523 MCAT, 3.2 sGPA, 3.5 cGPA - downward trend

[hubbsbubbs]

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[summergirl]

What's the GPA in your senior year?
Your GPA and MCAT combo is within striking distance of MD. But your school list is too focused on California, and you can't really afford to only apply there with your stats. You should have at least 20 schools outside of California, and add 10 DO schools in there to be safe.

 

[LuluLovesMe]

Psychology major at UCLA, ORM (but 1st gen). Northern California Resident
Huge dip in my junior year (4.0 sophomore to 2.0 junior) with F's, withdrawals, and pass/fail classes. Unfortunate circumstances (family health issues) led to a severe downward trend.
523 MCAT (2nd try, first time got 512)

Does a high MCAT make up for a low science GPA and downward trend?
I'm doing a post-bacc. But even if I ace all my classes, sGPA would be 3.4. Still well below average.

Snapshot:
200+ hours shadowing a psychiatrist
Bartender for 6 months (after graduation)
now working full-time as a research assistant at Stanford
a few first-author abstracts, hopefully a manuscript by years end.
200+ hours clinical volunteer work
Only ECs are peer counseling at an LGBT+ clinic and studying abroad
very good LORs
I'm 23 years old so may be non-traditional (not sure what the cutoff is)

Would really appreciate some guidance. How can I improve my application by June, and what schools would be best for me to try for? I've heard that applying broadly is good for people in my position, but low on funds. I think 10-12 schools might be my max. I don't know too much about med schools besides searching MSAR so excuse the lack of breadth. Preliminary list:

Reach
Stanford
UCLA
UCSF
Northwestern
BU
UCSD
Dartmouth
Georgetown

Reasonable (i know nothing)
UCI
UCR
UCD
USC
VCU
Hofstra?
NYMC
UVA
Ohio State

Safe
Is there such a thing for my situation?
EVMS?

DO to stay in CA (I have three F's bringing down my gpa, so grade replacement?)
Western
Touro

Skimming the threads it seems like you all have good advice. What should I add/remove?
@gyngyn @Goro @Faha @mehc012 @Lawper @GrapesofRath @LuluLovesMe @WedgeDawg @Oh_Gee @gonnif @precisiongraphic @summergirl

Do you really want to do DO with those stats just so you can stay in CA? I usually recommend applicants to go one way or the other but I'm 50-50 on this one. I could see you applying DO or waiting till your 2nd cycle if you fail at MD once. Think about what either choice means for you because once you have a DO acceptance but no MD acceptance you have no choice but to go.

Buy the MSAR and apply to every school with a 10% accepted GPA of 3.45 or under AND a 50% MCAT under 517. Take out schools that strongly favor in state, are mission based or are historically black medical schools. I think applying to any school with an MCAT average over 517 is going to be beyond a reach for you.

 

[Goro]

No. And why did you retake a perfectly good 512? That will get you rejected at @gyngyn's school.
Does a high MCAT make up for a low science GPA and downward trend?

 

[GinnyWeasley]

No. And why did you retake a perfectly good 512? That will get you rejected at @gyngyn's school.
Does a high MCAT make up for a low science GPA and downward trend?

Wouldn't OP have a chance at some schools that love high Mcats? The ones that his sgpa is within 10% of?

 

[starspells]

Wouldn't OP have a chance at some schools that love high Mcats? The ones that his sgpa is within 10% of?

Yes I think so. and retaking a 512 isn't like retaking a 518 or something but perhaps other schools will see it differently.

 

[starspells]

I agree with summergirl that you need to apply to more OOS schools. I think you would have a good shot at these schools:

Hofstra
Jefferson
MCW
Wash U
Cincinnati
Case Western
Iowa
BU
SLU
Miami
OSU
Emory
Rochester
Einstein

 

[precisiongraphic]

Wouldn't OP have a chance at some schools that love high Mcats? The ones that his sgpa is within 10% of?

I agree with Ginny and (somewhat) disagree with the very helpful @LuluLovesMe. I think peeps with High MCAT/lower gpa (under 3.6) do better applying at their LizzyM average as opposed to hoping schools will ignore the 99%+ MCAT. Dartmouth, UVA, Ohio State, Case Western, Rochester, USC are my recommendations of schools in this category.

Are you applying in the current cycle or next year? If you ace the post-bacc I think you'll be fine.

EDIT: Reread and see that you're applying next year

 

[LuluLovesMe]

I agree with Ginny and (somewhat) disagree with the very helpful @LuluLovesMe. I think peeps with High MCAT/lower gpa (under 3.6) do better applying at their LizzyM average as opposed to hoping schools will ignore the 99%+ MCAT. Dartmouth, UVA, Ohio State, Case Western, Rochester, USC are my recommendations of schools in this category.

Are you applying in the current cycle or next year? If you ace the post-bacc I think you'll be fine.

He would be applying at or OVER his LizzyM average if he followed my advice. Remember one of his MCATs is 512. Dartmouth, Rochester and USC would be worth a shot for OP to apply to, but I'm not sure about UVA, Ohio State and Case. He can give them a shot if he has the extra money for app fees.

 

[TheBiologist]

I agree with summergirl that you need to apply to more OOS schools. I think you would have a good shot at these schools:

Hofstra
Jefferson
MCW
Wash U
Cincinnati
Case Western
Iowa
BU
SLU
Miami
OSU
Emory
Rochester
Einstein

Washington with a 3.2? that might be a bit of a stretch... but a 523 is very high so I guess you never know

 

[GinnyWeasley]

He would be applying at or OVER his LizzyM average if he followed my advice. Remember one of his MCATs is 512. Dartmouth, Rochester and USC would be worth a shot for OP to apply to, but I'm not sure about UVA, Ohio State and Case. He can give them a shot if he has the extra money for app fees.

Even though all schools look at both MCATS, I know that some schools don't average, so would the 512 still be taken into the official LizzyM? Or just for schools that average?

 

[precisiongraphic]

He would be applying at or OVER his LizzyM average if he followed my advice. Remember one of his MCATs is 512. Dartmouth, Rochester and USC would be worth a shot for OP to apply to, but I'm not sure about UVA, Ohio State and Case. He can give them a shot if he has the extra money for app fees.

That's a good point. I didn't explain more of my reasoning but with a 523 (even given an additional score of 512) I think yield protection is going to be an issue at lower MCAT schools and he should key off the 523 not the 512.

 

[LuluLovesMe]

Even though all schools look at both MCATS, I know that some schools don't average, so would the 512 still be taken into the official LizzyM? Or just for schools that average?

I don't think many if any schools at all ONLY take into account the last MCAT score. I think in the best realistic scenario it's treated as a 520 and at worst a 517. Couple that with a low GPA and I don't think OP should apply to schools with MCAT averages over 517 unless he's got a really good reason to.

 

[LuluLovesMe]

That's a good point. I didn't explain more of my reasoning but with a 523 (even given an additional score of 517) I think yield protection is going to be an issue at lower MCAT schools and he should key off the 523 not the 517.

There are at least a few people who matriculate each year at lower MCAT schools who score 522+ on the MCAT. I'm not sure how they get their interviews if yield protection is that strict. It's more interview rationing than yield protection and OP would be worth an interview slot for them I think.

 

[GinnyWeasley]

I don't think many if any schools at all ONLY take into account the last MCAT score. I think in the best realistic scenario it's treated as a 520 and at worst a 517. Couple that with a low GPA and I don't think OP should apply to schools with MCAT averages over 517 unless he's got a really good reason to.

I know some schools average and some don't, and I'm sure all schools take all the MCATS into account. But I do know that improvement is looked upon favorably- so probably a 520ish. Just my own experience, I took the MCAT once, but the TX schools that I have interviewed at or am about to interview at are really big on only considering the last score as long as there is improvement. But that could just be because TX is GPA crazy

 

[precisiongraphic]

There are at least a few people who matriculate each year at lower MCAT schools who score 522+ on the MCAT. I'm not sure how they get their interviews if yield protection is that strict. It's more interview rationing than yield protection and OP would be worth an interview slot for them I think.

I think the "few people" that you note are probably In-state people and not OOS people as @hubbsbubbs would be. Schools don't react very logically to higher MCAT/lower gpa applicants who are also OOS. I'd still state that skewing higher is better than skewing lower with a 523 irregardless of an earlier 512.

 

[Goro]

Downward trend plus a 2x exam taker has me doubtful. I think OP , if a JR, will do better to have one more year to prove him/herself.

Wouldn't OP have a chance at some schools that love high Mcats? The ones that his sgpa is within 10% of?

 

[hubbsbubbs]

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[PossibleDOC?]

All a high MCAT means is that you're a good test taker, but even though there is an excuse (family health issues I get it, it sucks) a downward trend as the road got tougher doesn't bode well and adcoms won't like how as it got tougher you faltered. You need a year or two of grade repair to prove the health issue really was the cause and not just a lack of ability (clearly it isn't the case with a 523 but they need verification)

 

[GinnyWeasley]

Wow, thanks everyone for pitching in and trying to help me. I really appreciate it. I'll update my list to include out of state schools like Miami, Emory, Rochester, etc. and avoid the top tier schools. May still apply to Stanford (one dream I can't let go of). I was hoping to apply to no more than 10 schools, but I guess that's not smart in my position?


Senior GPA was 3.1. It was my 4.0 from fresh/soph years that kept me afloat.


I had a friend who told me that under 90%tile was uncompetitive and I stupidly didn't look into it. I also didn't know retaking was frowned upon. I'm quite new to premed life, which is one reason why I really appreciate all the advice. I learned more about applying to med school today by reading through sdn than I have passively absorbing info throughout the past year

You are soo lucky you didn't decrease your score haha

 

[hubbsbubbs]

You are soo lucky you didn't decrease your score haha

I know haha. I thought I failed walking out of that test. I memorized like 4 questions i struggled with and looked them up on my phone outside the testing center, got 3/4 wrong. Definitely a lot of luck involved with my score

 

[Goro]

Applying to Stanford will be a mere donation. They don't need it.

I know haha. I thought I failed walking out of that test. I memorized like 4 questions i struggled with and looked them up on my phone outside the testing center, got 3/4 wrong. Definitely a lot of luck involved with my score

 

[mehc012]

Applying to Stanford will be a mere donation. They don't need it.

Hey now, they've got expensive size-matched palm trees to import...