Will/When we ever go back to not needing to wear masks in a hospital?

[ooh a bean]

Post COVID-19 pandemic, do you think there will be a world in which we don't need to wear masks in a hospital minus obvious areas like OR, etc.? Or do you think that this pandemic will prompt hospitals to mandate masks as much as possible even when things return back to normal?

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[IMGASMD]

Post COVID-19 pandemic, do you think there will be a world in which we don't need to wear masks in a hospital minus obvious areas like OR, etc.? Or do you think that this pandemic will prompt hospitals to mandate masks as much as possible even when things return back to normal?

It’ll go back.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Post COVID-19 pandemic, do you think there will be a world in which we don't need to wear masks in a hospital minus obvious areas like OR, etc.? Or do you think that this pandemic will prompt hospitals to mandate masks as much as possible even when things return back to normal?

Once there is an effective vaccine, everything will go back to normal.

 

[drducky.]

I really hope so. It’s so hard to me to talk when I have a mask on.

 

[jamaica jan sun princess]

When we're in the morgue... Expect to wear a mask in-public for the rest of your life.

 

[longhaul3]

It's hard to imagine that just a few months ago we used to wear our masks, even N95s, for a single patient encounter and then throw them away. I probably wore an N95 once a year before March.

 

[RangerBob]

My best optimistic guess is maybe around next Christmas. Probably later. I'm not an ID doc and really just sort of pulling that date out of a hat, but to keep this from getting worse things can't go back to normal until enough people have received the vaccine, or been exposed, so that we have enough herd immunity to blunt new outbreaks.

Maybe a vaccine is available early next year. But it's going to take a long time to distribute that to those who want it. And it won't be 100% effective, nor does anywhere near 100% of the population want it. So I doubt we'll get herd immunity from the vaccine alone. COVID-19 is going to be around a while.

Things will go back to normal. But it will likely be at least a year or two until we feel everything is "normal" again.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

When we're in the morgue... Expect to wear a mask in-public for the rest of your life.

You realize that a few years after the Spanish flu, which killed 50 million people, they were basically back to normal, right?

 

[7331poas]

You realize that a few years after the Spanish flu, which killed 50 million people, they were basically back to normal, right?

That was over a century ago lmao

 

[Type2Fiber]

When will people stop talking about masks? November 4th

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

That was over a century ago lmao

So?

 

[7331poas]

So?

So developments in epidemiology and modern medicine may have changed the equation in the last century?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

So developments in epidemiology and modern medicine may have changed the equation in the last century?

In what way that would have us still wearing masks longer than the 1918 flu pandemic?

Be specific.

 

[Wordead]

In what way that would have us still wearing masks longer than the 1918 flu pandemic?

Be specific.

Lawsuits

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Lawsuits

Nah, otherwise we'd already be seeing them.

 

[Wordead]

Nah, otherwise we'd already be seeing them.

I guess more specifically fear of lawsuits and idiot admins instituting rules.

Kinda like basically everything the joint commission does.

 

[Lawpy]

My best optimistic guess is maybe around next Christmas. Probably later. I'm not an ID doc and really just sort of pulling that date out of a hat, but to keep this from getting worse things can't go back to normal until enough people have received the vaccine, or been exposed, so that we have enough herd immunity to blunt new outbreaks.

Maybe a vaccine is available early next year. But it's going to take a long time to distribute that to those who want it. And it won't be 100% effective, nor does anywhere near 100% of the population want it. So I doubt we'll get herd immunity from the vaccine alone. COVID-19 is going to be around a while.

Things will go back to normal. But it will likely be at least a year or two until we feel everything is "normal" again.

If i'm vaccinated, am i forced to wear a mask?

 

[jamaica jan sun princess]

You realize that a few years after the Spanish flu, which killed 50 million people, they were basically back to normal, right?

Imagine the hundreds of millions of lives that would’ve been saved during subsequent viral outbreaks if we’d adopted a public mask mandate after/during the Spanish flu.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

That was over a century ago lmao

Is there an argument there?

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Imagine the hundreds of millions of lives that would’ve been saved during subsequent viral outbreaks if we’d adopted a public mask mandate after/during the Spanish flu.

Imagine the hundreds of millions of lives that would be saved if we all just wore masks out all the time, as a species, forever. Is that what you’re suggesting?

 

[RangerBob]

If i'm vaccinated, am i forced to wear a mask?

Good question. I have no idea. I'm guessing official recommendations will depend on the efficacy of the vaccine. But I wouldn't be surprised if we still have to mask.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Good question. I have no idea. I'm guessing official recommendations will depend on the efficacy of the vaccine. But I wouldn't be surprised if we still have to mask.

I mean I would probably wear one anyway for at least a while to see how efficacious it is, even if we aren’t required to.

 

[7331poas]

In what way that would have us still wearing masks longer than the 1918 flu pandemic?

Be specific.

The fact that we can now develop vaccines that lower the chance of infection and mortality?

 

[You shall know the Truth]

If i'm vaccinated, am i forced to wear a mask?

Yes

 

[Lawpy]

Yes

why

 

[You shall know the Truth]

why

The perception of safety, pt are still going to demand they feel safe regardless of a vaccine. Efficacy has to be demonstrable and initially it won’t be so a mask will be The option of choice

 

[7331poas]

Do you guys think interviews next cycle will take place without masks?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

The fact that we can now develop vaccines that lower the chance of infection and mortality?

Why would that result in wearing masks for longer?

 

[Osminog]

In what way that would have us still wearing masks longer than the 1918 flu pandemic?

Be specific.

The Spanish flu spread much, much more quickly than COVID-19 is spreading today. That’s because during the time of the Spanish flu, people had awful hygiene, usually couldn’t work/socialize from home, and often didn’t have direct access to up-to-date public health information in the absence of television broadcasting and the internet. On top of all of this, WWI was going on, allowing for quick spread on an international level.

The Spanish flu rapidly swept through entire communities, killing the vulnerable and generating immune resistance in everybody else. With the precautions we’re taking today to “flatten the curve” (e.g., wearing masks and social distancing), we’re able to slow the spread of COVID-19 in order to keep hospital patient loads reasonable and preserve medical resources. Also, this approach buys time, so that we have fewer deaths prior to the development of a treatment/vaccine. The downside of slowing the spread is that recovery takes longer; as you flatten a curve, it tends to get wider.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

The Spanish flu spread much, much more quickly than COVID-19 is spreading today. That’s because during the time of the Spanish flu, people had awful hygiene, usually couldn’t work/socialize from home, and often didn’t have direct access to up-to-date public health information in the absence of television broadcasting and the internet. On top of all of this, WWI was going on, allowing for quick spread on an international level.

The Spanish flu rapidly swept through entire communities, killing the vulnerable and generating immune resistance in everybody else. With the precautions we’re taking today to “flatten the curve” (e.g., wearing masks and social distancing), we’re able to slow the spread of COVID-19 in order to keep hospital patient loads reasonable and preserve medical resources. Also, this approach buys time, so that we have fewer deaths prior to the development of a treatment/vaccine. The downside of slowing the spread is that recovery takes longer; as you flatten a curve, it tends to get wider.

OK, I see where you're going with this.

Yes, in the absence of everything else this would make sense. But with the 10+ candidates in the pipeline, I find it very unlikely that we won't have a vaccine that does at worst about the same as the flu vaccine - less likely to get sick and less sick if you do get sick. It'll take time to get that to everyone that wants it. But once that's done, I think universal masking should start to go away.

 

[Osminog]

OK, I see where you're going with this.

Yes, in the absence of everything else this would make sense. But with the 10+ candidates in the pipeline, I find it very unlikely that we won't have a vaccine that does at worst about the same as the flu vaccine - less likely to get sick and less sick if you do get sick. It'll take time to get that to everyone that wants it. But once that's done, I think universal masking should start to go away.

As it stands, less than half of Americans say “yes” when asked if they would get a government-approved coronavirus vaccine. And it’s unclear how effective the “winner” vaccine that gets mass produced and distributed will ultimately be. If it’s as effective as, say, the current flu vaccine, then it’s not going to come even remotely close to ending the pandemic. In a recent study, researchers predicted that, assuming 75% of the population gets the new COVID-19 vaccine (big assumption), it would only be able to extinguish the pandemic and eliminate a need for preventative social measures if it had 80% efficacy. In the world of vaccines, this is a very high bar, and we’re unlikely to reach it at any point in the near future. More likely than not, masks are going to be the norm for quite a while.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

As it stands, less than half of Americans say “yes” when asked if they would get a government-approved coronavirus vaccine. And it’s unclear how effective the “winner” vaccine that gets mass produced and distributed will ultimately be. If it’s as effective as, say, the current flu vaccine, then it’s not going to come even remotely close to ending the pandemic. In a recent study, researchers predicted that, assuming 75% of the population gets the new COVID-19 vaccine (big assumption), it would only be able to extinguish the pandemic and eliminate a need for preventative social measures if it had 80% efficacy. In the world of vaccines, this is a very high bar, and we’re unlikely to reach it at any point in the near future. More likely than not, masks are going to be the norm for quite a while.

They're looking at it the wrong way in that study. Barring an MMR-level vaccine (which I think is incredibly unlikely), we aren't going to eradicate COVID. This thing is here to stay, especially since historically even natural immunity to coronaviruses isn't all that long lasting.

What we can hope to accomplish is a vaccine that cuts the mortality/severe illness numbers way down (which is basically what the flu vaccine accomplishes). We get those morbidity/mortality numbers down, this actually could become just another flu.

 

[Lawpy]

As it stands, less than half of Americans say “yes” when asked if they would get a government-approved coronavirus vaccine. And it’s unclear how effective the “winner” vaccine that gets mass produced and distributed will ultimately be. If it’s as effective as, say, the current flu vaccine, then it’s not going to come even remotely close to ending the pandemic. In a recent study, researchers predicted that, assuming 75% of the population gets the new COVID-19 vaccine (big assumption), it would only be able to extinguish the pandemic and eliminate a need for preventative social measures if it had 80% efficacy. In the world of vaccines, this is a very high bar, and we’re unlikely to reach it at any point in the near future. More likely than not, masks are going to be the norm for quite a while.

why would masks remain the norm if treatments and vaccines are improving rapidly?

The perception of safety, pt are still going to demand they feel safe regardless of a vaccine. Efficacy has to be demonstrable and initially it won’t be so a mask will be The option of choice

Ok i agree with wearing masks in hospitals even with vaccines for reasons relating to safety. A related talking point on thread is about wearing masks as a norm and universal masking. Do those become unnecessary by vaccines?

 

[Mr. Nightmare]

why would masks remain the norm if treatments and vaccines are improving rapidly?



Ok i agree with wearing masks in hospitals even with vaccines for reasons relating to safety. A related talking point on thread is about wearing masks as a norm and universal masking. Do those become unnecessary by vaccines?

Eventually. Herd immunity has to be developed before we can reach that point. Mask wearing and social distancing will be the new normal for awhile.

 

[Osminog]

why would masks remain the norm if treatments and vaccines are improving rapidly?

Because tens of millions of Americans are at high risk for severe complications, and a modestly effective vaccine wouldn’t change that aspect of the situation. For the sake of managing hospital patient load and medical resources, social precautions would still need to be taken.

What we can hope to accomplish is a vaccine that cuts the mortality/severe illness numbers way down (which is basically what the flu vaccine accomplishes). We get those morbidity/mortality numbers down, this actually could become just another flu.

Unless a much more effective treatment comes out that alleviates its most severe symptoms, COVID-19 will never be “just another flu.” We’ve known for months that it’s more contagious and more deadly than the flu.

I have to confess that I don’t share your optimism. The common flu has been around for millennia, and there’s been a massive profit motive to come up with treatments for it—and yet the best humankind has come up with are Tamiflu and a few other lousy, barely-useful medications. I don’t see any reason to think we’ll be more successful with finding a highly effective treatment for COVID-19.

 

[Lawpy]

Because tens of millions of Americans are at high risk for severe complications, and a modestly effective vaccine wouldn’t change that aspect of the situation. For the sake of managing hospital patient load and medical resources, social precautions would still need to be taken.

I mean we already have treatments like steroids and antibodies being highly effective for high risk groups. Even vitamin D is viewed highly favorably. So it looks like unmasking can happen sooner than thought

Still i agree wearing masks is safer. It's requiring mask wearing that i have concerns

Eventually. Herd immunity has to be developed before we can reach that point. Mask wearing and social distancing will be the new normal for awhile.

Herd immunity would've probably been reached by now if no one wore masks or distanced right? It's just that deaths would be in millions unless everyone started boosting their immunity through various means

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Unless a much more effective treatment comes out that alleviates its most severe symptoms, COVID-19 will never be “just another flu.” We’ve known for months that it’s more contagious and more deadly than the flu.

I have to confess that I don’t share your optimism. The common flu has been around for millennia, and there’s been a massive profit motive to come up with treatments for it—and yet the best humankind has come up are Tamiflu and a few other lousy, barely-useful medications. I don’t see any reason to think we’ll be more successful with finding a highly effective treatment for COVID-19.

I don't expect us to come up with a COVID treatment. We suck at treatment for viral infections. What I expect is a vaccine with roughly similar efficacy to the flu vaccine. If we can pull that off, then yes this does become much more like the flu.

The problem with a comparison is that we haven't really seen the flu without a vaccine in a very very long time. For instance, in 2018 49% of people got the flu shot. So basically half of all Americans. Now do I think COVID is worse than even a completely unvaccinated flu? Sure, the math seems to support that. But, if we can get a vaccine of similar efficacy it becomes much closer to the flu. Keep in mind, the vaccine reduces your changes of catching the flu by around 50%. Decreases risk of hospitalization and death by around 50% each. Decent evidence that you are less likely to infect others if you had the vaccine but still get sick.

So between that, and the fact that in another year I expect a solid 20% of Americans to have had this... I'll be much less concerned about this. It'll still be a problem, but an order of magnitude less than it is now.

 

[You shall know the Truth]

why would masks remain the norm if treatments and vaccines are improving rapidly?



Ok i agree with wearing masks in hospitals even with vaccines for reasons relating to safety. A related talking point on thread is about wearing masks as a norm and universal masking. Do those become unnecessary by vaccines?

No, for the reason stated above, the perception of safety. Americans like control and wearing a mask fits the bill. I imagine the younger people will, but many people will want to feel safe. A mask is tangible and psychological. People will be unable to prove they have had the vaccine, therefore establishments will require some sort of verification. A mask circumvents the need to carry proof of vaccination.

 

[Mass Effect]

As it stands, less than half of Americans say “yes” when asked if they would get a government-approved coronavirus vaccine.

Does that surprise anyone? When the virus has been politicized and you hear recordings of the president admitting he lied about its seriousness, does that really inspire confidence in any vaccine that comes out? And on the other side of the aisle, you have naysayers who don't even think COVID exists, from some who simply question the seriousness of it to legit congressional candidates who pose questions about how odd it is that only Republicans seem to get COVID, as if it's some sort of Dem conspiracy to get Reps sick.

I for one am not surprised that less than half of us are eager for a vaccine.

 

[Mass Effect]

I mean we already have treatments like steroids and antibodies being highly effective for high risk groups. Even vitamin D is viewed highly favorably. So it looks like unmasking can happen sooner than thought

Just because we have steroids and antibodies doesn't mean unmasking is on the horizon anytime soon. Certainly not before a vaccine.

The other thing about COVID besides the mortality rate and how contagious it is is that we still don't know much about long-term outcomes, even among those with moderate illness let alone severe.

Still i agree wearing masks is safer. It's requiring mask wearing that i have concerns

Think of it like a seat belt.

 

[Tangerine123]

Imagine the hundreds of millions of lives that would’ve been saved during subsequent viral outbreaks if we’d adopted a public mask mandate after/during the Spanish flu.

Well, the market should addapt faster and create new environmental friendly masks. Current disposable masks are disastrous to the environment. If you want this to go indefinetely then there will be a breaking point where this represents a greater threat.

 

[jamaica jan sun princess]

Well, the market should addapt faster and create new environmental friendly masks. Current disposable masks are disastrous to the environment. If you want this to go indefinetely then there will be a breaking point where this represents a greater threat.

If we had adopted a mask mandate after the Spanish Flu, I’m sure we’d have much more environmentally friendly N95 lint masks by now.

 

[Tenk]

Hospital protocols are generally pretty conservative. I expect it will be mandatory for a few years at least.