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Can anybody chime in on these schools: ATSU-SOMA, AZCOM, Western (Lebanon)
- Thread starter azhockey
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Having interviewed at AZCOM, I would have to say it is a very good school. It took me a while to decide between AZCOM and the school I ultimately chose, so I'm going to chime in and say you should go to AZCOM. Between SOMA and AZCOM, it will give you the best opportunities for early clinical exposure (working with standardized dummies!), great research opportunities, good rotation sites at large hospitals (and it will be closer to "home" for you as well), and what seems to be a very good curriculum. Overall, a great school. I don't know much about Western-Lebanon to be honest, but I would say AZCOM will give you more opportunities than ATSU-SOMA. Just my $.02.
Of course, you should go wherever you liked best. If you liked SOMA more, then go there. However, I wouldn't worry too much about "feeling like a number" at AZCOM - I just can't imagine a medical school (except carribean) where that would be true.
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It sounds like you are from AZ, so I'm not sure how much you would like the climate here in Oregon/ Today we started at a low of 28 and will probably make it to a high of 55. Lebanon is a pretty small town, population less than 15K. when you drive in it's all farm land for 10 miles. The "campus" is on the edge of town, but all in all the town is not very big. I couldn't comment on the other schools, as I cancelled my interviews for both of them.
I have done a ton of research on SOMA so here are my thoughts:
Clinical exposure in 2nd year is 8 hours a week (maybe different depending on CHC but I was told 8-12). Anatomy is prosected, but if you want to fully dissect you can. This year they had a surgery club I believe that spent extra time in the lab to dissect. SOMA has an open-door policy as well, the students all told me they had excellent access to faculty and could walk into anyone's office basically anytime.
AZCOM is a great school, and will have more research opportunities available than SOMA, but I don't agree that you will have better early clinical experiences there. SOMA does more simulations first year than any other school I interviewed at, and second year has significant clinic time.
If you are concerned about location for years 2-4 and the school's reputation, choose AZCOM. The CHC model is not for everyone. AZCOM can probably keep more doors open because of the research opportunities.
Clinical exposure in 2nd year is 8 hours a week (maybe different depending on CHC but I was told 8-12). Anatomy is prosected, but if you want to fully dissect you can. This year they had a surgery club I believe that spent extra time in the lab to dissect. SOMA has an open-door policy as well, the students all told me they had excellent access to faculty and could walk into anyone's office basically anytime.
AZCOM is a great school, and will have more research opportunities available than SOMA, but I don't agree that you will have better early clinical experiences there. SOMA does more simulations first year than any other school I interviewed at, and second year has significant clinic time.
If you are concerned about location for years 2-4 and the school's reputation, choose AZCOM. The CHC model is not for everyone. AZCOM can probably keep more doors open because of the research opportunities.
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SOMA will actually give you better access to early clinical exposure. We have patient actor simulations regularly, dummy simulations regularly, and a Physical Exam class that we attend 4 hours per week. I'm 3 months in and I've already learned to suture, do a complete MSK exam, fundoscopic exam, ear exam, vision screening, most of the neurological exam (that's the block we're in right now), and complete history. SOMA actually has the reputation of producing very talented clinicians (which says something considering I'm in just the 5th class).
About our curriculum: it is a bit different in that it's far more integrated than any other school out there that I'm aware of. It may not be for everyone. We don't do the traditional 2+2 model, but rather a 1+3 where we really hit the books hard 1st year, get a lot of years 1 and 2 out of the way, and create blocks of time for real, hands on clinical experience starting 2nd year. It's true that we spend a good chunk of our week 2nd year in clinical situations, the entire 1st year medical skills curriculum gets us ready for that. In addition to the front loading 1st year, we get a hybrid of basic and clinical sciences at the same time. We are taught in systems, but learn the basic and clinical sciences in the context of clinical presentations. We're in the middle of Neuro-block right now, and this week my lectures have been centered around seizure and have been as follows:
1) Biochem and genetics of mitochondrial disease/Genetics of multifactorial disorders & Epilepsy
2) Neuropathology of CNS Neoplasms
3) Small Group case review sessions
4) Neuroanatomy (cranial nerves etc)
5) Microbio. of CNS infections (third in a series of 3)
6) Pharmacology of CNS infection
7) Neuroanatomy: brainstem nuclei & reticular formation
8) Physiological basis of EEG
9) Epilepsy disorders & Eval.
10) Status Epilepticus and Epilepsy management
11) Epilepsy case studies
12) Medical Skills (cranial nerve examination)
13) OMM: Cranial manipulation and EMG
14) Pharmacology of anti epileptic medications
15) Neuroanatomy: topic as of yet unknown
16) Small group case studies (apply all knowledge gained since last small group session).
You can see that there's a tight integration of basic and clinical sciences there. I like it because it teaches me to think like a physician from the get go. This is exactly how I'll use my knowledge in clinical practice!
So I think that SOMA, as long as you are OK with the possibility of not being able to hand pick your clinical rotation sites, provides a package that's hard to beat.
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While it's true that we learn anatomy from prosecuted cadavers, those cadavers don't dissect themselves. Just this afternoon the dissection club cracked the chests of 4 cadavers, reflected skin and pectoral muscles, removed the breast plate and removed the heart to begin the dissections to be used in our upcoming cardio-pulmonary block.
If you're really excited about dissection, there's plenty of opportunity to do it at SOMA.
SLC
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Western lebanon
town is 6,000 people very rural...and very limited housing...closest good rental market is over 20 minutes commute time...school says they will provide dorms in future..how long that happens is anyone's guess.
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I did my Master's at MWU-Glendale and am currently a student at COMP-NW.
AZCOM (I mean the medicine program, specifically) seems well organized. They have a more traditional curriculum so you take multiple subjects at the same time. That means the pace is fast but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. The faculty are really great and their open door policy really means open door. For the most part you are as much of "number" as you want to be. You can blend in and lay low or you can be on a first name basis with all the faculty. The campus is great and having the on-campus housing is a great option. And it's AZ; let's be serious. Totally awesome place. I didn't like how competitive the program felt and I didn't love the way the classes were scheduled/organized.
As far as Western, I think you nailed its biggest problem: streaming lectures. It really is a crock and I know I'm not the only one that feels that way. I don't learn well from lectures but I do really miss office hours. Not being able to have access to the faculty that is writing the exam is a big negative (IMHO). The only other thing that I have a beef with is Western's love of administration/bureaucracy. There is a rule or policy for everything. Example: if you have a Dr's appt, you need to present the school with a note from your Dr BEFORE your appt to get an excused absence, as well as a note from the appt itself.
That being said, our admin/faculty are fantastic and supportive. Our anatomy lab is 100% legit (daily interactive tutorials, physicians from a pertinent specialty circulating almost daily during dissections to give clinical vignettes, etc). We have patient encounters in our simulation clinic week 1.
Also, another strength of Western's is its curriculum. We are a pass/fail, semester based program. Our first year is a modified block schedule with one "real" class at a time. For instance, we started the year with gross anatomy. The other classes were mainly fluff so we could concentrate on anatomy without any guilt. Now we have our biochem/molecular/physiology series starting. It's a little more integrated but it's still our only real academic distraction. Second year we are systems so all of the disciplines are covered as they pertain to that organ system. It definitely is the way I like to learn. As an aside, our anatomy professor here in OR is also a practicing physician. That means he is especially suited to presenting everything in a clinical context. If there was a single reason to attend Western, it would be him.
About rotations: at Western, there is a chance you may leave the area but that isn't required. There is a lottery system in place so that people are reasonably assured that they will be able to rotate where they would like. The nice thing is that Western has really great relationships with the hospitals in the area. We don't have to compete with other medical schools in the area for space. This is not the case in AZ. I personally know of students who had their rotation spots cancelled, rescheduled, and rearranged. This often happened at the last minute. While there are a lot of hospitals and people in the PHX valley, there are also four medical schools all trying to get their students a spot. Watching my friends try and find a place was part of the reason why I didn't want to go there.
Finally, a word about Lebanon: small. It's an asset because there are no distractions and the community is really supportive. It's a liability because there are no distractions and the community keeps a close eye on us. All of the upper administration knows many people in the community so we always feel as though there are eyes watching. Living here and going to Western is mainly great with an occasional meh now and then.
AZCOM (I mean the medicine program, specifically) seems well organized. They have a more traditional curriculum so you take multiple subjects at the same time. That means the pace is fast but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. The faculty are really great and their open door policy really means open door. For the most part you are as much of "number" as you want to be. You can blend in and lay low or you can be on a first name basis with all the faculty. The campus is great and having the on-campus housing is a great option. And it's AZ; let's be serious. Totally awesome place. I didn't like how competitive the program felt and I didn't love the way the classes were scheduled/organized.
As far as Western, I think you nailed its biggest problem: streaming lectures. It really is a crock and I know I'm not the only one that feels that way. I don't learn well from lectures but I do really miss office hours. Not being able to have access to the faculty that is writing the exam is a big negative (IMHO). The only other thing that I have a beef with is Western's love of administration/bureaucracy. There is a rule or policy for everything. Example: if you have a Dr's appt, you need to present the school with a note from your Dr BEFORE your appt to get an excused absence, as well as a note from the appt itself.
That being said, our admin/faculty are fantastic and supportive. Our anatomy lab is 100% legit (daily interactive tutorials, physicians from a pertinent specialty circulating almost daily during dissections to give clinical vignettes, etc). We have patient encounters in our simulation clinic week 1.
Also, another strength of Western's is its curriculum. We are a pass/fail, semester based program. Our first year is a modified block schedule with one "real" class at a time. For instance, we started the year with gross anatomy. The other classes were mainly fluff so we could concentrate on anatomy without any guilt. Now we have our biochem/molecular/physiology series starting. It's a little more integrated but it's still our only real academic distraction. Second year we are systems so all of the disciplines are covered as they pertain to that organ system. It definitely is the way I like to learn. As an aside, our anatomy professor here in OR is also a practicing physician. That means he is especially suited to presenting everything in a clinical context. If there was a single reason to attend Western, it would be him.
About rotations: at Western, there is a chance you may leave the area but that isn't required. There is a lottery system in place so that people are reasonably assured that they will be able to rotate where they would like. The nice thing is that Western has really great relationships with the hospitals in the area. We don't have to compete with other medical schools in the area for space. This is not the case in AZ. I personally know of students who had their rotation spots cancelled, rescheduled, and rearranged. This often happened at the last minute. While there are a lot of hospitals and people in the PHX valley, there are also four medical schools all trying to get their students a spot. Watching my friends try and find a place was part of the reason why I didn't want to go there.
Finally, a word about Lebanon: small. It's an asset because there are no distractions and the community is really supportive. It's a liability because there are no distractions and the community keeps a close eye on us. All of the upper administration knows many people in the community so we always feel as though there are eyes watching. Living here and going to Western is mainly great with an occasional meh now and then.
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Congrats on your decision. I'm guessing by your screen name you're into hockey. If you moved up here, you'd be real sad 
Way more rinks in the PHX valley.
Good luck next year.
Way more rinks in the PHX valley. Good luck next year.
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