2020-2021 Waitlist Support Thread

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adrummingdog said:
Not sure who else here is waiting on DO schools but May 15th was Saturday (AACOMAS PTE/CTE) so we should be seeing some more now
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Me on 5 DO WL rn reading how all the MD WL is only expecting small waves from here on out
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wegotthis20201234 said:
ah the school im waitlisted for just sent an email saying that the class is currently full 🙁
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Pretty sure I'm waitlisted at the same school (had an early interview too so I thought I was some kind of hotshot applicant lol) and even though I expected this outcome, I am filled with sadness
 
chzsux said:
Pretty sure I'm waitlisted at the same school (had an early interview too so I thought I was some kind of hotshot applicant lol) and even though I expected this outcome, I am filled with sadness
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i feel you friend, i feel you. i was so surprised by how short the waitlist movement lasted given that CTE is in June - I'm here if you wanna talk!
 
I’m beginning to think one of my LOR writers didn’t do a good enough job. I met the criteria to be selected... but I wasn’t.
 
NecroticallyNeurotic said:
I'm also among those that feel like my IIs were a result of them being virtual and schools simply offering more interviews. Cynical or not, I feel like I wouldn't have been offered as many IIs in a 'normal' cycle and I have consequently been placed on the WL for a school's convenience while being given an unrealistic sliver of hope.
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This is possible, but, so what? It's not like they offered twice as many interviews! If a school offered 10-20% more IIs, that's really a drop in the bucket, and was in response to the surge in applications as much as due to interviews being virtual. No matter how you slice it, it was way more difficult to receive an II this cycle as compared to the last several cycles.

The achievement of receiving IIs cannot be overstated. No, it's not an A, but trust me, if you have to reapply, you are in much better shape if you previously received IIs than the alternative.
 
tahinitajin said:
Today was another really hard day 🙁 And to pour salt on the wound my family is saying I won’t cut it as a doctor bcus I should be holding myself together better
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I'm sorry to hear that. I think that one of the most important things to remember during this time is to not pay too much attention to the words of people who have no idea what this process is like.
 
FriedLemon said:
I'm sorry to hear that. I think that one of the most important things to remember during this time is to not pay too much attention to the words of people who have no idea what this process is like.
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This year has made it so hard for applicants to ignore negative and ill-informed influences bc so many find themselves cooped up in places that don't really allow for the support/ understanding necessary to get through such a competitive cycle. This process is brutal and you're not alone. Keep trying to remember the facts (that you're clearly capable as u have come this far/etc).
 
tahinitajin said:
Today was another really hard day 🙁 And to pour salt on the wound my family is saying I won’t cut it as a doctor bcus I should be holding myself together better
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I've faced this too, particularly from relatives. Just know they have no idea what this is like. Even physicians who were premeds 20 years ago barely know what this is like. The app cycle just gets insanely more competitive year after year, and being uncertain about the future like this is truly mind-numbing. You are not at all alone. It's okay to be not okay.

Regardless, you will be a doctor. I just know it.
 
tahinitajin said:
Today was another really hard day 🙁 And to pour salt on the wound my family is saying I won’t cut it as a doctor bcus I should be holding myself together better
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I think what bothers most is this idea of "holding it together"
In a lot of ways the emotions we feel, especially the negative ones, are what make us wiser, more compassionate beings
Feeling upset by this process just reflects that it meant a lot to you, not that there is some definitive "emotional endurance/push it all under a rug" aptitude you need for medicine
Can you imagine if a physician couldn't empathize with a grieving patient and was just like "hmm yea if you're gonna be this upset about cancer now you're def not going to make it" lol
I'm sorry to all of us that it's been rough
It's a terrible process. You're allowed to think that, to grieve being on WLs, to go through the rollercoasters. I'm glad there are others who understand.
 
Someone emailed my top-choice school about WL movement last week. The school said that WL applicants are still in consideration, movement can happen anytime between now and the first week of classes, and that they have no further info at this time. Does this mean WL movement can happen or is the school being vague? this school has historically had a lot of movement early to mid-May but so far they haven't sent out a lot of As rip
 
sadppremed said:
Someone emailed my top-choice school about WL movement last week. The school said that WL applicants are still in consideration, movement can happen anytime between now and the first week of classes, and that they have no further info at this time. Does this mean WL movement can happen or is the school being vague? this school has historically had a lot of movement early to mid-May but so far they haven't sent out a lot of As rip
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This means nothing, so don't read into it. It's true as far as it goes. Of course, if you haven't been rejected you are still being considered. Movement can happen at any time, because, before their CTE deadline, anyone can withdraw at any time if they are called off another WL. The school has no visibility into or control over whether or when this might happen.

Not giving you any additional information is, unfortunately, typical of the majority of schools that choose to not be transparent. Nothing to do but hope for the best and prepare for the worst.
 
If an applicant CTEs, can they still stay on waitlists? I'm unclear how seats open post CTE - do schools have similar CTE dates?
 
wegotthis20201234 said:
If an applicant CTEs, can they still stay on waitlists? I'm unclear how seats open post CTE - do schools have similar CTE dates?
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CTE dates vary by school but once you have committed (CTE), you are agreeing that you will drop yourself from Wait Lists (see AMCAS CTE verbiage)

AMCAS Application Text: Commit to Enroll​

Commit to Enroll – beginning April 30​

Commit to Enroll: I am confirming my commitment to matriculate to the medical school selected above.
By selecting "Commit to Enroll," I am indicating that I have made my final selection and withdrawn all other applications, including waitlist positions. AMCAS® Choose Your Medical School Tool
 
wegotthis20201234 said:
If an applicant CTEs, can they still stay on waitlists? I'm unclear how seats open post CTE - do schools have similar CTE dates?
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NO!!!!!!!

CTE dates are all over the place. Seats open post-CTE if a PTE unexpectedly does not turn into a CTE, if, for example, someone was hiding an A at a school that did not require PTE, and then withdrew from the PTE school rather than selecting CTE. It's not common, and does not generate nearly the activity that 4/30 does, but, it's not unheard of.

What CTE deadlines do generate is a ton of withdrawals from WLs. That's a form of WL movement, but it does not result in As. It just helps you move up the list.
 
KnightDoc said:
NO!!!!!!!

CTE dates are all over the place. Seats open post-CTE if a PTE unexpectedly does not turn into a CTE, if, for example, someone was hiding an A at a school that did not require PTE, and then withdrew from the PTE school rather than selecting CTE. It's not common, and does not generate nearly the activity that 4/30 does, but, it's not unheard of.

What CTE deadlines do generate is a ton of withdrawals from WLs. That's a form of WL movement, but it does not result in As. It just helps you move up the list.
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wysdoc said:
CTE dates vary by school but once you have committed (CTE), you are agreeing that you will drop yourself from Wait Lists (see AMCAS CTE verbiage)

AMCAS Application Text: Commit to Enroll​

Commit to Enroll – beginning April 30​

Commit to Enroll: I am confirming my commitment to matriculate to the medical school selected above.
By selecting "Commit to Enroll," I am indicating that I have made my final selection and withdrawn all other applications, including waitlist positions. AMCAS® Choose Your Medical School Tool
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Thank you for clarifying!! I've heard of people getting off the waitlist in late June, July, and even August at the school I'm waitlisted for but I'm not sure how this happens when everyone is committed by that point?
 
wegotthis20201234 said:
Thank you for clarifying!! I've heard of people getting off the waitlist in late June, July, and even August at the school I'm waitlisted for but I'm not sure how this happens when everyone is committed by that point?
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The people who get these late offers have no other acceptances, and "life happens" to people who were already committed (medical emergencies, etc.) creating a few late openings.
 
wegotthis20201234 said:
Thank you for clarifying!! I've heard of people getting off the waitlist in late June, July, and even August at the school I'm waitlisted for but I'm not sure how this happens when everyone is committed by that point?
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Yup! This is how! 🙂 When is your school's CTE date?

Remember, movement occurs as people are called off other WLs, UNTIL the CTE date. That's the date everyone is locked in, but it's typically only a few weeks before orientation, so things can happen at any point until then. And, as I said, if they unexpectedly lose a few people at the CTE deadline, that generates the final few calls. At that point, most people will be committed elsewhere, so there won't be that many people left on the WL as compared to 5/1! 🙂
 
KnightDoc said:
Yup! This is how! 🙂 When is your school's CTE date?

Remember, movement occurs as people are called off other WLs, UNTIL the CTE date. That's the date everyone is locked in, but it's typically only a few weeks before orientation, so things can happen until then. And, as I said, if they unexpectedly lose a few people at the CTE deadline, that generates the final few calls. At that point, most people will be committed elsewhere, so there won't be that many people left on the WL as compared to 5/1! 🙂
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CTE is June 15th! But the class is already full and it's been my top choice from the beginning/happens to be the only school that interviewed me
 
wegotthis20201234 said:
CTE is June 15th! But the class is already full and it's been my top choice from the beginning/happens to be the only school that interviewed me
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If the CTE date is 6/15 I can't imagine there will be movement in August unless, as @wysdoc suggested, someone gets cold feet or has some sort of emergency, since it is EXTREMELY unlikely any school would call someone who is CTE elsewhere off a WL.

The bad news for you is that this will prevent people currently PTE there from accepting last minute WL offers elsewhere. The good news is that you will have virtual certainty where you stand by the end of June, regardless of what you've heard about August movement. Do you happen to know whether they had a later CTE date the last two years?

WL movement several weeks after a CTE date is quite rare. On the other hand, having a CTE date that much before classes begin is also not common, so, who knows?
 
Being waitlisted and preparing for reapplication is a grueling experience in any given year, but probably more so this year on the back of the pandemic and being socially isolated from everyone.

Recently, I re-watched one of my favorite talks, which was given by Dr. Randy Pausch, a professor of computer science at Carnegie Mellon who was diagnosed with metastatic pancreatic cancer back in 2006. Titled "Achieving Your Childhood Dreams", his talk was given as part of the university's "The Last Lecture" series, and remains an inspiration that I go back to time and time again when things in my life do not go according to plan.

"The brick walls are not there to keep us out. The brick walls are there to give us a chance to show how badly we want something".

Disappointments and road blocks are inevitable in life. Whether you need to take your mind off of waitlist movement or to take a breather from prepping your possible re-application, I recommend taking an hour to watch this talk. It has provided timeless guidance and perspective throughout my life, and hopefully it will do the same for you.

 
KnightDoc said:
If the CTE date is 6/15 I can't imagine there will be movement in August unless, as @wysdoc suggested, someone gets cold feet or has some sort of emergency, since it is EXTREMELY unlikely any school would call someone who is CTE elsewhere off a WL.

The bad news for you is that this will prevent people currently PTE there from accepting last minute WL offers elsewhere. The good news is that you will have virtual certainty where you stand by the end of June, regardless of what you've heard about August movement. Do you happen to know whether they had a later CTE date the last two years?

WL movement several weeks after a CTE date is quite rare. On the other hand, having a CTE date that much before classes begin is also not common, so, who knows?
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I think it's the same CTE as last yr :/ Not sure if that's late in the cycle or early compared to other schools CTE dates
 
@KnightDoc what is your explanation for state schools such at stonybrook, umass, and buffalo that historically have great movement but have been mostly silent this year... better than avg yield or are they just delayed...?
 
wegotthis20201234 said:
I think it's the same CTE as last yr :/ Not sure if that's late in the cycle or early compared to other schools CTE dates
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It's on the early side. AAMC recommends 3 weeks before matriculation. It sounds like yours is around 2 months, no?

It's not so much that 6/15 is crazy early. It's just that a 6/15 CTE date usually corresponds to orientation starting in mid July, not August.

It sounds like your school is leaving a lot of time between CTE and school starting, but exactly what is supposed to provoke WL movement if the people committed are not free to remain on other WLs after 6/15?
 
Microbe_Hunter said:
@KnightDoc what is your explanation for state schools such at stonybrook, umass, and buffalo that historically have great movement but have been mostly silent this year... better than avg yield or are they just delayed...?
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Personally, my belief is that T20 WLs will take longer for the Cascade to settle this year, and thus extend the time for all WL movement. The big fish (top candidates) nibbled on more hooks in the T20 pond this year, so all the T20 Fishermen were going after the same big fish without enough to go around.

Only CTE fully stops WL movement in it's tracks. So until then I expect continued cascade movement later in this cycle.
 
Microbe_Hunter said:
@KnightDoc what is your explanation for state schools such at stonybrook, umass, and buffalo that historically have great movement but have been mostly silent this year... better than avg yield or are they just delayed...?
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🙂 You flatter me by implying I have special insight. I don't.

There is no good reason for them to be delayed, but, of course, I am not on the inside. So, my guess would be that their yields were higher than usual this year. Maybe because fewer initial As everywhere caused their accepted candidates to have fewer choices?

There could still be movement as people get off WLs at other schools, but, it's historically difficult to pull IS people away from these schools due to their cost advantage. OOS is, of course, a totally different story.
 
I just had a long and hard conversation and I realized I'm being ridiculous worrying and panicking like this. I'm taking the L's and I'm moving forward and assuming I got all R's. There's no point in continuing to neurotically refresh my email and SDN and just waste all day and make myself miserable. Nothing positive is gonna come from waiting and holding on to hope when I should be rewriting my application.

Honestly what will happen if I don't get in? It's honestly not the end of the world even though it may feel like it is at times.

If I get off a waitlist then yes it will be a nice surprise but as of now I’m moving on with my life with the assumption I got rejected and need to reapply🙏🏼✌🏻
 
KnightDoc said:
🙂 You flatter me by implying I have special insight. I don't.

There is no good reason for them to be delayed, but, of course, I am not on the inside. So, my guess would be that their yields were higher than usual this year. Maybe because fewer initial As everywhere caused their accepted candidates to have fewer choices?

There could still be movement as people get off WLs at other schools, but, it's historically difficult to pull IS people away from these schools due to their cost advantage. OOS is, of course, a totally different story.
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I mean, for example, umass says they accept like 2/3 of their WL and this yr it seems there has virtually been 0 movement... i find it hard to believe the yield could have improved that much.. can any adcoms comment on whether yields seem to be higher or lower this year..?
 
proudofmykids said:
Personally, my belief is that T20 WLs will take longer for the Cascade to settle this year, and thus extend the time for all WL movement. The big fish (top candidates) nibbled on more hooks in the T20 pond this year, so all the T20 Fishermen were going after the same big fish without enough to go around.

Only CTE fully stops WL movement in it's tracks. So until then I expect continued cascade movement later in this cycle.
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I respectfully disagree. If a lot of T20 movement is going to come this year, why hasn't it started yet?

To me, it looks like their yields were higher across the board than usual, because their movement sure seems very subdued to date. Exactly who is going to be giving up a seat at Hopkins or Penn to answer the call at one of the mid tiers experiencing decent movement so far?

You are correct that T20 movement typically causes a cascade downward, but, why do you take for granted that it always has to happen? Movement seems to be happening this year without the T20. What is going to cause the reverse cascade to create movement at the T20? Or, do you just think their adcoms have been too busy contemplating whether to have virtual interviews next cycle to be bothered filling their vacant seats the past few weeks, but they are bound to do something before matriculation?
 
tahinitajin said:
I just had a long and hard conversation and I realized I'm being ridiculous worrying and panicking like this. I'm taking the L's and I'm moving forward and assuming I got all R's. There's no point in continuing to neurotically refresh my email and SDN and just waste all day and make myself miserable. Nothing positive is gonna come from waiting and holding on to hope when I should be rewriting my application.

Honestly what will happen if I don't get in? It's honestly not the end of the world even though it may feel like it is at times.

If I get off a waitlist then yes it will be a nice surprise but as of now I’m moving on with my life with the assumption I got rejected and need to reapply🙏🏼✌🏻
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I'd give it another few weeks before going there, but I understand where you are coming from.
 
Microbe_Hunter said:
I mean, for example, umass says they accept like 2/3 of their WL and this yr it seems there has virtually been 0 movement... i find it hard to believe the yield could have improved that much.. can any adcoms comment on whether yields seem to be higher or lower this year..?
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There is no rule. As you can see by checking out the school specific threads, many, but not all, have had very healthy movement. Some, but not all, were intentionally conservative with initial As due to uncertainty as to how virtual interviews would impact yield.

If you find it hard to believe that yield could have improved so much, the answer must be that all of the WL movement is going unreported, or their adcom wants to wait for the last minute and only accept people with no other As, after everyone with other As has been forced to withdraw from the WL. Or, maybe they threw caution to the wind and actually issued more As this year, allowing for and planning for less WL movement.

No way to know for sure aside from reaching out to them and asking. All you know for sure is that there is not a lot of reported WL movement there while people at a whole bunch of other schools are reporting movement on a daily basis.
 
KnightDoc said:
I respectfully disagree. If a lot of T20 movement is going to come this year, why hasn't it started yet?

To me, it looks like their yields were higher across the board than usual, because their movement sure seems very subdued to date. Exactly who is going to be giving up a seat at Hopkins or Penn to answer the call at one of the mid tiers experiencing decent movement so far?

You are correct that T20 movement typically causes a cascade downward, but, why do you take for granted that it always has to happen? Movement seems to be happening this year without the T20. What is going to cause the reverse cascade to create movement at the T20? Or, do you just think their adcoms have been too busy contemplating whether to have virtual interviews next cycle to be bothered filling their vacant seats the past few weeks, but they are bound to do something before matriculation?
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I've always felt that most WL information is reported, if at all on SDN well after the fact. What is everyone basing their WL movement activity on that they think is is so much less this year? Lack of SDN WL posts? I'd contend it isn't a great indicator, even using the 6:1 representation ratio.

I also disagree that t20 movement hasn't started, it is the reporting of it that hasn't started. In fact I know for sure that T20 schools are still trying to poach T5/10 students. People don't want to break their annonymity since WL->A offers are low quantity.

I fully agree second top priority is to fill their classes.
 
Just curious, which schools had healthy WL movement this cycle? Healthy as in about the same movement compared to previous cycles
 
Julatteluver said:
Just curious, which schools had healthy WL movement this cycle? Healthy as in about the same movement compared to previous cycles
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Go to the school specific threads and look at the ones with a lot of activity the last two weeks. There are many of them.
 
proudofmykids said:
I've always felt that most WL information is reported, if at all on SDN well after the fact. What is everyone basing their WL movement activity on that they think is is so much less this year? Lack of SDN WL posts? I'd contend it isn't a great indicator, even using the 6:1 representation ratio.

I also disagree that t20 movement hasn't started, it is the reporting of it that hasn't started. In fact I know for sure that T20 schools are still trying to poach T5/10 students. People don't want to break their annonymity since WL->A offers are low quantity.

I fully agree second top priority is to fill their classes.
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Okay, but is there a reason the reporting would be more delayed this year than in prior years? It's the third week of May. When did reports of T20 WL movement hit SDN the last two cycles? Why isn't reporting so delayed at all other schools? If WL->A is low quantity, exactly how is that different from low movement?????
 
Anyone here actually considering applying to -less- schools this cycle? Third time re-applicant here, first time getting interviews, and it feels like the only schools that were more willing to consider my improvements (positive MCAT trend, post-bacc GPA, getting more clinical experience) were IS ones. Whereas OOS schools for me, both in terms of getting IIs from them, or even just any sort of communication, was rough for me, I did not get anything.

It just feels like at this point unless you’re some superstar applicant, it doesn’t feel like there is much reason to apply to OOS schools. This feeling is emphasized even further for me given that a lot of my friends who were in similar stat/experience ranges as myself all went to IS schools.

As someone who (hopefully won’t have to) reapply a fourth time, I just really don’t want to spend more time and money on applications than I need to. I would like to actually enjoy a summer for once.
 
Blue Lion said:
Anyone here actually considering applying to -less- schools this cycle? Third time re-applicant here, first time getting interviews, and it feels like the only schools that were more willing to consider my improvements (positive MCAT trend, post-bacc GPA, getting more clinical experience) were IS ones. Whereas OOS schools for me, both in terms of getting IIs from them, or even just any sort of communication, was rough for me, I did not get anything.

It just feels like at this point unless you’re some superstar applicant, it doesn’t feel like there is much reason to apply to OOS schools. This feeling is emphasized even further for me given that a lot of my friends who were in similar stat/experience ranges as myself all went to IS schools.

As someone who (hopefully won’t have to) reapply a fourth time, I just really don’t want to spend more time and money on applications than I need to. I would like to actually enjoy a summer for once.
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This is totally up to you. In general, more well written, appropriately targeted applications lead to greater chances of success. We have no way to know exactly why you are not experiencing any OOS success, but it is incumbent on you to figure that out rather than being forced to limit your opportunities to whatever is available to you IS. IS is often the best opportunity for people, but artificially limiting yourself to that is less than ideal.

Your post basically states only superstars succeed OOS. I promise you that literally thousands of people every year who are no more superstar than any other successful applicant (in fact, I'm pretty sure around half of them are actually in the bottom half of accepted applicants), will disagree with your assertion.
 
KnightDoc said:
This means nothing, so don't read into it. It's true as far as it goes. Of course, if you haven't been rejected you are still being considered. Movement can happen at any time, because, before their CTE deadline, anyone can withdraw at any time if they are called off another WL. The school has no visibility into or control over whether or when this might happen.

Not giving you any additional information is, unfortunately, typical of the majority of schools that choose to not be transparent. Nothing to do but hope for the best and prepare for the worst.
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The school gave us an update during a session they held and said the class is full but WL movement could possibly happen after their CTE date (mid-June).
 
NecroticallyNeurotic said:
*prepping for reapp*

me: “man, there’s no way this process could get worse”

*gets email stating one of my schools is requiring the SJT next cycle*
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sameeee and also needing to do whatever is going on with the 2 other parts of the casper lol
 
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