Des Moines University (DMU-COM) Discussion 2015 - 2016

Applying to Med School? Get In Or Your Money Back
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I am so confused.... In the alternate email from Des Moines they say "The extent to which we utilize the alternate list varies greatly from year to year, though we anticipate this cycle we will have the opportunity to make considerable offers of admission to qualified candidates." But then when I contact Des Moines they say that their current class is full? How can they anticipate that many people will drop off their list?
 
campb767 said:
I am so confused.... In the alternate email from Des Moines they say "The extent to which we utilize the alternate list varies greatly from year to year, though we anticipate this cycle we will have the opportunity to make considerable offers of admission to qualified candidates." But then when I contact Des Moines they say that their current class is full? How can they anticipate that many people will drop off their list?
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May be that they already have open slots and are deciding who to offer it to based on an internal ranking system. Just my two cents.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
It's not much but thought I'd share!


"Thank you for checking in! We have started to make some offers off the alternate list. Though we anticipate more, we can never for sure say how many more. We will continue to make acceptance offers all the way up until the first day of classes in August.
Best regards,
Marianne"
 
neuronerd16 said:
It's not much but thought I'd share!


"Thank you for checking in! We have started to make some offers off the alternate list. Though we anticipate more, we can never for sure say how many more. We will continue to make acceptance offers all the way up until the first day of classes in August.
Best regards,
Marianne"
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Gahh thats great! Does anyone know if they call or email? I assume email?
 
Got accepted into my state MD school, so I will be dropping my spot here. Good luck everyone, it's been a hell of a ride.
 
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Just got in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Off of the alternate list. Best of luck to everyone still waiting and hope to see you in the fall! :)
 
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campb767 said:
Just got in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Off of the alternate list. Best of luck to everyone still waiting and hope to see you in the fall! :)
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That's so great!! :D
So now you have an answer lol - did they call you or e-mail? ;)
 
Gave up my seat this week. Took a long time to decide. Hope one of you hears some good news!
 
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Aki the Mew said:
Gave up my seat this week. Took a long time to decide. Hope one of you hears some good news!
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I feel the need to thank you, since I was accepted yesterday off the alternate list!

I'm overjoyed, DMU was my first choice and I can't wait to meet you all in August!!! :)
 
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JUST GOT THE EMAIL!! I keep rechecking it because I can't believe it. I'm going to medical school!!! WOO-HOO!!
 
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Has anyone from the 2nd quartile received an acceptance yet? Any info on how deep they are into the wait list?
 
The tentative fall exam schedule has been emailed out and posted to Pulse! I am sure I won't be as excited about exams come the fall... but so excited to start and meet you all! :D

Hope everyone is enjoying their summer! :banana:
 
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showershorts said:
I feel the need to thank you, since I was accepted yesterday off the alternate list!

I'm overjoyed, DMU was my first choice and I can't wait to meet you all in August!!! :)
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I'm so happy! It's a really awesome school. (Far for me though. :p) Have fun!
 
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ElProcrastinator said:
Has anyone from the 2nd quartile received an acceptance yet? Any info on how deep they are into the wait list?
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I was also in the first quartile and had not heard anything, but just removed myself from the alternate list today.
Best of luck!
 
I've never really made a post before, but everyone's comments on this site have been so helpful for me throughout, so I thought I'd make post to help out. I just gave up my seat and really hope it goes to someone on here! There are quite a few people I know in the 2020 DMU class who are still on waitlists at other schools and getting accepted. It's not over yet! :)
 
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I got into my state school today, so like @docmunni, I will also be giving up my seat! Good luck to you all, I hope this ends for you soon :)
 
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if any of you off the waitlist are looking for housing PM me! i signed a lease with another student, but she will no longer be attending DMU, so I am desperately looking for a new roomie!
 
IH8ColdWeath3r said:
I also want to just give a heads up after I read some comments on here that I think are not factual and really sugar coated. This isn't to discourage anyone from pursuing our school, or going to an osteopathic school, but really to give everyone a more realistic expectation of some of the roadblocks that lie ahead. I think it is factually incorrect for somebody to say something to the effect of:

"you can have opportunities to set up audition rotations in whatever specialty you want at any hospital across the country during your fourth year, such as ones that you want to complete your residency at. "

^ that statement is extremely misleading. Fact of the matter is, you wont be able to set up auditions in whatever specialty you choose, especially not at almost any hospital. If you want to pursue things like Ortho, ENT, or Ophtho, you are pretty much restricted to AOA programs because those specialties are extremely competitive. You won't be doing Ophtho at UCLA, regardless of your 265 board score, unless you know somebody or if there is a handshake outside of the match. If you don't believe me, try googling some of the programs and see how many DOs are at the big ACGME hospitals in those specialties. I would also say that in relatively less competitive specialties when compared to the ROAD specialties (although still competitive), it is still an uphill climb to land at a big teaching hospital at a prestigious institution. You need great board scores, and you also need to be realistic and realize that DO bias still exists. Read the forums, especially the DO ones about people going through the match process right now. Some people who auditioned were rock stars but were still told that because the program had not taken a DO before, they were reluctant to take one now. (This was mentioned about someone with great scores rotating at a big program in Denver). Hopefully over time, and with the merger, this bias will continue to depreciate as it has. However, again, I think that it is extremely unrealistic and misleading for someone who has not gone through the process to say that anyone can go into anything in any hospital. As a DO, you can still go to good programs, with good great faculty, good didactics, good ancillary staff, autonomy, and even programs that have good fellowship opportunities.

BUT, the fact is that, if you happen to try to match before the merger is complete, and you try going AOA, you run the risk of setting up auditions at programs that may be shutting down. This has already happened with several programs that applied for accreditation and did not meet the requirements. What does that say about those programs? Probably means that they are substandard. I'm sure not all of them are, but probably there were some glaring problems that prohibited them from getting accreditation. So, why would you want to waste a month doing an audition rotation there and the potentially another 3 years-5 years of residency if the training is substandard or if those programs run the risk of not meeting accreditation and run the risk of getting shut down before you even start (then you'll have to scramble). I personally find it worrisome to apply to AOA programs for this reason, but I know many of my classmates who are soley applying to AOA programs. At the same time, there are also legitimate concerns (if you're only applyin ACGME and foregoing to AOA match) about matching into a competitive ACGME specialty as a DO. Either way, I would still be worried about soley applying to AOA programs that run the risk of not existing now or in a few years with the merger.

Again, the point of my statement is not to bash all the AOA programs. There are a lot of good AOA programs out there that train competent physicians and do great with medical education. But, I just wanted to highlight some of the obstacles and realities to those who are not familiar with the process. And this goes back to my point about the original quote - setting up fourth year rotations at these bigger teaching hospitals and academic institutions is a challenge. Because, not only are you behind the people who attend that school & its affiliated teaching hospital, because they have preference with dates and audition spots, but you are also restricted by your board score (this applies to anyone, MD or DO). So, the first step is to first do well enough to meet the cutoffs for the programs & specialties that you want to apply to, and, at the same time, do research on the program and see how many DOs they've taken in their previous 3 residency classes. If the answer is 1-2, then you probably don't want to apply there because then you're just burning $$. This is the sad reality, but its the truth. I didn't apply to some of the more desirable states because they didn't have any DOs in almost all of the residency programs that I looked at for my specialty, and if they did the % was like 97% US MD, 3% DO. So, it made no sense to apply there. THIS is the reason why you see the majority of DO applicants concentrated in the Midwest. Yes, a lot of them have ties to the area because of family, but it is also significantly more difficult to get a residency in Cali or the Northeast, unless you have phenomenal scores and are applying to a less competitive specialty. Are there exceptions? Sure. But that's just what they are.

So, point being, if you are really hell bent on going to a big academic institution or a prestigious program, perhaps it would be best to wait it out and improve your medical school app and apply MD. Also, if you want to do something like ENT, Ortho, Ophtho, Urology, it may also be better to wait it out or try at US MD because if the merger does happen and those AOA programs become US MD, they will be opened up to more applicants from the MD pool, who, for now, are not allowed to apply to the AOA match and train at AOA programs and are soley restricted to ACGME programs. When the merger goes through, this advantage for DO's will no longer exist. That is not to say that there aren't a ton of good community programs out there, that, although not as big or prestigious as the big academic institutions or county hospitals, still train great physicians who can practice in a variety of clinical settings. But, if your goal is a competitive specialty and you are indifferent to the idea that it may be at a smaller AOA institution or at a less than desirable place in the country, then by all means apply and give it a shot and get in and done before the merger. Again, these are just some things to think about. Not trying to hurt anybodies feelings, my classmates, or future applicants. Just trying to speak truth to reality. I welcome any current DMU students who have done clinical rotations and gone through the application process or are currently in the app process (not 1st and 2nd years) to chime in on this.
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I didn't read your entire post but this is kind of misleading. Yes it is nearly impossible to match at these competitive places in competitive specialties as a DO. Paraphrasing what I heard from some PDs is that this is not due to the fact we are DOs it is due to the fact that MD residencies get burned when they rank DO candidates and then they go on the match in the AOA match. Essentially what is the point of ranking a competitive DO applicant when they are participating in the AOA match. Once the matches merge I think you will see increased DO representation. Sure there are places that exclude DOs just to exclude DOs, but that is not as prevalent as it once was.
 
screamin eagle said:
I didn't read your entire post but this is kind of misleading. Yes it is nearly impossible to match at these competitive places in competitive specialties as a DO. Paraphrasing what I heard from some PDs is that this is not due to the fact we are DOs it is due to the fact that MD residencies get burned when they rank DO candidates and then they go on the match in the AOA match. Essentially what is the point of ranking a competitive DO applicant when they are participating in the AOA match. Once the matches merge I think you will see increased DO representation. Sure there are places that exclude DOs just to exclude DOs, but that is not as prevalent as it once was.
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Paraphrasing what you heard from some PDs? And how many PD's have you spoken to? Being a DO puts you at a significant disadvantage, whether you want to believe that or not. Have you actually gone through 3rd and 4th year and gone through the trouble of contacting programs to set up rotations?

I don't think that it is misleading at ALL. First of all, my school just told everyone that Step I isn't mandatory in a meeting that we had prior to us leaving for fourth year audition. Then, the person making that statement retracted it, saying that it was only true for people who wanted to do primary care in Iowa. We had a residency panel of PDs come speak to us, and, go figure, the one guy on the panel who was an ACGME general surgery program director basically said that they only accept USMLE, because he knows that it's a better test. A lot of these programs have DO bias because they know that the COMLEX is a really poor exam, they really aren't concerned with how much of an OMM guru you are, and frankly, they find it amusing that we place so much emphasis on manipulation and yet our curriculum doesn't focus on the essentials of what make a good doctor longitudinally throughout our training (looking at imaging, US incorporated in the curriculum, physical diagnosis, etc.) I myself just contacted two respectable programs this week in a specialty that I am shooting for and was told that "we don't accept DO's" for auditions. So, yes, the number of programs that do this is far and few but they still exist and although I will admit that DO bias gap as been reduced, it still very much exists and to disregard it or minimize it makes you look, well....like you don't know what you're talking about or going by what you heard from "some PDs".

Lastly, if someone is a competitive applicant, then they will only apply to the ACGME match and forego the AOA match. The reason that people don't do that is because they are afraid that they might not match ACGME and are alright with just applying to both, even if it means they will be at a smaller, community AOA program as opposed to a larger academic ACGME program. If you're confident, and only auditioned at ACGME programs and have a competitive score, or a good letters from auditions, (and aren't overshooting or really reaching)...then you should match ACGME. There is no reason you shouldn't match and when given the choice, the majority of people prefer to match ACGME because then they know that program is viable and will not be subject to getting shut down with the merger - the same cannot be said about AOA program.

ERAS let's PDs see if you've applied to both matches or just ACGME or AOA. There are a large number of people who don't match ACGME, and I can guarantee you it is not because PD feared that they might jump to the AOA match. If a program likes the applicant, why wouldn't they rank them? It doesn't hurt the program. The reason applicants don't get ranked is usually because they did something totally inappropriate the day of interview or the night before at the pre-interview dinner, are super awkward, didn't work hard on a audition and were perceieved as lazy, or some other major red flag or disparaging comment at the expense of a student/patient.

Go back and read what someone posted from the thread created by the 4th year in 2013, on post 1048. That will give you an idea of some of the shortcomings that exist with the process
 
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IH8ColdWeath3r said:
Paraphrasing what you heard from some PDs? And how many PD's have you spoken to? Being a DO puts you at a significant disadvantage, whether you want to believe that or not. Have you actually gone through 3rd and 4th year and gone through the trouble of contacting programs to set up rotations?

I don't think that it is misleading at ALL. First of all, my school just told everyone that Step I isn't mandatory in a meeting that we had prior to us leaving for fourth year audition. Then, the person making that statement retracted it, saying that it was only true for people who wanted to do primary care in Iowa. We had a residency panel of PDs come speak to us, and, go figure, the one guy on the panel who was an ACGME general surgery program director basically said that they only accept USMLE, because he knows that it's a better test. A lot of these programs have DO bias because they know that the COMLEX is a really poor exam, they really aren't concerned with how much of an OMM guru you are, and frankly, they find it amusing that we place so much emphasis on manipulation and yet our curriculum doesn't focus on the essentials of what make a good doctor longitudinally throughout our training (looking at imaging, US incorporated in the curriculum, physical diagnosis, etc.) I myself just contacted two respectable programs this week in a specialty that I am shooting for and was told that "we don't accept DO's" for auditions. So, yes, the number of programs that do this is far and few but they still exist and although I will admit that DO bias gap as been reduced, it still very much exists and to disregard it or minimize it makes you look, well....like you don't know what you're talking about or going by what you heard from "some PDs".

Lastly, if someone is a competitive applicant, then they will only apply to the ACGME match and forego the AOA match. The reason that people don't do that is because they are afraid that they might not match ACGME and are alright with just applying to both, even if it means they will be at a smaller, community AOA program as opposed to a larger academic ACGME program. If you're confident, and only auditioned at ACGME programs and have a competitive score, or a good letters from auditions, (and aren't overshooting or really reaching)...then you should match ACGME. There is no reason you shouldn't match and when given the choice, the majority of people prefer to match ACGME because then they know that program is viable and will not be subject to getting shut down with the merger - the same cannot be said about AOA program.

ERAS let's PDs see if you've applied to both matches or just ACGME or AOA. There are a large number of people who don't match ACGME, and I can guarantee you it is not because PD feared that they might jump to the AOA match. If a program likes the applicant, why wouldn't they rank them? It doesn't hurt the program. The reason applicants don't get ranked is usually because they did something totally inappropriate the day of interview or the night before at the pre-interview dinner, are super awkward, didn't work hard on a audition and were perceieved as lazy, or some other major red flag or disparaging comment at the expense of a student/patient.

Go back and read what someone posted from the thread created by the 4th year in 2013, on post 1048. That will give you an idea of some of the shortcomings that exist with the process
Click to expand...


I know what they said at the panel, I was there. The idea that you have to take the USMLE is a given, hence why a huge majority of our class took it. Yes some places don't take DOs for auditions, i.e the University of Iowa (outright) or Medical College of Wisconsin (more do to our class requirements than anything) but they take residents. I know and you might know that there are people in our class auditioning at very competitive ACGME programs in competitive specialties. Finally, I have problems with our school as well, but I think the curriculum was set up fine, yeah OMM took a lot of time out of the schedule and if you didn't care much for OMM you probably hated every second of that class. However, I do not feel there was some huge gap in education as compared with any of my other friends who are at MD schools. Maybe a little more bs classes and scheduling but overall not terrible.
 
screamin eagle said:
I know what they said at the panel, I was there. The idea that you have to take the USMLE is a given, hence why a huge majority of our class took it. Yes some places don't take DOs for auditions, i.e the University of Iowa (outright) or Medical College of Wisconsin (more do to our class requirements than anything) but they take residents. I know and you might know that there are people in our class auditioning at very competitive ACGME programs in competitive specialties. Finally, I have problems with our school as well, but I think the curriculum was set up fine, yeah OMM took a lot of time out of the schedule and if you didn't care much for OMM you probably hated every second of that class. However, I do not feel there was some huge gap in education as compared with any of my other friends who are at MD schools. Maybe a little more bs classes and scheduling but overall not terrible.
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I don't disagree with you. I thought the curriculum was fine and it you go back to my previous posts I said that curriculum was good for the most part with the exception of 2nd year. I actually think the school did a good job teaching OMM, just agree that there was too much of it and less emphasis on other things. The first post I made, I specifically said that if given the chance, I would attend DMU again.

Also, I am not saying that the class won't match ACGME. I think it is doable for a large marjority of the class. Just highlighting the fact that people should take the USMLE, especially those aiming for something competitive. Things like ACGME Derm, Ortho, ENT, and Optho are hard to come by, but everything else is doable. I think we are largely in agreement.
 
Took my waitlisted school a while to process my acceptance, so I finally officially gave up my seat here!
 
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Fingers crossed for more waitlist movement!! This is my #1 choice but I am in the second tier :(
 
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Anyone with under a 500 MCAT mind sharing if you were accepted and what your GPA was and if there was anything "unusual"/ nontraditional about your app?
 
Yay for WL movement! :D I'm getting pretty anxious over here... fingers crossed that they keep going
 
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Accepted today. 1st quartile. Good luck all!
 
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I know this is super late, but for the LORs -- are the MD/DO letters required? They phrased it slightly weird on the website and I can't tell if those letters are absolutely required or just recommended to have.
 
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