What happens to people that lie during the application process?

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I know someone who got into their first-choice med school. I talked to him about how everything went along and he revealed to me that he had lied during the application process. He made up a colossal amount of BS and basically sold it to the adcom. So, do people who lie during the application process usually get caught? If they don’t, I guess it really sucks for everyone…

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They know that they had to lie to get into school. Deep down inside they may feel they aren't good enough to get in without lying... Not someone I'd want as my doctor.
 
You - er, I mean "your friend" - should probably withdraw from that school immediately. You could reapply next year to different schools and tell the truth, but to attend based on lies is a recipe for disaster all round.
 
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I know someone who got into their first-choice med school. I talked to him about how everything went along and he reviled to me that he had lied during the application process. He made up a colossal amount of BS and basically sold it to the adcom. So, do people who lie during the application process usually get caught? If they don’t, I guess it really sucks for everyone…


Most people lie on their AMCAS application. What is the personal statement, after all, but one giant confabulation trying to divert attention from your perfectly reasonable but selfish-sounding reasons for wanting to be a doctor?

I haven't seen many AMCAS applications but if ERAS applications (of which I have seen a bunch) are an indication, self-aggrandizement is the rule rather than the exception and everybody who applies to residency programs was the hottest thing since buttered toast.

Your friend just carried it to the next logical step. If he phrased it just right it's not verifiable anyway unless his school wants to hire a private investigator.

None of it matters anyway .
 
You - er, I mean "your friend" - should probably withdraw from that school immediately. You could reapply next year to different schools and tell the truth, but to attend based on lies is a recipe for disaster all round.

lol..I'm a sophomore..He isn't my "friend"...Just some random guy I know from AMSA
 
You - er, I mean "your friend" - should probably withdraw from that school immediately. You could reapply next year to different schools and tell the truth, but to attend based on lies is a recipe for disaster all round.

No. No it's not. The admission process is ridiculous and some people just don't have time to jump through the idiotic hoops. If his grades and MCAT scores were good and he has the desire the "friend" will do just fine.

It's like taking a lab with organic chemistry as a pre-med. Do you think everybody does the lab perfectly? No. Most rational people realize that a rinky-dink lab class taught by a Chinese graduate student ranks a 0.0 on the 10 point scale of importance and just make up the data to put on their lab report.

It's just a hoop. Better to use some cunning to circumvent it.
 
To answer your question though, nothing happens until they are caught. Then they either get kicked out or leave on their own accord out of shame and embarassment.

It's just not smart to tell big lies (or any lies) on applications. And that includes embelishing activities and 'minor' lies like that.

Just be honest and be who you really are. If you don't, then your entire career will be plagued with the worry that the entire house of cards could fall at any time over those lies told long ago.

If it was me in your shoes, I woulf strongly consider an anonymous email to that school to suggest they verify that candidate's information. But that's perhaps a little gunnerish. Or is it?
 
I know someone who got into their first-choice med school. I talked to him about how everything went along and he reviled to me that he had lied during the application process. He made up a colossal amount of BS and basically sold it to the adcom. So, do people who lie during the application process usually get caught? If they don’t, I guess it really sucks for everyone…

Freudian?

With the gunner mentality among most pre-meds, what kind of an idiot would tell some other pre-med that he lied on his app?

This sounds like a total BS story to me...not that someone lied on the app, but that someone would tell another pre-med he lied...
 
They know that they had to lie to get into school. Deep down inside they may feel they aren't good enough to get in without lying... Not someone I'd want as my doctor.

Aarrgh! No no no! It's just that some people don't want to work at a free needle exchange, volunteer at the homeless shelter, or spend money and time for an excursion to some Third World **** hole. I was fortunate when I applied because I was older than most of you and had a legitimate CV but not everybody is so lucky.
 
To answer your question though, nothing happens until they are caught. Then they either get kicked out or leave on their own accord out of shame and embarassment.

It's just not smart to tell big lies (or any lies) on applications. And that includes embelishing activities and 'minor' lies like that.

Just be honest and be who you really are. If you don't, then your entire career will be plagued with the worry that the entire house of cards could fall at any time over those lies told long ago.

If it was me in your shoes, I woulf strongly consider an anonymous email to that school to suggest they verify that candidate's information. But that's perhaps a little gunnerish. Or is it?

I don't find screwing up people's lives amusing..even if they did do something wrong
 
To answer your question though, nothing happens until they are caught. Then they either get kicked out or leave on their own accord out of shame and embarassment.

It's just not smart to tell big lies (or any lies) on applications. And that includes embelishing activities and 'minor' lies like that.

Just be honest and be who you really are. If you don't, then your entire career will be plagued with the worry that the entire house of cards could fall at any time over those lies told long ago.

If it was me in your shoes, I woulf strongly consider an anonymous email to that school to suggest they verify that candidate's information. But that's perhaps a little gunnerish. Or is it?

Again, Arrrgh! If you structure your lies correctly, there is no way to prove that you are lying. Suppose you report working 100 hours in a homeless shelter but really only worked 20. How is anyone going to prove you didn't, especially two, four, or eight years after the fact? What if you exaggerate your leadership role in an activity or two where you were in fact mostly a bystander? It's all subjective and there is no way to disprove anything.

Now, making up publishing a paper or academic credintials is stupid because these are easily verifiable but the subjective stuff? Come on.
 
Wow. You're a cutthroat bunch. Basically, you're all telling the OP that it's okay to lie because nobody gets hurt and nobody will find out?

So in order to be competitive in admissions, I'm going to be forced to lie, and lie bigger than everyone else but just enough not to get caught?

Just for my own edification, do premeds ever grow up and start acting ethically, or is my future career as a doc going to be nothing but one lie after another in order to simply stay afloat?
 
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Freudian?

With the gunner mentality among most pre-meds, what kind of an idiot would tell some other pre-med that he lied on his app?

This sounds like a total BS story to me...not that someone lied on the app, but that someone would tell another pre-med he lied...

No, it wasn't a freudian slip. He didn't tell me he "lied", he just told me he made a bunch of stuff up. I think that he was indifferent to whether or not I knew about him "lying"...you'd be surprised at what people in general tell other people
 
...If it was me in your shoes, I woulf strongly consider an anonymous email to that school to suggest they verify that candidate's information. But that's perhaps a little gunnerish. Or is it?...

Man. You got beaten up a lot as a kid, didn't you?
 
No, it wasn't a freudian slip. He didn't tell me he "lied", he just told me he made a bunch of stuff up. I think that he was indifferent to whether or not I knew about him "lying"...you'd be surprised at what people in general tell other people

Umm, get a dictionary and check the def of "reviled" then get back to us.

Might also look up on wikipedia what is meant by "freudian slip" while you are at it...

Better get back to your home room, scooter - they are getting ready to recite the pledge of allegiance and do your minute of silent prayer...

Troll.
 
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...So in order to be competitive in admissions, I'm going to be forced to lie, and lie bigger than everyone else but just enough not to get caught?

Yes, especially if you are a normal person who doesn't want to do any useless extra-curricular activities. Medical school admission has become so over-the-top that pretty soon everybody will be lying as it will be impossible to do otherwise as the inflation in unwritten requirements continues to escalate.
 
Yes, especially if you are a normal person who doesn't want to do any useless extra-curricular activities.

;)

I see your point. Suddenly my app is looking a whole bunch stronger.
 
Umm, get a dictionary and check the def of "reviled" then get back to us.

Might also look up on wikipedia what is meant by "freudian slip" while you are at it...

Better get back to your home room, scooter - they are getting ready to recite the pledge of allegiance and do your minute of silent prayer...

Troll.

I meant revealed*..I don't know how/why I wrote "reviled"...what were you referring to when you wrote "freudian"?
 
What happens to the people that lie?

They get accepted.
 
Yes, especially if you are a normal person who doesn't want to do any useless extra-curricular activities. Medical school admission has become so over-the-top that pretty soon everybody will be lying as it will be impossible to do otherwise as the inflation in unwritten requirements continues to escalate.

Quite cynical...and quite true.
 
To the 'ethicists' out there who believe that the person in the OP is living in a "house of cards" or teetering on the brink of career disaster, I suggest you start reading a little less Ochem and a little more Niccolò Machiavelli.

The application process is NOT a fair one. To tell you the truth, if I had the chance to do it all over again, I would lie my *** off. You know why? b/c most other applicants do. Law of the jungle.

A hard fact that you will have to learn in any field, especially this one, is that the "best man for the job" is rarely the one who gets it. There's a reason that Panda Bear has been saying the same thing.
 
The truth about the fact is that if everyone has to lie to gain admissions, then there is something seriously wrong with the system. I mean, I've been asked by former admissions committee members whom I shadowed why I didn't just put down that I shadowed them. From the proverbial horses mouth, they seem to know that everyone indulges/lies on their app. Some people are definitely more bold with their lies (ie making up extra curriculars, shadow experiences, etc.), but apparently, it's viewed as being tolerable by at least some adcoms.
 
Five years ago, I would shake my head in disgust at such a comment.

Now I just realize I'm years behind in mastering this skill.

I've gotten so cynical in the past 5 years!

The big realization was that people don't get ahead (in any field) by worrying about the effects of their actions on others. They make their own rules and standards.

But I'd still rather get what I can get doing things my way instead of stepping on others.
 
You - er, I mean "your friend" - should probably withdraw from that school immediately. You could reapply next year to different schools and tell the truth, but to attend based on lies is a recipe for disaster all round.

is this a joke?

plzzz, most of the freakin premeds exaggerate about everything and make themselves seem all that. you get this impression by just talking to them for 5 minutes.

honestly, it's like any business where you try to sell yourself to your fullest. you're trying to sell yourself over other applicants to the adcoms. what do you expect...of course there are going to be these grandiose exaggerations. i guess the smart person is the one who exaggerates the things that can't be disproved. *sighhh*

no, i don't do this. i haven't even applied yet, but i'm just saying what do you expect...all you have to do is read any personal statement. these isn't just for med schools, either. personal statements, especially for law school, are huge in the app. process and it just amazes me. these PSs are the most overblown writings i have ever seen, but adcoms eat them up. whoever is the best at selling themselves wins the job. that's how it is in any application process.

also, in response to the person who says "they are left with having to feel guilty that they lied and got in," honestly, i don't think that bothers them. if it bothered them they wouldn't have done it. i in no way advocate this strategy, but your naive to think it doesn't happen.

another thing is...i've had professors and professionals tell me "be careful about overexaggerating your resume. if you do, at least make sure it's something that cannot be checked." they then laugh...because they know most ppl do it. yea it sucks, the system sucks...but you can also argue the system sucks for ppl who are bad standardized test takers who get owned by the MCAT and can't get in anywhere. they could have the best grades, be the hardest worker, would make an amazing doctor, but can't get over that last huge MCAT leap.
 
Of course people lie in their app, noone wants to read about normal people's boring lives.
 
is this a joke?

plzzz, most of the freakin premeds exaggerate about everything and make themselves seem all that. you get this impression by just talking to them for 5 minutes.

honestly, it's like any business where you try to sell yourself to your fullest. you're trying to sell yourself over other applicants to the adcoms. what do you expect...of course there are going to be these grandiose exaggerations. i guess the smart person is the one who exaggerates the things that can't be disproved. *sighhh*

no, i don't do this. i haven't even applied yet, but i'm just saying what do you expect...all you have to do is read any personal statement. these isn't just for med schools, either. personal statements, especially for law school, are huge in the app. process and it just amazes me. these PSs are the most overblown writings i have ever seen, but adcoms eat them up. whoever is the best at selling themselves wins the job. that's how it is in any application process.

also, in response to the person who says "they are left with having to feel guilty that they lied and got in," honestly, i don't think that bothers them. if it bothered them they wouldn't have done it. i in no way advocate this strategy, but your naive to think it doesn't happen.

another thing is...i've had professors and professionals tell me "be careful about overexaggerating your resume. if you do, at least make sure it's something that cannot be checked." they then laugh...because they know most ppl do it. yea it sucks, the system sucks...but you can also argue the system sucks for ppl who are bad standardized test takers who get owned by the MCAT and can't get in anywhere. they could have the best grades, be the hardest worker, would make an amazing doctor, but can't get over that last huge MCAT leap.

Agreed. Especially the part about "they are left with having to feel guilty that they lied and got in".

Real life TRUE example: URM friend of mine applies last day of application cycle...oh wait, sorry, his MOM applied for him! 27 MCAT with 3.8GPA. Used the same EC's that his sister wrote on her application for his own AMCAS application! Lied in his PS about his underpriviledged status (he has over $80K in his own bank account). Within 2-3 months he has 5 medical school acceptances.

I speak with him on the phone all the time. He loves his life. He loves knowing that he didn't have to work his butt off to get to where he's at. He played the system and won.

If you want to do things "the right way" and take the moral high road, GREAT! I sincerely mean it. BUT be willing to live with the consequences if you don't get accepted. It will be no one's fault except your own.
 
Agreed. Especially the part about "they are left with having to feel guilty that they lied and got in".

Real life TRUE example: URM friend of mine applies last day of application cycle...oh wait, sorry, his MOM applied for him! 27 MCAT with 3.8GPA. Used the same EC's that his sister wrote on her application for his own AMCAS application! Lied in his PS about his underpriviledged status (he has over $80K in his own bank account). Within 2-3 months he has 5 medical school acceptances.

I speak with him on the phone all the time. He loves his life. He loves knowing that he didn't have to work his butt off to get to where he's at. He played the system and won.

If you want to do things "the right way" and take the moral high road, GREAT! I sincerely mean it. BUT be willing to live with the consequences if you don't get accepted. It will be no one's fault except your own.

hahahaha, that's hilarious and freakin awesome. i mean, what do you expect? of course things like that happen. the app. process is so superficial! it's even worse for law schools! they basically ONLY care about the LSAT, no joke! my friend had bad grades and a bad lsat and he just got into Georgetown (a top 10-15 school) because his mom went there! he got rejected from all the much lower tier schools but got into georgetown hahaha. the system is...flawed lol
 
So, do people who lie during the application process usually get caught? If they don’t, I guess it really sucks for everyone…
Depends on the lie. If the lie is "Yes, I want to work with the underserved in rural Oklahoma after doing a Family Practice residency at your school...." or basically anything that follows "I want to be a doctor because _____." then your friend is basically golden.

If the lie is "I got an MPH from Princeton", then he's rolling the dice.

Advice: don't sweat the successes, failures, injustices or unjust rewards that hit everyone else in this process. Focus on your own application, roll with the punches, and do your best. Anything else is wasted thinking.
 
Agreed. Especially the part about "they are left with having to feel guilty that they lied and got in".

Real life TRUE example: URM friend of mine applies last day of application cycle...oh wait, sorry, his MOM applied for him! 27 MCAT with 3.8GPA. Used the same EC's that his sister wrote on her application for his own AMCAS application! Lied in his PS about his underpriviledged status (he has over $80K in his own bank account). Within 2-3 months he has 5 medical school acceptances.

I speak with him on the phone all the time. He loves his life. He loves knowing that he didn't have to work his butt off to get to where he's at. He played the system and won.

If you want to do things "the right way" and take the moral high road, GREAT! I sincerely mean it. BUT be willing to live with the consequences if you don't get accepted. It will be no one's fault except your own.

How does anyone apply on the last day of the cycle? What about LORs? Sorry, but this story doesn't pass the smell test...leave out the BS about the last day, and then you have a nice tale to tell...

Grades and MCAT don't lie. LORs may not reveal underlying flaws, but for the most part, these don't lie. And if someone is legitimately a URM, even if not underprivileged financially, then more power to them (not sure the relevance of your inclusion of this tidbit in your story, but I concluded your story was BS anyway).

Thus there are sufficient checkpoints in this process to catch "liars" - and anybody reading this thread who is concluding that "anything goes" when it comes to lying on med school apps is an idiot.
 
How does anyone apply on the last day of the cycle? What about LORs? Sorry, but this story doesn't pass the smell test...leave out the BS about the last day, and then you have a nice tale to tell...

Grades and MCAT don't lie. LORs may not reveal underlying flaws, but for the most part, these don't lie. And if someone is legitimately a URM, even if not underprivileged financially, then more power to them (not sure the relevance of your inclusion of this tidbit in your story, but I concluded your story was BS anyway).

Thus there are sufficient checkpoints in this process to catch "liars" - and anybody reading this thread who is concluding that "anything goes" when it comes to lying on med school apps is an idiot.


:laugh: LOL :laugh:

Everything I wrote was and is 100% true. His LOR's were collected throughout his 4-years of undergrad.

Why wouldn't you believe he was a URM or that his mom submitted his application on the last day? Are these two pieces of information totally unbelievable to you????

"sufficient checkpoints"...where? You won't get away with everything but, it is, as the Portuguese say, Vale Tudo.
 
I'm sensing a lot of tension in this thread.
 
Maybe being able to lie and get away with it shows a skilled grasp of the human psyche and inter-personal communication. Having this skill can be argued as highly valuable for a physicians in not only dealing with patients, but the whole bureaucracy of medicine. And thus, the application processes selects two kind of people, one, those who are truly dedicated in their pursuit of the altruism of medicine, and two, those who are very good at being suceessful in a human environment.

I'll freely admit I may have exaggrated my extra-curricular activities a little on my primary application and maybe some of the essays I wrote on my secondary application can be considered a deviation from what I truly felt on the inside. But in the end, the results is that you get someone like me who wants to succeed and has a good amount of deisre to help people into a medical school. So doesn't that mean the system works out in the end?

I don't think a single (fine, maybe a extreme minority) applicant can say they didn't emboss their appllication in some form or another. But then again, compared to a guy who has actual paper published, the guy who says he's very interested in lab work but has nothing to show for it will still have a hell of a time trying to prove it.
 
I dont need to lie...Im the perfect Premed.
 
I'm sensing a lot of tension in this thread.

yes... tension....
Sexual tension that is....


Just get everyone on this thread together for a huge orgy (people like me can sit out cuz it might not fly well with our bf/gf/husb/wife) and then watch the posts, bet the atmosphere would feel a lot more relaxed (You can thank me later Panda Bear ;))

:D

*EDIT*

I hope this post is kosher enough cuz I don't need more complaints from the admins...
 
yes... tension....
Sexual tension that is....


Just get everyone on this thread together for a huge orgy (people like me can sit out cuz it might not fly well with our bf/gf/husb/wife) and then watch the posts, bet the atmosphere would feel a lot more relaxed (You can thank me later Panda Bear ;))

:D
wtf dude...haha
 
I'm sensing a lot of tension in this thread.

Its a hot topic. People put their dreams and future careers on the line with an application process that favors the applicant who can sell themself the best, comes from a more underpriviledged background, or whose parents can donate the most money.

The entire process isn't tainted, but the fact that, in some cases, there are less qualified applicants who get chosen over more qualified applicants.
 
:laugh: LOL :laugh:

Everything I wrote was and is 100% true. His LOR's were collected throughout his 4-years of undergrad.

Why wouldn't you believe he was a URM or that his mom submitted his application on the last day? Are these two pieces of information totally unbelievable to you????

"sufficient checkpoints"...where? You won't get away with everything but, it is, as the Portuguese say, Vale Tudo.

You go for it, Booger! The checkpoints are there, but you are obviously clever enough to know how much to lie and how to avoid them, so vale tudo to you!

The fact that the "kid" in your BS story is a URM was totally irrelevant to the theme of lying on the app...included only to inflame those who see even more unfairness in the AA stuff...
 
Maybe being able to lie and get away with it shows a skilled grasp of the human psyche and inter-personal communication. Having this skill can be argued as highly valuable for a physicians in not only dealing with patients, but the whole bureaucracy of medicine. And thus, the application processes selects two kind of people, one, those who are truly dedicated in their pursuit of the altruism of medicine, and two, those who are very good at being suceessful in a human environment.

I'll freely admit I may have exaggrated my extra-curricular activities a little on my primary application and maybe some of the essays I wrote on my secondary application can be considered a deviation from what I truly felt on the inside. But in the end, the results is that you get someone like me who wants to succeed and has a good amount of deisre to help people into a medical school. So doesn't that mean the system works out in the end?

I don't think a single (fine, maybe a extreme minority) applicant can say they didn't emboss their appllication in some form or another. But then again, compared to a guy who has actual paper published, the guy who says he's very interested in lab work but has nothing to show for it will still have a hell of a time trying to prove it.

An interesting point of view. I agree 100%
 
if I find out that a pre-med is lying, i assassinate them. discreetly. and then get back to my life.

after all, all sins are equal in the eyes of God.
 
if I find out that a pre-med is lying, i assassinate them. discreetly. and then get back to my life.

after all, all sins are equal in the eyes of God.

HA! in MY religion we just confess our sins and it's A-OKAY!

I pity you, non-christian :D

*EDIT*

Please don't offended religious people, there is much sarcasm in that
 
Whenever someone lies about saving bloated, african babies in Africa, a bloated, african baby dies. fur reel.

so it's kind of like saving them from their cruel fate in life.... I knew I should have worked this logic into my PS!
 
Okay, if you have not applied yet and you're reading this thread:

1. It is not necessary to lie to get into med school.
2. Despite the impression you get from this thread...not everyone does it.

Maintain your self-respect. Be yourself, work hard, tell the truth. If your grades are good enough, you MCAT is high enough, you have good interpersonal skills, and you can display a sufficient level of understanding of what it means to be a doctor (usually due to some clincal exposure), you can get into med school. You may get beat out at some schools because others with equal qualifications lied to make themselves stand out...it's a fact of life. But that's for them to deal with.
 
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