Wondering if I am too old for Med School

[mavric1298]

Still bollox.

If its a natural supply, then yes, from a communal ethic perspective the oldies should step aside.

But its not a natural supply. Some guys somewhere are deciding "hey, man, we're going to restrict the supply of seats because ______" - are olds expected to govern their lives around that crap?

What on earth are you going on about. The Residency slots are basically purely a congressional matter - GME (grad medical education) is paid for by Medicare and was capped in funding under the 1997 balanced budget act. Any new slots are covered by the hospitals that do the training - so they basically don't happen because it's so expensive to train a resident that most likely isn't going to stay there after they are done. Hospitals WANT more Dr.s. More Dr.s means potential for higher census which = $. I literally do financial reporting a part of my job at a large hospital - and my wife is a charge master. I know the $$$ side of medicine, and the notion that ANYONE on the medical side doesn't want more slots is patently absurd.


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[Goro]

This is becoming an issue for PDs. For a lot of Millennials, residency is the first employment they've ever had, and as such, come with poor employment skills. Such as, asking for vacation when they're on the job for a week!

when i saw how immature and irresponsible some of my classmates are, and when i discovered that a whole lot of residents and attendings had never done their own laundry nor taken public transportation nor ever had a problem not fixed by their parents, and had absolutely nothing in common with the majority of patients, then i understood why my school wanted me around. it's lord of the flies.

 

[chrisjh]

Hi guys!

So I am currently 26 and finishing my masters in exercise physiology. I have all the pre recs for med school. However, due to illness and unfortunate circumstances through my undergrad years I do not feel that I am competitive enough to apply for med school.

I am thinking about taking undergrad again, or is it possible to just retake classes I needed to improve in? Am I too old to start all of this? I would love to hear from others as I have such a desire to try, but feel very lost and confused in fully making the decision.

Thank you ahead of time for your responses. They are greatly appreciated and much need.

I'm 25 and married with a kid. I just took the MCAT yesterday and I'm applying this cycle. You're not too old.

 

[Ad2b]

I'm 25 and married with a kid. I just beat-the-snot-out-of the MCAT yesterday and I'm applying this cycle. You're not too old.

There. Fixed it for you

 

[chrisjh]

There. Fixed it for you

lol of course, thanks for correcting me....

 

[NoSleeptilBKLN]

Too old at 26? I am sure that most of this group would give their right leg, and maybe even left to be 26 again. You're at a good time in life to know what you want to do, and what you don't. Make the most of it and good luck

 

[QofQuimica]

"When people start stopping, that's when they start getting old."

Something to consider:
http://www.medicaldaily.com/planning-retiring-early-consider-these-5-health-risks-first-247669

Even this is a false dichotomy, because people who truly retire early don't typically do nothing. I will be retiring in March at the age of 42. Here's how I plan to spend the first few years of my retirement:

- Go to Israel for two months. Live on a kibbutz, travel, learn to speak Hebrew.
- Fellowship. Likely a little moonlighting on the side, but only 2-4 days per month.
- Work abroad. Maybe Alaska. Or Australia. Or Antarctica. One of those A places.

Not sure what I'll do after that, but this will cover me at least until I'm 45.

 

[Ad2b]

I will be retiring in March at the age of 42.

Now, I feel old.

 

[AlphaBeta<3]

But there are no 50 year olds who look 25.

Idk about that.

 

[atomi]

This is becoming an issue for PDs. For a lot of Millennials, residency is the first employment they've ever had, and as such, come with poor employment skills. Such as, asking for vacation when they're on the job for a week!

I get what you're saying, but come on... If anything the traditional path to med school was more common in the old days. High school->college->med school->residency->first job at age 30. These days it's much more common to have students who spent 1-2 years after college working full-time. Or at the very least part time and paying their own bills.

 

[AlphaBeta<3]

This is becoming an issue for PDs. For a lot of Millennials, residency is the first employment they've ever had, and as such, come with poor employment skills. Such as, asking for vacation when they're on the job for a week!

Lol what? Most people don't work through college? I wish I could afford to do this

 

[Goro]

I think they're becoming an endangered species.

Lol what? Most people don't work through college? I wish I could afford to do this

 

[Ad2b]

I think they're becoming an endangered species.

Mille's .... Helo parents showing up at interviews, helo parents wondering why silly Billy didn't get promo...

 

[mavric1298]

Plenty still exist, or have people that have parents still doing laundry for them, or parents showing up to premed honor society meetings with them when they are 20 (yes this just happened). There are a lot of people trying to go straight thru the old; High school->college->med school->residency->first job at age 30

 

[POTUS1995]

Too old at 26? I am sure that most of this group would give their right leg, and maybe even left to be 26 again. You're at a good time in life to know what you want to do, and what you don't. Make the most of it and good luck

I'm 22 and feel really old! Just yesterday I got a co-worker tell me that I need to rethink med school because I am still a junior

 

[WGSgrad]

This is becoming an issue for PDs. For a lot of Millennials, residency is the first employment they've ever had, and as such, come with poor employment skills. Such as, asking for vacation when they're on the job for a week!

Not gonna lie, as a millennial, it really rubs me the wrong way when folks, particularly older folks, use the term "millennial" to broadly attribute the behaviors and experiences of a particular socioeconomic group to a large and diverse generation of people. Seriously. Please stop centering the behaviors and experiences of ''millennials" around the relatively privileged groups with whom you have regular contact.

Rant over.

 

[el_duderino]

Not gonna lie, as a millennial, it really rubs me the wrong way when folks, particularly older folks, use the term "millennial" to broadly attribute the behaviors and experiences of a particular socioeconomic group to a large and diverse generation of people. Seriously. Please stop centering the behaviors and experiences of ''millennials" around the relatively privileged groups with whom you have regular contact.

Rant over.

This is the modern internet equivalent of "get off my lawn!" or "today's music is trash."

 

[Ad2b]

 

[trev5150]

For what it's worth, the 99th percentile age for MD applicants is 40, and for matriculants it's 35.

Really not a feel-good statistic if you're 40+ when you think about what that means.

 

[trev5150]

This is becoming an issue for PDs. For a lot of Millennials, residency is the first employment they've ever had, and as such, come with poor employment skills. Such as, asking for vacation when they're on the job for a week!

Esp. if PDs are becoming increasingly Gen-X...

 

[trev5150]

Not gonna lie, as a millennial, it really rubs me the wrong way when folks, particularly older folks, use the term "millennial" to broadly attribute the behaviors and experiences of a particular socioeconomic group to a large and diverse generation of people. Seriously. Please stop centering the behaviors and experiences of ''millennials" around the relatively privileged groups with whom you have regular contact.

Rant over.

As usual, the 10% ruining it for everybody. Nothing new under the sun.
Ironically, here's an offended millennial.

 

[Seattle Mariners Fan]

Interesting how when the OP is female, a boatload of males come rushing in to answer her question. If the OP were male, we'd be at 5-6 posts maximum, 3 of which would be asking the OP to use the search function, and 1 of which would be someone telling the OP that she's an "ideal candidate for DO".

This question has been asked numerous times, so I'm baffled as to why some of you don't refer her to the search function?

95% of the people in this thread be like "H...hey...how do you feel about online, long distance relationships, my HBB?"

No hate, though. Some of you just need girlfriends.

No hate? So much hate.

OP is cute though, no question.

 

[TheTao]

Almost every student I teach has the ONE issue that makes everyone at ANY age look older than they are and that's excess weight.

Just because some of you CLEARLY have parents that haven't aged well and your generation is the most obese in history, don't make those same assumptions about super premeds ie those over 40. In fact, it seems to me that the ONE thing every over 40 premed I know/know of has in common is being HIGHLY motivated and reasonably fit.

 

[mavric1298]

And percentiles mean nothing in this picture. If 99% of the people that apply are under 30, that says nothing about the acceptance rate of those over 30, it just says that most people that apply (duh) are younger. What actually matters is the acceptance/matriculation rate basically per capita of age group, which I've never seen as hard data anywhere. We know how matriculates, but application by age isn't given anywhere that I could find.


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[el_duderino]

And percentiles mean nothing in this picture. If 99% of the people that apply are under 30, that says nothing about the acceptance rate of those over 30, it just says that most people that apply (duh) are younger. What actually matters is the acceptance/matriculation rate basically per capita of age group, which I've never seen as hard data anywhere. We know how matriculates, but application by age isn't given anywhere that I could find.


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I suppose you haven't taken stats yet.

It does mean something when the 99th-percentile age of matriculants is 5 years younger than that of applicants. It means that the age distribution of matriculants and applicants is markedly different.

 

[esob]

The other facet that simply cannot be measured is the interview process. Some people are not going to interview well, while I would wager that some of the 30+ applicants probably are literally the best "salespeople" that adcoms run into. Its hard to imagine that a former successful attorney wouldn't grossly outshine the typical traditional student in the interview process.

 

[mavric1298]

I suppose you haven't taken stats yet.

It does mean something when the 99th-percentile age of matriculants is 5 years younger than that of applicants. It means that the age distribution of matriculants and applicants is markedly different.

Again it doesn't tell you anything unless you know the proportion of applicant that are in that age group - tell me this. From your stats, do lots of people over 30 apply and not many get in, or do not many people apply?

Easy example:

You have 990 people that are 20-25 year old apply. You have 10 people over 30 that apply. 10 of 10 of the overs matriculate and and 90 of the 990 younger matriculate.

Stats would show you that 1% of matriculates are over 30. That doesn't tell you a damn thing about acceptance rates, and you would have no idea every single person who applied from the older group matriculates. A 9% acceptance rate vs a 100% acceptance rate. What does your percentile tell you about your chances? Nothing.

Stats 101 if you don't know your initial sample, you can't draw conclusions about results.




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[iqe2010]

I don't think you're too old at all. I just turned 24 and I won't be applying until next year meaning that if I'm accepted the first time around I won't start medical school until age 26.

In my state, 64% of the matriculants are 21-23, 12% are 24-26, 3% are 27-30 and 3% are 30+.

 

[QofQuimica]

The biggest problem with older applicants is less their age and more that their stats are (on average) significantly worse than the stats of younger applicants. Speaking as someone who applied at age 30 with excellent stats, my experience was that if you have very competitive stats, being age 30 will not be an issue. I wound up not only getting into a dozen medical schools, but also receiving scholarships at several of them. The school I attended even paid my living expenses, similar to what they do for students in the MSTP (although I was not actually an MSTP student since I came in already having a PhD).

That being said, older nontrads (over age 40) may face some age discrimination because they are being judged by trad adcoms who have already been out and working for 10+ years. It is not always easy for a trad faculty who has followed the straight path into medicine to understand why a supposedly successful middle-aged nontrad would want to change gears and start over in medicine. There are also not very many applicants out there who are in their 40s or beyond. If you are applying as a member of this very select group, and you want to be successful at getting into (and through) medical school, it is especially important that you shine in all the same places expected of trad applicants: strong GPA, good MCAT score, strong ECs and LORs (generally not an issue for the older nontrad), and for maximum odds of success, some geographic flexibility. While life experience and diversity are not unimportant, they cannot in and of themselves make up for subpar academic performance. The best applicants of any age who are highly sought after by medical schools are excellent in a well-rounded way, not just in some areas.

 

[TheZaLord]

As usual, the 10% ruining it for everybody. Nothing new under the sun.
Ironically, here's an offended millennial.

I kind of agreed with the post you quoted. As another "millennial", that does get tiresome.

But that last line made me laugh out loud.
Panera patrons are giving me strange looks.

 

[NEVERSURRENDERMD]

I'm turning 49 this June and I still have to complete my prereqs and finish the degree I want in Biochemistry before I even get to the applying for med school part. I don't know. Maybe I won't make it in or through. It may seem and sound corny, but I really do think it's about the journey. I have a form of leukemia (it's called CML, so look it up... you guys are supposed to be interested in medicine, so it'll do you good) that is manageable with just a pill every day, but when I was diagnosed with leukemia, and went through the whole diagnosis process, and since then, with the constant blood tests... my point I guess is that I'm just happy to be alive, and after that experience, when I thought for a while that I very definitely might only live another couple of years, I decided to go back to school and do what I actually wanted to do, which is be a doctor. If I die at some point during my journey to become one, I'll have died doing something I love. Corny or not, I can't imagine what more someone could want out of life. And if I don't die anytime soon, I'll get to spend the remainder of my time on Earth being a doctor. Or I might decide I want to do research after that. Or write novels! The point is, it's just life. Live it.

 

[trev5150]

(it's called CML, so look it up... you guys are supposed to be interested in medicine, so it'll do you good)

Leukemia or no leukemia, that is about as condescending at it gets. Consider revising.

 

[trev5150]

I'll have died doing something I love.

From a writing standpint, this sort of phrase is usually reserved for someone that bought it flying acrobatics or while scuba diving or something like that. Odd choices you're making in this thread.

 

[chrisjh]

From a writing standpint, this sort of phrase is usually reserved for someone that bought it flying acrobatics or while scuba diving or something like that. Odd choices you're making in this thread.

Seems more like you're the condescending one.... maybe you should revise all of your posts......

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[VegasPreMed]

Somewhat on topic due to the "millennial" mention...

Anyone else feel like it may be more due to a generation brought up in a mostly service economy? Parents raising children after encountering "the customer is always right" for their entire lives? Mostly this is on my mind due to my previous career, but it seems the customers are catered to no matter where you go; it usually doesn't matter how rude they are.

Obviously this is good for business. More customers = more money. But if the parents (who brought up the millennials) were "always right" would they not impart that attitude onto their children? Further, while the parents may possibly have only displayed this behavior when out (customer is always right behavior, I mean) the kids would have picked up on it and felt entitled everywhere. I think this fits with what another poster mentioned (@WGSgrad) about it only applying to a certain subset of millennials, namely the well-to-do, as their parents would have been the ones out being "served" most frequently.

Dunno. But I know for sure that an entitled attitude ran all age groups when I was still "serving".

 

[NEVERSURRENDERMD]

From a writing standpint, this sort of phrase is usually reserved for someone that bought it flying acrobatics or while scuba diving or something like that. Odd choices you're making in this thread.

Haha. I see your point. I'm not being morbid about it, it's just that now, at my age, and after thinking my own death was imminent, I guess I do tend to look at things from that point of view. Just some things. Not all. I've still got quite a bit of fight left in me. But when deciding what to do with my life, I now weigh other factors more heavily than I used to. For instance, I could have chosen and almost did choose to go back to school and become a nurse, and financially, given my age, that might have made more sense, but I thought, no, I don't WANT to be a nurse. I WANT to be a DOCTOR. Even though I'll be retirement age by the time I become one. So I'm going for it and I'm going to become a doctor.

 

[NEVERSURRENDERMD]

Leukemia or no leukemia, that is about as condescending at it gets. Consider revising.

Uh, no. I'll write how I want to write, thank you very much.

 

[trev5150]

Seems more like you're the condescending one.... maybe you should revise all of your posts......

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And you jumping into the fray makes you... What exactly?

 

[NEVERSURRENDERMD]

And you jumping into the fray makes you... What exactly?

LOL ... Youuuuuu, I know your type. You can be fun to have around and enjoy the debate for the debate's own sake. I think these forums are probably not the best places for your trolls, though. I can point you to some very interesting 4chan graduates who would love to debate you, though. Haha. Be cool dude. You be you, and I'm going to be me, which is to say I'm going to try to be nice and kind to people until they give me a reason not to be, but I'm under no illusions about other people, and most certainly not people who, like me, are attempting to become doctors. We can be a cut throat bunch, to say the least. But still, I try to be nice until the final round!

 

[WGSgrad]

Somewhat on topic due to the "millennial" mention...

Anyone else feel like it may be more due to a generation brought up in a mostly service economy? Parents raising children after encountering "the customer is always right" for their entire lives? Mostly this is on my mind due to my previous career, but it seems the customers are catered to no matter where you go; it usually doesn't matter how rude they are.

Obviously this is good for business. More customers = more money. But if the parents (who brought up the millennials) were "always right" would they not impart that attitude onto their children? Further, while the parents may possibly have only displayed this behavior when out (customer is always right behavior, I mean) the kids would have picked up on it and felt entitled everywhere. I think this fits with what another poster mentioned (@WGSgrad) about it only applying to a certain subset of millennials, namely the well-to-do, as their parents would have been the ones out being "served" most frequently.

Dunno. But I know for sure that an entitled attitude ran all age groups when I was still "serving".

I think that's exactly my point. When people say "millennial" they are doing it to be disparaging and usually, not always but usually, they are referring to a particular group who has had a particular socioeconomic experience. While I have no problem with the term "millennial" (it is a bit less bankrupt as a descriptor than GenX), what I do get annoyed with is its rather lazy application.

Less this thread be derailed...The OP is clearly not too old. I think QofQuimica's argument is the most salient: for most non-traditional students, the problem is that their stats aren't as competitive as the traditional students.

 

[NEVERSURRENDERMD]

I think that's exactly my point. When people say "millennial" they are doing it to be disparaging and usually, not always but usually, they are referring to a particular group who has had a particular socioeconomic experience. While I have no problem with the term "millennial" (it is a bit less bankrupt as a descriptor than GenX), what I do get annoyed with is its rather lazy application.

I have a daughter who is about to turn 22, so if I ever say millenial, it's not meant disparagingly. I honestly don't understand why people try to assign certain attributes to different generations. I've never found it to be a very accurate means of measurement.

 

[NEVERSURRENDERMD]

The biggest problem with older applicants is less their age and more that their stats are (on average) significantly worse than the stats of younger applicants. Speaking as someone who applied at age 30 with excellent stats, my experience was that if you have very competitive stats, being age 30 will not be an issue. I wound up not only getting into a dozen medical schools, but also receiving scholarships at several of them. The school I attended even paid my living expenses, similar to what they do for students in the MSTP (although I was not actually an MSTP student since I came in already having a PhD).

That being said, older nontrads (over age 40) may face some age discrimination because they are being judged by trad adcoms who have already been out and working for 10+ years. It is not always easy for a trad faculty who has followed the straight path into medicine to understand why a supposedly successful middle-aged nontrad would want to change gears and start over in medicine. There are also not very many applicants out there who are in their 40s or beyond. If you are applying as a member of this very select group, and you want to be successful at getting into (and through) medical school, it is especially important that you shine in all the same places expected of trad applicants: strong GPA, good MCAT score, strong ECs and LORs (generally not an issue for the older nontrad), and for maximum odds of success, some geographic flexibility. While life experience and diversity are not unimportant, they cannot in and of themselves make up for subpar academic performance. The best applicants of any age who are highly sought after by medical schools are excellent in a well-rounded way, not just in some areas.

I hope to prove you wrong, or at least prove to be an exception. At the age of 48/49, I will readily admit that my brain is not as sharp as it was when I was in my early 20's, but at the same time, I don't have nearly the amount of distractions (girls, girls, girls) that I had then, and I'm much calmer, which is helpful when it comes to studying and really applying myself to school, which I have no problem admitting that I did NOT do when I was in my late teens/early 20's. Also, and I realize this is probably the exception, so it doesn't apply to the averages you're talking about, but my IQ score in HS and early college and all through my 20's (I was quite literally tested until I never wanted to see another standardized test) was at its highest, 174, and at its lowest, always in the 160's. So, even if I may have lost some mental horsepower, I'm hoping that I'll still be well above average, even in my 50's. I suppose we'll see.

 

[WGSgrad]

I hope to prove you wrong, or at least prove to be an exception. At the age of 48/49, I will readily admit that my brain is not as sharp as it was when I was in my early 20's, but at the same time, I don't have nearly the amount of distractions (girls, girls, girls) that I had then, and I'm much calmer, which is helpful when it comes to studying and really applying myself to school, which I have no problem admitting that I did NOT do when I was in my late teens/early 20's. Also, and I realize this is probably the exception, so it doesn't apply to the averages you're talking about, but my IQ score in HS and early college and all through my 20's (I was quite literally tested until I never wanted to see another standardized test) was at its highest, 174, and at its lowest, always in the 160's. So, even if I may have lost some mental horsepower, I'm hoping that I'll still be well above average, even in my 50's. I suppose we'll see.

I wish you the very best in your journey!

 

[NEVERSURRENDERMD]

I wish you the very best in your journey!

Thank you and the best to you, as well!

 

[QofQuimica]

I hope to prove you wrong, or at least prove to be an exception. At the age of 48/49, I will readily admit that my brain is not as sharp as it was when I was in my early 20's, but at the same time, I don't have nearly the amount of distractions (girls, girls, girls) that I had then, and I'm much calmer, which is helpful when it comes to studying and really applying myself to school, which I have no problem admitting that I did NOT do when I was in my late teens/early 20's. Also, and I realize this is probably the exception, so it doesn't apply to the averages you're talking about, but my IQ score in HS and early college and all through my 20's (I was quite literally tested until I never wanted to see another standardized test) was at its highest, 174, and at its lowest, always in the 160's. So, even if I may have lost some mental horsepower, I'm hoping that I'll still be well above average, even in my 50's. I suppose we'll see.

It has nothing to do with your age or your IQ score. Med school is a lot of work, but the concepts are not intellectually difficult; a person with a dead average IQ of 100 coupled with a strong work ethic could certainly handle the medical school curriculum. I'm talking about academic achievement, or the lack thereof. Many nontrads are applying after a less than stellar UG performance 5, 10, or more years ago. Let's be honest: if these previously underperforming nontrads who have "always wanted to go to med school" had done well in college the first time around, they would have been trads. And not to say that adcoms don't respect or give credit for reinvention and life experience, because they certainly do. However, if you have a sub-3.5 GPA, you are already significantly below the average at many med schools, including the state school I currently work at. If you are below 3.0, you are significantly below the average for ALL medical schools in this country. Every single one. So yeah, no adcom anywhere is going to salivate over an applicant with a sub-3.0 GPA, not at age 19, not at age 29, not at age 39, and not at age 49.

Bottom line: If you can hang with the trads stats-wise, then your nontrad strengths (life experience, ECs, etc) can be a real asset. But you gotta prove that you can perform in the classroom and in the testing center.

 

[mavric1298]

Funny you should mention that: directly from my PS

"I am not one of those people that can say “I’ve always known I wanted to be a doctor.”..."



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[Ad2b]

for most non-traditional students, the problem is that their stats aren't as competitive as the traditional students.

And the path has a way of weeding those folks out.

Those of us who beat our younger peers on academics, MCAT, ECs and LORs still can be discriminated against simply due to age.

I know of a person with a 4.0; top 10 university ugrad; top MCAT score. The individual's premed adviser said NO med school would never accept him. None. That's what was told to this person.

That person is now an MS-3, allopathic, 45+ ... age discrimination is alive and well; it is tiresome but ... those of us at this age also know how to navigate it; or give up.

 

[NEVERSURRENDERMD]

It has nothing to do with your age or your IQ score. Med school is a lot of work, but the concepts are not intellectually difficult; a person with a dead average IQ of 100 coupled with a strong work ethic could certainly handle the medical school curriculum. I'm talking about academic achievement, or the lack thereof. Many nontrads are applying after a less than stellar UG performance 5, 10, or more years ago. Let's be honest: if these previously underperforming nontrads who have "always wanted to go to med school" had done well in college the first time around, they would have been trads. And not to say that adcoms don't respect or give credit for reinvention and life experience, because they certainly do. However, if you have a sub-3.5 GPA, you are already significantly below the average at many med schools, including the state school I currently work at. If you are below 3.0, you are significantly below the average for ALL medical schools in this country. Every single one. So yeah, no adcom anywhere is going to salivate over an applicant with a sub-3.0 GPA, not at age 19, not at age 29, not at age 39, and not at age 49.

Bottom line: If you can hang with the trads stats-wise, then your nontrad strengths (life experience, ECs, etc) can be a real asset. But you gotta prove that you can perform in the classroom and in the testing center.

That could be true for some. I wanted to be an astronaut and the idea of becoming a doctor didn't even occur to me until I worked in hospital pharmacies to help pay for college and even then I was sure I was supposed to be an astronaut. My secondary path from aerospace engineering was to get a degree in computer science, so that shows you that even then I didn't think being an M.D. was something I'd want to do. My younger brother works at NASA, I was going to work at NASA, my grandfather... no, I did not come from a family that thought being a doctor was a great accomplishment. LOL. They STILL don't! But I'm A LOT older now. I want to be a doctor. We can pull MCAT scores out later and see whose is longer. I got diss.

 

[Gurby]

 

[Seattle Mariners Fan]

174? Wow that's like smarter than Newton. Man.