What happens to people that lie during the application process?

[bawer234]

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Okay, if you have not applied yet and you're reading this thread:

1. It is not necessary to lie to get into med school.
2. Despite the impression you get from this thread...not everyone does it.

Maintain your self-respect. Be yourself, work hard, tell the truth. If your grades are good enough, you MCAT is high enough, you have good interpersonal skills, and you can display a sufficient level of understanding of what it means to be a doctor (usually due to some clincal exposure), you can get into med school. You may get beat out at some schools because others with equal qualifications lied to make themselves stand out...it's a fact of life. But that's for them to deal with.

Not to nitpick but liars aren't the only one's dealing with the fact your seat was filled by their lie...YOU have to deal with it too.

Im not advocating lies, just awareness. How people chose to apply is their own business and choice.

 

[flip26]

Okay, if you have not applied yet and you're reading this thread:

1. It is not necessary to lie to get into med school.
2. Despite the impression you get from this thread...not everyone does it.

Maintain your self-respect. Be yourself, work hard, tell the truth. If your grades are good enough, you MCAT is high enough, you have good interpersonal skills, and you can display a sufficient level of understanding of what it means to be a doctor (usually due to some clincal exposure), you can get into med school. You may get beat out at some schools because others with equal qualifications lied to make themselves stand out...it's a fact of life. But that's for them to deal with.

Of course you are correct.

SDN breeds a certain snarky bravado from paranoid and gunnerish pre-meds who seem to have no moral center and rationalize their lying as necessary. These types exist everywhere, but they seem to be disproportionately represented on SDN, and their prevalence here could lead one to conclude that most pre-meds are lying their asses off on their apps...and I do not believe that is the case.

 

[EpiPEN]

This thread is beginning to sound more and more like the one we had about cheating

 

[flip26]

This thread is beginning to sound more and more like the one we had about cheating

Not surprising since lying is a form of cheating, and vice versa.

 

[bawer234]

This thread is beginning to sound more and more like the one we had about cheating

Ya, its getting a little too emotional and generalized.

 

[flip26]

Ya, its getting a little too emotional and generalized.

Don't you mean rationalized?

Because that is what people do when they exaggerate or lie or cheat - they rationalize that it was "OK" since "everybody does it" or some other immoral reasoning...

 

[bawer234]

Don't you mean rationalized?

Because that is what people do when they exaggerate or lie or cheat - they rationalize that it was "OK" since "everybody does it" or some other immoral reasoning...

🙄

 

[Margaux1985]

Of course you are correct.

SDN breeds a certain snarky bravado from paranoid and gunnerish pre-meds who seem to have no moral center and rationalize their lying as necessary. These types exist everywhere, but they seem to be disproportionately represented on SDN, and their prevalence here could lead one to conclude that most pre-meds are lying their asses off on their apps...and I do not believe that is the case.

Add that to the fact that most ADCOMS have years of experience and are pretty good at spotting BS and knowing what people put down on their EC and you can see how being truthful can be a better hook than having tons of EC listed. Afterall, if most people lie on their applications and fill out all the activities grid, how would each school be able to judge the level of extracurricular involvement of one applicant against another one?

Regardless of how much activities you have, you still need to meet some kind of a GPA/MCAT criteria to be even considered for an interview - and those numerical aspects are the hardest ones to fake.

 

[mrhealth]

i second this opinion. imagine how much better you will feel if you get into a school knowing they accepted who you ACTUALLY are rather than some fictional person who you are pretending to be. that you actually accomplished something. when we get out of med school, we will all have MDs. doesnt matter if its a top 10 school or a less recognizable school. if you get good board scores and study in school, you will end up wherever you want.

Okay, if you have not applied yet and you're reading this thread:

1. It is not necessary to lie to get into med school.
2. Despite the impression you get from this thread...not everyone does it.

Maintain your self-respect. Be yourself, work hard, tell the truth. If your grades are good enough, you MCAT is high enough, you have good interpersonal skills, and you can display a sufficient level of understanding of what it means to be a doctor (usually due to some clincal exposure), you can get into med school. You may get beat out at some schools because others with equal qualifications lied to make themselves stand out...it's a fact of life. But that's for them to deal with.

 

[Ooglyboogly]

I'm sensing a lot of tension in this thread.

I have noticed that the tension is really high in almost every thread. For some reason, people feel like it is their goal to raise an argument against anything and everything (usually just for the sake of the argument). They rarely tend to put out an educated argument; most of the time they just try to attack people for no reason. People have to learn that when you disagree with someone, you don’t have to necessarily hate them. I’m surprised I haven’t seen anybody attack someone with a “your mama” joke yet.

 

[bawer234]

I have noticed that the tension is really high in almost every thread. For some reason, people feel like it is their goal to raise an argument against anything and everything (usually just for the sake of the argument). They rarely tend to put out an educated argument; most of the time they just try to attack people for no reason. People have to learn that when you disagree with someone, you don’t have to necessarily hate them. I’m surprised I haven’t seen anybody attack someone with a “your mama” joke yet.

welcome to the internet.

 

[mdgator]

I have noticed that the tension is really high in almost every thread. For some reason, people feel like it is their goal to raise an argument against anything and everything (usually just for the sake of the argument). They rarely tend to put out an educated argument; most of the time they just try to attack people for no reason. People have to learn that when you disagree with someone, you don’t have to necessarily hate them. I’m surprised I haven’t seen anybody attack someone with a “your mama” joke yet.

your mamma rarely puts out an educated argument.

 

[Ooglyboogly]

your mamma rarely puts out an educated argument.

I would agree...I don't like my mother's opinions

 

[EpiPEN]

i second this opinion. imagine how much better you will feel if you get into a school knowing they accepted who you ACTUALLY are rather than some fictional person who you are pretending to be. that you actually accomplished something. when we get out of med school, we will all have MDs. doesnt matter if its a top 10 school or a less recognizable school. if you get good board scores and study in school, you will end up wherever you want.

Imagine how much better you will feel when you are rejected to all your schools and watching all your friends and people you don't like starting school in august.

I'm just saying...

 

[EpiPEN]

Add that to the fact that most ADCOMS have years of experience and are pretty good at spotting BS and knowing what people put down on their EC and you can see how being truthful can be a better hook than having tons of EC listed. Afterall, if most people lie on their applications and fill out all the activities grid, how would each school be able to judge the level of extracurricular involvement of one applicant against another one? .

See the problem is that's just as much speculation as anything else we might suggest about the whole admission process.

I think it's not a question of whether or not people lie, but how much each person has lied. Like I said before, I might have fudged the volunteering hours in my favor if you cosider that I didn't work EVERY week due to sick days, vacations, school, or what nots.

 

[mdgator]

Imagine how much better you will feel when you are rejected to all your schools and watching all your friends and people you don't like starting school in august.

I'm just saying...

I'd have trouble living with myself if I knew that I lied to get in. I couldn't deal with the thoughts of someone equally or more qualified than myself not getting in because they actually have some of the moral character that I tried so hard to convince the adcoms that I had. I'm just saying...

 

[bawer234]

Imagine how much better you will feel when you are rejected to all your schools and watching all your friends and people you don't like starting school in august.

I'm just saying...

+1

I believe a lot of Premeds assume that, because they are going into a traditionally noble field, the application process will select the most qualified canidates. I really do wish this were true.

If you choose to go the moral route (which I myself did) and not embellish your achievments, know that you are possibly placing yourself at a disadvantage. Make sure you are willing to accept the consequences and live with the fact that someone, perhaps less qualified, is sitting in your class seat.

 

[flip26]

See the problem is that's just as much speculation as anything else we might suggest about the whole admission process.

I think it's not a question of whether or not people lie, but how much each person has lied. Like I said before, I might have fudged the volunteering hours in my favor if you cosider that I didn't work EVERY week due to sick days, vacations, school, or what nots.

As I pointed out earlier, this is the rationalization for all cheaters and liars. Everybody is doing it, so I have to do it to just to be competitive.

Total BS. And really pathetic - if you lie or cheat, just admit it - say you are a liar and a cheat - don't rationalize your behavior and choices based on false assumptions about what EVERYBODY is doing...

 

[Perrotfish]

The OP still hasn´t revealed what the lies were. If it was about ECs and his PS he´s probably fine (and of course that´s on the line between lying and plain old salesmanship, and the school probably wasn´t swayed by this truth bending). If he lies about his GPA (sent false transcripts), MCAT, or wrote a letter of rec for himself he´s risking not only getting kicked out of the school, but expelled from his undergrad (this happened at my school when some people did the writing their own letter of rec thing, they got expelled and their degree revoked in their third year of grad school, stuck with 300K of debt and a high school education on their resume).

 

[Dazedinvt]

Cheat or lie and the AMCAS and Adcom gods will strike you down and render you disfigured and cursed for the rest of your life. Live in constant fear.

 

[bawer234]

As I pointed out earlier, this is the rationalization for all cheaters and liars. Everybody is doing it, so I have to do it to just to be competitive.

Total BS. And really pathetic - if you lie or cheat, just admit it - say you are a liar and a cheat - don't rationalize your behavior and choices based on false assumptions about what EVERYBODY is doing...

You are correct. Rationalization is a way of dealing with ethical dilemas. If you have to rationalize, you are more than likely violating some kind of ethical standard.

I am sure that I made myself out to be more altruistic than I actually am in my PS. I am a liar. With that said, I got my acceptance and I WILL be a doctor. And you know what? I couldn't be happier. In the end, what really matters?

 

[Ooglyboogly]

The OP still hasn´t revealed what the lies were. If it was about ECs and his PS he´s probably fine (and of course that´s on the line between lying and plain old salesmanship, and the school probably wasn´t swayed by this truth bending). If he lies about his GPA (sent false transcripts), MCAT, or wrote a letter of rec for himself he´s risking not only getting kicked out of the school, but expelled from his undergrad (this happened at my school when some people did the writing their own letter of rec thing, they got expelled and their degree revoked in their third year of grad school, stuck with 300K of debt and a high school education on their resume).

He said that he lied about participating in some events and a bunch of EC’s.

 

[flip26]

You are correct. Rationalization is a way of dealing with ethical dilemas. If you have to rationalize, you are more than likely violating some kind of ethical standard.

I am sure that I made more myself out to be more altruistic than I actually am in my PS. I am a liar. With that said, I got my acceptance and I WILL be a doctor. And you know what? I couldn't be happier. In the end, what really matters?

Casting yourself in the best possible light on your PS or in an essay or interview is not really "lying" although at some point I guess it could be - only you can be the judge of that - but if you are lying to others about your altruism, you are also lying to yourself, and you will be tested for this on the wards everyday of your medical career...seems kind of dumb to me.

The lying that I am talking about includes gross exaggerations about ECs (500 hours of volunteering when said person did far less, or none at all).

People who write fake LORs, etc., are idiots. Fortunately, most of the process is quantifiable and just about impossible to fake (grades, MCATs, criminal records, disciplinary records).

 

[mdgator]

You are correct. Rationalization is a way of dealing with ethical dilemas. If you have to rationalize, you are more than likely violating some kind of ethical standard.

I am sure that I made myself out to be more altruistic than I actually am in my PS. I am a liar. With that said, I got my acceptance and I WILL be a doctor. And you know what? I couldn't be happier. In the end, what really matters?

Depends on who you ask...yourself, or the honest guy whose spot you took. I guess he just didn't want it enough...

 

[Dazedinvt]

Whatever, the ability to self-promote is a very valuable skill. I totally don't have it and I got a big pile of rejections. lying or selling there is such a fine line and you just have to do what you think is right. Obviously you can't change what anyone else does, just hope in your dark little heart that they get what they deserve eventually.

Life isn't fair and applying to medschool is worse. Medicine may be a noble pursuit but those who pursue it may not be noble.

 

[WillieMaysHayes]

The liars will ultimately be reckoned with in residency interviews, job interviews, and- if it takes that long- malpractice suits. There's a residency interviewer i know who is a criminologist and he basically dissects your psyche during interviews. He can see through anyone.

 

[mdgator]

^^ Actually, exagerating your level of altruism in a PS will probably have absolutely no impact on the adcom's decision in almost every case, whether it is unethical or not. I didn't mean to imply that you are unqualified.

 

[Little Etoile]

I'd have trouble living with myself if I knew that I lied to get in. I couldn't deal with the thoughts of someone equally or more qualified than myself not getting in because they actually have some of the moral character that I tried so hard to convince the adcoms that I had. I'm just saying...

So... the fact that someone was president of their pre-med honor society, whereas you were not, and worked in a hospital for 1000 hours, whereas you only worked 100, means that they are more qualified than you for medical school? I that that's the point Panda Bear and others are trying to make. A lot of the fluff that people lie about and put on their app to get attention and stand out is just that: fluff. Those activities don't make you more qualified than others to become a doctor and thus, I think what people are arguing at least, is that it's easier/less harmful to lie about those things.

One of the physicians I work for who is top in his field, got into UCSF as a junior in college and is still on staff there today, told me the other day that when he was accepted he had *zero* hospital exposure. Not even a second. He hadn't done research. He hadn't shadowed a physician. He hadn't volunteered abroad. He simply had the stats, wrote a good PS and interviewed well. Now, I'm not saying it's a negative that we now have higher expectations in terms of students testing out their commitment to medicine- this is important- but the point is that the level of those expectations are unreasonable. The hoops people have to jump through to prove themselves and stand out are unnecessary and usually convey little about whether they will be a good physician or not. In some, perhaps even many cases, it's just a reflection of how good of a liar they are.

 

[flip26]

Whatever, the ability to self-promote is a very valuable skill. I totally don't have it and I got a big pile of rejections. lying or selling there is such a fine line and you just have to do what you think is right. Obviously you can't change what anyone else does, just hope in your dark little heart that they get what they deserve eventually.

Life isn't fair and applying to medschool is worse. Medicine may be a noble pursuit but those who pursue it may not be noble.

Without knowing you or your profile (stats, EC qualities, PS and essay quality, etc) or when/where you applied, it is impossible to say why you did not get in.

But I am fairly confident that the reason is NOT because you did not lie on your app or in your interviews. Don't fall into that trap. Improve your app, work on your interview skills, get some additional experiences, rewrite your PS from scratch and have people critique it, apply "better" or more broadly, apply early, etc...

 

[45408]

I meant revealed*..I don't know how/why I wrote "reviled"...what were you referring to when you wrote "freudian"?

 

[EpiPEN]

I'd have trouble living with myself if I knew that I lied to get in. I couldn't deal with the thoughts of someone equally or more qualified than myself not getting in because they actually have some of the moral character that I tried so hard to convince the adcoms that I had. I'm just saying...

Be prepared to be unable to handle life. Ask the med students, ask the doctors, ask anyone in the working world who can be considered half-bit successful. Self-promotion is a skill that often comes with those people who get ahead in life. I would like to see a pre-med who would say they didn't try hard to convince the adcoms they had moral characters. By your logic, if you tried and someone else didn't but actually "have some of the moral characters" that you tried to sell, then you wouldn't be able to live with it.

 

[flip26]

So... the fact that someone was president of their pre-med honor society, whereas you were not, and worked in a hospital for 1000 hours, whereas you only worked 100, means that they are more qualified than you for medical school? I that that's the point Panda Bear and others are trying to make. A lot of the fluff that people lie about and put on their app to get attention and stand out is just that: fluff. Those activities don't make you more qualified than others to become a doctor and thus, I think what people are arguing at least, is that it's easier/less harmful to lie about those things.

One of the physicians I work for who is top in his field, got into UCSF as a junior in college and is still on staff there today, told me the other day that when he was accepted he had *zero* hospital exposure. Not even a second. He hadn't done research. He hadn't shadowed a physician. He hadn't volunteered abroad. He simply had the stats, wrote a good PS and interviewed well. Now, I'm not saying it's a negative that we now have higher expectations in terms of students testing out their commitment to medicine- this is important- but the point is that the level of those expectations are unreasonable. The hoops people have to jump through to prove themselves and stand out are unnecessary and usually convey little about whether they will be a good physician or not. In some, perhaps even many cases, it's just a reflection of how good of a liar they are.

Well if it is fluff (and beyond some level I agree it is) then why do you seem to be condoning lying or exaggerating it? Seems like if it is unimportant, then there is no reason to lie about this sort of thing...especially if it really doesn't matter...but you seem to be saying that since it really doesn't matter, all the more reason to exaggerate or lie...

Sorry, but I don't get that reasoning - it is still lying - don't justify the lying because you think the thing being lied about is not really important.

 

[EpiPEN]

^^ Actually, exagerating your level of altruism in a PS will probably have absolutely no impact on the adcom's decision in almost every case, whether it is unethical or not. I didn't mean to imply that you are unqualified.

Tell that to the pre-meds everywhere who are trying with every ounce of their being to get into medical school. You think they will hear your "probably" have no impact?

no

 

[bawer234]

Depends on who you ask...yourself, or the honest guy whose spot you took. I guess he just didn't want it enough...

Haha you're right, it does. Its probably not because he didn't want it enough though. Its because he wasn't willing to do what took to get the seat...hypothetically speaking.

Now that I think about it, if there was an applicant who was truely more altruistic than me and didn't get accepted it was probably because (s)he wasn't as qualified academically or otherwise.

 

[Ooglyboogly]

lol...I told you people just argeu for the point of arguing(look at the 20 posts above). This is entertaining...let me go get some popcorn

 

[EpiPEN]

Casting yourself in the best possible light on your PS or in an essay or interview is not really "lying" although at some point I guess it could be - only you can be the judge of that - but if you are lying to others about your altruism, you are also lying to yourself, and you will be tested for this on the wards everyday of your medical career...seems kind of dumb to me.

uh huh, I hear ya, so... in other words... it's not about whether or not you lie, but HOW MUCH you lie.

 

[mdgator]

So... the fact that someone was president of their pre-med honor society, whereas you were not, and worked in a hospital for 1000 hours, whereas you only worked 100, means that they are more qualified than you for medical school? I that that's the point Panda Bear and others are trying to make. A lot of the fluff that people lie about and put on their app to get attention and stand out is just that: fluff. Those activities don't make you more qualified than others to become a doctor and thus, I think what people are arguing at least, is that it's easier/less harmful to lie about those things.

One of the physicians I work for who is top in his field, got into UCSF as a junior in college and is still on staff there today, told me the other day that when he was accepted he had *zero* hospital exposure. Not even a second. He hadn't done research. He hadn't shadowed a physician. He hadn't volunteered abroad. He simply had the stats, wrote a good PS and interviewed well. Now, I'm not saying it's a negative that we now have higher expectations in terms of students testing out their commitment to medicine- this is important- but the point is that the level of those expectations are unreasonable. The hoops people have to jump through to prove themselves and stand out are unnecessary and usually convey little about whether they will be a good physician or not. In some, perhaps even many cases, it's just a reflection of how good of a liar they are.

I'm not sure I follow the point of your post. (And that may just be a reflection on my verbal reasoning skills.) If all that stuff is just fluff, and doesn't matter anyway, then why lie about it. Just tell the truth, and let your numbers and interview skills carry you. I agree that it's ridiculously hard to get into med school now. I agree that how many mission trips to Africa you participated in, how many hours you volunteered in a hospital, how many soup kitchens you volunteer at, maybe even how many research publications you have...these factors will probably make little difference in how good a doctor you will be. And considering that there are probably 2 qualified candidates for every 1 position in a US med school means that these (arguably meaningless) factors actually do make a difference. But does that make lying about them any less morally objectionable? The fact is, some people maintained the grades they did, and still managed to do these things. Will they necessarily make better doctors? No. But can you really blame an adcom, which has to reject thousands of qualified applicants, for latching on to any and all factors that set people apart? Not really. The truth is, to a certain extent, great ECs are almost a necessity now.

Are the expectations bordering on unreasonable? Maybe. But that doesn't make it okay to lie. Will $4.00 gas prices make drive-offs at the gas pump okay? I mean, many people can't afford prices that high...

 

[EpiPEN]

Without knowing you or your profile (stats, EC qualities, PS and essay quality, etc) or when/where you applied, it is impossible to say why you did not get in.

But I am fairly confident that the reason is NOT because you did not lie on your app or in your interviews. Don't fall into that trap. Improve your app, work on your interview skills, get some additional experiences, rewrite your PS from scratch and have people critique it, apply "better" or more broadly, apply early, etc...

And how can you be so sure of that? I'm not saying I'm condoning this guy to lie big time next round, but who are you to be so sure of his situation?

 

[flip26]

uh huh, I hear ya, so... in other words... it's not about whether or not you lie, but HOW MUCH you lie.

Not even close to understanding what I was saying, but now you have a good one, buddy!

 

[cpants]

You are correct. Rationalization is a way of dealing with ethical dilemas. If you have to rationalize, you are more than likely violating some kind of ethical standard.

I am sure that I made myself out to be more altruistic than I actually am in my PS. I am a liar. With that said, I got my acceptance and I WILL be a doctor. And you know what? I couldn't be happier. In the end, what really matters?

Right, lying doesn't matter, as long as you get to be a doctor. Someday, you'll be the doctor who sells prescriptions and falsifies insurance claims. Hey, it will make you richer, and in the end, what really matters? Your lack of morals will catch up to you someday.

 

[flip26]

And how can you be so sure of that? I'm not saying I'm condoning this guy to lie big time next round, but who are you to be so sure of his situation?

Dude, you are obviously in the "lying is A-OK" camp and I am not.

You have rationalized your lying (or is it others' lying?) by saying that because everybody does it, it is not only OK but necessary for you to do it too.

I do not believe that most people are lying in these matters. Proof - I have none. And I am a fairly cynical and skeptical person. But I know myself, and I have lots of good friends, and I am as confident as I can be that they are not lying and cheating their way through life...maybe you are running with the wrong crowd?

 

[bawer234]

This thread alone has entertained me all day at work.

 

[EpiPEN]

lol...I told you people just argeu for the point of arguing(look at the 20 posts above). This is entertaining...let me go get some popcorn

yeah, it's such a shame that I actually have an opinion that I'm interested in discussing. If only I could just live the carefree life of watching and eating popcorn while throwing non-constructive cynicisms, then by gosh I too can care less about the world around me. Cheers to you

 

[bawer234]

Right, lying doesn't matter, as long as you get to be a doctor. Someday, you'll be the doctor who sells prescriptions and falsifies insurance claims. Hey, it will make you richer, and in the end, what really matters? Your lack of morals will catch up to you someday.

Welcome to the thread. And who cares if I make a ton of money exploiting my patients??? Its not like Im supposed to be an honest professional or something. Edit: PLEEEEASE NOTE MY SARCASM

I think you are taking my post out of context. What I meant is that I can live with my decision. Now please tone it down and keep things civil.

 

[w8ting2exhale]

Lying is unethical and wrong and not ideal. But we all know that it happens too often.

 

[Ooglyboogly]

Dude, you are obviously in the "lying is A-OK" camp and I am not.

You have rationalized your lying (or is it others' lying?) by saying that because everybody does it, it is not only OK but necessary for you to do it too.

I do not believe that most people are lying in these matters. Proof - I have none. And I am a fairly cynical and skeptical person. But I know myself, and I have lots of good friends, and I am as confident as I can be that they are not lying and cheating their way through life...maybe you are running with the wrong crowd?

Let me give you a hypothetical situation. Let's say you live in a third world country and you need a heart transplant. You could wait for your turn or you could bribe a doctor to get you higher on the list. What would you do?I think that ethics/morals need to take the backseat sometimes. Necessity>>>>>>Morals

 

[mdgator]

Be prepared to be unable to handle life. Ask the med students, ask the doctors, ask anyone in the working world who can be considered half-bit successful. Self-promotion is a skill that often comes with those people who get ahead in life. I would like to see a pre-med who would say they didn't try hard to convince the adcoms they had moral characters. By your logic, if you tried and someone else didn't but actually "have some of the moral characters" that you tried to sell, then you wouldn't be able to live with it.

Haha...I've been relatively successful at handling life so far, thank you, despite being exposed to my share of its harsh realities. As for the rest of your argument, I'm not saying that I can't handle the fact that tens of thousands of qualified applicants don't get in. It doesn't keep me up at night. But if I got in by unethical means, then it probably would.

Tell that to the pre-meds everywhere who are trying with every ounce of their being to get into medical school. You think they will hear your "probably" have no impact?

no

A person with reasonably good writing/communication skills can write a good PS without trying to make himself out to be Mother Theresa (sp?). My point was, adcoms look at what your grades are, what you've done, how well you interview, how well you communicate your understanding of medicine and your reasons for wanting to be a doctor. In most cases, how great a person you say you are probably makes little to no difference. You're simply not an impartial witness, and they know that. Saying things like, "I'm very altruistic and I want to help people"--probably means little to an adcom. Saying, "I have volunteered in a soup kitchen every weekend for the past three years"--that might mean something. My statement was kind of made with examples like these in mind.

 

[cpants]

Welcome to the thread. And who cares if I make a ton of money exploiting my patients??? Its not like Im supposed to be an honest professional or something. Edit: PLEEEEASE NOTE MY SARCASM

I think you are taking my post out of context. What I meant is that I can live with my decision. Now please tone it down and keep things civil.

Who cares if you lie to the adcom and screw over honest colleagues who worked hard and didn't falsify their applications? It's not like you are supposed to be an honest professional or something.

 

[EpiPEN]

Honestly, the bottom line is, if you have in any embossed your experiences in you application, than you have lied. For what I believe to be for a large portion if not all the medical school applitcants, the question is not one of if but one of how much. Some people lie a lot and get away with it, and some don't. Whether or not you like it, that's their survival strategy in life. Who are you to judge them? Just becuase I didn't lie about everything in my application doesn't mean that I should feel somehow justified to judge someone who has and still got in. Just like every survival strategy, there is a negative side to this one as well. If you are one who doesn't have the skill to backup what you say you can do, then you will get what's coming to you in the long run. But if you are someone who's got the skills to back up the boasts that you make, kudos to you, I got no beef with these people and their success.

 

[mdgator]

Let me give you a hypothetical situation. Let's say you live in a third world country and you need a heart transplant. You could wait for your turn or you could bribe a doctor to get you higher on the list. What would you do?I think that ethics/morals need to take the backseat sometimes. Necessity>>>>>>Morals

I think it's amusing that you see dying of heart failure as even slightly analoguous to not getting into med school. Newsflash: If you're seriously applying to med school, chances are you are a bright, capable person with a lot of work ethic...there are millions of other jobs out there. If you can't quite cut it in medicine, guess what...you'll live.