What's wrong with my application?

[Jaboi]

I'm a longtime lurker, first time poster. I applied to dental schools for the first time this year and was looking for some advice on what to do to improve my application if I have to reapply in June. I graduated from UF with a 3.89 GPA last year but didn't take my DAT till the end of July, so my application wasn't complete until ~end of August. I thought that getting everything turned in before September was still considered "on time", though I don't understand why dental schools have deadlines in December if they want ppl to complete their application in June/July. Anyways, I got a 21AA on the DAT which I was very proud of. I really thought that my GPA/DAT combo would be enough to at least get into a private school. So far, I've received interviews for Nova and LECOM. LECOM rejected me, without telling me why, and Nova put me on the waitlist. And UF, the school I graduated from, worked for, and did my volunteering, didn't even offer me an interview. So I am confused as to what I did wrong and how I can improve my chances if I have to reapply.

And just so I'm not leaving information out, I did apply to medical schools last year because I thought I wanted to be a physician, but once I started volunteering at the DMD clinic, I realized that I wanted to pursue dentistry instead. I have a gut feeling that this is the reason why I haven't been accepted to dental school. But please share your thoughts, I'm curious to what you all have to say and I don't know who else to talk to about this. I'm open to answer any questions, Thank you

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[NavyDDS1990]

I don't believe the fact that you applied to med school is why hindering you from gaining an acceptance to dental schools. You can actually work on this part a little further and make it into a positive aspect of your application. Make it sound in a compelling way.
Seeing that you have very strong GPA and DAT and still receiving only 2 invites is making me want to assume that you applied to very few schools or did not apply broad enough.
Where and how many schools did you apply to?

 

[predental21250]

How many shadowing hours do you have? How confident were you about your PS, LORs, extracurriculars?

 

[#cariology]

I feel the late application hindered your otherwise strong app. Perhaps you didn't have enough dental experience either. I'm guessing you only applied to schools in FL? You might want to reconsider that next year and expand your net a bit. If you've been gaining dental related experiences and apply on June 1st this upcoming cycle, you'll most likely find success. I doubt they care about the med school app.

 

[Jaboi]

Thanks for the reply. Turning my past med school prospects into a positive is a great idea, but explaining it seems a little embarrassing as I couldn't make up my mind between medicine and dentistry, I could honestly see myself do either one.

And you're right, I did not apply to too many schools because I thought OOS schools would be too expensive and would give preference to their own in state students. But looking back, I regret not applying to more schools. I applied to UF, Nova, LECOM, UNE, and University of Illinois at Chicago, but did not complete my secondary app for the reasons I said earlier.

 

[NavyDDS1990]

Thanks for the reply. Turning my past med school prospects into a positive is a great idea, but explaining it seems a little embarrassing as I couldn't make up my mind between medicine and dentistry, I could honestly see myself do either one.

And you're right, I did not apply to too many schools because I thought OOS schools would be too expensive and would give preference to their own in state students. But looking back, I regret not applying to more schools. I applied to UF, Nova, LECOM, UNE, and University of Illinois at Chicago, but did not complete my secondary app for the reasons I said earlier.

This upcoming cycle, remove UIC from your list as they give very very and ridiculously strong preference to in-state residents.
Expand your list next time and apply to more OOS schools, including private and OOS-friendly state schools.
Competition for dental schools is only getting more difficult and I would apply to at least 10 schools if I were you.

 

[Jaboi]

I feel the late application hindered your otherwise strong app. Perhaps you didn't have enough dental experience either. I'm guessing you only applied to schools in FL? You might want to reconsider that next year and expand your net a bit. If you've been gaining dental related experiences and apply on June 1st this upcoming cycle, you'll most likely find success. I doubt they care about the med school app.

I have 70 hours volunteering at the DMD clinic at UF. Is 70 hours too little?
And yes I definitely want to apply to more schools next time. Do you have any recommendations as to what schools I should look into, that give fair preference to OOS?

 

[toothdoctor123]

I'm a longtime lurker, first time poster. I applied to dental schools for the first time this year and was looking for some advice on what to do to improve my application if I have to reapply in June. I graduated from UF with a 3.89 GPA last year but didn't take my DAT till the end of July, so my application wasn't complete until ~end of August. I thought that getting everything turned in before September was still considered "on time", though I don't understand why dental schools have deadlines in December if they want ppl to complete their application in June/July. Anyways, I got a 21AA on the DAT which I was very proud of. I really thought that my GPA/DAT combo would be enough to at least get into a private school. So far, I've received interviews for Nova and LECOM. LECOM rejected me, without telling me why, and Nova put me on the waitlist. And UF, the school I graduated from, worked for, and did my volunteering, didn't even offer me an interview. So I am confused as to what I did wrong and how I can improve my chances if I have to reapply.

And just so I'm not leaving information out, I did apply to medical schools last year because I thought I wanted to be a physician, but once I started volunteering at the DMD clinic, I realized that I wanted to pursue dentistry instead. I have a gut feeling that this is the reason why I haven't been accepted to dental school. But please share your thoughts, I'm curious to what you all have to say and I don't know who else to talk to about this. I'm open to answer any questions, Thank you

You should have applied to Columbia. For some reason, our admissions committee loves UF. And, an interest in medicine is considered a positive thing here.

I have 70 hours volunteering at the DMD clinic at UF. Is 70 hours too little?

Yep there's the problem. Universal rule of thumb is 100 hours minimum; some schools require more than that.

 

[Jaboi]

How many shadowing hours do you have? How confident were you about your PS, LORs, extracurriculars?

No shadowing hours but I volunteered as a dental assistant at the dental college at UF for 2 semesters, accumulating 70 hours. And writing is not my strong suit but I thought my PS was good, I spent a long time on it and had it reviewed by friends and family. I thought my LORs were good too, 2 from science professors (1 strong relationship , the other not so much), 1 letter from a 4th year dental student whom I worked with during my 2 semesters working in the dmd clinic, and 1 letter from my dentist back home who is also a family friend. And I had some extracurriculars, but maybe I'm thinking they didn't look so good since none of them were dental related. I was the media director for 2 different pre-med clubs on campus and I've done a lot of videography work for the chemistry dept at UF

 

[#cariology]

I have 70 hours volunteering at the DMD clinic at UF. Is 70 hours too little?
And yes I definitely want to apply to more schools next time. Do you have any recommendations as to what schools I should look into, that give fair preference to OOS?

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/schools-that-are-in-state-applicants-only.791510/

Check out this thread (especially the spreadsheet) and search around SDN for information on where to apply. You should reapply to the Florida schools, a few OOS-friendly state schools, a few "cheaper" private schools, and NYU just for safe measure (although it's damn expensive and probably not worth it, lol) I also think you should get 100 hours of shadowing a general dentist. And to re-emphasize, have AADSAS submitted on June 1st.

 

[Jaboi]

You should have applied to Columbia. For some reason, our admissions committee loves UF. And, an interest in medicine is considered a positive thing here.

Yep there's the problem. Universal rule of thumb is 100 hours minimum; some schools require more than that.

ahh okay, damn I wish someone had told me that. I wanted to keep volunteering too, but I moved away from campus since I graduated and parking is $5/day. You think if I started volunteering again this summer to get to 100 hrs and changed nothing else, I would get it somewhere? Or would too little have changed since my previous application and therefore I wont get in anywhere?

 

[Jaboi]

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/schools-that-are-in-state-applicants-only.791510/

Check out this thread (especially the spreadsheet) and search around SDN for information on where to apply. You should reapply to the Florida schools, a few OOS-friendly state schools, a few "cheaper" private schools, and NYU just for safe measure (although it's damn expensive and probably not worth it, lol) I also think you should get 100 hours of shadowing a general dentist.

Okay thank you, all great ideas!

 

[Jaboi]

This upcoming cycle, remove UIC from your list as they give very very and ridiculously strong preference to in-state residents.
Expand your list next time and apply to more OOS schools, including private and OOS-friendly state schools.
Competition for dental schools is only getting more difficult and I would apply to at least 10 schools if I were you.

Yea good idea, thank you

 

[Alpha Centauri]

You didn't apply early enough IMO, and to too few schools. You may have also been to competitive for LECOM. Nova is pretty much a crapshoot with their waitlist, there are 100s on it and I don't understand why they interview that many to begin with. I, like you, got rejected w/o interview at UF which admittedly I am still salty about (even after writing the most lit letter of intent to them). My gpa is a bit lower than yours and I also had a higher DAT. Don't take it personally, that is just the game. On the bright side, nothing seems wrong with your profile. I would continue volunteering and spicing up your app. Take a gap year ,enjoy life, and apply in early June and snag those first round interview invites. Also, I would call up Dr. Sandow about your UF rejection.

 

[Jaboi]

You didn't apply early enough IMO, and to too few schools. You may have also been to competitive for LECOM. Nova is pretty much a crapshoot with their waitlist, there are 100s on it and I don't understand why they interview that many to begin with. I, like you, got rejected w/o interview at UF which admittedly I am still salty about (even after writing the most lit letter of intent to them). My gpa is a bit lower than yours and I also had a higher DAT. Don't take it personally, that is just the game. On the bright side, nothing seems wrong with your profile. I would continue volunteering and spicing up your app. Take a gap year ,enjoy life, and apply in early June and snag those first round interview invites. Also, I would call up Dr. Sandow about your UF rejection.

Too competitive for LECOM? I sent them a letter on intent after my interview as well as thank you notes to the ppl that interviewed me. I might have just had a bad interview, I didn't care for the group interview setting.

And I am taking a gap year currently, graduated last spring. I don't want to take another year off but I'm afraid my application wouldn't have changed enough from this current cycle. Does it look bad if all that has changed is that I get more shadowing hours from now till June?

And what would I say to Dr. Sandow? Should I call the admissions dept or her directly?

 

[Allons-y]

FL resident here. Going to Uf this fall.
I would call the admission office .... Not necessary Sandow. But then again, she intimidates me.
Our application is pretty similar (I hv lower GPA + higher DAT). Took my DAT on the last day of July so app didn't complete until end of August either.

Our main difference:
More volunteering (~200 at Shands Dental clinic)
More shadowing (~130 hours during college only)
And I applied to 16 school...

So maybe during your gap year, work on shadowing and volunteering. Also look at more OOS friendly schools to apply to.

 

[princessdentist]

You have a great app. I think based on what you said you should just increase your shadowing next year and apply to more schools! I would say at LEAST 10.

If you call LECOM they should give you feedback on your application. I was rejected as well (without interview) and was able to get some feedback! Good luck for next cycle=)

 

[Faefly]

Thanks for the reply. Turning my past med school prospects into a positive is a great idea, but explaining it seems a little embarrassing as I couldn't make up my mind between medicine and dentistry, I could honestly see myself do either one.

And you're right, I did not apply to too many schools because I thought OOS schools would be too expensive and would give preference to their own in state students. But looking back, I regret not applying to more schools. I applied to UF, Nova, LECOM, UNE, and University of Illinois at Chicago, but did not complete my secondary app for the reasons I said earlier.

5 schools only and you wonder why you didn't get in any dental school!

That was being too confident!

You don't have 4 GPA
You don't have more than 23+ DAT
It's true, you stat are great, but but you did want to go Medical schools and changed your mind later, so that added to the fact you didn't apply to many schools, plus applying late, which I would be doing as well , unfortunately I'll apply late, but I'll make sure to apply to 15 schools, I really don't want to risk it!

 

[Jaboi]

FL resident here. Going to Uf this fall.
I would call the admission office .... Not necessary Sandow. But then again, she intimidates me.
Our application is pretty similar (I hv lower GPA + higher DAT). Took my DAT on the last day of July so app didn't complete until end of August either.

Our main difference:
More volunteering (~200 at Shands Dental clinic)
More shadowing (~130 hours during college only)
And I applied to 16 school...

So maybe during your gap year, work on shadowing and volunteering. Also look at more OOS friendly schools to apply to.

Well congrats man, wish I was attending school with you this fall. When you listed your shands dental clinic volunteering hours, did you list them as volunteering or shadowing? Because it's technically both, but you can only choose 1 category.

 

[Jaboi]

You have a great app. I think based on what you said you should just increase your shadowing next year and apply to more schools! I would say at LEAST 10.

If you call LECOM they should give you feedback on your application. I was rejected as well (without interview) and was able to get some feedback! Good luck for next cycle=)

I called LECOM a few weeks after my interview and after ppl in my interview group were already getting acceptance letters, to get a status update. I spoke to Shannon, who was really nice and remembered me, and she said that they would not be offering me a spot this year. And I politely asked why and she didn't give me any feedback whatsoever, told me she didn't even understand why either. So I've been at a loss ever since, thinking I screwed up the interview or the medical school thing. But I guess I just need more shadowing hours

 

[princessdentist]

I called LECOM a few weeks after my interview and after ppl in my interview group were already getting acceptance letters, to get a status update. I spoke to Shannon, who was really nice and remembered me, and she said that they would not be offering me a spot this year. And I politely asked why and she didn't give me any feedback whatsoever, told me she didn't even understand why either. So I've been at a loss ever since, thinking I screwed up the interview or the medical school thing. But I guess I just need more shadowing hours

Wow thats so interesting! I am sorry maybe if you email Shanon to request feedback from the committee she can give you something

 

[nowaysurvey]

I hate to say it man, but admissions to graduate schools like medical and dental schools can sometimes be a crapshoot. I'm sure that there are way more competitive applicants (and probably 2X more less competitive students than you) than there are to seats for dental school, so at that point, I'm thinking competitive schools must do something else like flipping a coin between hundreds of applications that have similar applications. And to put it out there, you'll also see a good bit of applicants with less competitive stats than you getting accepted to schools too. So what I'm trying to say is, maybe you didn't do anything wrong but perhaps you just weren't lucky enough. The only way to put acceptance in your favor is by boosting your chances and applying to more schools (that will be friendly to your applicant status of course).

Judging from your responses, I'd definitely recommend upping your shadowing and volunteering (ones with a lot of patient interaction) hours. Definitely re-evaluate your PS again and maybe consider a committee letter + an individual letter this time around (that's what I did, could be a waste of time, but it should only help). Aug/Sept IMO is on the latter side of early, so I would recommend you submit your AADSAS ASAP (June/July) for your best chances.

Best of luck!

 

[Jaboi]

I hate to say it man, but admissions to graduate schools like medical and dental schools can sometimes be a crapshoot. I'm sure that there are way more competitive applicants (and probably 2X more less competitive students than you) than there are to seats for dental school, so at that point, I'm thinking competitive schools must do something else like flipping a coin between hundreds of applications that have similar applications. And to put it out there, you'll also see a good bit of applicants with less competitive stats than you getting accepted to schools too. So what I'm trying to say is, maybe you didn't do anything wrong but perhaps you just weren't lucky enough. The only way to put acceptance in your favor is by boosting your chances and applying to more schools (that will be friendly to your applicant status of course).

Judging from your responses, I'd definitely recommend upping your shadowing and volunteering (ones with a lot of patient interaction) hours. Definitely re-evaluate your PS again and maybe consider a committee letter + an individual letter this time around (that's what I did, could be a waste of time, but it should only help). Aug/Sept IMO is on the latter side of early, so I would recommend you submit your AADSAS ASAP (June/July) for your best chances.

Best of luck!

What is a committee letter and how would I go about obtaining one?

 

[periopocket]

Nothing wrong with application - reapply earlier and suck up to admins in mean time


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[Jaboi]

Nothing wrong with application - reapply earlier and suck up to admins in mean time


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how should I suck up to the admins? I've already called Nova three times since my interview in November to tell them I'm still interested

 

[periopocket]

how should I suck up to the admins? I've already called Nova three times since my interview in November to tell them I'm still interested

That's less than once a month! You should be calling at least once a month until it's over. What else do you have to loze?

Edit: if you've interviewed at nova and want to go there. Write them that Nova is your absolute dream program and that you will owe them for life! You talk that school up until you turn blue in the face...I've made miracles happen this way with lower stats.

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[Jaboi]

That's less than once a month! You should be calling at least once a month until it's over. What else do you have to loze?

Edit: if you've interviewed at nova and want to go there. Write them that Nova is your absolute dream program and that you will owe them for life! You talk that school up until you turn blue in the face...I've made miracles happen this way with lower stats.

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Yea I'm gonna call again in a couple weeks, I just don't want to annoy the guy. And that's not a bad idea lol should I say that in an email or over the phone?

 

[periopocket]

Yea I'm gonna call again in a couple weeks, I just don't want to annoy the guy. And that's not a bad idea lol should I say that in an email or over the phone?

Both ...and your right there's always a risk of annoyance. But you have to weigh the risk/benefit/reward....I had 4 private school offers and a deposit already down when I really started sucking up hard core to my own state school and a neighboring state school ....I got into the neighboring state school in like June before start and saved 170k

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[Jaboi]

Both ...and your right there's always a risk of annoyance. But you have to weigh the risk/benefit/reward....I had 4 private school offers and a deposit already down when I really started sucking up hard core to my own state school and a neighboring state school ....I got into the neighboring state school in like June before start and saved 170k

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wow congrats man. I wish my state school had offered me an interview, I'd be sucking up hard to them right now

 

[mroerdh22]

No shadowing hours but I volunteered as a dental assistant at the dental college at UF for 2 semesters, accumulating 70 hours. And writing is not my strong suit but I thought my PS was good, I spent a long time on it and had it reviewed by friends and family. I thought my LORs were good too, 2 from science professors (1 strong relationship , the other not so much), 1 letter from a 4th year dental student whom I worked with during my 2 semesters working in the dmd clinic, and 1 letter from my dentist back home who is also a family friend. And I had some extracurriculars, but maybe I'm thinking they didn't look so good since none of them were dental related. I was the media director for 2 different pre-med clubs on campus and I've done a lot of videography work for the chemistry dept at UF

No shadowing hours? You need shadowing hours regardless if you volunteered as an assistant. I am an RDH (6.5 years) and I still did 150 shadowing hours just to show that I was truly interested in giving my all to this process and knowing more than just general Dentistry. Both interviews I had, I was asked about my shadowing. Also, 70 volunteer hours in one scope will not cut it. Most schools want to see that number at 100 or greater and show involvement in your community. Have you considered maybe volunteering at a homeless shelter or maybe big brother/sister program to get out in your community? To me, the lack of shadowing hours and minimal volunteer hours probably really hurt you in this process.

Like others have said, I don't think your application to med school hurt you and that it could actually be a positive aspect for your application. You didn't apply to enough schools and maybe your PS could have been stronger. I think if you take the advice on this thread and try again next year, you'll have multiple offers.

 

[nowaysurvey]

What is a committee letter and how would I go about obtaining one?

A committee letter is a letter (could be a single letter, a composite of letters, or an evaluation, etc) put together by the pre-health/academic committee at your university. The makeup of the committee letter will vary from school to school, but its generally preferred over individual letters by dental schools. To go about obtaining one, you first need to see if your school has a pre-health/academic committee and see if they write committee letters. Usually they'll want 3-4 letters/evaluations from individual professors/mentors/dentist/etc and they make ask you for a personal interview/evaluation. Once all of the required material is turned in, they'll put everything together and send it to AADSAS. It takes up 3 of your 4 slots (for LORs) on your AADSAS application, so you can also add a individual letter along with the committee letter to your application. Just a heads up, if you go about applying for one, you need to do so ASAP. Many committees have early deadlines in order to obtain one.

Best of luck~

 

[Allons-y]

When you listed your shands dental clinic volunteering hours, did you list them as volunteering or shadowing? Because it's technically both, but you can only choose 1 category.

I put it under shadowing and specify that I was volunteering. From what I remember, there was a little checkbox for you to specify...