Years in Residency Count Towards PSLF?

[chompsss]

So, I think I've been able to determine that the years spent in dental school don't count for PSLF while on HPSP and even not while on HSCP, despite being "Active Duty." On the attached sheet, which is the Public Service Employment Certification form, under the Military section, it says,

"Military service for uniformed members of the U.S. Armed Forces or the National Guard means “active duty” service or “full-time National Guard duty” as defined in Section 101(d)(1) and (d)(5) of Title 10 of the United States Code, but does not include active duty for training or attendance at a service school. For civilians, military service means service on behalf of the U. S. Armed Forces or the National Guard performed by an employee of a public service organization."

My deduction that years in dental school don't count towards PSLF stem directly from this document. Years in dental school on HPSP are most certainly not counted, since you're in the IRR, but even HSCP years aren't since we're "Active duty for training."

However, are HPSPers and HSCPers considered "Active Duty for training" while at residency? I realize it may be an obvious, "Yes, of course," but I'm thinking that since we get bumped to O3 once done with dental school, perhaps we aren't considered "training" anymore? Can anybody in the know speak to this?

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[distressstudent]

Can I ask you why you are looking at pslf?
If you are on HPSP or even HSCP, is there any real reason why you would still have outstanding loans after ten years? Just curious

 

[vellnueve]

Can I ask you why you are looking at pslf?
If you are on HPSP or even HSCP, is there any real reason why you would still have outstanding loans after ten years? Just curious

Undergrad loans...

 

[chompsss]

Can I ask you why you are looking at pslf?
If you are on HPSP or even HSCP, is there any real reason why you would still have outstanding loans after ten years? Just curious

Undergrad loans as @vellnueve said but also, and in my opinion more importantly, for those on HSCP, it wouldn't make sense to try and pay off dental school loans in 10 years if you can pay the minimum on the IBR or PAYE plans and then get the rest forgiven after 10 years.

On HSCP, I'll still come out with significant dental school debt, and my debt will still be much smaller than those who go to private school. HSCP pays about $50k/year, but about half of that will go to cost of living, leaving about $25k that could reduce the amount borrowed over four years. Even the cheapest of dental schools cost more than $25k/year. For people who go to private schools, they'll still graduate with well above $150k in dental school debt.

If someone comes out with $150k in debt and pays the 10% discretionary income minimum (on IBR or PAYE) on a military dentist salary, over the course of ten years they'd only pay about $70-$75k in student loan payments. Remember, the 10% discretionary income is only based on Adjusted Gross Income, which is only taxable income, which doesn't include BAH and BAS. That leaves a hefty chunk that could be forgiven on PSLF.

But, I can't seem to find out whether years in residency count. Part of me would think yes, part of me would think no. But, rather than speculate, I'd rather ask the community.

 

[gatorfan99]

Do you mean the military residency programs? Those are the only ones you are allowed to apply for (which ones are you thinking of?). You will an active duty service member during those years, these will take place in a military installation and you will be expected to wear the uniform (and do some occasional military things).

 

[chompsss]

Do you mean the military residency programs? Those are the only ones you are allowed to apply for (which ones are you thinking of?). You will an active duty service member during those years, these will take place in a military installation and you will be expected to wear the uniform (and do some occasional military things).

Yes, those are the ones I am referring to. Do those count towards PSLF or will the military consider you "Active Duty for training" and thus, PSLF will not consider you eligible during those years?

 

[vellnueve]

Yes, those are the ones I am referring to. Do those count towards PSLF or will the military consider you "Active Duty for training" and thus, PSLF will not consider you eligible during those years?

I don't know for sure but I suspect they will count towards PSLF. Active duty for training usually refers to reservists in a drilling state for annual or extended training.

Do you mean the military residency programs? Those are the only ones you are allowed to apply for (which ones are you thinking of?). You will an active duty service member during those years, these will take place in a military installation and you will be expected to wear the uniform (and do some occasional military things).

Unless you get sent outservice (although the same principle still applies)

 

[gatorfan99]

From what I hear, at least in the Army, and mainly because the days of shortages in the dental corps are long gone, getting send to a civilian program is now VERY rare

 

[vellnueve]

From what I hear, at least in the Army, and mainly because the days of shortages in the dental corps are long gone, getting send to a civilian program is now VERY rare

Maybe for you guys... I'm headed to one this summer as is a Navy HPSP student that I know, and I interviewed alongside an Air Force dentist who was being sent out as well.

I know that in the last few years the Navy has sent people out for Operative Dentistry, Oral/Maxillofacial Radiology, OMFS, Pediatric Dentistry, and a few other specialties.

 

[schmoob]

Yes, they do count. You are in Active federal service. Even many civilian residency years count as long as you are at a not for profit hospital. It depends on the hospitals tax filing status.