Addressing PE

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ritts said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding is that they won't require the PE for licensure for class of 2021. Who know's what will happen for class of 2020 but hopefully people push to eliminate the PE for good
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I'm talking about the ones where Level 3 is required and you can't take Step 3 instead.
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Jackaleauxpe said:
I'm talking about the ones where Level 3 is required and you can't take Step 3 instead.
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According to the Sheriff of Sodium:
All states except for CA, FL, MI, PA, and WV allow DOs to receive a medical license by completing the USMLE series
 
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Jackaleauxpe said:
I'm talking about the ones where Level 3 is required and you can't take Step 3 instead.
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Right, but pathway 2 states that class of 2021 doesn’t need the level 2-PE to sit for level 3
 
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TXKnight said:
What are you asking exactly? Do you know how medical licensure works?
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He wants to take step 3 even though PE got removed for ys to stick it to the NBOME and help accelerate their demise. Part of that is lobbying the few weird states left that could pigeon-hole students into taking comlex no matter what. If people have a choice then it will be easier to achieve this goal.
 
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Got my PE refund today. I had a voucher from last summer. This happened within hours of getting my stimulus money. This will help with getting the house ready to sell and the cost of moving.
 
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Tragal Pointer said:
Nothing about PE. They said they are going to create a way for PDs to convert the percentiles on the new P/F COMLEX into numerical scores.
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Are any minutes from the meeting available or anything official they have posted about this?
 
so where is everyone without the PE (who took both usmle and comlex 2) at for the class of 2021? Can’t decide if I’m going to take Step 3 or Level 3
 
Roxas said:
Do you have an option? I assumed for licensing purposes all DOs must take level 3
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Not if you are doing residency in a state that accepts USMLE for DO licensure.
 
km93 said:
so where is everyone without the PE (who took both usmle and comlex 2) at for the class of 2021? Can’t decide if I’m going to take Step 3 or Level 3
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I’m still trying to figure that out. My residency is in a state where I could just do step 3. But my home state which I might return to (but also might not) is in a comlex-requiring state.
 
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sunshinefl said:
I’m still trying to figure that out. My residency is in a state where I could just do step 3. But my home state which I might return to (but also might not) is in a comlex-requiring state.
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same
 
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sunshinefl said:
I’m still trying to figure that out. My residency is in a state where I could just do step 3. But my home state which I might return to (but also might not) is in a comlex-requiring state.
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I'd take comlex level 3 and be done with it. The only reason people wanted to take step 3 was because they were scared PE was going to come back while they are in residency. With the new pathways to take level 3 without worrying about PE, I don't see why a DO would only take step 3 and limit themselves geographically. You never know what the future will bring. An awesome opportunity might open for you in one of those states that require level 3, and what do you do then with only step 3 on your record.
 
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DrStephenStrange said:
I'd take comlex level 3 and be done with it. The only reason people wanted to take step 3 was because they were scared PE was going to come back while they are in residency. With the new pathways to take level 3 without worrying about PE, I don't see why a DO would only take step 3 and limit themselves geographically. You never know what the future will bring. An awesome opportunity might open for you in one of those states that require level 3, and what do you do then with only step 3 on your record.
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I agree with this^. I was going to take step 3 and tell the nbome to stuff it, but unless I’m fortunate to match a fellowship instate there’s a chance I’d be oh so screwed matching somewhere that requires comlex. Not worth the potential massive headache imo
 
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RamsFan&FutureDO said:
I agree with this^. I was going to take step 3 and tell the nbome to stuff it, but unless I’m fortunate to match a fellowship instate there’s a chance I’d be oh so screwed matching somewhere that requires comlex. Not worth the potential massive headache imo
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What are those potential states again? I know Michigan, Cali (I think) but I forget the rest
 
Chibucks15 said:
What are those potential states again? I know Michigan, Cali (I think) but I forget the rest
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stolen from Most States Don’t Actually Require COMLEX Exams | Ben White
  • Only Florida actually specifically demands a full suite of COMLEX scores.
  • 5 more states (CA, MI, OK, WV, and PA) are more complicated. These often have requirements that are clearly in need of an update (such as permitting the substitution of the defunct FLEX exam for older doctors but with no mention of USMLE). MI, OK, and WV may give reciprocity (i.e. get licensed in one of the usual 44 and you may be able to transfer). Pennsylvania also requires a dedicated OMT exam if you haven’t passed Level 2-PE. The language here sometimes says “similar” requirements and sometimes says “equal requirements.” I have no idea what constitutes what here, but certainly wanting to work in these states would be a reason to finish the COMLEX series for now.
 
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RamsFan&FutureDO said:
I agree with this^. I was going to take step 3 and tell the nbome to stuff it, but unless I’m fortunate to match a fellowship instate there’s a chance I’d be oh so screwed matching somewhere that requires comlex. Not worth the potential massive headache imo
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So my question is now, will
We be at a disadvantage when it comes to fellowship applications if we only have level 3 and not step 3?
 
hawthorn9797 said:
So my question is now, will
We be at a disadvantage when it comes to fellowship applications if we only have level 3 and not step 3?
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It's not going to make any significant difference. Step/Level 1 and 2 carry more weight and 3 is largely viewed as pass or fail.
 
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hawthorn9797 said:
So my question is now, will
We be at a disadvantage when it comes to fellowship applications if we only have level 3 and not step 3?
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It has never been a problem in the past from what I have seen. DO students usually only take step 1 and step 2CK,. Very few ever took step 2CS and step 3, and they still did fine during fellowship applications. I think for fellowship, it matters where you do your residency more than anything else (especially in IM)
 
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hawthorn9797 said:
So my question is now, will
We be at a disadvantage when it comes to fellowship applications if we only have level 3 and not step 3?
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Hmm didn’t think about this. Honestly at least in my field fellowships seem to care far more about your in service boards (which makes complete sense) than how you scored as a med student so I’ll probably just take comlex
 
So I got a letter from the dean today attesting that I've "achieved competency in the demonstration of the fundamental osteopathic clinical skills" and have graduated from my school.....the letter said to keep it as I'll have to submit it to the NBOME to take COMLEX Level 3.

-so at least no last minute virtual PE for me!
 
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They're really gonna keep us waiting till April 30th huh....
 
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My school emailed us a couple weeks ago about a "required skills event" that we will be doing just before match week next year. It sounds like what the 4th years had to do this year in place of PE so perhaps they'll be defaulting to the schools from here on out.
 
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GoCards05 said:
My school emailed us a couple weeks ago about a "required skills event" that we will be doing just before match week next year. It sounds like what the 4th years had to do this year in place of PE so perhaps they'll be defaulting to the schools from here on out.
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I know you'll be stressed out about whether you're going to match that week, but honestly if they're going to make you do something mandatory, it's better they do it then than during interview season. Hopefully it's a quick formality that you can put minimal effort into and still pass.
 
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A school I know of is trying to have their students come back to campus during the first couple rotations of fourth year (AKA auditions) to do a 1 day OSCE (basically in lieu of PE). They announced this yesterday and said that we can use the money we are saving on canceled PE for travel/lodging back to campus.
 
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Scrubb said:
A school I know of is trying to have their students come back to campus during the first couple rotations of fourth year (AKA auditions) to do a 1 day OSCE (basically in lieu of PE). They announced this yesterday and said that we can use the money we are saving on canceled PE for travel/lodging back to campus.
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That would piss me off to no end.
 
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Scrubb said:
A school I know of is trying to have their students come back to campus during the first couple rotations of fourth year (AKA auditions) to do a 1 day OSCE (basically in lieu of PE). They announced this yesterday and said that we can use the money we are saving on canceled PE for travel/lodging back to campus.
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Do some schools not have OSCEs throughout the first two year of medical school, in which you must pass and be marked competent? Does admin think your clinical skills will suddenly diminish after a full year... of seeing real patients in a clinic and hospital setting?
 
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lancefielder said:
Do some schools not have OSCEs throughout the first two year of medical school, in which you must pass and be marked competent? Does admin think your clinical skills will suddenly diminish after a full year... of seeing real patients in a clinic and hospital
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yes
 
I really hope they get rid of PE for good..
 
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lancefielder said:
Do you just get thrown into the clinical environment without any preparation? I'm genuinely curious.
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not my school, but I've met medical students who had very little examination of clinical skills. They were theoretically taught them but never had to display competence, and they didn't start learning them until their second year
 
lancefielder said:
Do some schools not have OSCEs throughout the first two year of medical school, in which you must pass and be marked competent? Does admin think your clinical skills will suddenly diminish after a full year... of seeing real patients in a clinic and hospital setting?
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The school that is doing this has OSCEs all of first two years. They just think students need more BS evaluations where you gotta get 70% on every single little component to pass.
 
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Screenshot (2296).png





So are we officially good to move on without PE?
 
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DrStephenStrange said:
View attachment 335825




So are we officially good to move on without PE?
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Sounds like it. My school is having us do a skills lab next spring where we have to do basic procedures expected of an intern as well as some standardized patient H&Ps. I’m just happy we don’t have to pay $1300 for it. This seems like the best possible scenario for us.
 
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I hope that they will eventually replace the PE exam with skills exam at your respective school. Please everyone help future DO students to make this happen.

If they do not replace or cancel the exam, then I am just going to take Step series to get my license without taking Comlex level 3.
 
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Can someone break this down as to what this *might* mean for Class of 2023 and beyond, I'm not entirely clear. Are they saying that PE is gone and will be replaced with something else i.e. COMLEX PE is cancelled forever, or the exam might be revived?
 
DO_or_Die said:
Can someone break this down as to what this *might* mean for Class of 2023 and beyond, I'm not entirely clear. Are they saying that PE is gone and will be replaced with something else i.e. COMLEX PE is cancelled forever, or the exam might be revived?
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I think they kept it vague on purpose. Likely won't know the answer to this until their focus group (or whatever they call it) decides on something. Sounds like they might keep it as OSCEs done at schools or they might do a PE that is totally virtual.
 
PE is deaddddddd. I almost cried when I got the email.
 
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penpineappleapplepen said:
I hope that they will eventually replace the PE exam with skills exam at your respective school. Please everyone help future DO students to make this happen.

If they do not replace or cancel the exam, then I am just going to take Step series to get my license without taking Comlex level 3.
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Isn’t this already what schools do? Literally yesterday, we had an OMM competency exam covering everything from first year. In other words, the NBOME just needs to accept that kind of stuff as a substitute for PE
 
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Bumping this thread.

Has anyone graduated yet? When you graduate, your dean is supposed to endorse you to the NBOME saying you are fit to progress without PE and this unlocks your ability to progress to another step. If yes to above, has your portal on the NBOME site changed to allow you to type in your residency PD so they may endorse you as well so you can finally register?

I'm trying to register and get this test done very early in my TY but I need to know if I can even register for a date during a chill elective I have sooner than later.

Let me know if anyone makes progress here as graduations start rolling in for different schools.
 
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Neopolymath said:
Bumping this thread.

Has anyone graduated yet? When you graduate, your dean is supposed to endorse you to the NBOME saying you are fit to progress without PE and this unlocks your ability to progress to another step. If yes to above, has your portal on the NBOME site changed to allow you to type in your residency PD so they may endorse you as well so you can finally register?

I'm trying to register and get this test done very early in my TY but I need to know if I can even register for a date during a chill elective I have sooner than later.

Let me know if anyone makes progress here as graduations start rolling in for different schools.
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my school at the time that passed made it sound like it was something they would do "later" when you actually applied for level 3. So I don't know if that's true, what's supposed to happen first, or if they're confused, or if they're right and NBOME made it a dumb process where we have to count on our schools again later after we graduated.

I officially graduated (but degree isn't awarded by the parent university until the end of the month, but I have confirmation that I completed all the requirements just waiting for that routine process) and nothing is different on my NBOME. No special box or note. And no level 3 eligibility. But again I don't know the process of what comes first. However, I cannot do anything to register for Level 3, including purchasing it.
 
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