2019 USNWR Rankings

[scienceguy95]

Wasn’t expecting this at all. RIP Columbia, Yale, and Michigan.

https://www.usnews.com/education/be...aduate-schools-preview-top-10-medical-schools

EDIT: Full-rankings are out! Let the SDN mania commence!

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[PhilzCoffeeAddict]

Usnwr doesn't really mean much though correct? Can someone speak to whether this is something we should consider in selecting schools?

 

[prerevenue]

Schools that "fell" out of the top 10 - Columbia (6), Yale (9), Michigan (9)
Schools that "rose" into the top 10 - UCLA (11), NYU (12), Mayo (20)

Here's a theory: what do some of these rising stars have in common? Accepting relatively few people initially and then taking people off their "waitlist" who have demonstrated interest in their school (i.e., via a letter of intent). This helps them maximize their yield (aka the number of offers they extend that choose to matriculate). Since yield factors into the selectivity index of a school, this might inflate their rankings.

Thoughts?

 

[Gilakend]

Dang. Now I couldn't be caught dead at Yale, Columbia, or Michigan. Crossing off list.

 

[efle]

Also, anyone have any insight to what caused Duke to jump to #1?

It's alphabetical. The actual order will be different.

 

[liquidcrawler]

It's alphabetical. The actual order will be different.

lol jokes on adcoms then, for letting me into school while I have the reading comprehension of a 4th grader.

 

[scienceguy95]

Schools that "fell" out of the top 10 - Columbia (6), Yale (9), Michigan (9)
Schools that "rose" into the top 10 - UCLA (11), NYU (12), Mayo (20)

Here's a theory: what do some of these rising stars have in common? Accepting relatively few people initially and then taking people off their "waitlist" who have demonstrated interest in their school (i.e., via a letter of intent). This helps them maximize their yield (aka the number of offers they extend that choose to matriculate). Since yield factors into the selectivity index of a school, this might inflate their rankings.

Thoughts?

I don't buy this. I think Mayo specifically has probably been under-ranked for a while given how strong their general reputation is within medicine, but I'm still surprised they made such an astronomical rise. As someone else mentioned, I'm sure USNWR changed their ranking methodology in some fashion that disfavored Columbia, Yale, and Michigan. I would be VERY surprised if the residency director scores also changed to align with these rankings, because Michigan, Yale, and Columbia have historically had higher scores than Mayo. It's all speculation until next week though.

I do wonder how much this will affect waitlist movement and school yield for this cycle as students need to make decisions. I'm guessing Mayo's yield is going to shoot way up.

 

[MedicalDoge]

Dang now I really want to get off Mayo's waitlist lol. But as mentioned above, this will probably improve yield by a lot

 

[TheVFibKid]

I don't buy this. I think Mayo specifically has probably been under-ranked for a while given how strong their general reputation is within medicine, but I'm still surprised they made such an astronomical rise. As someone else mentioned, I'm sure USNWR changed their ranking methodology in some fashion that disfavored Columbia, Yale, and Michigan. I would be VERY surprised if the residency director scores also changed to align with these rankings, because Michigan, Yale, and Columbia have historically had higher scores than Mayo. It's all speculation until next week though.

I do wonder how much this will affect waitlist movement and school yield for this cycle as students need to make decisions. I'm guessing Mayo's yield is going to shoot way up.

Once you get past the consensus top 5 schools (Harvard, Hopkins, Stanford, possibly UCSF and UPENN) the schools that are ranked in the top 20 or so are basically interchangeable in terms of prestige. For instance, I really do not think that UCLA or Duke would confer any meaningful advantage over the University of Chicago or Cornell in terms of name recognition being the decisive factor as to whether or not a graduate of one of those schools gets a given opportunity. Given the quite erratic shift we just saw from last year's rankings to this year's, I would laugh at someone who chose a newcomer to the top 10 over one of the schools that fell out for that reason alone, only to see the list get shuffled around again in a year or so.

 

[Lucca]

The USNWR Med School ranking release is like Lunar New Year for SDN.

 

[altblue]

It would be *****ic for anyone to make school decisions based on this, but alas I'm sure that will happen

I'm not applying to Columbia anymore, they'll have to find someone else.

 

[Microbug]

I disagree. As much as I like bashing NYU, theres no way yield alone accounted for their new ranking. If you look at the methology, yield isnt even accounted for and acceptance rate is barely factored in.

I’m just imagining NYU dangling that Top10 title over Columbia all year

 

[Lucca]

Next year: NYU #1

SDN: NYU is a mid tier school

Only one thing worse than old money and that’s new money.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

I don't buy this. I think Mayo specifically has probably been under-ranked for a while given how strong their general reputation is within medicine, but I'm still surprised they made such an astronomical rise. As someone else mentioned, I'm sure USNWR changed their ranking methodology in some fashion that disfavored Columbia, Yale, and Michigan. I would be VERY surprised if the residency director scores also changed to align with these rankings, because Michigan, Yale, and Columbia have historically had higher scores than Mayo. It's all speculation until next week though.

I do wonder how much this will affect waitlist movement and school yield for this cycle as students need to make decisions. I'm guessing Mayo's yield is going to shoot way up.

What’s Mayo’s endowment? Perhaps the old method more heavily weighed that? I would suspect that maybe Mayo’s endowment isn’t as high as those top univs with undergrads.

 

[enchantediris]

Once you get past the consensus top 5 schools (Harvard, Hopkins, Stanford, possibly UCSF and UPENN) the schools that are ranked in the top 20 or so are basically interchangeable in terms of prestige. For instance, I really do not think that UCLA or Duke would confer any meaningful advantage over the University of Chicago or Cornell in terms of name recognition being the decisive factor as to whether or not a graduate of one of those schools gets a given opportunity. Given the quite erratic shift we just saw from last year's rankings to this year's, I would laugh at someone who chose a newcomer to the top 10 over one of the schools that fell out for that reason alone, only to see the list get shuffled around again in a year or so.

Even Stanford had a large rise when they lobbied US News to consider amount of grant money per faculty as one of their metrics No one is safe! While I agree that no one should make their final decision based on this year's US News ranking, it doesn't mean that no one will.

 

[MedicalDoge]

Given that the rankings are in alphabetical order, anyone want to give guesses as to the actual order when it comes out?

I love stirring the pot

 

[scienceguy95]

Sure why not.

1. Harvard
2. Stanford
3. Hopkins
4. UCSF
5. Penn
6. Wash U
7. Duke
8. NYU
9. UCLA
10. Mayo

But who knows lol.

 

[878956]

Sure why not.

1. Harvard
2. Stanford
3. Hopkins
4. UCSF
5. Penn
6. Wash U
7. Duke
8. NYU
9. UCLA
10. Mayo

But who knows lol.

+1. Essentially the top 5 are set in stone.

 

[mcdocky]

1. Harvard
2. Stanford
3. Hopkins
4. UCSF
5. Penn
6. Duke
7. Wash U
8. NYU
9. Mayo
10. UCLA

 

[lpp06]

1. Dylan
2. Dylan
3. Dylan
4. Dylan
5. Dylan
6. Harvard

 

[medguy24]

1. Harvard
2. Stanford
3. Hopkins
4. UCSF
5. Penn
6. Duke
7. Wash U
8. UCLA
9. NYU
10. Mayo


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[LizzyM]

Could we put 64 schools on the list and call it our own March Madness? No doubt, Harvard, Stanford, Hopkins and Duke are the top seeds in the 4 brackets. I'd have said UCSF but we can't have 2 from the same geographic area... Southern med schools get their own division. And what's a bracket without someone getting scr3wed?

 

[CyrusHabs7695]

Wow it must be so embarrassing to go to Yale now. If you go to Yale you are probably limited to primary care, cant specialize and are pretty much equal to a naturopathic doc.







Why do people care about these rankings

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

The USNWR Med School ranking release is like Lunar New Year for SDN.

I have a count down every year. Not for the actual rankings release but for the SDN reaction to them

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Wow it must be so embarrassing to go to Yale now. If you go to Yale you are probably limited to primary care, cant specialize and are pretty much equal to a naturopathic doc.







Why do people care about these rankings

I hear schools that drop out of the top 10 have to start conferring the DO degree

 

[CyrusHabs7695]

I hear schools that drop out of the top 10 have to start conferring the DO degree

Can DOs become surgeons, I know theyre close to the level of Pharmacists and PAs????

 

[MarineMDHopeful]

1. Harvard
2. Stanford
3. Hopkins
4. UCSF
5. Penn
6. Duke
7. Wash U
8. Mayo
9. UCLA
10. NYU

 

[CyrusHabs7695]

1. Harvard
2. Stanford
3. UCSF
4. Hopkins
5. Penn
6. Duke
7. Wash U
8. Mayo
9. UCLA
10. NYU













9998. Ross
9999. St Georges
10000. Yale

 

[altblue]

Wonder if UCLA kept the 508. I overheard that Mayo's median is a 520 this year too.

1. Harvard
2. Stanford
3. Hopkins
4. UCSF
5. Penn
6. Duke
7. Wash U
8. NYU
9. UCLA
10. Mayo

 

[scienceguy95]

1. Harvard
2. Stanford
3. Hopkins
4. UCSF
5. Penn
6. Duke
7. Wash U
8. Mayo
9. UCLA
10. NYU

Lol I like your Mayo optimism @MarineMDHopeful

 

[MarineMDHopeful]

Lol I like your Mayo optimism @MarineMDHopeful

Haha, I really think that's what it will be, Mayo increased median stats, added a facility which means tons of NIH, and theu jad more applicants this year imcreasing selectivity. Idk about UCLA and NYU but that's a LOT going for Mayo.

Disclaimer: IDGAF about rankings, I would go to Mayo no matter what.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

1. Harvard
2. Stanford
3. UCSF
4. Hopkins
5. Penn
6. Duke
7. Wash U
8. Mayo
9. UCLA
10. NYU













9998. Ross
9999. St Georges
10000. Yale

It appears the adage “the higher you go, the harder you fall” rings true for poor Yale. I feel for those students, they probably will have to transfer now to avoid the lifetime embarrassment of graduating from a school that fell out of the top 10 in the 2019 USWNR rankings.

 

[CyrusHabs7695]

It appears the adage “the higher you go, the harder you fall” rings true for poor Yale. I feel for those students, they probably will have to transfer now to avoid the lifetime embarrassment of graduating from a school that fell out of the top 10 in the 2019 USWNR rankings.

Goodluck finding a residency that will take a Yale grad, rural South Dakota Internal Medicine here they come

 

[Dartmouth1230]

Next year: NYU #1

SDN: NYU is a mid tier school

Only one thing worse than old money and that’s new money.

NYU has one of the top Step 1 score averages in country, all of my classmates got the residencies of their choice, our median stats rival any school in the country, we get to train at a historic public hospital and one of the best private hospitals in the country and we're located in the heart of Manhattan. You can bash NYU all you want, but I'm doing pretty well for myself. If I could go back in time knowing what I know now, I would choose NYU again in a heartbeat.

 

[Lucca]

NYU has one of the top Step 1 score averages in country, all of my classmates got the residencies of their choice, our median stats rival any school in the country, we get to train at a historic public hospital and one of the best private hospitals in the country and we're located in the heart of Manhattan. You can bash NYU all you want, but I'm doing pretty well for myself. If I could go back in time knowing what I know now, I would choose NYU again in a heartbeat.

Yah I mean it’s a great school no doubt. My post was tongue in cheek

 

[Microbug]

NYU has one of the top Step 1 score averages in country, all of my classmates got the residencies of their choice, our median stats rival any school in the country, we get to train at a historic public hospital and one of the best private hospitals in the country and we're located in the heart of Manhattan. You can bash NYU all you want, but I'm doing pretty well for myself. If I could go back in time knowing what I know now, I would choose NYU again in a heartbeat.

Why say heart of manhattan like it’s something to be proud of?

 

[Microbug]

Yah I mean it’s a great school no doubt. My post was tongue in cheek

I thought you post was funny, the last line is hilarious.

It’s a great school, we’re just joking around. No need to get so defensive.

 

[Lucca]

1. NYU
Tied for 2: everyone else

 

[seren1051]

Wasn't NYU like 30 couple years ago? give it two more years and it'll be #0

 

[Saifa]

1. NYU
Tied for 2: everyone else

This is patently false and frankly stupid. I don't know how Yale is going to tie anyone at this point.

 

[Goro]

Wasn’t expecting this at all. RIP Columbia, Yale, and Michigan.

https://www.usnews.com/education/be...aduate-schools-preview-top-10-medical-schools

The only people who care about these ranking are pre-meds and med school deans.

And no, PDs don't care either. They already know which schools turn out good graduates. If you don't believe me, look at all the "low tier" graduates in this program, for starters:

Neurosurgery Current Residents – Brigham and Women’s Hospital

 

[Mcatbot]

There are med school deans that really care about rankings, and then there are those who don't. NYU is a great school, probably under-ranked in 2011 @ 30, but you don't go from 30 --> 10 in 7 years without somewhat gaming the system (e.g. they reduced class size from ~160/170 --> 120). You also don't go from 6 --> >10 in one year like Columbia. They just got 1 billion in endowment for med school/medical center and that's not counted. That being said, there will be applicants picking NYU over Columbia because of ranking

 

[TheVFibKid]

That being said, there will be applicants picking NYU over Columbia because of ranking

It's going to be really funny in 2019 or 2020 when Columbia and Yale make it back in and NYU or Mayo is tied for 11th because of some minor tweak in the US News ranking methodology. I think it's great that the rankings come out late March or early April when second years are starting to ramp up Step 1 studying. Imagine how much anxiety that is going to cause for someone who chose a newly-coronated top 10 over a school that just missed it, only to find that their reason for being at their current institution has just vanished.

 

[SuaveCardigans]

There are med school deans that really care about rankings, and then there are those who don't. NYU is a great school, probably under-ranked in 2011 @ 30, but you don't go from 30 --> 10 in 7 years without somewhat gaming the system (e.g. they reduced class size from ~160/170 --> 120). You also don't go from 6 --> >10 in one year like Columbia. They just got 1 billion in endowment for med school/medical center and that's not counted. That being said, there will be applicants picking NYU over Columbia because of ranking

tbh i hope so, i want off of columbias waitlist

 

[Spectar]

NYU has one of the top Step 1 score averages in country, all of my classmates got the residencies of their choice, our median stats rival any school in the country, we get to train at a historic public hospital and one of the best private hospitals in the country and we're located in the heart of Manhattan. You can bash NYU all you want, but I'm doing pretty well for myself. If I could go back in time knowing what I know now, I would choose NYU again in a heartbeat.

Its hilarious you can't take a joke.

 

[altblue]

Its hilarious you can't take a joke.

The smartest guy in the room never can

 

[Microbug]

The smartest guy in the room never can

That’s not true. You can be both smart and hilarious.

 

[Gilakend]

NYU has one of the top Step 1 score averages in country, all of my classmates got the residencies of their choice, our median stats rival any school in the country, we get to train at a historic public hospital and one of the best private hospitals in the country and we're located in the heart of Manhattan. You can bash NYU all you want, but I'm doing pretty well for myself. If I could go back in time knowing what I know now, I would choose NYU again in a heartbeat.

To quote my friend @altblue from the The Seven People You'll Meet on SDN (updated) thread

The Keyboard Warrior: Wants to show he or she is very very smart. likely an applicant, M1 or M2. More than willing to write a 10 paragraph argument on why undergrad or med school name matters or not, on the importance of an EC, or even develop some statistics to post. Dispenses straightforward, logical advice from time to time

 

[altblue]

That’s not true. You can be both smart and hilarious.

 

[Microbug]

Sarcasm doesn’t carry well through words lol