Getting nervous and thinking about applying to a few more programs... Is it a bad look to email the coordinator first to see if they're full? Don't want to waste time/money if I'm going to get that auto-reject email within 48 hours..
 
judb16 said:
Getting nervous and thinking about applying to a few more programs... Is it a bad look to email the coordinator first to see if they're full? Don't want to waste time/money if I'm going to get that auto-reject email within 48 hours..
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How many programs and months did you apply to?
 
abcjmz said:
How many programs and months did you apply to?
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I already have one away set up outside of VSAS so I went a little risky. Through VSAS I've only applied to 2 places for all available months, and I was at a bit of disadvantage because I took step after third year, and didn't get my scores back until a few weeks ago and thus applied late-ish. But at Maricopa all 4 months are full and I'm on the "waitlist", which I'm not hopeful about. At Tucson I applied for 2 months and haven't heard anything and from what I can tell, no one on SDN has heard anything from them either. The only problem is I'm at medical school in the east, looking for a rotation in the west. Not interested in California. Won't be applying for residency. So I'm considering adding Utah, Oregon, Washington, maybe UNLV or UNM.. Supposedly Utah is full, but would like to double check and/or ask other programs if they're full too.

Worst case scenario I get nothing. I have another away in the east lined up and ready to go. So I'm not worried about getting enough SLOES, but would like to get something on that side of the country.
 
judb16 said:
At Tucson I applied for 2 months and haven't heard anything and from what I can tell, no one on SDN has heard anything from them either.
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U of A told me they are full for July -September. I don’t know about other dates
 
The Knife & Gun Club said:
Yea that’s not true. I called UArizona today. They aren’t sending decisions until May 1.
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I received an email couple weeks ago stating they can not accommodate me for the dates I applied to and to apply to the EM critical care elective if I’m interested. Not really sure this whole process has been confusing for me.
 
User262326 said:
I received an email couple weeks ago stating they can not accommodate me for the dates I applied to and to apply to the EM critical care elective if I’m interested. Not really sure this whole process has been confusing for me.
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I had a friend accepted to the EM/CC elective there and he was told they would write him a SLOE, if that helps at all.
 
judb16 said:
I already have one away set up outside of VSAS so I went a little risky. Through VSAS I've only applied to 2 places for all available months, and I was at a bit of disadvantage because I took step after third year, and didn't get my scores back until a few weeks ago and thus applied late-ish. But at Maricopa all 4 months are full and I'm on the "waitlist", which I'm not hopeful about. At Tucson I applied for 2 months and haven't heard anything and from what I can tell, no one on SDN has heard anything from them either. The only problem is I'm at medical school in the east, looking for a rotation in the west. Not interested in California. Won't be applying for residency. So I'm considering adding Utah, Oregon, Washington, maybe UNLV or UNM.. Supposedly Utah is full, but would like to double check and/or ask other programs if they're full too.

Worst case scenario I get nothing. I have another away in the east lined up and ready to go. So I'm not worried about getting enough SLOES, but would like to get something on that side of the country.
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🙄🙄🙄 talk to me when you've got over 20 applications "in progress" with nothing but a rejection in hand.

How do you guys decide when to reach out to programs to ask for an update?
 
Anyone else panicking? I only have one before Sept. 15. And that rotation ends at sept 13th LOL.
 
EmergDO said:
I had a friend accepted to the EM/CC elective there and he was told they would write him a SLOE, if that helps at all.
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This is how UofA does their sub-is. The have very few true EM slots and those are nearly always taken up by their own students. The EM-CC is mostly EM and will garner you a SLOE.
 
User262326 said:
U of A told me they are full for July -September. I don’t know about other dates
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The Knife & Gun Club said:
Yea that’s not true. I called UArizona today. They aren’t sending decisions until May 1.
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8741empls said:
This is how UofA does their sub-is. The have very few true EM slots and those are nearly always taken up by their own students. The EM-CC is mostly EM and will garner you a SLOE.
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This just about sums up my entire VSAS experience. No one knows what the hell is going on haha. Either way, thanks for the info.
 
judb16 said:
This just about sums up my entire VSAS experience. No one knows what the hell is going on haha. Either way, thanks for the info.
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Lol likely what happened is that U of A selected a few "back-ups" for the few true EM slots they have available and then rejected everyone else, offering them a spot in the EM/CC as an alternative.

The EM/CC rotation produces a SLOE and guarantees two interviews, so it's not a bad deal. 😛
 
Vivalarevolution said:
Lol likely what happened is that U of A selected a few "back-ups" for the few true EM slots they have available and then rejected everyone else, offering them a spot in the EM/CC as an alternative.

The EM/CC rotation produces a SLOE and guarantees two interviews, so it's not a bad deal. 😛
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Yeah.. I’m sure this is likely what is going on. Which honestly isn’t a bad system for them or for us. It just seems odd for someone in my position who hasn’t heard anything. They’ve clearly already decided some things. If I’m not even considered as a “back up” for the EM/CC spot, they should just say something. But I guess that’s the rules of the game we’re playing. IMHO The really cool part is we get to pay for all of this haha. I dream of a time when the hoops we have to jump through are fewer and less expensive.
 
judb16 said:
Yeah.. I’m sure this is likely what is going on. Which honestly isn’t a bad system for them or for us. It just seems odd for someone in my position who hasn’t heard anything. They’ve clearly already decided some things. If I’m not even considered as a “back up” for the EM/CC spot, they should just say something. But I guess that’s the rules of the game we’re playing. IMHO The really cool part is we get to pay for all of this haha. I dream of a time when the hoops we have to jump through are fewer and less expensive.
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Oh dang, if you haven't heard anything you're probably still in the running for a true EM spot then! Hang in there.

(I got rejected and offered a EM/CC spot right away hahahahaha)
 
Anyone apply for El Paso this year?

I'm doing their VSAS now and they require us to pay for their $50 background check up front before submitting...which seems..aggressive..
 
The Knife & Gun Club said:
Anyone apply for El Paso this year?

I'm doing their VSAS now and they require us to pay for their $50 background check up front before submitting...which seems..aggressive..
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I didn’t apply to any sites with fees required before acceptance. I’m already paying VSAS to maybe not even get a spot so why would I potentially throw more money away on fees, but no acceptance? I hope those kind of places historically have given a spot to all who applied...
 
TTPpentad said:
I didn’t apply to any sites with fees required before acceptance. I’m already paying VSAS to maybe not even get a spot so why would I potentially throw more money away on fees, but no acceptance? I hope those kind of places historically have given a spot to all who applied...
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I made that mistake at SLU. They have a $50 fee just to look at your application. Got rejected.
 
8741empls said:
This is how UofA does their sub-is. The have very few true EM slots and those are nearly always taken up by their own students. The EM-CC is mostly EM and will garner you a SLOE.
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Ya but it's not considered in the same light as a normal SLOE is. You can't use that as one of your 2 SLOEs for the application. If it's a third or fourth, sure - but I wouldn't use it as one of my main 2
 
random122893 said:
Ya but it's not considered in the same light as a normal SLOE is. You can't use that as one of your 2 SLOEs for the application. If it's a third or fourth, sure - but I wouldn't use it as one of my main 2
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On what do you base this? I, for me alone, don't know anything about you. If you are faculty, that is one thing. However, from your other posts, you appear to be a student. If it's an SLOE, it's on the form. "Is it a yard sale? If it's in the yard, it's for sale."
 
Apollyon said:
On what do you base this? I, for me alone, don't know anything about you. If you are faculty, that is one thing. However, from your other posts, you appear to be a student. If it's an SLOE, it's on the form. "Is it a yard sale? If it's in the yard, it's for sale."
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I think he’s referring to that it may award a “subspeciality sloe” as it’s not a traditional SubI.

Gamer commented on these earlier in the ask an aPD anything thread - and said they were of less value to PDs.

However I’m not familiar with Tucson’s process and have heard conflicting things on what type of SLOE is awarded for the EM/CC rotation. Would be useful to hear from someone who rotated there I guess...
 
The Knife & Gun Club said:
I think he’s referring to that it may award a “subspeciality sloe” as it’s not a traditional SubI.

Gamer commented on these earlier in the ask an aPD anything thread - and said they were of less value to PDs.

However I’m not familiar with Tucson’s process and have heard conflicting things on what type of SLOE is awarded for the EM/CC rotation. Would be useful to hear from someone who rotated there I guess...
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Then I offer my apologies. Although I read every post of every thread on EM, I do not recall this.
 
Apollyon said:
Then I offer my apologies. Although I read every post of every thread on EM, I do not recall this.
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I guess I should clarify re: the subspecialty SLOEs. Much like any SLOE, they aren't all the same. Getting an US rotation SLOE that ranks only 3 students who did that rotation without any real objective data doesn't help me much. But if 20 students do an ED critical care rotation and are ranked against eachother on a subspecialty SLOE, then I'd put a good bit of weight on that. Every program is likely going to weigh these subspecialty SLOEs in the application differently. There are no PD surveys on this topic to show a consensus opinion like there are on the SLOEs themselves in terms of importance, how many you need, etc.

My general opinion on ranking of LOR importance is:

1. SLOE from EM residency
2. Subspecialty SLOE or SLOE from a nonresidency (there are a variety of qualities of both these, and often depends on how many students rotated; a modified SLOE with an N=1 is basically just a personal LOR and equivalent to #3)
3. Non-SLOE LOR from an EM doc
4. Non-EM LOR

For me, the gap between #1 and #2 is pretty big unless the modified SLOE (subspecialty or nonresidency SLOE) has a decent number of students with a decent grade distribution. But from many of the ones I've seen this isn't usually the case. Maybe that's just the bias based on those applicants that have applied my way and the places they've gotten their modified SLOEs though.
 
random122893 said:
Ya but it's not considered in the same light as a normal SLOE is. You can't use that as one of your 2 SLOEs for the application. If it's a third or fourth, sure - but I wouldn't use it as one of my main 2
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I clarified this with the U of A Tucson coordinator as I also got offered a spot there for the EM/CC rotation. The letter they write is a standard EM SLOE. The only difference between the EM rotation and the EM/CC is that one week during the rotation as an EM/CC student you do 2 EM shifts, followed by 3 days in the ICU. The idea being that you follow the patients you admitted on your EM shifts once you hit the floor. So basically the only difference is that the EM/CC people do 3 less ED shifts. It's not a true EM subspecialty elective, just a slightly different schedule. They said whether you're doing the EM core or the EM/CC you get exactly the same type of letter
 
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SmurfTurf said:
I clarified this with the U of A Tucson coordinator as I also got offered a spot there for the EM/CC rotation. The letter they write is a standard EM SLOE. The only difference between the EM rotation and the EM/CC is that one week during the rotation as an EM/CC student you do 2 EM shifts, followed by 3 days in the ICU. The idea being that you follow the patients you admitted on your EM shifts once you hit the floor. So basically the only difference is that the EM/CC people do 3 less ED shifts. It's not a true EM subspecialty elective, just a slightly different schedule. They said whether you're doing the EM core or the EM/CC you get exactly the same type of letter
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You were offered a sport? Or invited to apply for a spot?
 
SmurfTurf said:
I clarified this with the U of A Tucson coordinator as I also got offered a spot there for the EM/CC rotation. The letter they write is a standard EM SLOE. The only difference between the EM rotation and the EM/CC is that one week during the rotation as an EM/CC student you do 2 EM shifts, followed by 3 days in the ICU. The idea being that you follow the patients you admitted on your EM shifts once you hit the floor. So basically the only difference is that the EM/CC people do 3 less ED shifts. It's not a true EM subspecialty elective, just a slightly different schedule. They said whether you're doing the EM core or the EM/CC you get exactly the same type of letter
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This is accurate. It’s not written as a sub specialty SLOE.

random122893 said:
Ya but it's not considered in the same light as a normal SLOE is. You can't use that as one of your 2 SLOEs for the application. If it's a third or fourth, sure - but I wouldn't use it as one of my main 2
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I realize this was meant to be informative but it isn’t accurate and therefore not helpful. This is a stressful time for people, partially because of all of the confusion and misinformation floating around. Try not to comment if you don’t know what you are saying to be true.
 
8741empls said:
This is accurate. It’s not written as a sub specialty SLOE.



I realize this was meant to be informative but it isn’t accurate and therefore not helpful. This is a stressful time for people, partially because of all of the confusion and misinformation floating around. Try not to comment if you don’t know what you are saying to be true.
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Wasn't trying to scare anyone. To echo what gamer said, I was told by multiple people at my program to be cautious since it's not a 100% normal SLOE. Yes, if programs look at it and see what happens, they'll likely view it similar to other SLOEs. But there's a reason it's a different course from their normal Sub-I - because it's not completely EM. If one was only doing two EM rotations - say their home program and this one - that's riskier than if they're doing three rotations and this is their third sloe while the other two are normal EM sub-i's. But I wouldn't be comfortable doing only two and having that be one of them just given the risk that someone doesn't view it the same. I apologize for any confusion, but I'm glad others were able to offer their input to help clarify it for everyone.
 
I think this illustrates a bigger point. Always trust your home REAL people, over SDN.


random122893 said:
Wasn't trying to scare anyone. To echo what gamer said, I was told by multiple people at my program to be cautious since it's not a 100% normal SLOE. Yes, if programs look at it and see what happens, they'll likely view it similar to other SLOEs. But there's a reason it's a different course from their normal Sub-I - because it's not completely EM. If one was only doing two EM rotations - say their home program and this one - that's riskier than if they're doing three rotations and this is their third sloe while the other two are normal EM sub-i's. But I wouldn't be comfortable doing only two and having that be one of them just given the risk that someone doesn't view it the same. I apologize for any confusion, but I'm glad others were able to offer their input to help clarify it for everyone.
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random122893 said:
Wasn't trying to scare anyone. To echo what gamer said, I was told by multiple people at my program to be cautious since it's not a 100% normal SLOE. Yes, if programs look at it and see what happens, they'll likely view it similar to other SLOEs. But there's a reason it's a different course from their normal Sub-I - because it's not completely EM. If one was only doing two EM rotations - say their home program and this one - that's riskier than if they're doing three rotations and this is their third sloe while the other two are normal EM sub-i's. But I wouldn't be comfortable doing only two and having that be one of them just given the risk that someone doesn't view it the same. I apologize for any confusion, but I'm glad others were able to offer their input to help clarify it for everyone.
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I apologize if I came off aggressive. If you were given this advice about this specific SLOE by your program leadership I would follow it. That would contradict what I was told by program leadership last year who are familiar with these SLOEs, but it doesn’t make the advice you received less valid. I thought you were lumping this rotation in with other sub specialty rotations more commonly discussed (EMS/wilderness/US), which is why I said what I said. Good luck this season!
 
medhopeful82 said:
Did you email them or get rejected via VSAS?
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I got a rejection via email. I clarified with the coordinator and there were no positions available any longer. I thought it was funny was that they sent me the email 5 days before they said anyone would hear back.
 
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