Wisconsin Protests

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nuevaburra

Wisconsin c/o 2016!!
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*disclaimer* political opinions to follow...

This may be a little off-topic, but I just want to put a shout-out / plug for the the protests currently taking place in Madison, WI.

Anyone considering Wisconsin as a vet school or a place to work should be concerned about this. The proposed bill would take away many of the collective bargaining rights of state workers, effectively destroying unions for state workers.

This includes veterinarians and technicians at state labs and, as of now, at the vet school. This is important because it would not only be very punitive for the hard-working people already in these positions, but it definitely has the potential to impact future recruitment.

I think that this bill will harm the vet school, the university, and the state, and I encourage anyone who cares about Wisconsin or is interested in a future here as a student or vet to contact Governor Walker's office govgeneral@wisconsin.gov and tell him what you think! Of course, if you disagree with me, then I encourage you also to contact him. Because this is a democracy and we have free speech, and yay for polite political discourse! 👍

I am not sure how frowned upon politics is in this forum, but I do believe that this is something that will directly impact the cost and quality of education in Wisconsin and so is relevant to many of us.

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It's hard for me to be polite considering how much of a psycho that I think Scott Walker is, but I will try.

I don't think this bill had anything to do with saving the state money. It is about breaking down the unions so that when the state workers can't possibly do their jobs for the amount that they will be paid, then he can say that we need to start privatizing state jobs. Not only will that cost the state way more money (see privatization of the prison system), but workers will be compensated less, and it will nicely line Walker's own pocket with lots of favors from the companies that will take over.

The unions realize that the state needs to cut corners wherever they can, which is why they have already made collective decisions to take pay cuts, furlough, etc. Taking away the bargaining rights of the unions is just another right-wing attack on the hard-working American people.

I don't know how much effect this bill will have because I think people are too angry about what Walker is trying to do and he will never get a second term, so hopefully we can get in a governor that will restore worker's rights instead of take them away.
 
Mixed feelings, let it be a state wide vote. Unions can do some good, but they can also do some harm. Are the professional positions in the state of Wisconsin unionized? In the states I have worked in, the professional positions were exept (not eligible for unionization.)

Unionization has some benefits (collective bargaining) but it also has some defects (time vs merit based.) I have only worked a couple of unionized positions, and in those that I worked in I felt the union was broken or corrupt and would rather have dealt directly with the employer.
 
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Wow... I heard about this from friends, but didn't know it had reached this point! As someone who used to live in Madison, and worked for the UW, I cannot begin to fathom what a full dissolve of the state union would do for not only the UW, but the state in general.

I realize that there are economic issues in WI, just like everywhere else, but to end the benefits completely would likely place a HUGE economic burden on those who would be affected given that the salaries are lower than elsewhere in order to compensate for the generous benefits. And the thought of the UW-Madison being removed from the UW eduction system makes me physically ill.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. My time in 'Mad Town' was some of the best of my life and I will always consider it my second home. I will keep good thoughts that cooler heads prevail and a cooperative agreement can be reached.
 
I work for UW right now. I don't mind having to pay more in benefits (part of the proposed bill) because I only pay $15/mo for good coverage. Taking away collective bargaining though? That's f***ed.

That being said, I live a few blocks from the capitol, and all these darned protesters keep taking my friggin PARKING!!! Grrrr ha

Oh, and if my union strikes, I don't get a paycheck. No choice in the matter. Yay.

Can you tell I'm not a very political person? I used to be, then I moved to Madison. 😛
 
I thought it was cute how the 3 unions (law enforcement, firefighters and I forget the 3rd...) exempted from Walker's proposal are the 3 unions who supported him in the last election.

And how there was a predicted (albeit small) surplus in the Wisconsin budget until Walker gave businesses tax cuts shortly after being inaugurated.

Rachel Maddow had a good op-ed piece recently about this that's been making the facebook rounds for those interested. But I'm trying to stay out of political conversations on the internet because I get a little too involved...😛
 
I would be a lot more upset about this if I wasn't about to move out of Wisconsin. But I'm still reasonably concerned. :/ My siblings have been out of school the past couple of days because the teachers won't come in. Thankfully I don't live close enough to the capitol to be affected by the hoards of people.
 
I really don't know enough about the situation to have an opinion. But I *do* know my high school gym teacher earned well beyond six figures (and this was back 12 years or so ago. I can only imagine what he makes now).

And yes, they had an awfully strong union 🙂
 
Regardless of how you feel about politics, this bill will affect a huge number of people in Wisconsin including anyone planning on attending UW-Madison's vet school. We actually just had a Q and A session today with the vet school dean so he could dispel rumors and answer questions surrounding everything that is going on.

One possible outcome is that UW-Madison may separate from the UW system and become its own entity. (The chancellor of UW-Madison has been meeting with the governor to make a deal). This would definitely cause drastic changes.

My point, however, is that there a million what-ifs in this situation and no one is really sure what will happen. So, I personally do not think this should be a factor of how you choose where to go to vet school.
 
I really don't know enough about the situation to have an opinion. But I *do* know my high school gym teacher earned well beyond six figures (and this was back 12 years or so ago. I can only imagine what he makes now).

And yes, they had an awfully strong union 🙂

In Wisconsin, the average teacher salary is 40-50k. And they work hard for that. Many university workers are also union, and people with advanced science degrees (veterinarians, for instance) could be making twice as much money and working fewer hours in the private sector.

I don't mind paying extra for my awesome benefits, or taking more furlough days, but taking away the rights of teachers and nurses to bargain for benefits (the good benefits counterbalance the **** pay) is just punitive.
 
It's really hard for me to not use this as an opportunity to persuade people not to go to UW Madison. I sure could use less competition. :meanie:

My mom is a high school chemistry/forensics teacher in NY and while I don't know exactly what she makes, I know it is way less than $100k. How on earth does a gym teacher come to make that much? No offense, but c'mon, it's GYM! Was it at a private school by any chance?
 
It's really hard for me to not use this as an opportunity to persuade people not to go to UW Madison. I sure could use less competition. :meanie:

My mom is a high school chemistry/forensics teacher in NY and while I don't know exactly what she makes, I know it is way less than $100k. How on earth does a gym teacher come to make that much? No offense, but c'mon, it's GYM! Was it at a private school by any chance?
I can't say for sure, but if I had to guess I'd say he was probably a coach as well, and whatever he coached was a money maker for the school.
 
I just talked to some friends out there and got some 'scoop'. All I can say is that the state government has their heads stuck up their butts but good!!

The unions offered to give up benefits and 'they' rejected it because 'they' refuse to take collective bargaining (aka killing the unions) off the table?!?! This bill will not only take away the rights of the unions, but will cause sweeping change (not for the better) to things like Badger Care and the state education system. I have only one thing to say:

ON WISCONSIN!!
 
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i just talked to some friends out there and got some 'scoop'. All i can say is that the state government has their heads stuck up their butts but good!!

The unions offered to give up benefits and 'they' rejected it because 'they' refuse to take collective bargaining (aka killing the unions) off the table?!?! This bill will not only take away the rights of the unions, but will cause sweeping change (not for the better) to things like badger care and the state education system. I have only one thing to say:

on wisconsin!!

love it!
 
I have been following this really closely. They are trying to push through similar legislation in OK and it is likely to pass. If the law passes in Wisconsin it will set a scary precedent for the rest of the nation. The unions have said they agree to pay extra for benefits and pensions if they will be able to collectively bargain for their wages and yet the governor says no. As the wife of a unioned firefighter, it scares me to think what life will be like when my husband and his coworkers won't be able to collectively bargain for their wages. I applaud the union workers for standing up for themselves and what they believe is right.
 
One possible outcome is that UW-Madison may separate from the UW system and become its own entity. (The chancellor of UW-Madison has been meeting with the governor to make a deal). This would definitely cause drastic changes.

My point, however, is that there a million what-ifs in this situation and no one is really sure what will happen. So, I personally do not think this should be a factor of how you choose where to go to vet school.

I am slightly out of the loop on the whole Wisconsin issue as well, I have been trying to follow it on CNN, but I don't have cable so its hard to get daily news. So sorry if this question sounds dumb, but did they explain what would cause the splitting of the schools? Would one school become private?

I have mixed feelings on unions as well. In one hand they have their uses and have stood up for workers rights and have been able to improve work place conditions and wages but then on the other hand they can be trouble some by preventing the firing of poor employees or demanding inflated wages for rudimentary tasks (here I am thinking of teacher and auto unions).

I don't know if unions still have place in todays economy, but at the same time I don't know if they should be dissolved. I guess right now I will have my foot on both sides of the pasture.
 
Here's the email I got that appears to be considering this "separate entity" idea. See if you can figure it out. Ulgh, political speak.

Dear Members of the Campus Community,

The past week has been marked by passionate reactions to the release of the
state budget repair bill last Friday. You have seen the various communications
on that bill and its potential impact on our campus.

During the past couple of days, media attention has also begun to focus on next
Tuesday's release of the governor's 2011-13 biennial budget. I write to correct
some of the misinformation in the media and on the rumor mill about the New
Badger Partnership and the process through which it has been advanced.

1. I have been promoting an integrated case for greater flexibility for more
than a year.

2. UW System has been advocating for flexibility for a very long time with a
number of governors of different parties, without significant success.

3. I have said repeatedly that all three gubernatorial candidates expressed
interest in and support for the basic premises set forth in the argument for
flexibility. In 2011, lack of interest in moving forward with flexibility is a
recipe for even greater economic pain.

4. In late December, members of the governor-elect's team asked for a meeting at
which they expressed ongoing interest in flexibility for UW-Madison. They also
announced interest in exploring a public authority model.

5. In response to hypothetical questions posed by the governor's team, we
provided responses in a memo dated Jan. 7, 2011. That memo contains no
decisions. It provides answers to questions we were asked about what it would
take to offset 75 percent of a $50 million cut with tuition; it states
unequivocally that the tuition increases required to offset 75 percent of a $50
million cut would be unacceptable to us. We made very tentative suggestions
about other ways to deal with such a cut. We made no decisions or commitments
about tuition rates or about anything else.

6. Neither the governor's team nor the UW-Madison administration made any
commitments to public authority status or to any other change of that sort at
the meetings cited in the memo, nor did they or we agree to any particular cut
or tuition numbers. Meetings in January were exploratory.

7. In the meantime, as you know, we have worked with representatives of
on-campus constituents on the principles that would guide discussions with the
governor's office.

8. In the absence of a strong, timely system-wide proposal on behalf of all the
institutions, my staff and I continued working with the governor's staff on
their suggested approach to UW-Madison.

9. I made President Reilly aware of the fact that we had met with the governor's
staff and had been asked for information. I did not share the content of the
exchanges that ensued. I believed and still believe that it was the governor's
prerogative to speak with system leadership about what he was willing to
consider for the system and for UW-Madison. I was told that the governor's staff
had input from system back in January and had let President Reilly know they
were open to ideas, and were considering a different approach for UW-Madison.

10. Our advocacy for greater flexibility and fewer layers of bureaucracy has
always had as its goal the preservation of UW-Madison's world-class quality at a
time of enormous fiscal challenge. In our discussions, we have consistently
emphasized the importance of flexibility for the other universities in the
system. I do not agree with those who say that changes in the administration of
the campuses will damage the state. The state will be irreparably damaged if the
universities in the system deteriorate because of significant budget cuts and
the absence of new tools. Innovations in structure are essential to avoiding
that damage. The merits of the campuses' argument for appropriate levels of
flexibility and more decision-making ability on the local level outweigh
defenses of the existing administrative set-up, in my view.

11. Regardless of the administrative structure with which we end up, UW-Madison
will not only honor all its joint programs and partnerships with other system
institutions, it will enhance them, including transfer programs, educational and
research collaborations, and shared outreach commitments.

Our interest in the public authority status is based on its potential to help us
realize the principles that we established in the New Badger Partnership:

1. The state needs a world-class research university that offers education to
its citizens, attracts talent from around the world, promotes the ability to
think analytically and synthetically, conducts first-rate research, and applies
its discoveries to solving society's most urgent problems. It needs a research
university that supports existing industries and turns discovery into innovation
and job creation.

2. UW-Madison needs new tools if it is to retain and enhance its quality and its
capacity for innovation in service of the public.

3. Removing excess bureaucratic layers is critical to the university's ability
to fulfill its mission.

4. Every region in the world is rushing to establish a major research university
because of the value of those universities in a knowledge-based economy.
Wisconsin needs to preserve the one it has.

Going forward:

1. I believe that Governor Walker will propose public authority status for
UW-Madison in his budget bill, when it is released on Tuesday, Feb. 22. I also
believe he supports greater flexibility for other universities in the system.

2. We will provide whatever information and clarity about the bill and its
implications as soon as we can. Please watch for updates at <budget.wisc.edu>
and <newbadgerpartnership.wisc.edu>.

3. During the next several months, the campus community will have the
opportunity to work with the administration on features of a potentially new
model.


Chancellor Biddy Martin
 
This thread has become too political and needs to be deleted.
 
Thanks Bacci what a confusing email! I wonder what this greater flexibility is?
 
This thread has become too political and needs to be deleted.

How is this any more political than the lengthy threads we have about animal rights vs. welfare or veterinary legislation issues? I don't think there are any rules about political topics as long as they stay civil...
 
I can't say for sure, but if I had to guess I'd say he was probably a coach as well, and whatever he coached was a money maker for the school.

I really don't know enough about the situation in WI to make any sort of intelligent comment on that, but it always hits a sore spot with me when people complain about how much teachers make. I agree with I2vet's guess about this teacher probably being a coach, probably year round. I just checked the salary schedule for the district where I teach and salaries top out at $81,000 after 28 years of teaching and a PhD. Most teachers do not have a PhD, nor have they taught for 28 years...

/mini-rant
 
Thanks Bacci what a confusing email! I wonder what this greater flexibility is?

Right? As I read it I kept thinking she would start to explain things in more detail, but instead it just remained a completely useless and vague email disguised as something informative. So frustrating. Or maybe I've just been out of undergrad for too long, ha.
 
Are the professional positions in the state of Wisconsin unionized?

I don't think so. I think few, if any, professors/instructors at vet schools are unionized. However, the vet. techs, staff and secretaries are in unions at several schools. But I don't know the specific details for Wisc.
 
I have mixed feelings on unions as well. In one hand they have their uses and have stood up for workers rights and have been able to improve work place conditions and wages but then on the other hand they can be trouble some by preventing the firing of poor employees or demanding inflated wages for rudimentary tasks (here I am thinking of teacher and auto unions).

With respect, I have to disagree with that point. Teaching is so far from rudimentary! Good teaching requires a lot of creativity, patience, and skill, not to mention education. An attitude that teaching is rudimentary work is really insulting to all the hardworking educators out there. I know they are hardworking because they had to tolerate ME for 12 years!! 😱

And autoworkers may not require as much education, but there is an element of skill, and it is physically demanding. As far as I am concerned, someone who uses their body every day deserves good wages because they will end up wearing themselves out and unable to work sooner than someone who just has to sit at a desk.
 
I think unions had their place, but today, with so many governmental regs protecting workers, they are un-necessary and an afront to freedom. I'd feel differently about them if they were voluntary, but in most places, they are a club you have to pay to join if you want to work there. It's really no different than the work system in Iraq that we refer to as "corruption". I definitely have issues with service jobs being part of a union. Police, fire, teachers, and other government workers have no place in a union. What pro-union person is in favor of unionizing the Army? Can you imagine what would happen if we decided to go on strike because we didn't like some policy? Would you be willing to pay me time and a half for any overtime? That'll run you an additional $660 a week for routine times. Deployed or during field time, you're looking at an additional $8450 a week, and that's just for little old me. Public servants should be on a pay schedule, and that's it. If you don't like what the govt offers, you are free to seek employment elsewhere.
 
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In Wisconsin, the average teacher salary is 40-50k. And they work hard for that.

I mean absolutely no offense, but I'm really tired of hearing about the average salary for teachers, because it means absolutely nothing in the absence of complete disclosure about their entire compensation package.

As the wife of a unioned firefighter, it scares me to think what life will be like when my husband and his coworkers won't be able to collectively bargain for their wages.

Won't it be kind of like it is for the rest of us, who don't have union jobs and have at-will employment? Every single day I know I could get laid off. And it's not just a theoretical; as the business I'm in has shrunk, I've watched entire teams on all sides of me booted. My own team has gone from 20 to 6 over the last 5-6 years. When I leave for vet school, it'll be the first voluntary separation from my team I remember in years. 🙂

I would like to say that as a firefighter, his job ought to be safer than others, but the fact is that over here in the Twin Cities, St. Paul (I think? Maybe Minneapolis?) doesn't have the money to meet its minimum firefighter staffing levels. It's sad. And a bit scary for the areas covered by that fire department.
 
I know that the collective bargaining issue is important, but there is also language in this bill that Walker is trying to sneak past everyone while they are protesting for unions.

The bill includes giving Walker the sole right to sell state-owned power plants to anyone, for any price, and with no competing bids required!!! Oh and I bet it's just coincidence that the Koch Bros. (one of Walker's largest contributors) own an energy company!

If this bill passes, Walker can sell our state-owned power plants to the Koch Bros. for pennies on the dollar with no recourse, then the state can pay them to run it with the additional cost of a private company making a profit. Win-win for Walker and his corporate contributors.
 
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I don't think so. I think few, if any, professors/instructors at vet schools are unionized. However, the vet. techs, staff and secretaries are in unions at several schools. But I don't know the specific details for Wisc.

Private employees typically have the right to form unions if they want to. Whether or not they choose to is another matter altogether.
 
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