Academic Dismissal - options after?

[bssg826]

So recently quite a few students were academically dismissed from a Big 3 Caribbean school due to grades (they set the passing grade differently each semester using some algorithm and the Hofstede theory supposedly, no one really knows how they determine it). So curious to know if time is taken off to address the barriers that occurred during school/doing a post-bacc or master's program (also retaking the MCAT to achieve a high enough score for a US school) - is it necessary to report the dismissal from a Caribbean school and if so, how would this affect the chance of acceptance? Any advice on what to do to improve the chances of attending a US school?

***side note: found out I had undiagnosed anxiety and depression, which I am now receiving treatment for***

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[Caltechstud]

So recently quite a few students were academically dismissed from a Big 3 Caribbean school due to grades (they set the passing grade differently each semester using some algorithm and the Hofstede theory supposedly, no one really knows how they determine it). So curious to know if time is taken off to address the barriers that occurred during school/doing a post-bacc or master's program (also retaking the MCAT to achieve a high enough score for a US school) - is it necessary to report the dismissal from a Caribbean school and if so, how would this affect the chance of acceptance? Any advice on what to do to improve the chances of attending a US school?

***side note: found out I had undiagnosed anxiety and depression, which I am now receiving treatment for***

Dude...everyone in med school has anxiety and depression at some point......

You could not hack the material. Pretty straight forward.

 

[libertyyne]

you have to report matriculation and dissmissal , there is a prompt in amcas that requests such information. Maybe a newer DO school might take you, but it is unlikely.

 

[mistafab]

No shot bro - gotta find a new career.

 

[Med Ed]

Any advice on what to do to improve the chances of attending a US school?

My advice involves reincarnation.

 

[Psai]

Couldn't hack it in the Caribbean and want to come to the us lolll

 

[Goro]

So recently quite a few students were academically dismissed from a Big 3 Caribbean school due to grades (they set the passing grade differently each semester using some algorithm and the Hofstede theory supposedly, no one really knows how they determine it). So curious to know if time is taken off to address the barriers that occurred during school/doing a post-bacc or master's program (also retaking the MCAT to achieve a high enough score for a US school) - is it necessary to report the dismissal from a Caribbean school and if so, how would this affect the chance of acceptance? Any advice on what to do to improve the chances of attending a US school?

***side note: found out I had undiagnosed anxiety and depression, which I am now receiving treatment for***

Your career in Medicine is over.
Suggest getting an MS in some STEM field, and either:
lab tech
clinical tech
lab mgr
allied health fields
nursing
clinical trials coordinator

If your app came my way to my school's SMP, I'd be inclined to not want to steal your tuition but instead reject you, because I honestly feel you need to move on with your life.

 

[HomeSkool]

OP, you've got your answer, and I think @Goro's statement about not wanting to steal your tuition is telling: your chances of getting into a US med school at this point approach zero even if you do well in an SMP. Your career as a physician is over, but your life and happiness don't have to be. Follow Goro's advice and earn an MS that can put you in one of those clinical fields, and you can still spend your days directly (or indirectly, if you prefer) working in patient care.

 

[W19]

You might be able to get into a new DO school assuming you do well on a post bacc and get a decent MCAT score (27+)

 

[ainsky]

Gonna go against the grain here and say they would have no way of knowing... Too many people are goodie two shoes who follow the rules blindly and shoot themselves in the foot

 

[raiderette]

You can't hide past attendance. Lying about it would be cause for dismissal. Nursing?

 

[Medic741]

Gonna go against the grain here and say they would have no way of knowing... Too many people are goodie two shoes who follow the rules blindly and shoot themselves in the foot

Gonna go against the grain here and say they would have no way of knowing... Too many people are goodie two shoes who follow the rules blindly and shoot themselves in the foot

You are so wrong. Especially if this student took out federal loans.

Nursing, paramedicine, research, hospital admin etc are not bad jobs. There are a lot of allied health opportunities out there, but the doc thing just isn’t going to happen. Count your blessings though, you have your life back!!!

 

[Goro]

Gonna go against the grain here and say they would have no way of knowing... Too many people are goodie two shoes who follow the rules blindly and shoot themselves in the foot

In a profession that values honesty and transparency, you're suggesting the OP lie on an application? The OP might as well set fire to his/her computer.

 

[ainsky]

In a profession that values honesty and transparency, you're suggesting the OP lie on an application? The OP might as well set fire to his/her computer.

Youre naive if you think your students dont have skeletons in their closet.

 

[tkim]

You might be able to get into a new DO school assuming you do well on a post bacc and get a decent MCAT score (27+)

And invent a time machine to travel back to 2015 ...

 

[GypsyHummus]

.

 

[DubbiDoctor]

So recently quite a few students were academically dismissed from a Big 3 Caribbean school due to grades (they set the passing grade differently each semester using some algorithm and the Hofstede theory supposedly, no one really knows how they determine it).

They set the passing standard such that they fail a sufficient number of students to allow them to place their remaining students in clinical rotations. The Carib schools are a rotten scheme, and matriculating to one was a costly mistake for you. It could be worse, though - you could have wasted four years and over 200k in attendance costs, and failed to match. That happens to many Carib grads every year. There's no viable way for you to become a physician, so choose another career that you can see yourself being happy in. It doesn't have to be clinical: many people who fail to get into med school pursue law or business. Personally, I think pursuing a non-healthcare related field would be good for someone in your position - a fresh start where you won't be reminded of your med schools struggles.

 

[MedicineN'Jazz]

Stop the delusion that you are going to be a doctor and move on with your life before this obsession destroys you.

I’m confused. Why the harsh negativity?

 

[hardpecs]

There is /one/ more option, assuming OP is dead set on being an MD and will not take no for an answer.

Europe. We do get a lot of US students coming over here, and a relatively decent proportion do match - but you better be prepared to deal with worse tuition and support, and the needed to score higher on the Steps. I imagine if a residency program ever found out you were in a Carib program and were dismissed it wouldnt look good, but... they cant use something they dont know about against you, right?

This option has a lot of downsides, is difficult, and may even be outright impossible unless you have a relative/person willing to fund the expense for you, but it IS a card you can choose to play. Whether the card is worth the cost of playing it is your call.

 

[operaman]

The non reporting is a terrible option. Not only does it put you at risk of immediate dismissal, but your degree could even be revoked after graduation if your deception ever came to light. That’s one hell of an albatross to hang around your neck for an entire career.

I’m inclined to agree with my colleagues above that this is probably the end of your medical career. If your application were weak enough to land you in the Carib the first time, it won’t magically be any better this time. Add in a dismissal and the goose is cooked.

I’d take some time and look hard at other career paths. Medicine is a difficult, arduous journey and you were honestly still in the easiest part of it. Other professions and other careers may be a better fit with your goals.

 

[HomeSkool]

In a profession that values honesty and transparency, you're suggesting the OP lie on an application? The OP might as well set fire to his/her computer.

Don't waste your breath. That's the same clown who started this thread: Is milmed good if you want to be a lazy doctor?
:troll:

 

[Raney Schauer]

Youre naive if you think your students dont have skeletons in their closet.

Everyone's got something they'd rather not talk about but this is data that's tied to the students name and social security number and it's gonna get found, easily and quickly. What's beyond absurd and bordering on sheer stupidity is someone with a join date fresher than the milk in my fridge calling a med school adcom member/global SDN faculty adviser to all 'naïve'.

 

[atomi]

Wtf dude? I am sorry you got expelled, but how on earth do you possibly think you can get into a us med school now that you have failed out of a Caribbean one? You could go to a crappier Caribbean school but you would be setting your money on fire.

Fix the underlying issue that caused you not perform well and then move on into another profession.

 

[atomi]

you have to report matriculation and dissmissal , there is a prompt in amcas that requests such information. Maybe a newer DO school might take you, but it is unlikely.

So much wtf in this thread.
There is zero chance a do school will take him.

His only option is to somehow become a hell of a lot smarter, get a perfect score on the mcat, and lie about his past attendance. The notion of lying is actually pretty interesting since I don’t know how many Caribbean schools report to educational databases and clearing houses.

I would imagine that some of the extra shi*ty Caribbean fly by night “schools” don’t report anything to anybody and if you didn’t borrow any money to go there, I don’t know how the hell anybody would ever find out.

 

[atomi]

I don't really understand some of the responses in this thread. Is his goal to get re-accepted to a different med school, or to get through med school, succeed in med school, residency, and as an attending? Who cares if he can get into one of the new crappy DO schools?

Dude it is exactly this kind of short sighted immature trying-to-get-something-for-nothing thinking plagues American society and that lands people in the Caribbean to begin with. These people make Cs in college but somebody tells them that if they become a doctor they will be rich. So they borrow money without having any idea or concern how they will pay it back and go to “med school” on some island that barely has electricity. Now, they think, now the hard part is done. Just gotta wait for the $$$ to start rolling in.

They are totally clueless about what lies ahead in terms of

Studying all day every day for 2 years for classes. Studying nonstop for 2 months for step 1, 80 hour weeks on wards for 2 years. Step 2 and 3. Busting your ass in residency. In service exams, kissing enough ass so your attendings actually let you graduate residency, passing specialty board exams, passing oral exams only offered once a year that can have up to a 50% failure rate depending on specialty, acutally finding a job, and paying back you loans, staying current, navigating hospital politics where you are an employee like the janitor, and dealing with extortionary MOC exams and lawyers threatening to end your career at any time of the day. We’re 20+ years later at this point.

This guy somehow thinks that whatever happened was a fluke and if he can get back in then he will be successful at all the above. Totally delusional and unable to understand that getting in is NOT the hardest part and only the beginning. Sad and unfortunately very common.

But nah, I got into med school on eastern lesser windward southwest racketeer island. I’m set!

It’s disgusting that these places are allowed to advertise on SDN.

 

[libertyyne]

So much wtf in this thread.
There is zero chance a do school will take him.

His only option is to somehow become a hell of a lot smarter, get a perfect score on the mcat, and lie about his past attendance. The notion of lying is actually pretty interesting since I don’t know how many Caribbean schools report to educational databases and clearing houses.

I would imagine that some of the extra shi*ty Caribbean fly by night “schools” don’t report anything to anybody and if you didn’t borrow any money to go there, I don’t know how the hell anybody would ever find out.

You might be surprised at the admission standards of the newer DO schools got to fill those seats somehow. Thats why i also premised it with " not likely"

 

[atomi]

You might be surprised at the admission standards of the newer DO schools. Thats why i also premised it with " not likely"

Please show me a single situation where a do school took a Caribbean wash out.

Not likely? No, it’s totally f’ing impossible unless your dad donates $50 million to the endowment,

 

[Raney Schauer]

Obviously that's more grey zone.

A lawyer's "happy place" if ever there was one...

 

[libertyyne]

Please show me a single situation where a do school took a Caribbean wash out.

Not likely? No, it’s totally f’ing impossible unless your dad donates $50 million to the endowment,

Like people are going to advertise that.

 

[atomi]

Like people are going to advertise that.

So you have no evidence to back up your ridiculous claim. Got it.

 

[libertyyne]

Ya ima have to agree

Whoever said that is a friggin artard

When 40~ percent of total matriculants is comprised of less than 500 mcats, I am not holding my breath for strict quality control on behalf of new DO schools.

 

[libertyyne]

So you have no evidence to back up your ridiculous claim. Got it.

like you have evidence to back up your claim that it is impossible. Got it. I just simply said unlikely. Not impossible like you seem to be claiming. In a world where people get in with criminal records like DUI's i would never say never.

 

[Goro]

Hey @Goro

Would any American program

Ever Ever Ever Ever consider someone who has been released from a Caribbean school?

All I can say is DOA at my school.

 

[libertyyne]

Ever hear of affirmative action?

hahah 40% of the class is Affirmative action. Got it.

here is a qoute from goro from another thread.

DOA at my school, but I suspect that the newer DO programs might take a chance on you.


QUOTE="esotero, post: 16900442, member: 377680"]I was wondering what the chances would be for DO admission if I matriculated at a Caribbean school but voluntarily withdrew after one semester?

I went to Ross in the Caribbean and voluntarily withdrew after one semester (1 failing grade, rest of the grades passing), and after withdrawing I did a postbac with a 3.65 GPA and plan to take the MCAT for a second time in January (first mcat was a 27 in 2012).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[/QUOTE]

 

[atomi]

lol what ever dude. im sure people said that same to people with sub 488 mcats and yet they are matriculants at some DO school somewhere and there were 21 of them.

A sub 488 mcat still can have a decent chance at being successfully trained and this is why admissions are multifactorial. Someone who failed out of the carribean has demonstrated both an inability to get into a real med school and an inability to be trained to the bare minimum of standards.

Suggesting that it’s anything other than impossible that a carribean wash out can matriculate into a do school is total clown show mode. You either have no idea wtf you are talking about or are trolling. Probably both.

 

[Goro]

When 40~ percent of total matriculants is comprised of less than 500 mcats, I am not holding my breath for strict quality control on behalf of new DO schools.
View attachment 239294

What these data fail to show are people who made it through SMPs or postbacs. My school has a few <500 people. Several of them are at the top of their class, and all are doing well.

Y'all need to stop obsessing on single metrics. A 490 score is a risk factor like a 300 total cholesterol, not a death sentence.

You also are missing the point. A bad MCAT is NOT the same as someone failing out of a med school.

 

[libertyyne]

A sub 488 mcat still can have a decent chance at being successfully trained and this is why admissions are multifactorial. Someone who failed out of the carribean has demonstrated both an inability to get into a real med school and an inability to be trained to the bare minimum of standards.

Suggesting that it’s anything other than impossible that a carribean wash out can matriculate into a do school is total clown show mode. You either have no idea wtf you are talking about or are trolling. Probably both.

sure thing pal. You have such certainity. All i am saying that it is improbable but not impossible and somehow that is a " clown show mode" get a grip.

 

[atomi]

hahah 40% of the class is Affirmative action. Got it.

here is a qoute from goro from another thread.

[/QUOTE]

Dude failing out is not the same as voluntarily withdrawing. I had a classmate in my med school who voluntarily left the carribean after he got admitted to my us school his first year.

How are you in med school if you cannot understand that?

 

[libertyyne]

Dude failing out is not the same as voluntarily withdrawing. I had a classmate in my med school who voluntarily left the carribean after he got admitted to my us school his first year.

How are you in med school if you cannot understand that?[/QUOTE]
If you read the original post it was voluntarily withrdawing after failing .

 

[libertyyne]

"So recently quite a few students were academically dismissed from a Big 3 Caribbean school due to grades"

god I hate you

Dismissed from caribbean now what?

it is from the thread of the goro qoute which I was referencing. Might pay off to read before jumping to conclusions.

What did god do?

 

[gyngyn]

A civil discussion, please.

 

[Goro]

hahah 40% of the class is Affirmative action. Got it.

here is a qoute from goro from another thread.

[/QUOTE]
And, as usual, context is everything. Withdrawing is vastly different from failing out. My school has accepted people who left the Carib due too health reasons, entered and aced our SMP and then aced the COM program as well.

Stop thinking in such black and white terms.

 

[libertyyne]

And, as usual, context is everything. Withdrawing is vastly different from failing out. My school has accepted people who left the Carib due too health reasons, entered and aced our SMP and then aced the COM program as well.

Stop thinking in such black and white terms.[/QUOTE]
I am not disagreeing with you. I also think this guys chances of a US acceptance are that of winning the lottery. Somehow my use of the word improbable is offensive to posters who believe it is impossible. I merely said that it was possible but not probable of gaining an acceptance to a newer DO school. That is far from black and white thinking on my part. Furthermore, there are many Caribbean schools that allow people who fail out to "decelerate or withdraw" prior to it being official. Just to show why I dislike the use of impossible, Barack Obama and Donald Trump becoming president was also called impossible at some point or the other and yet here we are.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Would this student have a chance if they did a SMP with guaranteed acceptance, like VCOM and the like?

Seems like the advice is super harsh here, Im surprised.

And, as usual, context is everything. Withdrawing is vastly different from failing out. My school has accepted people who left the Carib due too health reasons, entered and aced our SMP and then aced the COM program as well.

Stop thinking in such black and white terms.

 

[Med Ed]

I am not disagreeing with you. I also think this guys chances of a US acceptance are that of winning the lottery. Somehow my use of the word improbable is offensive to posters who believe it is impossible.

What you are detecting is PTSD from those of us who do student advising. People in dire straits hear what they want to hear, and phrases like "improbable but not impossible" only foment further bad decisions.

 

[libertyyne]

What you are detecting is PTSD from those of us who do student advising. People in dire straits hear what they want to hear, and phrases like "improbable but not impossible" only foment further bad decisions.

fair enough. I feel like these applicants are not going to be taking impossible to heart either. But I can empathize with the frustration of people who do this regularly.

 

[UnoMas]

Would this student have a chance if they did a SMP with guaranteed acceptance, like VCOM and the like?

Seems like the advice is super harsh here, Im surprised.

If only they got accepted into the SMP in the first place; with a dumpster fire of an academic record like that, I say it's very very highly unlikely. If you couldn't hack it on the islands, I don't see how it's any different now. Whatever it was that caused their application to be Carrib-bound in the first place is still there, that's why they are flunking out of Carrib medical school. And he tries to blame it on depression and anxiety. It's not his ability to get into medical school or an SMP that we are questioning, it's his ability to get through it. OP had his chance, he blew it. It's time to move on.

 

[bssg826]

Appreciate the blunt honesty.

It seems like there was an assumption to immediately go back and try for US schools.
But that is not the case, I meant taking a few years to improve mental health and doing well in a Master's program (or SMP if possible), including retaking the MCAT and improving my application. Med schools wouldn't care for that then?

 

[Goro]

Appreciate the blunt honesty.

It seems like there was an assumption to immediately go back and try for US schools.
But that is not the case, I meant taking a few years to improve mental health and doing well in a Master's program (or SMP if possible), including retaking the MCAT and improving my application. Med schools wouldn't care for that then?

This scenario seems plausible.

 

[libertyyne]

Appreciate the blunt honesty.

It seems like there was an assumption to immediately go back and try for US schools.
But that is not the case, I meant taking a few years to improve mental health and doing well in a Master's program (or SMP if possible), including retaking the MCAT and improving my application. Med schools wouldn't care for that then?

Think about why you wanted to become a doctor. Look at some other careers and see how they can fill that need. The reality is that you may spend 100s of thousands of dollars and countless years chasing this without the certainty of being able to become a doctor at the end of the day. You could apply to SMPs that guarantee admission after successfully completing the program. But I would take some time off right now and do some soul searching and understand the reason why this is important and see if there is another pathway to meet that need. You need to get better, and fix what went wrong in the first place, with undergrad, mcat, and now carrib.