Well established private practice internships?

[jb192226]

I'm a current 3rd year veterinary student. I'm interested in pursuing a career in small animal emergency medicine (still unsure if I want to pursue a residency). At the moment, I am leaning towards applying for a private practice internship (SA rotating or ER-focused) through the match as opposed to an academic one. What are the best ways to determine which private practice internships are legitimate vs which ones would be less valuable as a learning experience? Unfortunately my clinical schedule is full, so I only have the chance to extern at two of the places I am interested in applying to.

I have heard about AMC, Angell, Friendship in DC, and Wheat Ridge Animal Hospital. I'm interested to know what you all have heard about these programs, or if you have experience there. What programs come to mind when you think of well established private practice internships?

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[pp9]

The best way (imo) to find a good program is word of mouth and talking to current interns at places you are interested in. Also check the intern surveys on VIRMP, although take those with a grain of salt and pay attention to how many interns actually answered. Bigger intern class =/= better program, smaller intern class =/= less learning.

I did not end up ranking Friendship very high (dead last, actually) after I spoke with their interns, but that would have been for 2019-2020. They did not have good things to say back then, so definitely talk to their current interns and see if things seem better. AMC and Angell have always been notorious for their workload/hours (Angell in particular), so reach out to those interns as well and read their intern surveys.

I interned with Bluepearl Tampa and would recommend adding them to your list of places to check out. They have had interns for something like 20-25+ years. Absolutely set me up perfectly to roll right into FT ER, but they also produce a lotttt of specialists if you choose to go down that path.

I checked my very old match spreadsheet and here's some of the more well-known programs I considered to inspire you: VCA LA/Alameda East/Aurora/Valley, Metropolitan, Ocean State, Oradell, Red Bank. I toured VCA Valley and loved the program, but didn't end up ranking them after meeting their ....interesting medical director (who is no longer there!) so although they are smaller, consider checking them out.

 

[JaynaAli]

I don’t really think “well established” really means a whole lot about quality, to be honest. Long running “big name” programs can be toxic just as easily as other places. A lot of skeletons get hidden in closets or buried. I’ve heard good things and horrible things about a lot of programs. My internship was with a relatively newer small program and had a pretty good time. I mean it kinda sucked and I wouldn’t want to do it again, but I don’t regret it and I loved the people I worked with and have gone back to visit once when I was in the area. The main downside of a smaller internship program is that there are fewer specialists to act as references, but the tradeoff is really that those people who were there got to know me extremely well and we had more direct opportunities for experience. I agree with pp that talking to current and former trainees is the best thing you can do to “vet” a program. I haven’t looked at a VIRMP listing in years, but when I went through it used to have a stat for number of people who started over the past five years, number who finished, number who tried for residency, and number who got a residency which I found pretty informative about programs too. If people are starting and not finishing, there better be a dang good explanation why.

 

[gingertabby99]

I did not end up ranking Friendship very high (dead last, actually) after I spoke with their interns, but that would have been for 2019-2020. They did not have good things to say back then, so definitely talk to their current interns and see if things seem better.

Seconding this. I'm an incoming first year so definitely not an intern, but I live very close to DC and have heard very mixed reviews about Friendship. I know of one doctor who started an internship there, but left halfway through because their mentor quit and Friendship never gave them another one. I have also heard their turnover rate for both doctors and technicians is high. Would definitely check with current interns to see how they feel before applying there tbh

 

[TheGirlWithTheFernTattoo]

I think it is difficult; when I applied for internship I only applied to academia with the exception of Wheat Ridge/Friendship specifically because I didn't want to have to try and screen quality control. For similar reasons as listed above, I ended up not ranking Friendship after warnings from several of their previous/current interns (this was for the 2022-2023 intern year) and a couple red flags during my interview.

There are certainly good programs out there in PP other than the big OG ones everyone knows. I was impressed by the internship experience our interns get when I started my residency, despite having not even heard of the hospital until the start of my residency match cycle. That being said, my program (along with every program) has cons along with the pros.

Few specific thoughts:

1. I agree that talking to the previous and current intern classes is the most important thing in terms of quality control screening. VIRMP intern surveys can also help, remembering that they need to be taken with a grain of salt (especially if only a small % of the intern class reviewed).

2. I would personally never be an intern at a brand new program.

3. I would personally not be an intern somewhere where there is only 1-2 intern positions (exceptions for every rule, but generally these internships are going to be newer/less established/smaller hospitals).

4. If you have an ultimate goal of residency, going somewhere that is at least large enough/big enough in your specialty field for residency programs to recognize the name can help you (but this is not necessarily vital). I would not consider my hospital a well known rotating internship program overall, but in the critical care match circles we are definitely more known and I think our interns have benefited from that.

5. Decide whether or not you want to be a soley outpatient ER doctor, or if you have interest in inpatient/critical care work. You would be shocked at how few internships (including several of the big ones discussed above) do not have interns getting primary case responsibility in the ICU. If that is important to you, it will be vital to ask programs if you will get that experience.

 

[TheGirlWithTheFernTattoo]

One other thing is if you have a strong interest in a specific hospital, see if you can set up an externship during 4th year. (Assuming your school lets you do that and you can financially afford it). That is one of the best ways to see a hospital, work with the interns and see their lives/how they are treated, and see if you mesh with the hospital culture.

 

[battie]

I practice in the Denver area and know several interns (past, none present) from the local specialty hospitals. I'm willing to speak privately via PM.

 

[supershorty]

Echoing to talk to current and previous interns. There were some well established private practices that I decided not to rank after speaking with multiple years of previous interns. The virmp surveys only tell you so much (and programs, both academic and private, lie about their hours, etc., in their VIRMP listings lol), but direct conversation can get you the info you want.

I’m happy to discuss via pm.

 

[pp9]

It also depends on what you're looking for honestly. My idea of good may be different from someone else's and vice versa. Some people are strictly after prestige, which would make for a very different rank list compared to someone who just wants to match somewhere decent, or even just match somewhere and get the year over with.

I personally would be ranking established programs that you get really good reviews on, whether they are 'well known' or not. You can get great mentorship and experience with maaany internships out there without having to work 80+ hours a week while in a 'prestigious' program, for example. Sometimes being one of 2-4 total interns means you get a lot of experience and 1:1 guidance, whereas a bigger class might just be bigger so the hospital can use interns to staff the ER 7 days a week (my internship did this, pros and cons to it). This is why talking to current or recent interns is so important.

Personally I was initially after prestige, then did a 180 and just aimed for programs that seemed decent. I think I 'applied' to close to 20 and only ended up ranking 5 intern years should be hard, but they shouldn't be a health hazard.