Des Moines University (DMU-COM) Discussion 2015 - 2016

[songl4a]

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[neuronerd16]

Has anyone heard anything about Waitlist rankings yet?

 

[campb767]

Has anyone heard anything about Waitlist rankings yet?

Nope, we are supposed to hear this coming week.

 

[htm10]

Just paid the second deposit it's getting real!

 

[IH8ColdWeath3r]

sure you will see less pathology, less diversity, and fewer patients, but to think it will affect your third year education in any way is overly ambitious. good pathology and diversity are important when you are doing 3 years in a single specialty and not one month. you aren't going to see even 1/15th of a field so who cares if you miss out some pathology.

one of my best friends was in mason city and she was first assist on surgeries, ran codes in the ICU, delivered 10+ babies, was involved in every code/trauma in the ER, intubated, did LPs, and much more. I was in Des Moines last year and didn't do any of that. there is a huge benefit to these small town rotations. but you are right, she completely hated mason city. But she did excellent on her auditions.

that being said, doing rotations in a small town lets you do a ton of cool stuff, but it doesn't teach you how to be a resident. if you are going into a specialty where the hierarchy is an important aspect of residency, this can be a huge disadvantage.

Current student here, glad to see the second year (lil'Sebastian) giving some honest advice. I happen to agree with him and what FrkyBgStok mentioned above. I'll provide my own take, which is brutally honest. There is some good, and some bad. Take it for what it is:

1st year curriculum is solid. It is well structured and the tests reflect the material in the lectures. 2nd year curriculum is awful, in terms of content and preparing you for boards. The lecturers are clinicians from the community who give lectures which pertain to CLINICAL (as opposed to basic science) medicine. How can I be expected to work up someone with hypercalcemia and transient HTN with paroxsysmal headaches, when I don't even know which diseases cause those specific endocrine derangements? Basically, the clinicians are teaching OMS-III material to a bunch of OMS-II students who are preparing for a basic science board exam. This makes studying for boards very challenging and requires a highly motivated individual. In my class, almost the entire class stated they would take STEP I at the beginning of second year. When it was all said and done, only about 50% of the class took it. The avg for those who took it was like 230 (very comparable to MD schools), but that is because some people blew it out of the water >240 (some 250's and even a few 260s) and some very low scores <220. You can extrapolate why that was the case based on what I mentioned above. So, in summary 2nd year makes it challenging to prepare and do well on STEP, which everyone shooting to be competitive for residency should take. I also took exception to the fact that many people would say, Oh many places accept a COMLEX.....some places do, but the number of places that solely accept one is rapidly dwindling and I would imagine will continue to get smaller with the merger....

3rd year - can't complain, I was one of the lucky ones when it came to my rotations. Got a good site, learned a lot, had a lot of inpatient exposure. I feel sorry for some of my classmates who were in rural Iowa at these small clinics. I agree with the above poster that in small towns they let you do more (in terms of procedures and hands on stuff), which is great because you are not behind a resident. This provides a unique and hands on learning experience. However, when it comes to inpatient exposure, the students who go out in to the boonies are at a disadvantage. I had a few of my classmates on some of my inpatient services and they were really clueless because they were not used to working with residents, rounding, writing notes. I think this is huge because the experience of doing, say....inpatient Internal Medicine vs outpatient (clinic) Internal Medicine for an entire month is HUGE. Also, I found the clinical affairs department to be rigid and not flexible at times. They are worried about losing rotation sites or pissing off the doctors that have agreed to take us as students, so they are very reluctant to change/move things around. This affected several of my friends as they were trying to set up auditions rotations in competitive places in the country, even though their board scores made them competitive applicants to that geographical part of the country. Thus, this is another roadblock to account for that is otherwise not mentioned. Just realize that if you are planning on going to a highly competitive specialty, or a semi competitive specialty that is ACGME accredited, in a desirable part of the country or a prestigious program, you have your work cut out for you. The focus of the school is for you to match (and they place an emphasis on primary care).

Lastly - I am deeply troubled by the mass exodus of faculty that have left since I started a few years ago. I won't go on to mention names, as I don't think it is appropriate. I don't know WHY these people left, maybe it was a coincidence that so many people left in such a short period of time. When that many professors/clinicians leave, especially some who were DMU alum and who dedicated their lives to our medical education, it really makes you wonder about the trajectory of the school.


Other cons: TOO MUCH emphasis on OMM. Seriously, we have too many hours of lab/lecture. We spent over 50+ hours (probably more) in OMM lab second year, but had 3 hours of dedicated lecture to reading xray/CT scans. These are skills that are ESSENTIAL to being a DOCTOR (as opposed to an osteopath) and you look like a fool on rotations when doctors ask you to read an xray, and you just go ughhhhhhhhhh...the 3 hours of x-ray/CT scan reading lecture was great, so you have to watch those a few times and do some self studying along the way to be proficient.. I just wish we had labs dedicated to looking at more examples and getting more practice than learning how to treat a rib tenderpoint?.... this again, goes to illustrate that there is some definite self teaching and some priorities that need to be re-arranged

Pros:
-Extremely well put together 1st year curriculum, with excellent faculty who love to teach and prepare you for OMS-II and the boards. All receptive and go out of their way to help by answering emails and even doing tutoring sessions before exams
-Our two pathologist literally lecture out of Pathoma and FA. They were the saving grace when it came to board studying 2nd year. They were the only lecturers who hammered home what you need to know, and I always looked forward to their few, but very important lectures in our 2nd year systems curriculum
-No dress code, pretty much wear what you want (don't look like a bum though)
-Lectures are recorded, which is phenomenal****
-Good Simulated patient experience throughout 1st and 2nd year curriculum
-Great facilities, including new additions to the library, gym
-Opportunities for research
-EXCELLENT surgical skills lab second year that really prepares you for 3rd year and beyond. Most schools don't have this.
-Housing is cheap, Des Moines is a perfect city for the medical school experience (just enough to do, not enough to be distracted)
-The student body. I love all of my classmates.
-Some flexibility when it comes to 3rd year and 4th year

****The school is receptive to criticism and they will work to make things better. My classmates have put in recommendations and they have been implemented each year. The class below me no longer had to take 3 exams on Fridays (anatomy written/practical/and clinical medicine)..This was BRUTAL to study for. They also changed the criteria to get honors on 3rd year rotations because previously they were notoriously difficult. The school has implemented new criteria for honors clerkship grades based on feedback they received. The school is by no means perfect, but I am happy with my education and the opportunity that I was given to come here. I am glad that they have been receptive to the student body's concerns and recommendations****

tl;dr; Mix of good and bad. Concern that so many faculty members have left in such a short time. 1st year curriculum is great. Way too much OMM and less emphasis on important things that matter (radiology, evidence based medicine). 2nd and 3rd year experience is somewhat of a crap shoot depending on your luck in the lottery and what connections you have. Be ready to be met with some resistance when it comes to rotations, maneuvering things around, and getting things approved, especially if they happens to be in the Des Moines area or states where we have affiliations with hospitals/providers. Ultimately, the school has a good reputation, but what you match into and where you go are entirely up to you as an individual and your work ethic and how motivated you are (and how well you do on your boards). We did have an impressive match this year with 5-6 people going Ortho, 3 ENT, 2 Urology, 1 Neurosurg, 1 Derm, few Gen Surg, & a handful of people doing Anesthesia & Rads for those wondering about specialties. I would caution everyone to do their own research, take everything any faculty member/student/adviser says to you with a grain of salt, take both STEP exams in addition to COMLEX, and get ready for a long, difficult, but rewarding journey.

 

[IH8ColdWeath3r]

One other piece of advice, since every year somebody asks about what books to buy, what to study, how to prepare the summer before first year.


DO NOT LOOK AT OR STUDY ANYTHING. Enjoy your summer, take as many vacations as you can. See all of your friends and family and RELAX so you start the year feeling refreshed. No amount of studying you do will help you when school starts. Classes have specific information and the first class, biochemistry, comes with it's own binder with course objectives. So, take time off and be sure to relax. Also, plan a nice trip between your OMS-I and OMS-II year.

 

[fatkitty]

@IH8ColdWeath3r Dude. Thanks so much for that. It's awesome to see that someone matched neurosurgery; I've been using that to compare different school's matchlists as I believe it's one of the most difficult residencies to obtain as a DO, and DMU hasn't matched one since 2010 or 11. And I think it's an interesting field.

Another question, I've been working in a research lab since graduating in 2014, and I stopped working as of a few months ago, and I worry about my studying skills atrophying before school starts in August and quickly falling behind. Would it really not benefit to pre-study since I already feel about as refreshed as I can be?

 

[IH8ColdWeath3r]

@IH8ColdWeath3r Dude. Thanks so much for that. It's awesome to see that someone matched neurosurgery; I've been using that to compare different school's matchlists as I believe it's one of the most difficult residencies to obtain as a DO, and DMU hasn't matched one since 2010 or 11. And I think it's an interesting field.

Another question, I've been working in a research lab since graduating in 2014, and I stopped working as of a few months ago, and I worry about my studying skills atrophying before school starts in August and quickly falling behind. Would it really not benefit to pre-study since I already feel about as refreshed as I can be?

I believe the person who matched neurosurgery did so through the Military match, just FYI. Also, no, your study skills won't "atrophy". Medical school will make you learn and relearn how to study. You will adjust your study skills and then finally come up with a system that works for you. No amount of studying you do the summer before will help nor will it replicate he volume of material that you take while in school. Trust me on this. Do not study before classes start. It will be chalked up as wasted time.

 

[IH8ColdWeath3r]

Also, I would not advise you to choose a school based on who matched into what specialty. Matching is highly dependent on the individual and how well you do on boards/audition rotations/interviews. When deciding on a school, I would say the five most important things are:

1. Board score/pass rates
2. Match rate
3. Curriculum (PBL vs Systems vs hybrid version of the two)
4. Location and where you see yourself being happy
5. COST***

 

[FrkyBgStok]

we actually had 2 match neurosurgery and the one who did the military match was deferred to do civilian neurosurgery residency.

 

[alfie94]

Match list

https://www.dmu.edu/do/program-strengths/residency-match-list/

 

[bbos]

1st year curriculum is solid. It is well structured and the tests reflect the material in the lectures. 2nd year curriculum is awful, in terms of content and preparing you for boards. The lecturers are clinicians from the community who give lectures which pertain to CLINICAL (as opposed to basic science) medicine. How can I be expected to work up someone with hypercalcemia and transient HTN with paroxsysmal headaches, when I don't even know which diseases cause those specific endocrine derangements? Basically, the clinicians are teaching OMS-III material to a bunch of OMS-II students who are preparing for a basic science board exam. This makes studying for boards very challenging and requires a highly motivated individual. In my class, almost the entire class stated they would take STEP I at the beginning of second year. When it was all said and done, only about 50% of the class took it. The avg for those who took it was like 230 (very comparable to MD schools), but that is because some people blew it out of the water >240 (some 250's and even a few 260s) and some very low scores <220. You can extrapolate why that was the case based on what I mentioned above. So, in summary 2nd year makes it challenging to prepare and do well on STEP, which everyone shooting to be competitive for residency should take. I also took exception to the fact that many people would say, Oh many places accept a COMLEX.....some places do, but the number of places that solely except one is rapidly dwindling and I would imagine will continue to get smaller with the merger....

Other cons: TOO MUCH emphasis on OMM. Seriously, we have too many hours of lab/lecture. We spent over 50+ hours (probably more) in OMM lab second year, but had 3 hours of dedicated lecture to reading xray/CT scans. These are skills that are ESSENTIAL to being a DOCTOR (as opposed to an osteopath) and you look like a fool on rotations when doctors ask you to read an xray, and you just go ughhhhhhhhhh...the 3 hours of x-ray/CT scan reading lecture was great, so you have to watch those a few times and do some self studying along the way to be proficient.. I just wish we had labs dedicated to looking at more examples and getting more practice than learning how to treat a rib tenderpoint?.... this again, goes to illustrate that there is some definite self teaching and some priorities that need to be re-arranged

this is very disconcerting to me, it seems like DMU sets up its students for an uphill battle just to prepare for USMLE, not to mention the difficulty of the USMLE itself. I'm hesitant to attend DMU after reading this. I know how important a high USMLE score is if one wants to specialize.

Unfortunately, the only other school I have been accepted to is Touro NY middtown and I can't find much info on their pre-clinica curriculum.

 

[IH8ColdWeath3r]

this is very disconcerting to me, it seems like DMU sets up its students for an uphill battle just to prepare for USMLE, not to mention the difficulty of the USMLE itself. I'm hesitant to attend DMU after reading this. I know how important a high USMLE score is if one wants to specialize.

Unfortunately, the only other school I have been accepted to is Touro NY middtown and I can't find much info on their pre-clinica curriculum.

Yeah, it sucks. I would say though, that, a majority of the schools have this problem. Some of my friends at MD schools even ran into this problem. Clinical faculty making 2nd year too clinical as opposed to focusing on basic science and board relevant material. Yes, it is a uphill climb, but it is doable. I did it myself, and many of my classmates also did (and did better than me). It just takes tremendous dedication and diligence. You have to start studying early second year, little by little to retain the important information - do Pathoma+FA+Uworld, and preferably go through Uworld a second time during dedicated board study time. You have to study for boards after second year exams, even though you may feel burnt out, but you can do it if you put your mind to it. It isn't impossible, it just takes some extra work and dedication (most people don't wanna be board studying 6+ months out from their exam, or studying for boards after they've taken a school exam - but that is what it takes, especially if you wanna plan properly for STEP). I have average intelligence so I couldn't do what some of my classmates did and started preparing shortly before spring break. I have a friend in Touro NY actually and his school has similar issues. He did well on step by doing everything I just mentioned to you.

Good luck, feel free to post any other questions you may have and I will try to answer them to the best of my knowledge.

 

[alfie94]

this is very disconcerting to me, it seems like DMU sets up its students for an uphill battle just to prepare for USMLE, not to mention the difficulty of the USMLE itself. I'm hesitant to attend DMU after reading this. I know how important a high USMLE score is if one wants to specialize.

Unfortunately, the only other school I have been accepted to is Touro NY middtown and I can't find much info on their pre-clinica curriculum.

I'm confused, aren't we all only supposed to only be holding one seat right now?

 

[bbos]

Yeah, it sucks. I would say though, that, a majority of the schools have this problem. Some of my friends at MD schools even ran into this problem. Clinical faculty making 2nd year too clinical as opposed to focusing on basic science and board relevant material. Yes, it is a uphill climb, but it is doable. I did it myself, and many of my classmates also did (and did better than me). It just takes tremendous dedication and diligence. You have to start studying early second year, little by little to retain the important information - do Pathoma+FA+Uworld, and preferably go through Uworld a second time during dedicated board study time. You have to study for boards after second year exams, even though you may feel burnt out, but you can do it if you put your mind to it. It isn't impossible, it just takes some extra work and dedication (most people don't wanna be board studying 6+ months out from their exam, or studying for boards after they've taken a school exam - but that is what it takes, especially if you wanna plan properly for STEP). I have average intelligence so I couldn't do what some of my classmates did and started preparing shortly before spring break. I have a friend in Touro NY actually and his school has similar issues. He did well on step by doing everything I just mentioned to you.

Good luck, feel free to post any other questions you may have and I will try to answer them to the best of my knowledge.

So if majority of the schools have this problem. Then it wouldn't really matter which school I attend. Should I then attend Touro because it is closer to home(3hrs drive) and is in the Northeast, where I want to eventually practice.

My concern then shifts to the Touro, which is a new school that hasn't graduated a class yet.

This is a very difficult decision

I'm confused, aren't we all only supposed to only be holding one seat right now?

that only applies to allopathic schools. Although I'm in a hurry to make the decision so I can pass one of my seats to someone on the waitlist

 

[epap]

So if majority of the schools have this problem. Then it wouldn't really matter which school I attend. Should I then attend Touro because it is closer to home(3hrs drive) and is in the Northeast, where I want to eventually practice.

My concern then shifts to the Touro, which is a new school that hasn't graduated a class yet.

This is a very difficult decision

that only applies to allopathic schools. Although I'm in a hurry to make the decision so I can pass one of my seats to someone on the waitlist

I would suggest reaching out to a student at Touro. They are typically the best resources for pros and cons of the school as well as answering questions about your fear of a it being a new school. In my opinion, and from what the countless doctors I work with tell me, what matters most in regards to residency and job placement is your personal effort and the connections you make. The advice I get is to do clinical rotations in the area you want to do residency-- which is easiest if you attend a school in that regional area. Most schools allow you to set up rotations close to home, but that is not a guarantee!

I think it is more important to focus on your own hard work rather than measuring your predicted success on the reputation of schools/professors. People have different experiences, good or bad, regardless of the school or professors!

Lastly, in my opinion, being further away from home in the stress of med school may be harder. But everyone is different

 

[IH8ColdWeath3r]

this is very disconcerting to me, it seems like DMU sets up its students for an uphill battle just to prepare for USMLE, not to mention the difficulty of the USMLE itself. I'm hesitant to attend DMU after reading this. I know how important a high USMLE score is if one wants to specialize.

Unfortunately, the only other school I have been accepted to is Touro NY middtown and I can't find much info on their pre-clinica curriculum.

Sorry, didn't know you meant NY Middtown. My friend is at Touro Harlem

 

[bbos]

Sorry, didn't know you meant NY Middtown. My friend is at Touro Harlem

Nothing to be sorry about and THANK YOU SO MUCH for the advice on how to prepare for the USMLE, it is invaluable to me.

 

[IH8ColdWeath3r]

Nothing to be sorry about and THANK YOU SO MUCH for the advice on how to prepare for the USMLE, it is invaluable to me.

Yeah, no problem!

 

[IH8ColdWeath3r]

I also want to just give a heads up after I read some comments on here that I think are not factual and really sugar coated. This isn't to discourage anyone from pursuing our school, or going to an osteopathic school, but really to give everyone a more realistic expectation of some of the roadblocks that lie ahead. I think it is factually incorrect for somebody to say something to the effect of:

"you can have opportunities to set up audition rotations in whatever specialty you want at any hospital across the country during your fourth year, such as ones that you want to complete your residency at. "

^ that statement is extremely misleading. Fact of the matter is, you wont be able to set up auditions in whatever specialty you choose, especially not at almost any hospital. If you want to pursue things like Ortho, ENT, or Ophtho, you are pretty much restricted to AOA programs because those specialties are extremely competitive. You won't be doing Ophtho at UCLA, regardless of your 265 board score, unless you know somebody or if there is a handshake outside of the match. If you don't believe me, try googling some of the programs and see how many DOs are at the big ACGME hospitals in those specialties. I would also say that in relatively less competitive specialties when compared to the ROAD specialties (although still competitive), it is still an uphill climb to land at a big teaching hospital at a prestigious institution. You need great board scores, and you also need to be realistic and realize that DO bias still exists. Read the forums, especially the DO ones about people going through the match process right now. Some people who auditioned were rock stars but were still told that because the program had not taken a DO before, they were reluctant to take one now. (This was mentioned about someone with great scores rotating at a big program in Denver). Hopefully over time, and with the merger, this bias will continue to depreciate as it has. However, again, I think that it is extremely unrealistic and misleading for someone who has not gone through the process to say that anyone can go into anything in any hospital. As a DO, you can still go to good programs, with good great faculty, good didactics, good ancillary staff, autonomy, and even programs that have good fellowship opportunities.

BUT, the fact is that, if you happen to try to match before the merger is complete, and you try going AOA, you run the risk of setting up auditions at programs that may be shutting down. This has already happened with several programs that applied for accreditation and did not meet the requirements. What does that say about those programs? Probably means that they are substandard. I'm sure not all of them are, but probably there were some glaring problems that prohibited them from getting accreditation. So, why would you want to waste a month doing an audition rotation there and the potentially another 3 years-5 years of residency if the training is substandard or if those programs run the risk of not meeting accreditation and run the risk of getting shut down before you even start (then you'll have to scramble). I personally find it worrisome to apply to AOA programs for this reason, but I know many of my classmates who are soley applying to AOA programs. At the same time, there are also legitimate concerns (if you're only applyin ACGME and foregoing to AOA match) about matching into a competitive ACGME specialty as a DO. Either way, I would still be worried about soley applying to AOA programs that run the risk of not existing now or in a few years with the merger.

Again, the point of my statement is not to bash all the AOA programs. There are a lot of good AOA programs out there that train competent physicians and do great with medical education. But, I just wanted to highlight some of the obstacles and realities to those who are not familiar with the process. And this goes back to my point about the original quote - setting up fourth year rotations at these bigger teaching hospitals and academic institutions is a challenge. Because, not only are you behind the people who attend that school & its affiliated teaching hospital, because they have preference with dates and audition spots, but you are also restricted by your board score (this applies to anyone, MD or DO). So, the first step is to first do well enough to meet the cutoffs for the programs & specialties that you want to apply to, and, at the same time, do research on the program and see how many DOs they've taken in their previous 3 residency classes. If the answer is 1-2, then you probably don't want to apply there because then you're just burning $$. This is the sad reality, but its the truth. I didn't apply to some of the more desirable states because they didn't have any DOs in almost all of the residency programs that I looked at for my specialty, and if they did the % was like 97% US MD, 3% DO. So, it made no sense to apply there. THIS is the reason why you see the majority of DO applicants concentrated in the Midwest. Yes, a lot of them have ties to the area because of family, but it is also significantly more difficult to get a residency in Cali or the Northeast, unless you have phenomenal scores and are applying to a less competitive specialty. Are there exceptions? Sure. But that's just what they are.

So, point being, if you are really hell bent on going to a big academic institution or a prestigious program, perhaps it would be best to wait it out and improve your medical school app and apply MD. Also, if you want to do something like ENT, Ortho, Ophtho, Urology, it may also be better to wait it out or try at US MD because if the merger does happen and those AOA programs become US MD, they will be opened up to more applicants from the MD pool, who, for now, are not allowed to apply to the AOA match and train at AOA programs and are soley restricted to ACGME programs. When the merger goes through, this advantage for DO's will no longer exist. That is not to say that there aren't a ton of good community programs out there, that, although not as big or prestigious as the big academic institutions or county hospitals, still train great physicians who can practice in a variety of clinical settings. But, if your goal is a competitive specialty and you are indifferent to the idea that it may be at a smaller AOA institution or at a less than desirable place in the country, then by all means apply and give it a shot and get in and done before the merger. Again, these are just some things to think about. Not trying to hurt anybodies feelings, my classmates, or future applicants. Just trying to speak truth to reality. I welcome any current DMU students who have done clinical rotations and gone through the application process or are currently in the app process (not 1st and 2nd years) to chime in on this.

 

[IH8ColdWeath3r]

So if majority of the schools have this problem. Then it wouldn't really matter which school I attend. Should I then attend Touro because it is closer to home(3hrs drive) and is in the Northeast, where I want to eventually practice.

My concern then shifts to the Touro, which is a new school that hasn't graduated a class yet.

This is a very difficult decision

that only applies to allopathic schools. Although I'm in a hurry to make the decision so I can pass one of my seats to someone on the waitlist

Yeah, I think if you want to stay close home, it would be easier to go to a school that is in the vicinity. Plus, it's nice to have family around. Can't tell you how many times 1st or 2nd year I wished I could go home to see my family, even just for a few days but couldn't because of the distance. I also think it is very risky to go to some of the newer DO schools that are not established. If I were in your shoes, I would call and ask about 3rd year, and if they have enough places for students to rotate at. I would ask about what institutions/hospitals you would be rotating rotating at, and if you have a mix of inpatient and outpatient exposure vs mostly one or the other. How would the process work about selecting where you get to rotate (lottery, class rank, mixture of both? If they don't have concrete answers to those questions, I would be very reluctant to go there. That is essentially the big problem. DO schools don't have affiliated teaching hospitals and thus 3rd year education is not standardized like it is across the board at some MD institutions. 1st and 2nd year are, because each school teaches essentially the same curriculum & material and students use the same resources to study for boards, but 3rd year is rather different in terms of experience. One person's internal medicine experience in a rural clinic is far different than another persons in a big hospital (again, both have pro's and con's that were mentioned by FrkBigStok above.

If I were in your shoes though, I would lean going somewhere established vs a brand new place, especially if they don't give definitive answers on the way rotations are set up.

 

[epap]

Yeah, I think if you want to stay close home, it would be easier to go to a school that is in the vicinity. Plus, it's nice to have family around. Can't tell you how many times 1st or 2nd year I wished I could go home to see my family, even just for a few days but couldn't because of the distance. I also think it is very risky to go to some of the newer DO schools that are not established. If I were in your shoes, I would call and ask about 3rd year, and if they have enough places for students to rotate at. I would ask about what institutions/hospitals you would be rotating rotating at, and if you have a mix of inpatient and outpatient exposure vs mostly one or the other. How would the process work about selecting where you get to rotate (lottery, class rank, mixture of both? If they don't have concrete answers to those questions, I would be very reluctant to go there. That is essentially the big problem. DO schools don't have affiliated teaching hospitals and thus 3rd year education is not standardized like it is across the board at some MD institutions. 1st and 2nd year are, because each school teaches essentially the same curriculum & material and students use the same resources to study for boards, but 3rd year is rather different in terms of experience. One person's internal medicine experience in a rural clinic is far different than another persons in a big hospital (again, both have pro's and con's that were mentioned by FrkBigStok above.

If I were in your shoes though, I would lean going somewhere established vs a brand new place, especially if they don't give definitive answers on the way rotations are set up.

Just to play devils advocate-- ACOM is a new school and does have an affiliated teaching hospital!

 

[IH8ColdWeath3r]

Just to play devils advocate-- ACOM is a new school and does have an affiliated teaching hospital!

Not trying to be a jerk but, go ahead and list off the # of DO schools that have affiliated teaching hospitals. I bet I have more fingers on my two hands the number of hospitals you will be able to come up with. By affiliated, I mean those that actually take the ENTIRE med school class to rotate with them (MSU is the only one I'm aware of). We have two big "teaching hospitals" in Des Moines, but they have no affiliation with DMU and take only about 20% of our entire class, so I wouldn't categorize them as an actual teaching hospital since it isn't affiliated with the school nor does it take the entire class.

There are exceptions to everything, but they are just exceptions. The big difference with DO & MD schools is the lack of teaching hospital and unstable or revolving clinical rotations as more and more schools open up and seek out preceptors or hospitals where it just so happens that students from other, already established schools rotate at. (This happens, believe it or not). Either those hospitals take the new students that are from the new school in their geographic area and can no longer take students from the other institution, or vice versa.

 

[songl4a]

.

 

[moy505]

Hey all,

weren't we suppose to get an email by today which stated where we were on the wait list?

 

[campb767]

Hey all,

weren't we suppose to get an email by today which stated where we were on the wait list?

Yeah I spoke with them yesterday and they said it will be going out today.

 

[IH8ColdWeath3r]

Based on post 1012, isn't it advisable to start step 1 studying asap?

ASAP as in the beginning of 1st year? No. It is very low yield to "study" for step 1 as a incoming 1st year student. You don't have the basic knowledge in Anatomy, histology, micro, and physiology to even begin to understand or piece together a board question that riddled with information that could pertain to multiple of the disciplines I just listed. First year, just study to learn as much as you can and build a solid foundation for second year. Second year, begin studying for board early as opposed to late. I see no utility in studying for boards 1st year. Ask around, the majority of medical students who've been through the process would agree.

 

[neuronerd16]

Just got my quartile ranking from DMU via e-mail! Does anyone know how many quartiles there are & how far in previous years have gone into the waitlist?

 

[ktgk]

Just got my quartile ranking from DMU via e-mail! Does anyone know how many quartiles there are & how far in previous years have gone into the waitlist?

Quartile, by definition, would mean there are four.

I've heard that some years they don't get through the 1st, other years they've dipped into the 2nd.

 

[neuronerd16]

Quartile, by definition, would mean there are four.

I've heard that some years they don't get through the 1st, other years they've dipped into the 2nd.

Oh wow - dumb me. Thanks for the info!

 

[campb767]

Anyone know about when we should be hearing for acceptances off the alternate list?

 

[ktgk]

Anyone know about when we should be hearing for acceptances off the alternate list?

I emailed them about this a while back, they said they'd start making acceptances off the alternate list after the final seat deposit deadline (which was May 2).

 

[IH8ColdWeath3r]

.

 

[tfa2246]

I realize no one can know for sure how many people will get off the alternate list, but I'm just looking for some advice. DMU is my top choice and my email said I'm in the first quartile. I currently have one acceptance, and the deposit for that is due within a week. Are my chances good enough of getting off the list that I could possibly not submit the deposit, and just hope that I'll eventually be accepted here? I realize it's not the best idea, but I'd like to avoid losing a deposit if at all possible :/

 

[BugzBunnyDoc]

not worth it. Go put the deposit down for the other school. The money you'll be spending on the deposit is nothing compared to med school cost overall. Plus God Forbid you don't get the acceptance from dmucom later on, then you'll have to spend that much money and more on applications and interviews. Don't take that much of a risk


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[buttfrogs]

I realize no one can know for sure how many people will get off the alternate list, but I'm just looking for some advice. DMU is my top choice and my email said I'm in the first quartile. I currently have one acceptance, and the deposit for that is due within a week. Are my chances good enough of getting off the list that I could possibly not submit the deposit, and just hope that I'll eventually be accepted here? I realize it's not the best idea, but I'd like to avoid losing a deposit if at all possible :/

I wouldn't take that risk. Whatever amount your deposit is -- $500? $1000? -- losing that is going to hurt and you'll imagine all the ways you may have better spent that money. But like the commenter above me said, that amount is just a tiny fraction of the cost of medical school. Take your guaranteed acceptance and keep your fingers crossed for DMU.

 

[campb767]

Has anybody been offered an acceptance off of the alternate list yet?

 

[Snoopy528]

Never mind.

 

[campb767]

Has anybody been offered an acceptance off of the alternate list yet?

Anybody ????

 

[Sai111394]

@IH8ColdWeath3r do you think the 2nd year curriculum will change since you said they are receptive to student Evals and also with the fact that the merger is occurring and people will have to take the USMLE? My main concern is board prep and rotations, and it makes me question whether I should be reapplying.

 

[calcgmat]

I was talking to a recent DMU student that directed me to this from the 2012-2013 DMU thread. Is this still a problem:

Hi all,

This is my first (and probably last) post ever, but I thought I'd chuck in some opinions on this matter being that I am a DMU 4th year. Having reflected on my time in medical school as I get toward the end, I thought I'd pass on any personal information I can. The advice I have is really more for pre-meds about to head into med school. These are just my opinions and my experience, so take them for what they are. I agree that I doubt you'll hear from too many 4th years because it is a busy time, and quite frankly you lose your want to turn around and pass on information as you finish things up. Sorry if things are disjointed here, but hopefully I keep on track. Its late and I'm tired.

Just to disclaim based on some other posts I've read in this thread: My board scores for steps 1 and 2 were solid, and actually more than adequate for my chosen field (both USMLE and COMLEX). I was accepted to both MD and DO schools (multiple of each) and chose a DO school...I'm choosing an MD residency (more on this later). My MSPE and letters of rec were also much more than adequate for my field, and came from people well respected in their fields who I worked hard to have an opportunity to learn from. These were clinicians and researchers outside Iowa and far from the limited scope of what DMU had to offer. I'm stating all this because there is invariably someone out there just itching to say my comments will come from a place of animosity because I didn't live up to some self professed image of who I should be, or because someone wronged me, or whatever the individual may conjure to make my feelings about my situation null and void and theirs more crucial to the counter argument. That's fine, and yes, someone will do it. I'd like to reiterate, though, that I am evaluating my situation after creating the best possible scenario for myself in my settings, and quite frankly based on the residency interview trail, it worked. I also intentionally haven't vented on the internet for the reason that you just never know how you'll feel at the end. In addition, I am one of those people who left the state of Iowa pretty much immediately for 3rd and 4th year so if that pertains to you, I'd also offer the thoughts in this post. Lastly, I'm someone who should be doing this job for a living, so don't go reading in to my comments as though I have some grave short circuit in my life decision making ability and you have all the worldly answers and Freudian intuition I seek (I know there is at least one of you out there) because I assure you, my decision to go in to medicine could not have come from a deeper and more personal place. Now for something completely different.

First year, objectively speaking, was fine. I agree OMT is just too much of a priority throughout the first 2 years, being that 90% of what you need for boards (that you will actually know the answers to) is carried by the 1st year alone, and well over 90% of the DO's I've met in the field within 5 years out of practice are more likely to mutter "OMT what now?" There just isn't time to use it in the hospital unless OMT is what you do. DMU also insists on completing more than double the number of hours required by the DO accreditation bodies (this was the case when I saw the guidelines in 1st year), which while I am all for knowledge, is a bit unnecessary when you're already drinking from a fire hose.

The other classes were what you made of them. Either you studied hard and learned, or you didn't. Every school, from what I understand, asks nit-picking questions because they are basically training you to respect details. While I did not always agree with this particular way of teaching, I took what I needed and wanted from 1st year. The biggest complaint I have in 1st year was a mediocre 5 week pathology course full of thousands upon thousands of slides with no explanation and poor lecturing capacity at best (with exception given to 1 or 2 pathologists). It was so surprising to me to hear from many other friends at other medical schools that their pathology course would not start until 2nd year, or they tacked each system pathology on to the systems courses, or that pathology ran an entire semester. Whatever the case, I remember studying for USMLE and realizing there were pathology "buzzwords" I had never even heard of, and it was not for lack of studying the material I was given.

Second year was where things started falling apart for DMU's curriculum. Systems were routinely and almost entirely taught by multiple guest lecturers in a single unit, sometimes for an entire course and 2-3 tests worth of information. There was little consistency in goals set for a course, and even a day to day lecture, and poor follow through in terms of lecturers sticking to an agreed upon topic. Many times lectures were sliced and diced to quiz a student on what clinicians knew was overtly useless information (I can say that now having been through 2 years of clinical months). In my personal opinion, DMU would serve better to dismantle the entire curriculum for 2nd year as well as the pathology course in 1st year and completely rebuild them, as the way they are now does not afford adequate teaching to students. The end of 2nd year was, for my class, riddled with single-test classes like derm and ophtho which not only interfered with board studying in a major way for many of my classmates and myself, but also could have easily been done in the beginning of the year. Additionally, if a student fails the only test in a single-test class, one can imagine the ripple effect that is felt later on in the year and summer before taking step 1. And yes, this happened to several people in the class. And no, guy who is looking for something to comment on, I was not one of them.

I'm not saying people did not do well on step 1, but it certainly was not without undo stress. OMT also becomes a joke toward the end, as the entire second semester is not a part of board material. This was actually told to me by a faculty member and later proved to me on both step 1 and 2 of COMLEX. They theoretically give you enough time to study for boards assuming you are okay with not having too much of a break. This said, though, when you are seeing stuff sometimes for the first time when studying for boards, you start to realize the holes in the floor of second year might be catching up with you.

I left as soon as I could for 3rd year. Sorry, but I'm not going to get specific about where I went based on my personal preference of anonymity. I will say, I took it upon myself to work incredibly hard to make sure I met people who could help me with residency letters, solid base knowledge, etc. (again, none were supplied by DMU). While DMU had spots reserved where I went, the physician staffing was not done by DMU, nor did they ever do a site visit or know personally any but 1 of the clinicians I worked with.

The process for rotations is dismal at DMU. A class of over 200 people are, for lack of a better description, thrown to the wolves. In our 2nd year we were actually told at one point, "We don't know where our sites are because they keep changing...we won't know where you can go until we get to January [the time of the lottery]." Add to this that 12 people actually did not get any of the rotation spots they had ranked out of 6 rankings each, and I hope that begins to impress upon you all how disorganized and flimsy an organization has to be to not only not know where all of its future doctors are going to learn their craft, but also how they will get there, where they will live, who will teach them, what curriculum will be taught, etc, etc, etc. If you don't know where a student will be, how can you control or monitor what they will be learning?

And to those talking about not being able to find specifics on out of state sites on DMU's website, its because they don't exist for the above reasons.

I was speechless because in my interviews for medical school I specifically asked if rotation exposure would be an issue in terms of out of state availability and curriculum structure. I was reassured I would be taken care of and well prepared compared to my peers, and that I would have the opportunity to leave the state with no hang ups at all. This wasn't the case, of course. I was lucky to get out, not ushered out.

I have worked now with other students from over a dozen medical schools both MD and DO and can tell you, DMU doesn't help you look better than the guy or gal standing next to you. I studied harder than most in school, but you can't learn what you don't know is out there. Fact is, with no standard rotation curriculum (not even a procedure requirement), there is no way to know if you are learning the right things if none of the preceptors are held to a standard. I was lucky because I was held to a standard far above many of the other sites due to being a part of an actual hospital system. I also had didactic sessions on a regular basis. I say this and everyone at other schools laugh. But as a student I can actually graduate from DMU without ever setting foot in an actual hospital, without ever doing any inpatient or ER rotations, and without ever attending a single didactic teaching lecture in my 3rd or 4th year...I don't care who you are or what you want to do with your life, that is concerning.

As an example of the breakdown in communication between administration and the student body, the "bring em back to Iowa" campaign really does exist, and was never mentioned to medical students until at least 2 years after its inception. The amount of out of state quality spots which disappeared virtually overnight from one year to the next was astounding to say the least. Additionally, being called "irrelevant" as a school at the biggest national DO education administration meeting in the country because your reputation has been reduced to ash by politics (yes, the former president is the past and present governor of Iowa...bring em back indeed) and poor leadership is a mar on the school's thin skin which won't be healing anytime soon. Add to that the fact that most of the advisers who are actual practicing physicians have never spent any significant time outside the state of Iowa for practice (and most went to DMU), and you can start to get an idea of how the administration was formed and chooses to practice. Additionally, from friends of mine I have heard that rotations in 3rd AND 4th year in central Iowa are glorified shadowing sessions in which your time, effort, and money is grossly mistreated.

As far as 4th year, all of my statements have been further bolstered due to my exposure to some of the best hospitals in the country for my field. I have spent months of my 4th year with people whose names come before protocols we use on patients on a day to day basis. And likewise, I have spent months at the schools where they teach and practice. I can say that while every school has its flaws, students at many of the MD schools/hospitals I have been spending time in are proving far more pleased with their schooling situations.

Now to some overall reflections concerning residency prospects, etc.

Just to dispel a quick myth because it has become a pet peeve of mine: do not fall in to the trap of believing that because you are at a DO school you treat your patient in a "whole body and respectful" manner that is some space age foreign idea to an MD. Quite frankly, its insulting and ignorant towards all physicians. People who taught my classes had all kinds of case examples of why DO's were better than MD's and that DO's really cared about their patients because one time they worked with an MD who was a jerk. Well, as we know because we are supposed to be trained as scientists too, a case study is the weakest link of proof in the grand pyramid of the scientific method and experimentation. I only mention this because I've seen too many people be insulted by this idea as I've been on the road. Okay, down from soapbox.

As for the future of training in the DO world, there is already a lack of fellowships and residencies alike being further disrupted by increasing class sizes and campuses far outpacing their MD counterparts and residency facilitation. If all the DO's went in to DO residencies, as it seems the DO administrations want us to with how they chatter, there would be enough spots for only a select few. Add to that the notorious lack of case load and unsavory locales, and you have a recipe for disaster. But that won't be the case afterall, as the AOA and ACOGME have even recently been taking 3 steps back regarding the new residency guidelines. This is evident in the newly formed pact for the ACGME to take over umbrella auditing and guideline control of all ACOGME residencies. That means the MD body will now set the guidelines for all residencies in the United States. As such, expect to see more of the DO residencies evaporate after 2015 and the already miniscule pool of residency spots for DO's to dip ever closer to the big goose egg. This has shown people like me who are in the field that a DO residency is unreliable and unpredictable, much like DMU's schooling, and not something I want to gamble with my future on. Hence my entrance to the MD world. And we can talk all day about how MD training is superior for residency if for nothing else having access to major centers, major research programs, major county and state funding, and major pathology variations.

My advice on training: don't limit yourself. You really want to do rural medicine in a single doc practice? Fantastic then that's what you should do. We need more like you anyway in this country. But don't be the guy or gal out there in the sticks who misses the 20 year old with HSP because you never saw it in someone older than 12 and so it just must be something else. You become good at what you do when you see the pathology and hone the instincts with case load and diversity in mentors. I agree with liberal doc that if you can't get in to your state MD school (which the lower tuition alone should be incentive enough), then get a masters and try again later. Apply to a broader MD base. Do some research, or better yet, work an interesting job for a bit. Trust me when I say interesting stuff in your background gets your foot in the door to prove how hard you can work on an away rotation. It is useful beyond what you ever thought possible when you get to the end of the line. Live somewhere unique or take a backpacking trip or get another degree/major. Just do something else and try again the next year. For all I've seen, going to DMU just to go to medical school isn't worth it.

I hope I have been able to shed some light on some concerns for people. These are all things I wish people had told me long ago. Every school is going to tell you not to worry, but the fact is, you really should not be doing anything but learning in your 4 years. Finding places to live and worrying about how much of your loan money is going to be needed for 80 mile commutes in 3rd year is asking too much of a med student. Of course, there are people reading this who won't take no for an answer and just want to be in medical school at 22 years old fresh out of college. But believe me, there is time...lots of time. Plenty of my colleagues are in their mid-30's coming out of medical school and doing great (other medical schools of course). Take the time to do something interesting and impress the places that can give you far more than just a piece of paper with your name on it. Unfortunately, I feel like at DMU you are going to pay 250000 big ones for that piece of paper instead of a memorable experience, and that is no way to spend 4 years of your life.

I realize someone is going to probably hiss and spit back and want to point out all the finer points of my argument and how bitter they sound, but I'm not a bitter person. I, like everyone else, only get one shot at this and mine turned out crappy. I just don't want others to make the same mistake. But believe what you want to, because there are some who just can't be convinced until they are in the hole and on the other side, so for those, good luck.

It is important to understand that DMU is at best in flux right now because of new administration. Maybe it will be great in 5 or 10 years, maybe it will be worse, but I know flux is not where I'd want to start my medical career.

 

[IH8ColdWeath3r]

@IH8ColdWeath3r do you think the 2nd year curriculum will change since you said they are receptive to student Evals and also with the fact that the merger is occurring and people will have to take the USMLE? My main concern is board prep and rotations, and it makes me question whether I should be reapplying.

I think the faculty listens to recommendations. For starters, they changed the first year exam schedule after my class gave feedback so that on Fridays, students wouldn't have to take the Anatomy practical, anatomy written, and clinical medicine written exam back to back to back. 3 exams at once was brutal, took up a 5 hour block of the students time, and overall it was just painful to prepare for 3 exams. The school did away with this and now the 3 aren't administered on the same day, which was nice of them and relieving for students. They also have in the works to make it easier to honors 3rd year rotations, since it is quite difficult to do that now. This is also a step in the right direction after student feedback. So, I think the school does a good job of listening and they constantly administer anonymous surveys to get adequate feedback while at the same time protecting student anonymity.

With that being said, there is no way of telling if or how they would completely change second year curriculum. If I were to venture a guess, I would say that no, they probably won't. Doing so would be such a massive undertaking. They would have to ask all of the physicians from the community to not come to the school? or make their lectures more board relevant, which, for a bunch of practicing clinicians, is very difficult to do that for level 1 of the boards. They would need much more emphasis on the things taught by our two on staff pathologists (which do a great job of teaching to boards), and affording them with additional lectures. Doing so would require them to cut down on lectures given by clinicians. This could work, but again, seems like a massive undertaking.

That being said, I want to reiterate the fact that pre-clinical grades really do not matter. No body cares that you got a B- in anatomy. Residency programs, by in large, do not care about your class rank or that you got a C on a class. They care about your board score. It is just like getting into medical school. It means nothing to have straight As and be at the top of the class when you fail or barely pass boards. To them, it would just indicated that either a) the curriculum is watered down or b) you struggle with standardized exams (This they care about because they don't want you to flunk the inservice exams when you become a resident).

It is similar to someone having a 4.0, but then getting a 20 on the MCAT vs an applicant who has a 38 MCAT but is applying to medical school with a 3.0 GPA. I would venture to say that the person with the 38 MCAT would receive many more interviews and have more opportunities open to them vs the person with a 4.0 GPA and a 20 MCAT. I think a lot of incoming students get too overwhelmed with pre-clinical grades and stress themselves out unnecessarily. Anyone can do well by adequately studying for boards. I have already highlighted how to do that in my previous comments.

 

[Sai111394]

I think the faculty listens to recommendations. For starters, they changed the first year exam schedule after my class gave feedback so that on Fridays, students wouldn't have to take the Anatomy practical, anatomy written, and clinical medicine written exam back to back to back. 3 exams at once was brutal, took up a 5 hour block of the students time, and overall it was just painful to prepare for 3 exams. The school did away with this and now the 3 aren't administered on the same day, which was nice of them and relieving for students. They also have in the works to make it easier to honors 3rd year rotations, since it is quite difficult to do that now. This is also a step in the right direction after student feedback. So, I think the school does a good job of listening and they constantly administer anonymous surveys to get adequate feedback while at the same time protecting student anonymity.

With that being said, there is no way of telling if or how they would completely change second year curriculum. If I were to venture a guess, I would say that no, they probably won't. Doing so would be such a massive undertaking. They would have to ask all of the physicians from the community to not come to the school? or make their lectures more board relevant, which, for a bunch of practicing clinicians, is very difficult to do that for level 1 of the boards. They would need much more emphasis on the things taught by our two on staff pathologists (which do a great job of teaching to boards), and affording them with additional lectures. Doing so would require them to cut down on lectures given by clinicians. This could work, but again, seems like a massive undertaking.

That being said, I want to reiterate the fact that pre-clinical grades really do not matter. No body cares that you got a B- in anatomy. Residency programs, by in large, do not care about your class rank or that you got a C on a class. They care about your board score. It is just like getting into medical school. It means nothing to have straight As and be at the top of the class when you fail or barely pass boards. It is similar to someone having a 4.0, but then getting a 20 on the MCAT vs an applicant who has a 38 MCAT but is applying to medical school with a 3.0 GPA. I would venture to say that the person with the 38 MCAT would receive many more interviews and have more opportunities open to them vs the person with a 4.0 GPA and a 20 MCAT. I think a lot of incoming students get too overwhelmed with pre-clinical grades and stress themselves out unnecessarily. Anyone can do well by adequately studying for boards. I have already highlighted how to do that in my previous comments.

My concern isn't with grades, it's more so with rotations preparing me to be competitive for residency. your reviews on clinicals concern me. If I'm paying $47k a year for subpar rotations and inadequate lectures during second year, it makes me reconsider

 

[IH8ColdWeath3r]

My concern isn't with grades, it's more so with rotations preparing me to be competitive for residency. your reviews on clinicals concern me. If I'm paying $47k a year for subpar rotations and inadequate lectures during second year, it makes me reconsider

Yeah, I think that those are legitimate concerns. Again, I don't think rotations are a DMU problem, I think that is a DO problem due to lack of an established teaching hospital at DO schools. The only way to go around this, if it really concerns you, is to go to an MD school with an affiliated teaching hospital if that option is open to you.

I will say that I think the downfall with rotations is during 3rd year, but DO schools typically have more flexibility during 4th year which is nice. It sucks that you have to do all the leg work and set up your own rotations, but if you are early, thorough, and have good board scores, you can secure pretty good audition rotations and even elective rotations.

So, I'd say the advantage with DO would be in 4th year due to flexibility, but the downfall is 3rd year due to lack of a teaching hospital. The unfortunate and major downfall of third year is if you are one of the unfortunate students who gets unlucky and has to do the majority of your rotations at clinics and you get little inpatient exposure (In my humble opinion). I don't think that there is a substitute for being at a big hospital, being around residents, seeing how they operate, rounding with them and the attending, and writing notes and presenting to the attending. I was fortunate to have this opportunity, and worked with some of my classmates who only had limited exposure to inpatient medicine. I was happy with my good fortune and would not have wanted it the other way around, but that is just my personal opinion.

Again, if you ask some of my classmates, I'm sure they'd say they preferred the rural/clinic rotations with no residents because it was just them one-on-one with the attending and they got to do more hands on stuff/procedures, but I preferred being inpatient and learning from residents (even though I didn't get to do many procedures).

Perhaps you can take a look at what someone posted on the last page from a review by a previous student. I think maybe that will give you a better idea and also address your concerns as well since my opinion is n=1.

 

[Sai111394]

Yeah, I think that those are legitimate concerns. Again, I don't think rotations are a DMU problem, I think that is a DO problem due to lack of an established teaching hospital at DO schools. The only way to go around this, if it really concerns you, is to go to an MD school with an affiliated teaching hospital if that option is open to you.

I will say that I think the downfall with rotations is during 3rd year, but DO schools typically have more flexibility during 4th year which is nice. It sucks that you have to do all the leg work and set up your own rotations, but if you are early, thorough, and have good board scores, you can secure pretty good audition rotations and even elective rotations.

So, I'd say the advantage with DO would be in 4th year due to flexibility, but the downfall is 3rd year due to lack of a teaching hospital. The unfortunate and major downfall of third year is if you are one of the unfortunate students who gets unlucky and has to do the majority of your rotations at clinics and you get little inpatient exposure (In my humble opinion). I don't think that there is a substitute for being at a big hospital, being around residents, seeing how they operate, rounding with them and the attending, and writing notes and presenting to the attending. I was fortunate to have this opportunity, and worked with some of my classmates who only had limited exposure to inpatient medicine. I was happy with my good fortune and would not have wanted it the other way around, but that is just my personal opinion.

Again, if you ask some of my classmates, I'm sure they'd say they preferred the rural/clinic rotations with no residents because it was just them one-on-one with the attending and they got to do more hands on stuff/procedures, but I preferred being inpatient and learning from residents (even though I didn't get to do many procedures).

Perhaps you can take a look at what someone posted on the last page from a review by a previous student. I think maybe that will give you a better idea and also address your concerns as well since my opinion is n=1.

How would you optimize getting a hospital based rotation with largely inpatient and exposure to residents? I wouldn't mind going out of Iowa as I would like to experience living in different parts of the Midwest but just so I know for future reference any tips?

 

[IH8ColdWeath3r]

How would you optimize getting a hospital based rotation with largely inpatient and exposure to residents? I wouldn't mind going out of Iowa as I would like to experience living in different parts of the Midwest but just so I know for future reference any tips?

Really hard to optimize. It is more luck than anything, since it is based on a lottery system. I just happened to get lucky. I think now the school factors class rank, and you can write one letter to your top site. So if you write a great letter or so dwell on classes it appears you may have preference over someone who didn't write a letter or is lower in clas rank. This is new though and for my class it wasn't like that, just purely based on lottery and letters.

 

[LUCPM]

How would you optimize getting a hospital based rotation with largely inpatient and exposure to residents? I wouldn't mind going out of Iowa as I would like to experience living in different parts of the Midwest but just so I know for future reference any tips?

You can do this by setting up your 4th yr rotations at teaching hospitals with associated residency programs. Start contacting them early, like in early January , and follow up with them if you don't hear from them right away. Many university hospitals use VSAS for visiting students, so you can visit their websites to check deadline.

To get more exposure to inpatient, you can do your 4th yr electives in IM, ICU, etc.

Overall, be proactive and expect to do most of leg work when you set up your 4th yr rotations.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[naed0194]

How good are rotation sites in Michigan compare to the Iowa sites? How competative are those? I'm from Michigan and hope to do rotation in MI?

 

[IH8ColdWeath3r]

Yeah, my post was specifically in regard to 3rd year. It is best to take advantage of fourth year and use the flexibility as an opportunity to set up rotations at places where you know you'll learn a lot and get good hands on experience. This is harder to do during 3rd year because most places are set based on the lottery system and DMU's lack of flexibility or failure to accommodate to the student's request. This is the biggest bone that I have to pick with the school - I find it unfair that we have to do all the leg work to set things up but when we do, they have the right to refuse to accept the rotation or decline it. Most of the time they don't, but sometimes they do.

 

[neuronerd16]

Any movement on the WL?