what is MD students opinion of DO med students

[DADDY]

i posted this already in the pre allopathic forum accidentally...sorry bout that...but what do you guys think

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[Rendar5]

I gotta respect them. I know that they can make great doctors even though it's easier to get in. And I'm interested in MMO myself. Well, any proven alternative treatments. I'm very into an approach to healing that can include more than just allopathic philosophies.

 

[DADDY]

I gotta respect them. I know that they can make great doctors even though it's easier to get in. And I'm interested in MMO myself. Well, any proven alternative treatments. I'm very into an approach to healing that can include more than just allopathic philosophies.

do u think most MD students think this....i have heard alot of them llok down on DO med students, because they think its easier to get in

 

[a_student]

do u think most MD students think this....i have heard alot of them llok down on DO med students, because they think its easier to get in

i think most mature medstudents don't, or atleast try not to, look down on anyone

i think there are defintely pluses to DO's especially, its starting to trouble me how much MD's rely on prescription drugs to keep their patients healthy

 

[nwanne_a]

i posted this already in the pre allopathic forum accidentally...sorry bout that...but what do you guys think

I think we all bring something to the table. It's like an allopathic student can have the worst bedside manner, or a DO student can be the head of the surgery department. What it comes down to is that we all have to work together, as well as with the PTs, RNs, etc

 

[lilmo]

my preceptor is a D.O. and used to teach at the local D.O. school. never actually seen her practice any of the D.O. specific stuff though. personally, i don't think there is a whole lot of difference between the majority of D.O's and MD's once you get into practice. (at least in my limited shadowing experince.)

 

[dancinjenn]

I seriously considered going DO. I was accepted and really loved the school. However it was about 4 states away and would have cost 3 times more over the four years. I honestly can say that I have never heard anyone badmouth a DO school at Wayne. I think that DO school is a great opportunity for those people with a little less than stellar gpa's and MCAT's but still have the drive to succeed. And if you have the drive you can do anything. My surgeon, one of the top head and neck surgeons in MI, brought a DO into his practice last year (previously it was only his practice). I would say, go where you feel comfortable and where they have the type of program you would like for residency.

I agree with Rendar5, I would love to learn OMM (Osteopathic Manipulative Medicine).

 

[celticmists18]

personally, I don't think a lot of med students really have sat down formulated an opinion . . . the only reason I can see that we (the allo med students) could get snotting towards DOs is that it IS easier to get in. But really, if they can do the job, who the hell cares if they are an MD or a DO

 

[phoenixsupra]

I gotta respect them. I know that they can make great doctors even though it's easier to get in. And I'm interested in MMO myself. Well, any proven alternative treatments. I'm very into an approach to healing that can include more than just allopathic philosophies.

Ditto for me. I think it's a pity that osteopathy is beginning become more and more like allo these days. I've got nothing but respect for DO's. They're few and far between around here but the ones I've met are no less competent than the md's. I'm a bit dissapointed when they don't know a hell of a lot about OMM, though.

I've looked at the DO forum here a few times. It seems to be organized by class rather than by topic so it's not as interesting to brouse through. What's with that?

 

[DrWuStar]

i think DO is more or less the same as MD. less prestigious by history and application process, but i don't think there are actual quality of care differences. i actually heard a lot more **** talking and bashing of DOs and DO schools during the application process than i do in med school.

 

[SaltySqueegee]

I don't care and all of my allo friends dont care. However, ask this same question in the pre-allo forum, and you're guaranteed a different response...

Ditto with the MMO... pretty cool.

 

[SaltySqueegee]

cntd...

A bit of history... it wasn't until recently that UCI changed over from Osteopathic to Allopathic. Just an aside...

 

[tigress]

I'm not sure if people who disagree just aren't posting here because they don't want to seem mean or something, or if everybody really feels the same about MDs and DOs. I theoretically would love to be unbiased, but I have to be honest: I have a higher opinion of MDs than of DOs. Possibly this is partially due to having had a very bad experience with one particular doctor who was a DO, which obviously isn't logical to extend that to the entire profession. But that's truly how I feel.

 

[celticmists18]

cntd...

A bit of history... it wasn't until recently that UCI changed over from Osteopathic to Allopathic. Just an aside...

UC Irvine? if so are you sure, my dad's partner is an MD and she went there like 20-25 years ago

 

[phoenixsupra]

I'm not sure if people who disagree just aren't posting here because they don't want to seem mean or something, or if everybody really feels the same about MDs and DOs. I theoretically would love to be unbiased, but I have to be honest: I have a higher opinion of MDs than of DOs. Possibly this is partially due to having had a very bad experience with one particular doctor who was a DO, which obviously isn't logical to extend that to the entire profession. But that's truly how I feel.

Very courageous post. It's true, biases form in odd and illogical ways. I didn't look down on DO's as a pre-med. But as an ex prestige junkie I sure didn't want to be looked down on either so I didn't apply to any DO schools. I remember that most pre-meds were really sh1tty about DO's. If you didn't know better you'd think they were comparing md's with podiatrists or beauty technicians or something. Yeah, no one cares about DO's in medschool and it's not a hot topic. But when it comes time to compete with them for jobs I wouldn't be too surprized if the old biases resurface. Anyway, prestige is BS. And what makes a good doctor IMHO is not so much the school they go to but the effort and thought they put in to understanding medicine in the larger sense.

 

[medic170]

I'm not sure if people who disagree just aren't posting here because they don't want to seem mean or something, or if everybody really feels the same about MDs and DOs. I theoretically would love to be unbiased, but I have to be honest: I have a higher opinion of MDs than of DOs. Possibly this is partially due to having had a very bad experience with one particular doctor who was a DO, which obviously isn't logical to extend that to the entire profession. But that's truly how I feel.

that's too bad. I am sorry you feel that way. I have had a lot of bad experiences with MD's, but I don't think they are inferior to DO's. Go figure, I hope in the future you will be able to look past your unfounded bias

 

[celticmists18]

that's too bad. I am sorry you feel that way. I have had a lot of bad experiences with MD's, but I don't think they are inferior to DO's. Go figure, I hope in the future you will be able to look past your unfounded bias

wow, that more than a tad harsh . . . and since people are being courageous and actually saying what they think I will add my two cents. personally I have come to think that some DO students (not all) have an inferiority complex, they are soooooo worried/ticked off by the fact that they think MD students look down on them, when in fact I bet most of them have NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT IT

 

[medic170]

wow, that more than a tad harsh . . . and since people are being courageous and actually saying what they think I will add my two cents. personally I have come to think that some DO students (not all) have an inferiority complex, they are soooooo worried/ticked off by the fact that they think MD students look down on them, when in fact I bet most of them have NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT IT

How was what I said harsh?

 

[Shinken]

Hook, line and sinker!!

Great job, DADDY...you make trolls proud.

 

[EvoDevo]

UC Irvine? if so are you sure, my dad's partner is an MD and she went there like 20-25 years ago

Totally true.

 

[DocGeorge7]

This type of thread is pointless.

 

[celticmists18]

How was what I said harsh?

her biased really isn't unfounded, she had a bad experience . . .maybe it was just my interpretation (always dangerous to read between the lines) but it sounded like you cast her as the vindictive one and yourself as the forgiving soul

I have a question: do people think MDs and DOs actually care or is it the STUDENTS in the programs?

 

[celticmists18]

OMG! consider this my last post, people are just sooooooo nasty to each other on here (or maybe they just love coming after me). thinking back nothing posted every helped me (definitely not in applying) . . . I think the board represents some of the worst types of pre-meds and ms so yall have fun "trolling" each other and crape like that 'cause I'm done!

 

[medic170]

her biased really isn't unfounded, she had a bad experience . . .maybe it was just my interpretation (always dangerous to read between the lines) but it sounded like you cast her as the vindictive one and yourself as the forgiving soul

I have a question: do people think MDs and DOs actually care or is it the STUDENTS in the programs?

She even said her bias was probably unfounded when she admitted that extending these feelings to all DO's was wrong. I thought I was being nice, and yes, I do think it is better to accept MD's and DO's as equal than to look down on one or the other for no apparent reason. If you extended your dislike to all people in a profession because of 1 bad experience, you would look down on everyone.


As for your second question, the bias exists with premeds, it decreases exponentially in med school, and it pretty much ceases to exist in the real world.

You see, as people grow up and mature, they begin to realize how stupid and unfounded some of their previous views were when they were kids.

 

[medic170]

OMG! consider this my last post, people are just sooooooo nasty to each other on here (or maybe they just love coming after me). thinking back nothing posted every helped me (definitely not in applying) . . . I think the board represents some of the worst types of pre-meds and ms so yall have fun "trolling" each other and crape like that 'cause I'm done!

Who was nasty, did I miss something?

 

[phoenixsupra]

Who was nasty, did I miss something?

Let up on CM. She's right you guys do have an inferiority complex. We don't really care. And tigress didn't justify her bias. She admits it was illogical, which speaks to your favor so flaming her is really dumb. Maybe that's why CM thinks you're being aggressive and nasty. Maybe you should apologize. I bet she'd overlook it.

 

[tigress]

Let up on CM. She's right you guys do have an inferiority complex. We don't really care. And tigress didn't justify her bias. She admits it was illogical, which speaks to your favor so flaming her is really dumb. Maybe that's why CM thinks you're being aggressive and nasty. Maybe you should apologize. I bet she'd overlook it.

FWIW, I didn't really think he was flaming me...maybe a tiny bit harsh, but I didn't take it personally...

 

[medic170]

Let up on CM. She's right you guys do have an inferiority complex. We don't really care. And tigress didn't justify her bias. She admits it was illogical, which speaks to your favor so flaming her is really dumb. Maybe that's why CM thinks you're being aggressive and nasty. Maybe you should apologize. I bet she'd overlook it.

Apologize for what? I thought I was nice, and as far as an inferiority complex goes, you don't even know me. I was accepted to MD schools, but even if I had not been, why would I have any reason to feel inferior? This thread really is a trolling thread and I think I am buying into it

BTW, I do truly apologize to anyone I offended, I sure was not trying to "flame" or act like I feel "inferior".

 

[phoenixsupra]

FWIW, I didn't really think he was flaming me...maybe a tiny bit harsh, but I didn't take it personally...

Great

 

[phoenixsupra]

Apologize for what? I thought I was nice, and as far as an inferiority complex goes, you don't even know me. I was accepted to MD schools, but even if I had not been, why would I have any reason to feel inferior? This thread really is a trolling thread and I think I am buying into it

BTW, I do truly apologize to anyone I offended, I sure was not trying to "flame" or act like I feel "inferior".

Cool, forget about it. So you don't have an IC. That's good. You have no reason to. But this isn't the first thread exactly like this that I've seen here. Maybe we can put a sticky in the DO forum saying "we respect you, we don't care what a bunch of ******* pre-meds think" or something. I'd like to see a DO thread actually explaining how OMM works so we could learn. Y'know, share ideas and learn from each other or something. Good luck medic.

 

[medic170]

Cool, forget about it. So you don't have an IC. That's good. You have no reason to. But this isn't the first thread exactly like this that I've seen here. Maybe we can put a sticky in the DO forum saying "we respect you, we don't care what a bunch of ******* pre-meds think" or something. I'd like to see a DO thread actually explaining how OMM works so we could learn. Y'know, share ideas and learn from each other or something. Good luck medic.

Now there is the most worth while and intelligent post I have seen in some time!

 

[dsblaha]

Totally true.

My dad graduated from UCI in 1979 and he has an MD not a DO.

For the record, I have never heard anyone mention a DO at school. I never even knew there was such a thing until I was nearly through the med school application process. To answer the question, allo students do not look down on DO students.

 

[katrinadams9]

I really don't think it's that much easier to get into DO schools anymore. They really try to make sure all their students are serious about why they want to be a DO. I applied to 3 DO schools, but I didn't send in any of the secondaries because they all wanted letters of recommendation from actual practicing DOs. I didn't know any DOs at the time, so I just didn't bother with the DO schools. The MD school applications on the other hand were much easier and a helluva lot shorter.

Call me a slacker or a cheapskate, but I applied to med school more than once and applied to a lot of schools each time. I didn't want to bother with the longer applications and save myself some money.

 

[DADDY]

oh yeah now that i now the lingo im really not trying to "troll"...i was really tryin to get an idea of what the current students thought...i know how the premeds think

 

[coolness]

All I know is that I look forward to learning and working alongside my MD counterparts.

 

[Eiko]

UC Irvine? if so are you sure, my dad's partner is an MD and she went there like 20-25 years ago

She could have been what you would call a little "m.d.", if she graduated from Irvine before 1977... but you're saying that she graduated from there in the 80's so she was most likely a regular MD. The little m.d.s were Californian D.O.s that were brought into... or was it called amelgorated into the AMA and given the MD title so that they could practice in California, during a time when California legislature refused to allow D.O.s licensure to practice within the state.

As for Irvine, it was most definitely an D.O. school previously. I think it turned MD in the early 1970s or late 1960s, but had most definitely become an MD school by 1976.

Personaly, I believe the whole anti-D.O. thing with pre-meds has to do with the need to of some people "to feel superior to" or "to gain more presitge than others" syndromes. If you notice most of those type people don't get into medical school (allopathic) anyway.

Granted, a few with that type of judgmental/ self-righteous attitude make it in, because they have exceptional scores... most people call them *ahem* gunners... but I believe they are known for treating their fellow allopathic classmates as being beneath them as well.

Perhaps, students that make it into DO schools had "lesser" average gpas and average mcat scores than the average allopathic student (notice I used "average" a lot), but that could possibly be that they had to work during school or had health problems which made it difficult to attend class or had to deal with extra hardships during their undergrad... but it doesn't mean they are dummer or less intelligent or less doctors than their allopathic counterparts, they're just different and had different circumstances.

If you compare an average class at say Harvard to an average class at say Kriksville, you'll find that for the most part the personality types are different. The ivy league school having the average student more wealthy and into research than the average kirksville student, who's school emphasizes the extroverted and general field of family practice. (Please note: I'm saying averages only. There are always exceptions to the rule... )

Are they better or worse than one another? That depends entirely on the individual, not the the type of degree.

 

[MWillie]

oh yeah now that i now the lingo im really not trying to "troll"...i was really tryin to get an idea of what the current students thought...i know how the premeds think

I find it interesting that all but one of your posts on SDN are in DO/MD threads, and 2 of your 3 threads have been locked.

 

[ndi_amaka]

Who cares??

Does anyone really believe that every MD student has a 4.0 and the D.O. students all have 3.0??

At the end of the day...if you can save a patients life and do your job why does it matter? You passed all the board exams, right? You got through your residency, right?

If the only way you respect other people is by what degree they have and what school they went to...then you are a sad sad saaaaaaaaaaaaaad human being.

 

[SaltySqueegee]

Sorry... maybe not so recently, but still recent in relation to UCI's long history back to the 19th century:


UCI's College of Medicine Website
"The 2,250 D.O.’s who held current physician and surgeon's licenses in the State of California were given the option of becoming M.D.’s, and all but 400 agreed. Pursuant to the reunification agreement between the CMA and COA, on May 24, 1961, the C.O.P.S. Board of Trustees passed a resolution to officially change the name of the school to the California College of Medicine (CCM), an accredited medical school affiliated with the Association of American Medical Colleges (AAMC). The American Medical Association (AMA) recognized CCM on February 15, 1962, with a letter of accreditation and approval of its four-year undergraduate program. Dean Grace Bell was the first individual to receive the M.D. degree from CCM on March 7, 1962, along with other faculty members. In June of 1962, CCM graduated its first class to be awarded the M.D. degree. "

 

[SaltySqueegee]

CCM is the school now known as UCI's School of Medicine.

Interesting?...?

 

[macdown]

I don't see DO's as different or lesser. A preceptor of mine is a DO and my personal doctor is also a DO. If they are competent I could care less what the letters after their name are.

 

[woowoo]

This isn't intended to flame anyone, but why do you think it is that D.O. schools are traditionally easier to get into? Don't get me wrong, I have worked in a hospital with several D.O.'s and if it didn't say so on their jacket you wouldn't have noticed a difference.

My own opinion is that they both will make good doctors, but sometimes it is harder to get into a certain specialty coming from D.O. It isn't impossible but definitely harder. Also, I do know of a couple of people who ended up applying and attending osteopathic school b/c they couldn't get into an allopathic school. I know my experience isn't true for everyone, but I don't know anyone who chose osteopath over allopath.

Regardless, in the end there isn't a hill of beans difference.

 

[medic170]

I don't know anyone who chose osteopath over allopath.
.

Gee, call me stupid, but I did. There you go, now you know someone.

BTW, the average numbers are SLIGHTLY lower because of :
1. Smaller applicant pool
2. DIFFERENT applicant pool (more non-trads like me) overall
3. Because of 1 and 2, it is slightly less competitve
4. Some DO schools are looking for different things than many MD schools

 

[mackaikai]

Md = Do, Do = Md

 

[woowoo]

Gee, call me stupid, but I did. There you go, now you know someone.


You were accepted to both DO and MD schools? Or you chose not to apply to MD schools. If you were accepted to both MD and DO schools and chose a DO school, I would say that you would be a very rare breed.

But if you chose not to apply to allopath. schools, I know plenty of people who have gone that route for various reasons.

 

[medic170]

Gee, call me stupid, but I did. There you go, now you know someone.


You were accepted to both DO and MD schools? Or you chose not to apply to MD schools. If you were accepted to both MD and DO schools and chose a DO school, I would say that you would be a very rare breed.

But if you chose not to apply to allopath. schools, I know plenty of people who have gone that route for various reasons.

Yes, I was accepted to both and chose a DO school. I may be in the minority, but certainly not a rare breed

 

[babyruth]

I help interview and vote upon new applicants. I know at the DO school we are encouraged to look at the individual in several different aspects. I know that our emphasis in looking at the applicant lies in the ECs, LORs, and how the person resonds and answers our questions. Grades and GPA are asides that are not really scrutinized at the interview because this has already been looked at when the student was invited to the interview. I know that when I applied to both allopthic and osteopathic schools, this wasn't the case, or seem the case. I guess what I am trying to say is that a more wholistic approach of scrutiny is utilized when looking at our applicants; though this is not generalizeable.

I know that I chose Osteopathy because of the emphasis on alternative medicine and the philosophy behind the medicine. Not to start another argument about whether mds have this philosophy or not, because I'm sure many do, but it was nice to have a foundation that is solid and unified among all osteopaths. Thanks.

 

[Fantasy Sports]

I help interview and vote upon new applicants. I know at the DO school we are encouraged to look at the individual in several different aspects. I know that our emphasis in looking at the applicant lies in the ECs, LORs, and how the person resonds and answers our questions. Grades and GPA are asides that are not really scrutinized at the interview because this has already been looked at when the student was invited to the interview. I know that when I applied to both allopthic and osteopathic schools, this wasn't the case, or seem the case. I guess what I am trying to say is that a more wholistic approach of scrutiny is utilized when looking at our applicants; though this is not generalizeable.

DOs can be cool, but more and more I see a lot of underhanded comments made by DOs against MDs. Usually they take the form of:

1. DOs are more holistic practioners-- implying that MDs only care about the disease, which isn't true at all. What is true is that MDs do a vast majority (99%) of the research (compared to DOs), and since research inherently breaks down a problem into a small testable hypothesis, I think this is where that myth gets started.

2. DOs are more wellrounded: also known as the "we look at the whole individual when interviewing bit"-- that is just kind of insulting. An interview is an interview is an interview. They already have the stats, and I never really talked about that in my interviews. What I did talk about were politics, economics, sports, books, movies, etc.

Those are the two main ones I saw on this thread (there are others that I hear from time to time elsewhere). I dont really care, but honestly, junk like that doesnt help foster better relations at all. And if we allopaths are so bad, then why do so many osteopaths try to match into allopathic programs to the point at which they want a combined match? It just doesn't make any sense. Do DOs think we are different or the same (and I dont want to hear DO = allopath + OMT, because I think we all know that is worthless)-- it has to be one or the other. But definitely stop with the underhanded slaps after the first half dozen posts on this thread were positive remarks made by allos.

 

[JohnDO]

DOs can be cool, but more and more I see a lot of underhanded comments made by DOs against MDs. Usually they take the form of:

Indeed, there are some who do take a swipe at MDs, but those same personalities are the MDs who would make an underhanded swipe at DOs. We try to keep them under control in the osteopathic forum, but once in awhile they slip out and make us look bad Everyone has the village idiot that embarasses the rest of the lot. Please don't judge us by them.

1. DOs are more holistic practioners-- implying that MDs only care about the disease, which isn't true at all.

We know, and I (and the majority of us) agree that this issue is far overplayed by a small minority.

DOs are more wellrounded: also known as the "we look at the whole individual when interviewing bit"

I think he meant that osteopathic schools place less emphasis on GPA/MCAT. I don't think the poster meant to imply that MD students aren't well-rounded. It was merely a statement about the admissions process, not a knock on MD students.

then why do so many osteopaths try to match into allopathic programs to the point at which they want a combined match? I

DOs are forced to decide between the MD match or the DO match. Thus, statistically, it works out better for many DOs to apply to the MD match. The details of this are pretty much outlined in the osteopathic forum. Furthermore, there aren't enough spots for us in AOA approved residencies.

Regardless, I do apologize that sometimes we are perceived that way.

 

[skypilot]

People might choose to go to DO schools based on location. Someone will be accepted to an MD school in Philly and DO school in Southern Cal and might choose Southern Cal because they want to study and practice there.

Or maybe they live in Maine and don't want to leave and there is no MD school there only DO. (UNECOM)